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[jarrod]

"The GameCube version doesn't sell!"

In a recent email Q&A on his website, game designer Akira Sakuma tackled the question of third parties on the GameCube in a rare (for Japan) public spouting of opinion:

Q: I saw that the homepage for Momotaro Dentetsu USA is open.
Looking closely I saw the words... "PlayStation 2"

............(pause)............

There's no GC version...?
That's hard to take as a GC fan, but I'm still going to buy it regardless.
I don't think the GC has any issues as a console besides lack of disc space, but did you run into problems with that...?

Sakuma: I like the GameCube too; it's got better sound and disc response. But just like all the other publishers learned the hard way, the GameCube version just doesn't sell! The company can't put out something that doesn't sell. We could do it if the GameCube version sold at least 100,000 copies, but as it is now, I just can't do anything about it! I'd put Hudson in danger if I made them put it out without any expectation of making money!

Momotaro Dentetsu USA, latest in Hudson's series of party games, is due out later this year in Japan. The previous two versions (if memory serves me right) were released both on PS2 and GC. An Xbox port is right out, apparently

http://www.video-fenky.com/

Hmmm, things sound a little desperate. The upcoming JP GC releases seem somewhat solid though...

-Biohazard 4 (Capcom)
-Digimon Battle Chronicle (Bandai)
-Home Land (ChunSoft)
-Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 11 Chou Ketteiban (Konami)
-Killer 7 (Capcom)
-Konjiki no Gashbell: Yujoh Tag Battle (Bandai)
-RockMan X Command Mission (Capcom)
-Shinseiki GPX Cyber Formula: Road To The Infinity (Konami)
-StarCraft: Ghost (Capcom)
-Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: Battle Nexus (Konami)
-Viewtiful Joe 2 (Capcom)
-Virtua Fighter Cyber Generation: Judgment Six no Yabou (Sega)
-Zoids Versus III (Tomy)

...still, there's a noticable drop in support from everyone besides Capcom it seems. Strong JP support has been GC's biggest asset so far imo, I wonder how 2005 will look? NCL should be approaching Capcom, Namco, Konami, Hudson, Bandai & Sega in particular to try and maintain support I think...

 

[Grubdog]

Biohazard 4 will outsell every other game you listed combined. I smell a lot of bombs there.

I love you to Capcom.

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah, I think they'd benefit by trying to solidify a Tales of Legendia/Symphonia II release, and some other franchise stuff from Namco. Konami is a big key there. Nintendo would do well to get a sports game on the system by Konami (ICHIRO BASEBALL, NINTENDO!?), as well as try for other franchises/spinoffs which could help both parties involved.

I still think Nintendo should be trying to form with Sonic team on some sort of uber crossover platformer with Mario and Sonic. I'm pretty sure it'd be something a lot of people have been waiting for for a very long time (I have for about 10 years or earlier).

 

[jarrod]

Nintendo should also be pushing Tomy/Eighting for Naruto 3.

 

[Hero]

Yeah, I think they'd benefit by trying to solidify a Tales of Legendia/Symphonia II release, and some other franchise stuff from Namco. Konami is a big key there. Nintendo would do well to get a sports game on the system by Konami (ICHIRO BASEBALL, NINTENDO!?), as well as try for other franchises/spinoffs which could help both parties involved.

I still think Nintendo should be trying to form with Sonic team on some sort of uber crossover platformer with Mario and Sonic. I'm pretty sure it'd be something a lot of people have been waiting for for a very long time (I have for about 10 years or earlier).

I think a Mario x Sonic crossover game could be a groundbreaking achievement in terms of gameplay and sales.

Arguably two of the hottest characters in video game history whose new games still continue to push high numbers together might do something which neither one of them could do alone. I've had countless friends and random people in my dorm look at the Sega logo pop up right before the Licensed by Nintendo part and saying 'I'd never thought I'd see the day.'

It just seems so right.

 

[cvxfreak]

I don't remember the 2002 Momotaro bombing although the 2003 edition definitely didn't perform up to par. I think Hudson also got a little scarred at DreamMix TV, so they've withdrawn Namida and Momotaro USA.

 

[nubbe]

Bah, Nintendo should just buy Capcom

They have enough franchises to entice the older audience and boost the younger.

