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GC Japan 3rd Party Situation
- Thread starter jarrod
- Start date
SolidSnakex
Member
"1. No. But Nintendo should form alliances with those who will make games games like GoldenEye, Metroid Prime, and Eternal Darkness (bad example since it failed saleswise, but you get the point)."
They need some sort of first/2nd party franchises that are made for that group. They don't have that now. Metroid doesn't cut it, although Giest might. They need the Goldeneye type game. Yah they're hard to come by and there's only a few a generation, but it's very important that they land one exclusively. They also need a few other atleast decent sized ones. Basically they can't go through another generation where their first/2nd party content is completely dominated with family friendly games.
"Also, there's no way Nintendo will be matching PS3 feature for feature (neither will MS though). Revolution won't have a Blue-Ray Drive I can guarantee..."
I'm really talking about the stuff we've seen this gen. Like DVD playback, network adapter, harddrive ect. They should've done DVD playback this gen but didn't for some reason. Next time they should definetly do it.
Most of what they should do is obvious, it's just a question of whether or not they're up for it. I'm still not completely convinced about them taking next gen seriously.
They need some sort of first/2nd party franchises that are made for that group. They don't have that now. Metroid doesn't cut it, although Giest might. They need the Goldeneye type game. Yah they're hard to come by and there's only a few a generation, but it's very important that they land one exclusively. They also need a few other atleast decent sized ones. Basically they can't go through another generation where their first/2nd party content is completely dominated with family friendly games.
"Also, there's no way Nintendo will be matching PS3 feature for feature (neither will MS though). Revolution won't have a Blue-Ray Drive I can guarantee..."
I'm really talking about the stuff we've seen this gen. Like DVD playback, network adapter, harddrive ect. They should've done DVD playback this gen but didn't for some reason. Next time they should definetly do it.
Most of what they should do is obvious, it's just a question of whether or not they're up for it. I'm still not completely convinced about them taking next gen seriously.
Merging with Bandai is probably on of the better things they could do to make themselves a feasible force.
They would get a great infomercial power over youth since they would manage animation, game and toy content.
Nintendo either need to diversify their franchises or go all out on one market, IMO. In the old days there where basically only on group to please with your franchises, that isnt the case today there are many groups who need different kinds of mood content, games targeted at everyone dose not fit everyones taste.
Nintendo are the one who are setting the standards for their console, third parties cant do that. They can only extend the user base and ride upon the initial base.
They would get a great infomercial power over youth since they would manage animation, game and toy content.
Nintendo either need to diversify their franchises or go all out on one market, IMO. In the old days there where basically only on group to please with your franchises, that isnt the case today there are many groups who need different kinds of mood content, games targeted at everyone dose not fit everyones taste.
Nintendo are the one who are setting the standards for their console, third parties cant do that. They can only extend the user base and ride upon the initial base.
Red Dolphin
Member
I agree with SSX on the point that Nintendo needs strong 1st party games that truely appeal to all gamers. I'm sorry but Mario "whatever" doesn't anymore. They need to create more franchises like Zelda.
Zelda is the perfect example of a game that really does appeal to everyone (except WW anyway). The new Zelda is looking to be great. It takes itself seriously by featuring realistic graphics and presentation but is not over the top with violence, blood etc so that is not inappropriate for younger players. I love my Mario games but you can't tell me the average Xbox or PS2 gamer feels all that comfortable playing games like Mario Party.
I agree that they should keep making the "kiddy" games because they still sell well. What we are asking for is a balance of those "kiddy" games (Mario, Kirby, Yoshi, Pokemon) and games which truely appeal to adults (but are still suitable for younger players (Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem). At the moment theres far to many kiddy games so it gives the image the Nintendo of only having games for kids (which is just not true but that is the image that Nintendo have created).
Zelda is the perfect example of a game that really does appeal to everyone (except WW anyway). The new Zelda is looking to be great. It takes itself seriously by featuring realistic graphics and presentation but is not over the top with violence, blood etc so that is not inappropriate for younger players. I love my Mario games but you can't tell me the average Xbox or PS2 gamer feels all that comfortable playing games like Mario Party.
