Gamexplain Explains the Joy-Con Desyncing Problem

Alright.

So, I think there might be a signal and a hardware issue.

My Joy-Cons are usable in a direct line of sight to my maximum available space (16 ft). I also didn't get any issues with covering the Joy-Con or putting it behind my back until around 10 feet. Tried putting a chair in front, no problems.

If I could move my router, I'd test other signal interference, but right now that's not possible.

If it was purely signal, I'd probably have the same drop off as others. Perhaps I haven't run into the issue because I lucked out.
 
EloquentM said:
Explain please
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Too many people had their hands on this for it to NEVER be an issue before. I might be ignorant, but too many people used these for it to be such a simple design flaw. I don't believe that the press did something drastically different than anyone who went to a hands-on event.

The fact a couple have already said NoA said a fix will be there before launch means something in a recent FW or software tweak caused this.
 
boiled goose said:
This sounds bad. Sorry to day 1 buyers... Could be a mess for Nintendo.
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honestly this is a potentially big issue but it's really no sweat off my back

it's either going to be fixed with a software update or Nintendo will replace my joy cons

could be a mess for Nintendo, minor inconvenience for me worst case
 
MHWilliams said:
Alright.

So, I think there might be a signal and a hardware issue.

My Joy-Cons are usable in a direct line of sight to my maximum available space (16 ft). I also didn't get any issues with covering the Joy-Con or putting it behind my back until around 10 feet. Tried putting a chair in front, no problems.

If I could move my router, I'd test other signal interference, but right now that's not possible.

If it was purely signal, I'd probably have the same drop off as others. Perhaps I haven't run into the issue because I lucked out.
Click to expand...
Well, uh, at least many Joycons won't have the issue?
 
MHWilliams said:
Alright.

So, I think there might be a signal and a hardware issue.

My Joy-Cons are usable in a direct line of sight to my maximum available space (16 ft). I also didn't get any issues with covering the Joy-Con or putting it behind my back until around 10 feet. Tried putting a chair in front, no problems.

If I could move my router, I'd test other signal interference, but right now that's not possible.

If it was purely signal, I'd probably have the same drop off as others. Perhaps I haven't run into the issue because I lucked out.
Click to expand...

Are you saying your router is not close by? If that's the case could be other people's experiences are being worsened due to other signal interference they may have going on.
 
Vena said:
Any idea if this is a brand new issue? Wondering if it's not a firmware bug in final units or somesuch.
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That's the most logical explanation. Someone in the other thread suggested the joycons could go into Bluetooth low-power mode when attached to the system to conservative power (remember, it still uses Bluetooth then to connect) and then aren't boosting power when detached.

Hard to believe nobody at Nintendo in Japan, NOA, NOE, Nvidia, Mario Club, and all the third parties/indies with dev kits would notice this. That's not logical. I'm sure they also tested this setup at the preview events worldwide.

I suppose it also could be some hardware defect/design flaw in the final joycons that isn't present in the dev kits/prototype hardware,but that's less likely.

The wireless range is something they've tested in the past since the Wavebird days. So I assume that would be part of their testing procedure.
 
ViolentP said:
Likely. It'll probably come at a slight cost in battery life but considering the reported 3-hour battery life, I think it's a fair sacrifice to make.
Click to expand...

What? Its the controller broadcasting the signal. If they sacrifice some of the already awesome 20 hours of battery life, no biggey
 
MHWilliams said:
Alright.

So, I think there might be a signal and a hardware issue.

My Joy-Cons are usable in a direct line of sight to my maximum available space (16 ft). I also didn't get any issues with covering the Joy-Con or putting it behind my back until around 10 feet. Tried putting a chair in front, no problems.

If I could move my router, I'd test other signal interference, but right now that's not possible.

If it was purely signal, I'd probably have the same drop off as others. Perhaps I haven't run into the issue because I lucked out.
Click to expand...

Damn, the problem being hardware-related is the worst case scenario.

Ands it's starting to look more and more likely.
 
MHWilliams said:
Alright.

So, I think there might be a signal and a hardware issue.

My Joy-Cons are usable in a direct line of sight to my maximum available space (16 ft). I also didn't get any issues with covering the Joy-Con or putting it behind my back until around 10 feet. Tried putting a chair in front, no problems.

If I could move my router, I'd test other signal interference, but right now that's not possible.

If it was purely signal, I'd probably have the same drop off as others. Perhaps I haven't run into the issue because I lucked out.
Click to expand...

This...is reasonable right? Like pretty normal?

Either way if the problems people are having is hardware related that kinda sucks. Hopefully there's something they can do software wise.
 
TheFuzz said:
Too many people had their hands on this for it to NEVER be an issue before. I might be ignorant, but too many people used these for it to be such a simple design flaw. I don't believe that the press did something drastically different than anyone who went to a hands-on event.

