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[andythinkpad]

Except yes, EU citizens are all allowed to go live and work in Germany and other countries if they wish. A right that 51% of the UK decided to throw away. I'm in the camp that believes between countries of similar status there should be less migration regulations. Are you a right winger by any chance? And lol at people on a liberal leaning forums using far right talking points like 'liar press'.

Are you saying it's ok for people on this forum to use left leaning talking points?

 

[Milchjon]

This is a discussion on the level of base propaganda and media spin. The consequences of this war are affecting Europe and it is a war. There is no military invasion of Europe but that does not mean that there is no war.

This is now officially the most ridiculous thread I've read on GAF all month.

 

[L.O.R.D]

Have you ever heard of occam'rs razor?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

nope,never heard of it,look like it need long read.

can you give me the summery of it?

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Are you saying it's ok for people on this forum to use left leaning talking points?

I specifically mentioned 'far-right'. I don't give a shit if someone is a centre leftist or a centre rightist.

 

[Sakujou]

The safety of German citizens should be paramount to everything else. Might not be politically correct but that's how it should be.

what is a german citizen?
yesterday i was partying with a few friends, when all of a sudden some weeaboos came out of nowhere and told i should go back to my country.

iam german.

my parents come from south asia in the 80s to germany, so wtf.

iam so sad to here this kind of violence happening in germany. german police has to become more strict about this.

i dont want a police state but thanks to those people we will end up with this shit.

 

[Jacobi]

nope,never heard of it,look like it need long read.

can you give me the summery of it?

Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

 

[ElTorro]

can you give me the summery of it?

The less unnecessary assumptions you make, the more probable your explanation is. Hence, an explanation with a minimal set of assumptions is preferable to every other explanation with more assumptions.

Every assumption for which there is no evidence or argument supporting or undermining it has an epistemic probability of 50%. Consequently, since combined probabilities are multiplied, adding that assumption unnecessarily to your explanation will halve the probability of your explanation being true.

 

[SporeCrawler]

So afd is already calling it a terrorist attack and saying that you should vote for them. Just like they did a few minutes after the munich shootings.
I For myself am not going to vote for them though

 

[kcp12304]

I'm not sure what your point is. Is it racist to point out that the crime rate of African Americans is higher than the national average? Or is it racist to point out the same without any data to back it up?

Anyhow, your analogy is rather poorly chosen.

But I share your sentiment, I'd like to see some recent data regarding refugee crime.

In an American context, White nationalists/American Conservatives often have a laundry list of African American crime statistics that they love to cite. Of course, these statistics are missing important context like the overall rate of crime or socioeconomic factors and are used to imply that African Americans are more violent. Like they should as a whole be treated with suspicion. When called out on this, they say "Fact can't be racists amrite". I've seen this happen for ages.

That's why many balk at people saying group X is more prone to crime because it has been used to imply that group X are all dangerous or mostly dangerous. As if crime or violence is an immutable characteristic of group X. It helps create an Us vs. them dilemma.

 

[Corto]

nope,never heard of it,look like it need long read.

can you give me the summery of it?

Usually when you have a problem with two explanations the simplest one is the right one.

But Mencken also said that when we have a complex problem there's usually a very clear, simple...and wrong solution. So there's always something for everyone.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

iam so sad to here this kind of violence happening in germany. german police has to become more strict about this.

i dont want a police state but thanks to those people we will end up with this shit.

That's a bit hyperbolic. And by "a bit" I mean "extremely"

 

[Milchjon]

nope,never heard of it,look like it need long read.

can you give me the summery of it?

Basically, if there's several possible explanations for something, choose the most likely one/the one that doesn't depend on a complex set of other things having happened.

It's a nice neutral approach that's mostly devalued in extreme debates by people not being able to agree on likelihoods.

 

[Phantast2k]

Taking him out would have still brought us where we are today. We never should have supported the up rising.

This is the correct answer.

It is not the correct answer. Our support came when Assad was already barrel bombing / gassing his people.
The support should've ensued much faster when FSA was by far the largest rebel faction. At the very least a no-fly zone should've been established.