I agree that they should keep making the "kiddy" games because they still sell well. What we are asking for is a balance of those "kiddy" games (Mario, Kirby, Yoshi, Pokemon) and games which truely appeal to adults (but are still suitable for younger players (Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem). At the moment theres far to many kiddy games so it gives the image the Nintendo of only having games for kids (which is just not true but that is the image that Nintendo have created).
Miburou said:
Somewhere near 4 million, I'd imagine.
Square has the numbers from Media Create (even dating back for the PS2, GBA, and GC). He pops in every now and then, but last time was December, I think, and it was 3.6 million then.
By comparison, the N64 sold over 5 million consoles in its lifetime in Japan.
Alcibiades
Member
With Paper Mario 2, Mario Party 6, and Biohazard 4 still to come, it looks like the GCN will almost certainly surpass what the N64 sold in hardware in Japan, so that's cool...
Found the numbers:
N64:
Japan: 5.54 million
WW: 32.92 million
Saturn:
Japan: 5.6 million
WW: 14.46 million
DC:
Japan: 2.8 milllion
WW: 11 million
Then there's some interesting stuff...
VB:
Japan: 630,000
WW: 1.26 million
3DO:
Japan: 720,000
WW: 1.34 million
Genesis:
Japan: 3.58 million
WW: 34.32 million
SNES:
Japan: 17.15 million
WW: 49.02 million
N64:
Japan: 5.54 million
WW: 32.92 million
Saturn:
Japan: 5.6 million
WW: 14.46 million
DC:
Japan: 2.8 milllion
WW: 11 million
Then there's some interesting stuff...
VB:
Japan: 630,000
WW: 1.26 million
3DO:
Japan: 720,000
WW: 1.34 million
Genesis:
Japan: 3.58 million
WW: 34.32 million
SNES:
Japan: 17.15 million
WW: 49.02 million
MightyHedgehog
Member
efralope said:
Yeah, but it's still a weaker showing than N64 if you factor in that the N64 went against 3 different good-selling console competitors (PS, Saturn, DC) in Japan while GC has only one (PS2). Shows how far down GC is compared to its predecessor in the same market, despite the fact that the earlier console was more expensive (on average) and had a lot more competition in the market there. Hopefully, Nintendo's faith in Revolution is well-placed.
The market as a whole has dwindled in the last few years. PS2 probably won't match the PSone completely, or will only eclipse it by a small amount. Then we have the GC matching or hardly surpassing the N64, but the 5 Million Saturn owners are missing. This is unless the PS2 manages to zip passed the PSone but it might not happen.
I read all of these solutions, but in the end Nintendo doesn't have magic wand. A few days ago when we were discussing Xbox in Japan it dawned on me that above all the biggest problem for Nintendo and MS IS Sony.
They could do better in their attempts at third party support, but ultimately Sony's userbase cancels out their noise.
I think the best thing for Nintendo is to finish out this without looking like they are creeping by like the N64. When they launch the Revolution, they need to launch it with their best foot forward. Nintendo failed the GC by giving it such a strange style and launching it without a suitable launch title (LM, while charming, lacks most of what's needed to launch a system. It's only a fraction of the kind of game that Mario 64 or SMW were).
The real battle is really at the beginning of the generation when everything has been, in theory, resetted. That is where most of Nintendo's efforts should be placed. It's too late to make sweeping changes in the middle of the generation because the one with the biggest marketshare will always be an obstacle to your efforts.
They could do better in their attempts at third party support, but ultimately Sony's userbase cancels out their noise.
I think the best thing for Nintendo is to finish out this without looking like they are creeping by like the N64. When they launch the Revolution, they need to launch it with their best foot forward. Nintendo failed the GC by giving it such a strange style and launching it without a suitable launch title (LM, while charming, lacks most of what's needed to launch a system. It's only a fraction of the kind of game that Mario 64 or SMW were).