Then poop on everyone else who cry about sales

 

[jarrod]

It's a real shame Nintendo lost Tengai Makyo III: Namida, they should really push to get it back. Especially since Konami's rumored to be releasing it in the US. Bloody Roar Extreme 2 would be another good game to bug Hudson over, Primal Fury did exceedingly well over here.

 

[AniHawk]

I think a Mario x Sonic crossover game could be a groundbreaking achievement in terms of gameplay and sales.

Arguably two of the hottest characters in video game history whose new games still continue to push high numbers together might do something which neither one of them could do alone. I've had countless friends and random people in my dorm look at the Sega logo pop up right before the Licensed by Nintendo part and saying 'I'd never thought I'd see the day.'

It just seems so right.

Maybe Revolution. I know it'd be something I'd go for if I was in charge.

 

[AniHawk]

It's a real shame Nintendo lost Tengai Makyo III: Namida, they should really push to get it back. Especially since Konami's rumored to be releasing it in the US. Bloody Roar Extreme 2 would be another good game to bug Hudson over, Primal Fury did exceedingly well over here.

Primal Fury did 100k-130k though..

 

[SolidSnakex]

Like I said in the sales thread, Nintendo's going to need a huge overhaul if they expect to stand up to the competition next gen. Yah they can still make money just by selling off their own games but they have chance at all of becoming #1 by doing that. They had good support with the GC at the start and now it's basically going down the line the N64 did.

 

[AniHawk]

Well they're SUPPOSEDLY talking with devs (eastern and western) about what they'd like to see next gen (which reminds me a lot of what happened during Project Dolphin- though I'd argue that the GC's situation has significantly improved upon the N64's, but Nintendo as a whole is looking worse than it did in the N64's era).

 

[cvxfreak]

Bloody Roar Extreme 2 would be a port of Bloody Roar 4 basically which bombed. Extreme's sales were over 3's which was surprising. I think Nintendo can live without Namida but they should at least make the stride to get it back.

 

[jarrod]

Like I said in the sales thread, Nintendo's going to need a huge overhaul if they expect to stand up to the competition next gen. Yah they can still make money just by selling off their own games but they have chance at all of becoming #1 by doing that. They had good support with the GC at the start and now it's basically going down the line the N64 did.

Er, even at this stage GC has far better 3rd party support than N64 ever did. The problem here is Nintendo needing to create a viable market for 3rd party games. 3rd parties actually want Nintendo to succeed nowadays, if Nintendo could just provide a halfway healthy GC market, they'd leap aboard. Forget nonsense about huge overhauls, going for number one and direct competition (that's a surefire way for Nintendo to end up like Sega), just do what Sakuma wants, all they need is 100k sold for a GC port. Make that hungry niche market, like Saturn and PC Engine enjoyed.

 

[etiolate]

Does he just mean Japan or worldwide? Namco and Sega have done well on Gamecube and Capcom has had some success with Resident Evil and VJ. Harvest Moon is doing quite well also, but this is all mostly due to American releases except for the Namco titles.

It's really the western third parties that have troubles on Gamecube.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, all Nintendo needs to hope for is a sleek design for the Revolution, a nice advertising campaign, and advertise it as a different type of cool.

As it stands:

PS2, GBA SP: Plain cool
Xbox: Hardcore
GC: Wannabe cool

I don't think it's the games, they definitely had the support, what Nintendo needs to change is its image, but it can't mimic Sony or MS. For example, instead of going into E3 with the, "Hee hee, we're SPECIAL!" feel (2003), they go in with the rebellious, "FUCK YOU" (2004) feel, then they should do fine on a mass market. They just need to turn that, "we do things different" stigma into something positive they can market.

Just my theory anyway.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Er, even at this stage GC has far better 3rd party support than N64 ever did. The problem here is Nintendo needing to create a viable market for 3rd party games. 3rd parties actually want Nintendo to succeed nowadays, if Nintendo could just provide a halfway healthy GC market, they'd leap aboard.

Well then they've done a terrible job with this as interest in 3rd party titles on the GC seems to be lower than the N64. The N64 had several million selling 3rd party titles (i'm talking about in a single territory) the GC has a grand total of none. They need an overhaul because what they're doing just isn't working.

