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[Wendo]

Before I begin, let me give an operational definition.

By "many girls" or "some girls", I mean just that. They are not representative of every female by any means.

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One thing I've been very confused with is the line between "being a gentleman" and "being a sexist". There was a great scene in "My Stepmother is an Alien" in which a friend of Dan Aykroyd's character advised him that "Women these days don't like you to open doors for them". So when he didn't open doors that evening for his date, she was rather miffed and asked him why he was acting so coldly.

It seems in modern times that things that used to be considered "gentlemanly" are now "sexist", at least to some folks. Behaviors such as opening doors, lifting heavy objects, and other such acts are now often considered deragatory. However, the line between gentlemanly and sexist is ambiguous, and neither of the two are a "social norm" anymore. Other learned behaviors, such as the man paying for dinner, are also rather confusing.

I've seen this problem happen a couple of times where a guy was doing a traditional "gentlemanly behavior", only to have the woman freak out and call him sexist. Likewise, I've also noticed times where the lack of such a behavior has met a similar response. Without asking a deliberate, "Would you think it sexist if I opened the door for you?", a guy is left blindly hoping that he made the right choice.

I'm left confused about this. At times, I'll see a female coworker trying to lift a heavy box, and I contemplate whether I should offer to help or not(as I've been harshly criticized in the past for doing so). Or I'll see guys reprimanded for not offering their bus seats to a woman left standing.

Perhaps our wise GAFfers can help shed some light on this issue. I was raised to do things "gentlemanly", yet have found that we as a society are shifting away from that- but not to the point of a clear social norm.

 

[Boogie]

I've never gotten a negative reaction from a woman for such "gentlemanly"/chivalrous behaviour.

 

[videogamer]

Before I begin, let me give an operational definition.

By "many girls" or "some girls", I mean just that. They are not representative of every female by any means.

-----

One thing I've been very confused with is the line between "being a gentleman" and "being a sexist". There was a great scene in "My Stepmother is an Alien" in which a friend of Dan Aykroyd's character advised him that "Women these days don't like you to open doors for them". So when he didn't open doors that evening for his date, she was rather miffed and asked him why he was acting so coldly.

It seems in modern times that things that used to be considered "gentlemanly" are now "sexist", at least to some folks. Behaviors such as opening doors, lifting heavy objects, and other such acts are now often considered deragatory. However, the line between gentlemanly and sexist is ambiguous, and neither of the two are a "social norm" anymore. Other learned behaviors, such as the man paying for dinner, are also rather confusing.

I've seen this problem happen a couple of times where a guy was doing a traditional "gentlemanly behavior", only to have the woman freak out and call him sexist. Likewise, I've also noticed times where the lack of such a behavior has met a similar response. Without asking a deliberate, "Would you think it sexist if I opened the door for you?", a guy is left blindly hoping that he made the right choice.

I'm left confused about this. At times, I'll see a female coworker trying to lift a heavy box, and I contemplate whether I should offer to help or not(as I've been harshly criticized in the past for doing so). Or I'll see guys reprimanded for not offering their bus seats to a woman left standing.

Perhaps our wise GAFfers can help shed some light on this issue. I was raised to do things "gentlemanly", yet have found that we as a society are shifting away from that- but not to the point of a clear social norm.

1. Opening doors/lifting heavy things: Just do it for both sexes. It's just a polite thing to do, right?
2. Paying dinner: I just ask outright if they want to split or have me pay. But they are given the warning that if I pay, they are "expected" to pay for another dinner down the line.
3. The bus: Stay busy by reading something. Then you don't have to look up and be aware that someone is standing.

 

[karasu]

People just want to have their cakes and eat it too.

 

[Myllz]

People just want to have their cakes and eat it too.

Isn't eating the cake the entire point of having it?

 

[etiolate]

Isn't eating the cake the entire point of having it?

:lol That saying never made sense in english.