The real battle is really at the beginning of the generation when everything has been, in theory, resetted. That is where most of Nintendo's efforts should be placed. It's too late to make sweeping changes in the middle of the generation because the one with the biggest marketshare will always be an obstacle to your efforts.
I suppose that much is possible. But can the PS2 alone compensate toward last gen's total of 30 Million? It'd have to sell 24 Million units in Japan to do so and the rest coming from the GC and a little from Xbox. Remember, PSone + Saturn + N64 ~~ 30 Million 32/64 bit systems in Japan
ge-man said:
You're right. In a way, Nintendo and MS need each other against Sony. Nintendo has the best chance of dislodging Sony next gen in Japan and MS can help knock them down a few rounds in the U.S. Nintendo and MS need to launch at the same time as PS3, offer something different at a better value, etc.
CVXFREAK said:
That's an interesting point. I don't forsee Nintendo and MS ever getting to the point of joining forces on a console, but I think they should consider how they could work together on their respesctive launches to wear down any momentum Sony has going in. A real one-two punch based on timing and launching with specific big titles could slow them down. In the last two gens, Sony was left alone to fight against a weakened Sega. But now they have to worry about a hungry newcommer and an old timer that can still pull something from out their sleeves.
Buffy4ever
Banned
Nintendo, should really try at the launch. They failed with the Gamecube launch. Maybe they saw how Sony launched the PS2 with just 3rd Party games, and thought it might work for Them too, it didn't. Let me clear up that last statement, this generation the games Nintendo launched with their system were less then stellar, then the ones they launched with the N64, instead they tried to spotlight the 3rd party games. They need to come aboard with alot of stellar titles,games more like Mario 64 and the orignal wave Race, as they did with the N64. People were wowed by the games on the N64, and while thier was less 3rd party, the old Nintendo Magic was there. Those Nintendo games attracted not just fans of Nintendo games but other people too, the same can't be said for the Gamecube. Nintendo really needs to combine the N64 launch and the Gamecube launch, which is have the 3rd party games out at launch, and have the amazing games with great ideas like the N64.
Plus they need to have a dvd player in the system, make people think they are getting more then just a game machine. Sony started this trend with PS1 and continued this with PS2.
Also, looking at Only the Japanese market as a guide line for the rest of the world, should be alterd, an example of this is them saying players don't won't online play. Sega did this mistake, and look where they are today, Sega thought they knew what the US wnated, beucase they had a success in Japan with the saturn, and when people told them to do things differently, Sega buried thier head in the sand.
I think Nintendo should continue thier family friendly fanchises, like Mario, Zelda, and Metriod, but also start alot of fresh new game ideas. Sony added alot of new games franchises, this generation, and this has helped Sony.
Plus they need to have a dvd player in the system, make people think they are getting more then just a game machine. Sony started this trend with PS1 and continued this with PS2.
Also, looking at Only the Japanese market as a guide line for the rest of the world, should be alterd, an example of this is them saying players don't won't online play. Sega did this mistake, and look where they are today, Sega thought they knew what the US wnated, beucase they had a success in Japan with the saturn, and when people told them to do things differently, Sega buried thier head in the sand.
I think Nintendo should continue thier family friendly fanchises, like Mario, Zelda, and Metriod, but also start alot of fresh new game ideas. Sony added alot of new games franchises, this generation, and this has helped Sony.
TheUnknownForce
Member
Anyone thinking Nintendo will put CD/DVD playback and BC in their next sysem needs to stop thinking that. It will be BC, but Nintendo never did/will do special playbacks that the PS2 and Xbox did. Too costly.
As for the Revolution, part of me is worried that they are going to try and be too original with the design and ultimately cause major damage to themselves. No consumer really wants odd things; they want to play a cool game. This was the problem with connectivity; gamers with only a GCN couldn't play the games. Rather than buy a GBA to play that one or two games, why not buy simple, easy to start playing games on the PS2?
