We have all of that and worse under Trump, Bush wasn't a good president but at least he did not go out of his way to persecute others AND fill his cabinet with white supremacists, and colluded with the Russian government to influence our elections, all of this happening in the span of a month. but please,do tell minorities how good we have it under Trump.
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George W. Bush: Media is Indispensable to Democracy
- Thread starter Rainy
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We have all of that and worse under Trump, Bush wasn't a good president but at least he did not go out of his way to persecute others AND fill his cabinet with white supremacists, and colluded with the Russian government to influence our elections, all of this happening in the span of a month. but please,do tell minorities how good we have it under Trump.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Like Trump is obviously terrible and disastrous and will probably wreak havoc on all of us, the fallout of which will hurt us for a long time. I just think the "Bush was a decent person" posts are stupid because there's a direct line from Bush to Trump.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the investigations, it sounded more like they started the war based on incredibly faulty intelligence. I'm very much convinced Bush believed the threats of WMD were credible, however untrue. Even Democrats at the time were convinced they existed. The U.K. and Tony Blair in particular were also pushing hard for it as well and sharing similar "intelligence", lest we forget.
"According to the CIA's report, all U.S. intelligence experts agree that Iraq is seeking nuclear weapons. There is little question that Saddam Hussein wants to develop nuclear weapons." - John Kerry
In fact, the Iraqi Intelligence Commission, which concluded that the United States Intelligence Community was wrong in almost all of its pre-war judgments about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction and was a major intelligence failure, was created by Bush himself to look into the intelligence they were given.
Granted, he was still the damn president, and he defends his war. And, don't get me wrong, Saddam was a madman. The total number of Iraqis killed by the security services of Saddam's government in various purges and genocides is unknown, but the lowest estimate is 250,000. He had used WMD on his own people before.
All this is to say I don't think Bush was outright "evil", but there's no question the whole administration bungled their intelligence from top to bottom, and then when caught with their pants down doubled-down on all the other reasons for invading Iraq, even if the "main reason" was revealed to be nothing but hot air.
TRUMP, on the other hand... This is a man with a pathological hatred of Muslims (and other minorities), who is obsessed with war and "winning" again, who is divorced from human empathy and who has advocated countless, unquestionable war crimes throughout his campaign and presidency. He's emotionally and temperamentally unhinged and consumed with power and a desire to show off his military might, practically goading the rest of the world for an excuse to do so. He's threatened to send in forces to round up immigrants, to "fix" Detroit, to "fix" Mexico's problems for them against their will, to not just kill terrorists but to kill their FAMILIES as well, to ask the FBI multiple times "why we can't just use nuclear weapons", etc.
He's a terrifying world leader who views the military like a child views plastic army men. For all his foibles, I genuinely believe Bush did what he felt was best and the toll of human life was something he took gravely seriously.
As opposed to, you know, mocking POWs and Gold Star parents in the midst of their grief while trying to eradicate everything their son fought and died for.
The elements pushing for war in the NeoCon right were there long before Bush became a candidate. (People mad that his father did the right thing in the Gulf War) I don't think he himself was driving this, he was surrounded by people who were telling him this shit and he bought into what everyone around him was selling.
No one's saying Bush is a "good guy", they're saying it's good that he spoke up about this because of how much Trump continues to wage a war against the media. I imagine if H.W. said this, people would be less likely to miss the point: The media plays an important role in holding the president and his administration accountable for everything they say and do. To call the New York Times, CNN and so on "fake" and excluding outlets critical of Trump from the White House while raising up alt-right tabloid trash like Breitbart is a dangerous abuse of the president's power.
Point being, when Dubya is calling you out over anything, you know you've made a mistake. Bigly.
old manatee
Banned
lol Bush literally called it a holy war. He said that God told him to invade Iraq. Tell me more about how Trump is so much worse.
While bush was awful, trying to dismantle our institutions is a whole nother level.
Bush/cheney did some fucked up shit but mostly according to the fucked up "rules" that had already been established
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
If you had told me a year ago that I'd miss George W. Bush, I'd've peed on you.
Now, I'd let Trump pee on me if we could swap him out for GWB.
Now, I'd let Trump pee on me if we could swap him out for GWB.
polyh3dron
Banned
"state secrets"
Valerie Plame
bombing al-jazeera
sure, dubs.
can't wait to see trump's scathing response tweet. you know it's coming.
Valerie Plame
bombing al-jazeera
sure, dubs.
can't wait to see trump's scathing response tweet. you know it's coming.
"The worst ever president (besides Obama) George Bush claims the media is important, look at what we ended up with. 8 years!"
Host Samurai
Member
I still feel it's crazy that he got a 2nd term. I don't remember much back than but I didn't think Kerry was that bad of a choice.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Fuck Bush.
He's right, but Fuck Bush.
He's right, but Fuck Bush.
uncredited male
Member
I am glad he is saying these things.
But I can't ignore that a lot of the shit we are currently dealing with is rooted in some of his actions.