Anyways, the way I handle it is I still try to have a sense of chivalry and open doors, pay for food and offer a girl my umbrella in the rain, but I just do it in a way that shows it's out of kindness. I am being giving and not acting as though they are inferior. So when you open a door, don't leer at them. When you pay for dinner, say it is because you like them and because you can. Let them pay if you're short on money.

If they still act like dumb gender roles then, just fuck it. They're too immature to deal with.

 

[karasu]

If you eat the cake you no longer have it. The two are diametrically opposed.

 

[etiolate]

But you have your cake and then you eat it. I don't even think the idea is based on that, its from french which has a word that means eat and also have. Translated into American culture it makes little sense.

 

[maharg]

But you have your cake and then you eat it. I don't even think the idea is based on that, its from french which has a word that means eat and also have. Translated into American culture it makes little sense.

Uh, are you french? Because I'm not aware of any such word (I am not, however, french -- I just play one on TV). To have is avoir and to eat is manger. I'd be surprised if there was a verb that meant both in addition to those two clear ones, and I'm not sure I understand how such a play on words would suddenly make any more sense. In fact, in English, have is often used to mean eat, so it would almost make more sense as a double meaning in English.

All the references I can find have it coming from the US, actually. And it does make sense logically, because you cannot continue to have the cake AND eat it. It might make more sense to you the other way around (you can't eat your cake and have it too), which it looks like is the way it started. It still doesn't really make much sense as an idea though. Who wants a cake that they don't eat?

 

[karasu]

But you have your cake and then you eat it. I don't even think the idea is based on that, its from french which has a word that means eat and also have. Translated into American culture it makes little sense.

It makes total sense. You can't very well invite someone over for cake if you've ate it. Similarly you can't tell someone you have money that you've spent. :/ Whether money is meant to be spent or not/cake is meant to be eaten or not is besides the point. When it's gone, it's gone. You can't have it anymore, the pleasure you got from eating it is all over now.

 

[demi]

You guys should make me some cake.

 

[etiolate]

Prendre is the french word I am thinking of. Used like 'Je prends la salade.' Also can be used in ways to say "take". Take a nap, take your time.

It makes more sense if you reverse it and have eat before have, but that's not how it is worded. Example

There's other forms of the phrase that I think have been weeded out, but oddly some of those make more sense. The first written record of it is in America, but I am not sure that's the origin. I had heard of it in reference to the word prendre. We americans use "have" to say we ate something, but in different forms. When someone says "Let's have pizza!" it normally would mean that they don't have it yet, will get it and then eat it. When you have a phrase which relies on eliminating that progression to understand it then I don't think it makes sense within the culture.

I just always thought it was a dumb phrase people used without thinking about it. It's a personal annoyance of mine.

 

[maharg]

I'd have to re-search for the link, but the first recorded use was, I believe, the other way around (in the way that makes more sense). Anyway, no matter how many times you say otherwise, the logic of the statement is essentially sound, within reason given that it's originally from 500 years ago.

 

[Azala]

Well you see there's being polite and gentlemanly and imply we can do nothing on our own. For the most part I adore chivalry, I'm just not used to it, so I find myself being the chivalrous one when really I'd rather it was the other way around. And guys seem to get the wrong impression when girls open doors (even car doors). *chuckle*

 

[NLB2]

Wierdest derailment ever? I think so.

Anyway, just act gentlemanly for a girl and have her call you for it. Then the next time you get into an argument with her settle it like you would were she a guy: punch her in the face. When she bitches tell her to stop being sexist.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Wierdest derailment ever? I think so.

Anyway, just act gentlemanly for a girl and have her call you for it. Then the next time you get into an argument with her settle it like you would were she a guy: punch her in the face. When she bitches tell her to stop being sexist.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

i don't even ask old ladies if they want a seat on the bus/train any more, too many of them turned me down...

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I have yet to get chewed out for doing chivalrous things. Maybe my choice of women I take out isn't the angry feminist type.