As for the Revolution, part of me is worried that they are going to try and be too original with the design and ultimately cause major damage to themselves. No consumer really wants odd things; they want to play a cool game. This was the problem with connectivity; gamers with only a GCN couldn't play the games. Rather than buy a GBA to play that one or two games, why not buy simple, easy to start playing games on the PS2?
though i agree that Nintendo really should put their efforts into gaining more marketshare next-gen with the Revolution, i don't think Nintendo should put much less effort into GC support between now and the next-gen launch - IMO the fact that the N64 basically faded out and had almost no software support in its twilight days, apart from the odd, much anticipated Rare or Nintendo titles once every 6 months or so dealt a huge blow to Nintendo's reputation, as if it hadn't already been damaged during the N64's lifetime. (this is at least what i've observed in Australia.)
i think its a good idea to get some of the momentum started early, and carry it on into Revolution's launch, and as i can see it, they don't seem to be able to keep the momentum rolling. i think this gen, a lot of it is to blame on their over-reliance on their well-known franchises to move systems, as well as inability to sustain good 3rd party sales - they just become ill-fated on the GC for one reason or another, with a few exceptions, and that just begins a spiral of:
low 3rd party sales -> less third party support -> less 3rd party exclusives -> less units sold -> more of the GC userbase just owning it for Nintendo titles -> ...
i think its a good idea to get some of the momentum started early, and carry it on into Revolution's launch, and as i can see it, they don't seem to be able to keep the momentum rolling. i think this gen, a lot of it is to blame on their over-reliance on their well-known franchises to move systems, as well as inability to sustain good 3rd party sales - they just become ill-fated on the GC for one reason or another, with a few exceptions, and that just begins a spiral of:
low 3rd party sales -> less third party support -> less 3rd party exclusives -> less units sold -> more of the GC userbase just owning it for Nintendo titles -> ...
Nintendo's "we're a games-only machine" does not even have half as many games as Sony's "DVD player" is pretty shameful.
I think Nintendo should find a better excuse for not being as competitive as their competitors. First it was "Quality over Quantity", yet PSone still had as much if not more quality titles as N64 + tons more 3rd party software to choose from. Then now it's "we're games-only" which I've already mentioned.
I think Nintendo should find a better excuse for not being as competitive as their competitors. First it was "Quality over Quantity", yet PSone still had as much if not more quality titles as N64 + tons more 3rd party software to choose from. Then now it's "we're games-only" which I've already mentioned.
Journeywalker
Member
I've noticed something kind of interesting in this generation: The launch lineup, while not absolutely crucial in terms of sales, is critical in forming the "image" of a system. The games that continue to sell well in Japan and the United States on Gamecube are the games that mirror the experience of SSB:M. Meanwhile, one player action/adventure games, the absolute signature of N64, get stuck in the 700,000's like Super Mario Sunchine and Zelda: Wind Waker.
No actually, Saturn had a stong "hardcore" userbase that kept it afloat (like PC Engine) and made the platform a particularly strong market for fighters, shooters and RPGs. In fact Saturn was still going strong in 1998, Sega prematurely ended it's lifecycle to make way for Dreamcast (and encouraged 3rd parties to do the same). Saturn had another good 2 years in it imo... to bad those rumors of DC backwards compatability never resulting in anything.AniHawk said:
Actually, it was 31 million. 33 million if you throw in stuff like PC-FX, NeoGeo CD and 3DO.CVXFREAK said:
GC/PS2/XBox are currently at 20 million. It goes to 23 million if you add Dreamcast.
The only thing that I can say that hasn't already been said in this thread is:
Don't allow for a major software lull at any time. There should never be a month that passes without a notable exclusive title. And by notable, I don't mean blockbuster - just something marketable, that keeps people interested in the system. Just because January-February and April-August are slower times of the year doesn't mean that people stop buying games then. System owners will already buy something interesting if it's there.
If that means that Nintendo has to pay to get the right kinds of software out there, so be it. People lose interest when there's nothing new to play, even if there is big back catalog with a lot of "hidden gems". When I walk into Blockbuster, I shouldn't see that half of the top rentals are games that are close to a year old.