The fact a couple have already said NoA said a fix will be there before launch means something in a recent FW or software tweak caused this.
Click to expand...

The press played it much closer to the tv/switch system than the people playing from the comfort of their own couch.
 
It'd be really funny if this gets fixed by launch with a firmware update and tons of people canceled their pre-orders for nothing. At least wait until next week and see if Nintendo issues a statement.

There is absolutely no reason to cancel this far out. Instead of getting swept up in the mob mentality, wait and see. It's not like you can't cancel your pre-order NEXT WEEK. I just don't understand the stampede to cancel them today. It's not like Nintendo is going to force you to accept a faulty product if they don't fix it by launch, but if you cancel now and they do end up fixing it, your chances of getting a launch unit is pretty slim.
 
thefro said:
That's the most logical explanation. Someone in the other thread suggested the joycons go into Bluetooth low-power mode when attached to the system to conservative power (remember, it still uses Bluetooth then to connect) and then aren't boosting power when detached.

Hard to believe nobody at Nintendo in Japan, NOA, NOE, Nvidia, Mario Club, and all the third parties/indies with dev kits would notice this. That's not logical. I'm sure they also tested this setup at the preview events worldwide.

I suppose it also could be some hardware defect in the final joycons that isn't present in the dev kits/prototype hardware,but that's less likely.

The range is something they've tested in the past since the Wavebird days.
Click to expand...
source? Pls don't say it's a gaffer
 
honestly it just seems like a choice they made to keep the battery on the controllers to run as long as possible they can boost the signal of the antenna so it passes through solid objects.

but whats the point of having the radios run at a boosted signal when 99% of the time they won't be obstructed.
 
Enduin said:
Are you saying your router is not close by? If that's the case could be other people's experiences are being worsened due to other signal interference they may have going on.
Click to expand...

My router is behind where the Switch is, so it's never in-between the Switch and myself. It's also a few feet away, so signal interference isn't a problem.

I was saying I could move my router closer to the Switch to see if that's part of the problem.
 
FlyingWasabi said:
It'd be really funny if this gets fixed by launch with a firmware update and tons of people canceled their pre-orders for nothing. At least wait until next week and see if Nintendo issues a statement.

There is absolutely no reason to cancel this far out. Instead of getting swept up in the mob mentality, wait and see. It's not like you can't cancel your pre-order NEXT WEEK. I just don't understand the stampede to cancel them today. It's not like Nintendo is going to force you to accept a faulty product if they don't fix it by launch, but if you cancel now and they do end up fixing it, your chances of getting a launch unit is pretty slim.
Click to expand...

It'd be really funny if it's not fixed by launch because Nintendo. You can't blame people for being skeptical.
 
Dremorak said:
What? Its the controller broadcasting the signal. If they sacrifice some of the already awesome 20 hours of battery life, no biggey
Click to expand...

That is my guess but I cannot be certain. That said, if something had to be sacrificed slightly, I would gladly choose the 20 hour battery life.
 
carlsojo said:
It'd be really funny if it's not fixed by launch because Nintendo. You can't blame people for being skeptical.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that people shouldn't be skeptical, I said that there is no advantage to canceling today, besides a knee-jerk reaction. It's a lot smarter to wait and see, and cancel next week if nothing gets fixed. It's not like Nintendo keeps your money if you cancel it a few days later than today.
 
MHWilliams said:
My router is behind where the Switch is, so it's never in-between the Switch and myself. It's also a few feet away, so signal interference isn't a problem.

I was saying I could move my router closer to the Switch to see if that's part of the problem.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong, but you haven't had any interference issues right? Did you try what Gameexplain tried?
 
Gamexplain Video actually put my mind at ease a bit. Good video.


For most games I don't see this as a big issue, because I won't cover the sensor... but for ARMS this could mess everything up. Come on Nintendo.
 
WordsintheWater said:
Yeah, even if he was I am still wary of anything that person says about this situation. It's kind of weird that someone is telling him something and journalist who are asking are getting no information.
Click to expand...

I doubt Nintendo would go on the record with confirming a fix until they are 100% certain about it though. Might still be testing internally.
 
serenewarfare said:
That makes no sense. You are grading them on a scale that doesn't exist. What could they have done to make the battery life better that doesn't involve inventing new battery technology?
Click to expand...

A. Spec the hardware accordingly. Would be less appealing as a console, but more appealing in the handheld market.
B. Increase the size of the battery. Would be less appealing as a handheld.

Nintendo has decided to prioritize power instead of expanding the functionality and portability of the portable aspect of the switch.