Most of the refugees are fleeing from Assad, not from ISIS.

 

[L.O.R.D]

Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

oh,i think i heard about this few days go.
it's like now,some people are broadcasting over wattsapp and facebook that Pokemon GO is the work or the western people to spy on us and make us take a photo for every place and it will take our videos and contacts...etc.
and the another assumption is they just have a product to sell it.
thanks.

but that's still an assumption in the end.

even here there are spies for the syrian government in saudi arabia taking the syrian passports and selling them or taking out any one how oppose to assad.

 

[Phantast2k]

The woman was Polish. Seems like he had been in love with her:

„Er ist mit dem Hackmesser durch das Restaurant gerannt und hat es über dem Kopf geschwungen“, sagt Mohammad Alhelo. Der 20-jährige Kollege des Täters war gerade dabei den Getränkeautomat mit Cola aufzufüllen, als der Amokläufer sich das Messer geschnappt hatte und damit um sich schlug. „Ich hatte Angst und bin weggerannt“, erzählt Alhelo. Er beschreibt den Täter als einen freundlichen Kerl, der vor eineinhalb Jahren allein aus Syrien nach Deutschland gekommen sei. Er habe sich in dem Lokal in die Frau verliebt, die er nun getötet habe, sagt Alhelo. „Sie war Polin und hat bei uns das Geschirr abgeräumt.“

http://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/i...zte.3f0c9431-da4e-4fb9-97e8-f0aed507cefb.html

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I mean, go ahead, I won't stop you from doing it.
But I fail to see how me supporting stricter punishments for police-known criminals who commit acts of violence negatively impacts your brother's safety/life.


Is it confirmed that the woman was pregnant?

I was referring to posts that said Germany should prioritize their citizens safety first.

 

[diamount]

You are always going to get a crazy slip through the cracks. But this would be a complete non-story if a native German did it, everyone would agree he was a psychopath who needs locking up and the key thrown away. Now it's people on here saying it's a war. People say left leaning are fantasists?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

but that's still an assumption in the end.

It is. But in this case, the simplest assumption is, that this guy was just insane. That's not necessarily true and there might very well be more to it, we don't know (yet). But before jumping to the conclusion that he was an IS spy it's often wise to stick with the simplest assumption until proven otherwise.

 

[SystemBug]

When people say that even if my father was a maoist, I have a Christian first name but I am Muslim because of my origin, I have an issue.
When people kills girls in the backwater of my dad family country, I have issue.
When it start to appears here in Europe, I have a big issue with that.
Sorry for lashing out.

But it's not like women aren't killed in western countries, in large numbers I might add as well.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

The woman was Polish. Seems like he had been in love with her:


http://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/i...zte.3f0c9431-da4e-4fb9-97e8-f0aed507cefb.html

So it was domestic violence (murder).

edit: or not. Only says he loved her and they were collegues, not that they have been a couple.

 

[Kurtofan]

Taking him out would have still brought us where we are today. We never should have supported the up rising.

we never supported the uprising, not in a meaningful way.

 

[LNBL]

What have you done Merkel?

Thought you were joking since we always have people here on Gaf screaming that in these kind of threads, but you were serious

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

So it was domestic violence (murder).

edit: or not. Only says he loved her and they were collegues, not that they have been a couple.

So he had a job then? And it sounds like this guy went insane and killed people. I don't understand why someone would do that to someone they claim to 'love'.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Other countries feeling effects from a war doesn't mean that they are "at war". Saying there is a war in Europe is nothing but propaganda.

These countries are involved in the war. At the very least there are the moral considerations of your nations involvement even if there are no purely selfish reasons to be concerned like ration cards or draft notices to worry about in your daily life.

 

[Lucumo]

However, refugees need to be helped so the innocent don't suffer. That is why we should have helped them mostly in the region itself where possible and go through the UN to make a fair distribution off them towards Europe, the US and other countries capable of helping instead of having only a few carry an unfair burden, which we are now seeing the results of throughout Europe.

Yep, exactly this.