Don't allow for a major software lull at any time. There should never be a month that passes without a notable exclusive title. And by notable, I don't mean blockbuster - just something marketable, that keeps people interested in the system. Just because January-February and April-August are slower times of the year doesn't mean that people stop buying games then. System owners will already buy something interesting if it's there.
If that means that Nintendo has to pay to get the right kinds of software out there, so be it. People lose interest when there's nothing new to play, even if there is big back catalog with a lot of "hidden gems". When I walk into Blockbuster, I shouldn't see that half of the top rentals are games that are close to a year old.
I guess Nintendo of America's tried this year. Sonic Heroes in January, Crystal Chronicles in February, Pokemon Colosseum/MGSTTS/Harvest Moon in March, Wario Ware in April, Custom Robo in May and FSA in June. Sadly, nothing's worked too well except for March.
In Japan, it's a hugely different story and most of the top list is first party anyway. =/
In Japan, it's a hugely different story and most of the top list is first party anyway. =/
seismologist
Banned
puck1337 said:
I think it takes more than that. 1 token exclusive per month isn't going to cut it. I think Nintendo's already doing that. They tried in March thy made a big deal about Twin Snakes. The game sucks in my opinion and on top of that it was an old game that I played like 5 years ago. So for someone like me there was nothing.
The only solution is to have tons of support like the PS2 or do a better job picking their 3rd party exclusives.
Some people are acting as if the reason Nintendo does not have as many 3rd party games is because they're not asking for them, or otherwise not doing something that would enable more games.seismologist said:
IMO, Nintendo is working their release schedule as best they can with the 3rd party games they are getting. But when you have a console with a userbase notorious for shunning almost all non-exclusive third party software when compared to other platforms, it gets to be hard to make a case for development.
Don't like that Nintendo managed to at least get some version of an MGS game (and a pretty good one too, IMO)? Buy a PS2, or at least wait until the Revolution to see how things go. The GC's third party relationships are pretty much set in stone at this point, though. Don't play armchair quarterback and say Nintendo just needs PS2-like support when it's quite unrealistic for them to be able to do so.
People are expecting too much. As said above, you cannot do wonders every month with a userbase of a 1/7th of the leader. Nintendo secured the RE series, one MGS, on FF, many games from Namco, some sega exclusives, some Capcom games. They did pretty much what they could. After that, you can just hope the public will buy into it. You can not expect 3rd parties will treat the GC like the ps2 on a constant basis, especially when sales do not follow.
Some of you guys should be careful when talking about how Nintendo should make mature games, it's like you're saying, "Nintendo should make the type of games I like."
Let's face it, Nintendo has a very strong market for kids, why shouldn't they strengthen that market instead of wasting resources making 1 or 2 games for the "mature" market that will sell like Eternal Darkness or Twin Snakes.
Let's face it, Nintendo has a very strong market for kids, why shouldn't they strengthen that market instead of wasting resources making 1 or 2 games for the "mature" market that will sell like Eternal Darkness or Twin Snakes.
Thing is, there has been some good sales follow through. REmake/Zero did really well for Capcom, SC2/Tales for Namco, Sonic/MonkeyBall/PSO for Sega, Naruto for Tomy, One Piece for Bandai, FFCC for Square Enix, Bloody Roar for Hudson, Yu-Gi-Oh/PowerPro for Konami, Harvest Moon for Marvelous/Natsume...wazoo said:
Good thread... lots of intelligent responses.
I don't have a lot to add, but I think that the GC audience has really already been determined by publishers. Bright, happy colorful games (Sonic, Harvest Moon, ToS, etc.)sell very good on Cube where as games like TTS, ED, and even RE aren't really the target audience and sales suffer.
So if publishers want to be successful they need to market those games on GC. How does Nintendo change their image? I don't know, but why would you want them too? They have proven that they can be profitable to themselves and publishers if they provide the right games.
I don't have a lot to add, but I think that the GC audience has really already been determined by publishers. Bright, happy colorful games (Sonic, Harvest Moon, ToS, etc.)sell very good on Cube where as games like TTS, ED, and even RE aren't really the target audience and sales suffer.