 

[cvxfreak]

Did Nintendo cut royalty costs in Japan as well because I believe they were cut in America. Maybe that would be good enough for Hudson.

 

[cvxfreak]

Well then they've done a terrible job with this as interest in 3rd party titles on the GC seems to be lower than the N64. The N64 had several million selling 3rd party titles (i'm talking about in a single territory) the GC has a grand total of none. They need an overhaul because what they're doing just isn't working.

Well that won't be the case for long (no third party million sellers in a single territory).

 

[Rocket Punch]

instead of going into E3 with the, "Hee hee, we're SPECIAL!" feel (2003), they go in with the rebellious, "FUCK YOU" (2004) feel

GET N OR GET THE FUCK OUT!

 

[cvxfreak]

GET N OR GET THE FUCK OUT!

LOL

 

[jarrod]

Off the top of my head, games/ports NCL should go for...

Capcom
-Under the Skin
-Ookami
-Capcom Fighting Evolution
-MegaMan Network Transmission 2

Namco
-Tales of Legendia
-Katamari Damancy Oni
-Tekken 5

Konami
-Shaman King: Master of Spirits
-Yu-Gi-Oh! The Falsebound Kingdom II
-New Prince of Tennis
-Ys: The Ark of Napishtam

Hudson
-Bloody Roar Extreme 2
-Tengai Makyo III: Namida

Tomy
-Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen! 3

Sega Sammy
-Super Monkey Ball 3
-Astro Boy
-Knight N' Knight
-Pro Yakyuu Team o Tsukurou! 2004

Bandai
-Zeta Gundam: AEUG Vs Titans DX
-New Fullmetal Alchemist (maybe an ARPG)

Banpresto
-Super Robot Taisen GC

...I think Nintendo could realistically round up all of that...

 

[AniHawk]

Well then they've done a terrible job with this as interest in 3rd party titles on the GC seems to be lower than the N64. The N64 had several million selling 3rd party titles (i'm talking about in a single territory) the GC has a grand total of none. They need an overhaul because what they're doing just isn't working.

Well there's a reason Cruis'n USA sold 1.5 million copies. How many games were released on the N64? 187-200? How many games are released NOW on the GC in about half the time? Closing in on 350?

Third party success on the GC is being spread out over a lot more games than the N64, because there were so much fewer on the N64.

EDIT: Yeah, a Tekken 5 w/ Link (new Zelda XII design) would probably sell well. Can't see it standing on its own though. It'd need the same push SC II had.

 

[jarrod]

Well then they've done a terrible job with this as interest in 3rd party titles on the GC seems to be lower than the N64. The N64 had several million selling 3rd party titles (i'm talking about in a single territory) the GC has a grand total of none. They need an overhaul because what they're doing just isn't working.

Well, GC also has about half the userbase N64 did. All things considered, games like Sonic or Resident Evil are probably more successful than any N64 3rd party franchises. Also, GC seems to be doing okay in America (not sure about Europe) but in Japan it really does seem like only Nintendo games (and Naruto) can crack that 400k barrier. It's not really just Nintendo's problem though, the whole market has been in a downswing since PS2 launched. :/

 

[drohne]

capcom are clearly in retreat as well. re4 is the only notable exclusive. the capcom five turned into the capcom two and three fourths: viewtiful joe's being ported, killer 7's multiplatform, and dead phoenix got canned. for the good of the industry indeed. capcom's plan to save the gamecube is turning out a lot like their plan to save the dreamcast - lots of talk, not much original content. personally i'd take their arcadey dreamcast lineup over resident evil without a second thought, but that's me.

gamecube fans had better hope that nintendo continues to support the platform wholeheartedly for the remainder of its lifespan. with the impending launch of ds, the eventuality of revolution, and the continuing success of gba, however, i wonder how much attention gc will receive.

ps: BUY A PS2

 

[cvxfreak]

I think BioHazard Zero was Nintendo's best selling third party game within the last 6 years...

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well there's a reason Cruis'n USA sold 1.5 million copies. How many games were released on the N64? 187-200? How many games are released NOW on the GC in about half the time? Closing in on 350?

Yes there's a software difference, but the difference is just huge. Sure it's happened on all platforms, but it seems to have hit Nintendo the hardest.

"Well, GC also has about half the userbase N64 did."