While the battery technology may not exist to increase the battery life, my assessment is based solely on the practicality and functionality of the product. If it's the best they could do and I don't think it's functional, then it's not functional, the technology just isn't there yet. That's a saying for a reason.
 
MHWilliams said:
Alright.

So, I think there might be a signal and a hardware issue.

My Joy-Cons are usable in a direct line of sight to my maximum available space (16 ft). I also didn't get any issues with covering the Joy-Con or putting it behind my back until around 10 feet. Tried putting a chair in front, no problems.

If I could move my router, I'd test other signal interference, but right now that's not possible.

If it was purely signal, I'd probably have the same drop off as others. Perhaps I haven't run into the issue because I lucked out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for looking into this again!

So it worked perfectly up to 16 feet? That's quite a distance!

But yeah, if this is going to be a joy con lottery I really need to know for sure what amazon or Nintendo policy on returns is going to be with this type of issue.
 
Maybe a finger in the wrong position could block the signal for a split second, thus causing the "loss of sync" effect. For me, it's obvious that no one will play with two hands on one JoyCon like in the video (of course he did that to demonstrate the problem), so I don't think it's that much of an issue.

However, if the signal can't be boosted by a firmware update, Nintendo will have to make a revision right away. Remember, guys, things like that have happened to other electrical machines, including Iphones (your hand could block the signal if it was right above the place where the antenna was). I'm not saying that's not Nintendo's fault, but it certainly isn't new.

EDIT:

brochiller said:
Stealth has said that NoA told him a fix will be coming before launch.

https://twitter.com/Stealth___/status/834920412052078594
Click to expand...
That's awesome news.
 
Speculation time:

When the joycons are docked they are set to a minimum level of transmit power. They still connect to the console via BT when in this configuration, and there's no point wasting Joycon battery juice in portable mode by having the transmit power constantly set to maximum.

They are SUPPOSED to increase in transmission power when they are not currently docked, but let's say there is a bug that is triggered by something entirely random and reproducible that wouldn't necessarily be noticed 100% of the time in QA.

My line of work involves diagnosing and investigating software / hardware faults and I often have 'hunches' that I base on nothing and very often end up being vindicated -- I'm having one of those hunches now.
 
Minishdriveby said:
A. Spec the hardware accordingly. Would be less appealing as a console, but more appealing in the handheld market.
B. Increase the size of the battery. Would be less appealing as a handheld.

Nintendo has decided to prioritize power instead of expanding the functionality and portability of the portable aspect of the switch.
Click to expand...

No matter what they did, even if one of your options, they would have people complaining. Either it's not portable enough, or it's even more underpowered.

So what you are saying is that it's a no-win situation for them. In which case I think it's not unreasonable to not blame them for picking a middle ground solution and trying to make the best of it.
 
Spinifex said:
Speculation time:

When the joycons are docked they are set to a minimum level of transmit power. They still connect to the console via BT when in this configuration, and there's no point wasting Joycon battery juice in portable mode by having the transmit power constantly set to maximum.

They are SUPPOSED to increase in transmission power when they are not currently docked, but let's say there is a bug that is triggered by something entirely random and reproducible that wouldn't necessarily be noticed 100% of the time in QA.

My line of work involves diagnosing and investigating software / hardware faults and I often have 'hunches' that I base on nothing and very often end up being vindicated -- I'm having one of those hunches now.
Click to expand...

Look at the post directly below yours.

Your hunch is wrong.
 
Yikes. so there is still a hardware tradeoff to fix this and sacrifice more battery? :/

damn. if its really bothersome i'm going to sell mine and wait for a the next iteration

edit: there we go fix in progress
 
Skiesofwonder said:
Look at the post directly below yours.

Your hunch is wrong.
Click to expand...

What happens to the BT radio in docked mode, is what I'm getting at. I'm suggesting that there may be a sequence of events that causes a bug in transmission power. If the left Joycon is docked before the right one, or something silly like that.
 
serenewarfare said:
No matter what they did, even if one of your options, they would have people complaining. Either it's not portable enough, or it's even more underpowered.

So what you are saying is that it's a no-win situation for them. In which case I think it's not unreasonable to not blame them for picking a middle ground solution and trying to make the best of it.
Click to expand...

Sure maybe they decided that this was the compromise they were willing to make to achieve the power they wanted to get out of the machine, but this doesn't invalidate people's complaint about the battery life and its effect of the functional portability of the system. So while the battery technology may not exist to increase the battery life, my assessment is based solely on the practicality and functionality of the product. If it's the best they could do and I don't think it's functional, then it's not functional, the technology just isn't there yet. That's a saying for a reason.

Anyway there is a whole thread on the battery life of this system. I didn't mean to hijack this thread with that discussion. It just irks me that the retort to complaints of the battery life is that "battery technology is crap so don't complain".
 
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