So if publishers want to be successful they need to market those games on GC. How does Nintendo change their image? I don't know, but why would you want them too? They have proven that they can be profitable to themselves and publishers if they provide the right games.
Image.
Nintendo's #1 problem is image. They had EVERYONE'S attention when they finally unveiled the GAMECUBE but blew it. Sure Nintendo fans (like me) didn't mind the design too much, nor did the image problem mean much to us 'cos we were gonna buy it for the games anyways. But everyone else had their hopes of Nintendo finally rising up to Sony CRUSHED. This was Nintendo's chance to grab these people and say: "we're serious this time", but instead they just told them: "we're just a kid's company". I remember this very clearly 'cos alot of developers and gamers WERE excited about the "Dolphin" project, but when Nintendo botched the unveiling (I, the Nintendo fan loved the unveiling, but the rest of the world did not) then they left themselves wide open to attack. Then here comes the X-BOX unveiling and everyone who had their hopes crushed by the GAMECUBE suddenly latched onto the X-BOX as the truly serious competitor to Sony. It had more features, more power and most importantly it's image was more serious. Nintendo was WAY too focussed on the Japanese market at this point, they gained alot better Japanese support 'cos of this, but they let Microsoft steal their western support in the same move. I would say that they, in fact, ignored Microsoft as any sort of real competitor 'cos they were wearing these Japanese focused goggles at the time. The design of the system, small and trendy really fit the Japanese market, but in the west they appeared like nothing more than a toy company. So, before GAMECUBE even launched Nintendo was pegged the "kiddie" company, not 'cos of content or the games, but mearly 'cos of the bad design. Then you have MS with all their money, power & influence coming in and it's any wonder GAMECUBE has done as well as it has...Nintendo just shot themselves in the foot before they even launched. Then...no Mario at launch, REALLY poor advertising and not enough of it. Retailers, gamers, publishers...the industry as a whole just pigeon-holed Nintendo into this child's toy category even with games like RE, ED & Metroid on the way. Then the whole Zelda WW thing and bam it was over in the mainstream's mind.
Nintendo needs to fix their image with "Revolution"...they'll have everyone's attention again when the system is unveiled. It CAN'T look like a toy, it CAN'T be under-featured to the competition, it CAN'T appear less powerful and Nintendo CAN'T look silly when they need to look serious...if that happens *again* then the industry *again* will peg Nintendo as the "kiddie" company before they even start. My suggestions for Nintendo to fix their image with the system itself is to have:
-NO pastel colors (have a black option and have that color be the main color...NO purple)
-NO odd shaped designs (it's being said that they're going with a design more like N64 and less like GAMECUBE...a good idea IMO)
-NO odd looking controller (the GAMECUBE controller is a dream to hold, but most won't even touch it 'cos it isn't "cool" looking)
-NO under performance (not only in specs, but don't have silly piss-poor 4 megabit memory cards & some small 1.5 GB discs when the competion has more to offer in those categories)
-if PS3 has BC, DVD & BR playback, "Revolution" should too
-online plan (built-in network, LAN, self-server HD, WiFi "free" network they keep leaning towards)
-whatever revolutionary features the system has, don't alienate the system with them...give the idea of these features as extra's (and put these features IN the box so that they work, don't try the connectivity buy extra hardware plan...doesn't work)
I garauntee this will solve ALOT of their problems. If the system looks serious then Nintendo will look serious. If it looks silly, then Nintendo will again be categorized as last place before they even launch. If Nintendo takes everything more seriously then they'll look more like a serious competitor and likewise the industry WILL follow suit and take them seriously. In no way do I think Nintendo's image will be changed *just* by making a more serious looking console...they need games that back it up. Where they have holes in their own library they need to fill them with third party exclussives. They (not someone seperate...THEY themselves) also need to do a M rated game or two from the start as well as their usual E stuff. I think a *great* game they could use for this is the Japan-only "Famicom Detective Club". Adults love serious psychological thrillers, murder, mysteries...and this is a game that could be the next exploding genre...the murder/mystery. And no, I don't mean survival horror or psychic combat games...I mean a serious game with a serious plot and adult theme's. Nintendo should plaster their name on this, advertise it like hell and BAM they'll show that they're changing without hurting their family-freindly image 'cos it's a new and seperate franchise from their traditional ones. Their efforts in getting closer to Bandai is also good...the Japanese anime IP's Bandai have are a step above what Nintendo's own franchises are age-wise and some of them (Cowboy Beebop) could be taken even more seriously!