But I can't ignore that a lot of the shit we are currently dealing with is rooted in some of his actions.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
like others have said, when dubba is the voice of reason, things have gone to shit. Good lord. Glad he is saying this out loud though.
p.s. he was still a shit president.
p.s. he was still a shit president.
Spladam
Member
Bush and Cheney were manufacturing this bad intel themselves, and then "leaking" it. Do you remember the U.N. presentation by Colin Powell, where white house legal council and aids doctored the CIA analyst reports, and gave Powell bad intel that linked Sadam to Al Queda. Powell quit because of that, he had been lied to, and the analyst who wrote the reports he used claimed is was not their work that was read there.
There was much more, but seriously, the "oops, it was bad intel, CIA's fault" was a copout used to avoid responsibility.
The Frontline that I believe covered much of this.
Edit: Yeah, it's all in that Frontline, with markers in the video for navigating them.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
wow sure glad the media helped keep Bush in check, imagine what could've happened if they hadn't been there to try and counter his agenda
Frozenprince
Banned
I mean W was a bad president but by all accounts he's a pretty decent human being.
Trump ain't.
poppedcollar69
Member
Lawful evil versus chaotic evil?
Cow Mengde
Banned
This.
What you talking about, dude. It is clearly chaotic good vs chaotic evil.
This. I wonder how well people who are posting about Bush being OK remember his presidency. The fact that he and his brains were embarrassed enough by their actions to try and hide them does not excuse them.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Trump isn't nearly as bad as Bush yet. Closing some borders and planning to build a wall hardly compares to obliterating the Middle East...
We're 1 month in. And whereas I believe our involvement in 9/11 was just funding the Taliban & incompetently handling the region for over a decade, I expect the current administration to actually fabricate a terror attack to justify a war.
This doesn't excuse Bush for everything atrocious he did, but comparatively speaking he wasn't 1/10th as bad as what we're seeing now. Even if the Cheney/Bannon comparisons are flagrant.
The Albatross
Member
The truth of this is a lot more complex than the distilled, simplified narrative:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
I don't think that GWB was a good president, I voted against him, but he didn't make up evidence of Iraqi weapons. He used evidence from the UN and other agencies to justify starting a war with the goal of regime change, which was wrong.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
I hated W with a passion. But somehow it's hard to be angry at him these days. Don't know why.
Objectively, I am not sure though, which will be deemed the worse president in history books, yet.
Everybody who is saying Trump is not really thinking things through, I'd say.
Trump did a lot of shit already, but hasn't started a couple of wars from which we can still feel the consequences (ISIS, Syria, etc)...
Objectively, I am not sure though, which will be deemed the worse president in history books, yet.
Everybody who is saying Trump is not really thinking things through, I'd say.
Trump did a lot of shit already, but hasn't started a couple of wars from which we can still feel the consequences (ISIS, Syria, etc)...
Ah yes, George W. Bush one of the vanguard of the fake news movement, whose government made over 900 false statements regarding the War in Iraq, who had the media positively salivating over his violent actions in the Mid-East.
He can go fuck off, he doesn't have a shred of credibility to speak on this subject and his actions have so much to do with the state of the world we currently inhabit.
This is from a Pulitzer winning investigative nonpartisan, nonprofit investigative news organizations.
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2008/01/23/5641/false-pretenses
He can go fuck off, he doesn't have a shred of credibility to speak on this subject and his actions have so much to do with the state of the world we currently inhabit.
This is from a Pulitzer winning investigative nonpartisan, nonprofit investigative news organizations.
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2008/01/23/5641/false-pretenses
he also provided the model of disaster response that the trump administration will almost certainly follow. they even have a lot of the same people involved: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/24/get-ready-for-the-first-shocks-of-trumps-disaster-capitalism/
hurricane katrina by itself is enough to condemn the entire bush administration. in no sense was he ever a decent man.
hurricane katrina by itself is enough to condemn the entire bush administration. in no sense was he ever a decent man.
Trump is trying to dismantle America and rebuild it in his own sociopathic, power hungry image that might destabilize the country and the world. How is that not worse?
old manatee
Banned
Ah yes, George W. Bush one of the vanguard of the fake news movement, whose government made over 900 false statements regarding the War in Iraq, who had the media positively salivating over his violent actions in the Mid-East.
He can go fuck off, he doesn't have a shred of credibility to speak on this subject and his actions have so much to do with the state of the world we currently inhabit.
This is from a Pulitzer winning investigative nonpartisan, nonprofit investigative news organizations.
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2008/01/23/5641/false-pretenses
Thank you
poppedcollar69
Member
Teddy is chaotic good. Abe is lawful good and Washington is neutral good.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
One might say that jeb is a big fat mess...I hope the Bushs continue to throw shade at Trump.
At least the Bushs who actually did something.
jebis too much of a loser to throw decent shade.
D.Lo
Member
How do we have that with Trump? What war has Trump started?
Until Trump invades a major sovereign state based on lies he cannot be worse than Bush.
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