More proof that what they're doing just isn't working. They're going down in fanbase, losing hardcore fans ect. Sony, despite having a huge fanbase with the PSone seems to be on track to outsell that with the PS2. Even without a huge fanbase with the N64 it doesn't seem like the GC will pass it. They need to change what they're doing because it very clearly isn't working.

 

[jarrod]

More proof that what they're doing just isn't working. They're going down in fanbase, losing hardcore fans ect. Sony, despite having a huge fanbase with the PSone seems to be on track to outsell that with the PS2. Even without a huge fanbase with the N64 it doesn't seem like the GC will pass it. They need to change what they're doing because it very clearly isn't working.

I think they've realized that by now though, hence the Revolution talk and "mature" Zelda. We won't get another GameCube next time around, just don't expect Nintendo to follow Sony's exact gameplan either...

 

[AniHawk]

gamecube fans had better hope that nintendo continues to support the platform wholeheartedly for the remainder of its lifespan. with the impending launch of ds, the eventuality of revolution, and the continuing success of gba, however, i wonder how much attention gc will receive.

I'm sure Nintendo's gonna give the system at least twice the support they gave the N64. Nintendo is expanding as a company, and they're working faster on games than they did last gen.

 

[SA-X]

GC third party support is better than the N64, no question. The big difference between N64 and GC is that the number of high profile 2nd party games has dwindled. Mostly due to Rare's implosion, and that Retro Studios, which Nintendo was counting on to be the US equivalent of Rare for a 1-2 punch, has made a grand total of 1 game so far for GC. I think Gamecube would be well ahead of Xbox worldwide if the 2nd party support was what it was in the N64 days, combined with the improved Japanese 3rd party support. My opinion, anyway.

 

[AniHawk]

They need to change what they're doing because it very clearly isn't working.

It's like there's a fucking echo in here. It's amazing.

 

[etiolate]

The fanbase that made the N64 larger has gone on to Xbox and are buying those same type of 3rd party games on Xbox. Wrestling games, FPS and racers.

The finacial situation is there not a starved audience for 3rd parties to make money off of like they did with N64, but the reality is I would rather have the Gamecube 3rd party situation than the N64 3rd party situation any day. I'll take Sonic, RE, Viewtiful Joe, Tales, Soul Calibur and Final Fantasy over San Francisco Rush*, WWF and Shadowman any day.



*Please make a new Rush game. What happened to that studio?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think they've realized that by now though, hence the Revolution talk and "mature" Zelda. We won't get another GameCube next time around, just don't expect Nintendo to follow Sony's exact gameplan either...

They were suppose to learn last gen too and that didn't seem to work. I don't expect them to follow Sony's lead at all. But if they don't change then they'll just continue to lose market instead of gain it. The Zelda thing is a step in the right direction. Harrisons sales rant is a step in the "We can't possibly be this delusional, or can we" direction.

 

[AniHawk]

They were suppose to learn last gen too and that didn't seem to work. I don't expect them to follow Sony's lead at all. But if they don't change then they'll just continue to lose market instead of gain it. The Zelda thing is a step in the right direction. Harrisons sales rant is a step in the "We can't possibly be this delusional, or can we" direction.

Harrison's sales rant was done because IT'S WHAT ALL COMPANIES DO.

No company wants to say, "Oh, we're about equal of a newcomer, and we lost marketshare last gen." It's supposed to get the media to think of Nintendo as not a failing company. That was the whole point. I don't think for a minute anyone at Nintendo believed their own words, or else we wouldn't have seen a Zelda like that in the first place.

 

[drohne]

it's obvious, but worth stating: any development resources nintendo expends on the gamecube are resources they aren't expending on revolution. and i don't think they can afford to launch their next console with an initial lineup as anemic as gamecube's. i wouldn't be surprised if realda was the last major gamecube game.

but screw the gamecube - the gba's software lineup is thinning too. there's really nothing gamecube provides that xbox and ps2 can't. but if publishers start neglecting the gba, where will i go for my 2d fix?

 

[etiolate]

They did change from last generation, so I am sick of hearing that. They went after all the third parties that they didn't have before and offered them deals and chances to use their franchises.