I have lot's of (doable) idea's for helping Nintendo's market presence! But I think first & foremost they need to fix their image and I'd say a BIG way would be to unveil a serious machine in "Revolution" next E3 when they've got everyone's attention. Once they show the industry they're serous, the industry will take them seriously.
Nintendo's #1 problem is image. They had EVERYONE'S attention when they finally unveiled the GAMECUBE but blew it. Sure Nintendo fans (like me) didn't mind the design too much, nor did the image problem mean much to us 'cos we were gonna buy it for the games anyways. But everyone else had their hopes of Nintendo finally rising up to Sony CRUSHED. This was Nintendo's chance to grab these people and say: "we're serious this time", but instead they just told them: "we're just a kid's company". I remember this very clearly 'cos alot of developers and gamers WERE excited about the "Dolphin" project, but when Nintendo botched the unveiling (I, the Nintendo fan loved the unveiling, but the rest of the world did not) then they left themselves wide open to attack. Then here comes the X-BOX unveiling and everyone who had their hopes crushed by the GAMECUBE suddenly latched onto the X-BOX as the truly serious competitor to Sony. It had more features, more power and most importantly it's image was more serious. Nintendo was WAY too focussed on the Japanese market at this point, they gained alot better Japanese support 'cos of this, but they let Microsoft steal their western support in the same move. I would say that they, in fact, ignored Microsoft as any sort of real competitor 'cos they were wearing these Japanese focused goggles at the time. The design of the system, small and trendy really fit the Japanese market, but in the west they appeared like nothing more than a toy company. So, before GAMECUBE even launched Nintendo was pegged the "kiddie" company, not 'cos of content or the games, but mearly 'cos of the bad design. Then you have MS with all their money, power & influence coming in and it's any wonder GAMECUBE has done as well as it has...Nintendo just shot themselves in the foot before they even launched. Then...no Mario at launch, REALLY poor advertising and not enough of it. Retailers, gamers, publishers...the industry as a whole just pigeon-holed Nintendo into this child's toy category even with games like RE, ED & Metroid on the way. Then the whole Zelda WW thing and bam it was over in the mainstream's mind.
Nintendo needs to fix their image with "Revolution"...they'll have everyone's attention again when the system is unveiled. It CAN'T look like a toy, it CAN'T be under-featured to the competition, it CAN'T appear less powerful and Nintendo CAN'T look silly when they need to look serious...if that happens *again* then the industry *again* will peg Nintendo as the "kiddie" company before they even start. My suggestions for Nintendo to fix their image with the system itself is to have:
-NO pastel colors (have a black option and have that color be the main color...NO purple)
-NO odd shaped designs (it's being said that they're going with a design more like N64 and less like GAMECUBE...a good idea IMO)
-NO odd looking controller (the GAMECUBE controller is a dream to hold, but most won't even touch it 'cos it isn't "cool" looking)
-NO under performance (not only in specs, but don't have silly piss-poor 4 megabit memory cards & some small 1.5 GB discs when the competion has more to offer in those categories)
-if PS3 has BC, DVD & BR playback, "Revolution" should too
-online plan (built-in network, LAN, self-server HD, WiFi "free" network they keep leaning towards)
-whatever revolutionary features the system has, don't alienate the system with them...give the idea of these features as extra's (and put these features IN the box so that they work, don't try the connectivity buy extra hardware plan...doesn't work)
I garauntee this will solve ALOT of their problems. If the system looks serious then Nintendo will look serious. If it looks silly, then Nintendo will again be categorized as last place before they even launch. If Nintendo takes everything more seriously then they'll look more like a serious competitor and likewise the industry WILL follow suit and take them seriously. In no way do I think Nintendo's image will be changed *just* by making a more serious looking console...they need games that back it up. Where they have holes in their own library they need to fill them with third party exclussives. They (not someone seperate...THEY themselves) also need to do a M rated game or two from the start as well as their usual E stuff. I think a *great* game they could use for this is the Japan-only "Famicom Detective Club". Adults love serious psychological thrillers, murder, mysteries...and this is a game that could be the next exploding genre...the murder/mystery. And no, I don't mean survival horror or psychic combat games...I mean a serious game with a serious plot and adult theme's. Nintendo should plaster their name on this, advertise it like hell and BAM they'll show that they're changing without hurting their family-freindly image 'cos it's a new and seperate franchise from their traditional ones. Their efforts in getting closer to Bandai is also good...the Japanese anime IP's Bandai have are a step above what Nintendo's own franchises are age-wise and some of them (Cowboy Beebop) could be taken even more seriously!