Their image hasn't changed much, their advertising hasn't improved much, but their mindhsare is somethign they may not be able to help. Nintendo won't spend the amount of money on advertising that MS and Sony will. I don't know if they can afford to. Nintendo's voice is like a little squeak in a rowdy bar. Even when they try to do the same obnoxious GEN X sort of advertising that Sony and MS deal it comes off as forced and uncomfortable. Their retro advertising for Gameboy is much better and more believable to the public.

Xbox: Hardcore

Where the hell did this idea come from? Unless you mean hardcore action it makes no sense. PC Ports and Sports. That is the antithesis of videogame culture.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Everyone company does do a sales report sure. But there's a time when you've just gotta say "Maybe this isn't such a good idea". This was one of those times. The GC sales just aren't looking good. For that conference it'd been best just to keep everything focused on the games. Everyone seemed really upbeat about the conference till he came on with those comparisons and then people just started laughing.

 

[jarrod]

They were suppose to learn last gen too and that didn't seem to work.

They did learn though, 3rd parties were enthusiastically behind the easy to program powerful GameCube from franchise lending, co-developing, innovative uncle Nintendo. The problems this gen have been purely market based (unlike N64 which was philosophy/design based).

I don't expect them to follow Sony's lead at all. But if they don't change then they'll just continue to lose market instead of gain it. The Zelda thing is a step in the right direction. Harrisons sales rant is a step in the "We can't possibly be this delusional, or can we" direction.

Hey SSX here's an idea: rather than annoyingly repeating "it's not working, Nintendo needs to do something else, seen it before" as many ways as you can how about taking that criticism to a new level and actually explore some potential solutions? And please, let's steer clear of any forced parallels with last generation if possible, we heard it the first few [thousand] times...

We know there needs to be change... but change how?

 

[AniHawk]

it's obvious, but worth stating: any development resources nintendo expends on the gamecube are resources they aren't expending on revolution. and i don't think they can afford to launch their next console with an initial lineup as anemic as gamecube's. i wouldn't be surprised if realda was the last major gamecube game.

I wouldn't be surprised if Realda is their last major GC game either since it will be one of the biggest released on the system at all.

there's really nothing gamecube provides that xbox and ps2 can't.

That's entirely your wrong opinion.

 

[AniHawk]

Where the hell did this idea come from? Unless you mean hardcore action it makes no sense. PC Ports and Sports. That is the antithesis of videogame culture.

I mean that it's kinda the same people who supported Genesis. They're the "hardcore" by breaking away from the normal PS2 bunch and playing on the Xbox. There seems to be a lot more blood and guts on the Xbox.

Just how I see it, anyway.

 

[jarrod]

I mean that it's kinda the same people who supported Genesis. They're the "hardcore" by breaking away from the normal PS2 bunch and playing on the Xbox. There seems to be a lot more blood and guts on the Xbox.

Just how I see it, anyway.

The N64 userbase had an element of this also.

 

[AniHawk]

The N64 userbase had an element of this also.

Yeah, but towards the end, and with the rise of Pokemon, the "kiddie" stigma gave rise to huge Nintendo unpopularity.

"Though GoldenEye, that game was good."

 

[drohne]

the only remotely meaningful or objective way of measuring the hardness of a user's core is to look at how many games he buys. determining "hardcoreness" based on which games he buys is just a pretext for fanboy editorializing - "people who play the games i like are hardcore." on average, gamecube owners buy just about the same number of games as xbox users, and fewer games than ps2 owners. ps2's been on the market longer, of course, which probably skews its numbers. i don't think you can really argue that one console's userbase is more likely to be "hardcore."

 

[nubbe]

Breaking away from the PS2 bunch?
The majority are breaking away from the PC bunch

 

[AniHawk]

Here's a different analogy:

PS2, GBA SP: Alternative/Punk/Rap (Or whatever is in the mainstream)
Xbox: Hard Rock/Metal (not the mainstream, but popular)
GC: Pop (used to be popular, not very cool among other mainstream music)

I didn't mean hardcore as in hardcore gamer at all. A hardcore gamer is more likely to still be playing only a Dreamcast.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Hey SSX here's an idea: rather than annoyingly repeating "it's not working, Nintendo needs to do something else, seen it before" as many ways as you can how about taking that criticism to a new level and actually explore some potential solutions? And please, let's steer clear of any forced parallels with last generation if possible, we heard it the first few [thousand] times...

Well mainly because Nintendo fans don't want to hear it because they generally back any idea Nintendo comes up with no matter what. But..

1.) Nintendo's gotta change their stance on game development. The "we develop games for everyone" has to be ditched. I'm not saying they can't do the Mario's, Kirby's, Animal Crossings ect anymore, they still can. But the fact of the matter is when people see those they think kiddy now. I'm not saying they have to make a GTA or something but just games that completely appeal to adult gamers.

2.) If they want hardcore gamers they'll have to finnaly adopt the much feared online gaming. Yah they're going to lose money but it'll bring in some of the hardcore.

3.) Dump who're they're using as a marketing team. They suck.

4.) Even though this should be obvious, launch with a Mario game. There is no substitute.

5.) Match Sony with everything they do from a hardware standpoint. This is a must, don't give them any advantages.

 

[etiolate]

PS2, GBA SP: Alternative/Punk/Rap/Pop (Or whatever is in the mainstream)
Xbox: Hard Rock/Nu Metal (not the mainstream, but popular)
GC: Indie (Niche, oldschool, fuck the mainstream)

My version.

 

[AniHawk]

Well mainly because Nintendo fans don't want to hear it because they generally back any idea Nintendo comes up with no matter what. But..

1.) Nintendo's gotta change their stance on game development. The "we develop games for everyone" has to be ditched. I'm not saying they can't do the Mario's, Kirby's, Animal Crossings ect anymore, they still can. But the fact of the matter is when people see those they think kiddy now. I'm not saying they have to make a GTA or something but just games that completely appeal to adult gamers.

2.) If they want hardcore gamers they'll have to finnaly adopt the much feared online gaming. Yah they're going to lose money but it'll bring in some of the hardcore.

3.) Dump who're they're using as a marketing team. They suck.

4.) Even though this should be obvious, launch with a Mario game. There is no substitute.

5.) Match Sony with everything they do from a hardware standpoint. This is a must, don't give them any advantages.

1. No. But Nintendo should form alliances with those who will make games games like GoldenEye, Metroid Prime, and Eternal Darkness (bad example since it failed saleswise, but you get the point). And it's not because I don't think Nintendo shouldn't do it, it's because I think they can't do it correctly. I'm a bit worried about how the next Zelda will turn out, looking dark as the N64 games, after the TWW. TWW had an ending which was written almost perfectly, but had some moments where the style of the game, and the cheesy sound effects rubbed it the wrong way.

2. They should when they can give an edge over the competition. If it's wireless, and more importantly, free, I'm sure that should do it.

3. Yes.

4. Yes.

5. No, but launch with at least the new basics: CD player, DVD player, backwards compatability. Nintendo can't afford to go with a TiVo system or whatever Sony has planned, but they could at least do the basics.

 

[drohne]

ps2: omg j-pop wai wai ^_^
xbox: yeah, has to be nu metal
gamecube: contemporary christian

 

[jarrod]

Well mainly because Nintendo fans don't want to hear it because they generally back any idea Nintendo comes up with no matter what. But..

1.) Nintendo's gotta change their stance on game development. The "we develop games for everyone" has to be ditched. I'm not saying they can't do the Mario's, Kirby's, Animal Crossings ect anymore, they still can. But the fact of the matter is when people see those they think kiddy now. I'm not saying they have to make a GTA or something but just games that completely appeal to adult gamers.

2.) If they want hardcore gamers they'll have to finnaly adopt the much feared online gaming. Yah they're going to lose money but it'll bring in some of the hardcore.

3.) Dump who're they're using as a marketing team. They suck.

4.) Even though this should be obvious, launch with a Mario game. There is no substitute.

5.) Match Sony with everything they do from a hardware standpoint. This is a must, don't give them any advantages.

All that sounds perfectly reasonable, and to be honest I think we're seeing signs of some of it right now (Zelda GC2, DS networking, etc). Though to be totally fair, I really like the current GBA ads Nintendo's been running for Mario Vs DK and Classic NES, extremely stylish. They need to do more stuff like that and less "actors in foam suits".

Also, there's no way Nintendo will be matching PS3 feature for feature (neither will MS though). Revolution won't have a Blue-Ray Drive I can guarantee...