I have lot's of (doable) idea's for helping Nintendo's market presence! But I think first & foremost they need to fix their image and I'd say a BIG way would be to unveil a serious machine in "Revolution" next E3 when they've got everyone's attention. Once they show the industry they're serous, the industry will take them seriously.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
DrGAKMAN - excellent post.
There isn't a magic bullet to solve all of Nintendo's 3rd party problems but I think one thing they should do which Sony and, to a lesser extent, Microsoft have done well is advertise the hell out of 3rd party exclusives. This increases the sales of the games and it also establishes the brand of the console.
I can't remember ever seeing a single NOA produced commercial that was fully dedicated to any 3rd party exclusive game. Rogue Leader maybe, but I'm not sure if that was Nintendo's or not.
Meanwhile Sony has advertised it's PS2 3rd party games like crazy since the PS2 launched. I remember TTT, Summoner, and a crap load of other commercials. They haven't let up since.
Heck, even MS found the time to properly advertise Blinx, DOAXBV, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Wreckless, Splinter Cell (the single most effective advertising campaign this gen IMO) and a bunch of other games.
All that Nintendo has done is focus on it's own titles and their commercials always come off as weird and/or confusing. They took an artsy-fartsy direction with the Gamecube advertisements. What they should have done are commercials that show more game footage and less real people doing goofy things (SMS and Animal Crossing had the worst commercials this gen as far as I'm concerned). They need to keep it simple and to the point.
The frequency of their commercials is another problem. There are way too few of them and the ones that they do play seem to be concentrated on just a handfull of channels. Sony & Microsoft advertise a heck of alot more and they target all kinds of demographics by running commercials on all kinds of networks.
There isn't a magic bullet to solve all of Nintendo's 3rd party problems but I think one thing they should do which Sony and, to a lesser extent, Microsoft have done well is advertise the hell out of 3rd party exclusives. This increases the sales of the games and it also establishes the brand of the console.
I can't remember ever seeing a single NOA produced commercial that was fully dedicated to any 3rd party exclusive game. Rogue Leader maybe, but I'm not sure if that was Nintendo's or not.
Meanwhile Sony has advertised it's PS2 3rd party games like crazy since the PS2 launched. I remember TTT, Summoner, and a crap load of other commercials. They haven't let up since.
Heck, even MS found the time to properly advertise Blinx, DOAXBV, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Wreckless, Splinter Cell (the single most effective advertising campaign this gen IMO) and a bunch of other games.
All that Nintendo has done is focus on it's own titles and their commercials always come off as weird and/or confusing. They took an artsy-fartsy direction with the Gamecube advertisements. What they should have done are commercials that show more game footage and less real people doing goofy things (SMS and Animal Crossing had the worst commercials this gen as far as I'm concerned). They need to keep it simple and to the point.
The frequency of their commercials is another problem. There are way too few of them and the ones that they do play seem to be concentrated on just a handfull of channels. Sony & Microsoft advertise a heck of alot more and they target all kinds of demographics by running commercials on all kinds of networks.