- going to Sweden or Germany doesn't make you a war refugee, it makes you an economic migrant most of the time (as was already stated in the thread) because there are other alternatives which make a lot of sense when you are simply fleeing from war

And of course the safety of your own citizens should be the first priority of any government. That doesn't mean a country shouldn't strive to do more than just that, but those activities should not endanger the lives of your own citizens. That simply isn't sustainable. I don't know what some people in here who say otherwise are smoking.

Completely baffled by this as well.

 

[Boozeroony]

It's a clash of cultures. Add the fact that the EU was not prepared for this, while this influx of people was already expected.

Mostly young men, possibly traumatized by war, coming from a society that is culturally 500 years behind western society. At least regarding human rights in general and women rights in particular, religion and democracy.

We need to take the refugees, but we also need to make clear that here in the West things are different than in the middle-east. They have to earn their stay, but society should provide chances for education and jobs. This is the only way the refugees will be part of society in the long run.

Let's not pamper refugees and treat them like nothing is expected from them. Stimulate those who are eager to learn and work. Those who don't want to should face consequences. A healthy determination to succeed should be part of both society and the refugees.

 

[diaspora]

The safety of German citizens should be paramount to everything else. Might not be politically correct but that's how it should be.

A German citizen went apeshit with a gun how many days ago?

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Yep, exactly this.

- going to Sweden or Germany doesn't make you a war refugee, it makes you an economic migrant most of the time (as was already stated in the thread) because there are other alternatives which make a lot of sense when you are simply fleeing from war


Completely baffled by this as well.

A sensible refugee scheme would have them be temporarily housed by the UN in a safe spot and applications for asylum would be handled at the EU level and distributed everywhere. Instead they are allowed to country shop. Country shopping isn't acceptable if you're a refugee as opposed to a jobseeker, though I do to some extent empathize with them because they only want a good life for themselves and their families. Overall I believe the mainstream parties need to learn from the mistakes of the past year or so and fine better ways to handle things in general. Thankfully this is already happening somewhat like in Sweden where they instituted tougher requirements for asylum.

 

[The Incarnation]

It's a clash of cultures. Add the fact that the EU was not prepared for this, while this influx of people was already expected.

Mostly young men, possibly traumatized by war, coming from a society that is culturally 500 years behind western society. At least regarding human rights in general and women rights in particular, religion and democracy.

We need to take the refugees, but we also need to make clear that here in the West things are different than in the middle-east. They have to earn their stay, but society should provide chances for education and jobs. This is the only way the refugees will be part of society in the long run.

Let's not pamper refugees and treat them like nothing is expected from them. Stimulate those who are eager to learn and work. Those who don't want to should face consequences. A healthy determination to succeed should be part of both society and the refugees.

Barely 100 years off gassing the Jews. Don't get too ahead of yourself.

 

[Boozeroony]

Barely 100 years off gassing the Jews. Don't get too ahead of yourself.

🤔

 

[The Incarnation]

🤔

You're not that culturally superior. Certainly not by 500 years.

Based on the reply, pretty much on the same level when it comes to introspection.

 

[diaspora]

Barely 100 years off gassing the Jews. Don't get too ahead of yourself.

lol barely past 70 years

 

[Shiggy]

Barely 100 years off gassing the Jews. Don't get too ahead of yourself.

Wtf!?

 

[Boozeroony]

You're not that culturally superior. Certainly not by 500 years.

Based on the reply, pretty much on the same level when it comes to introspection.

Name me 3 countries in the ME that has similar human rights compared to germany. Ok, name me 2... well, ok, 1!

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Middle Eastern society is more like 100-150 years behind. Certainly not 500, though. Except the extremists, though. Their attitudes are definitely 500 years behind. It's not THAT long ago since human rights weren't a concept to even think about to Westerners.

 

[The Incarnation]

Name me 3 countries in the ME that has similar human rights compared to germany. Ok, name me 2... well, ok, 1!

Nevermind your laws. It's about what it in hearts of the people. The comment sections of various newspaper websites will give you some indication to that.

Barely evolved to treat blacks like humans yet. Culturely 500 years ahead my arse.

 

[Nivash]

A sensible refugee scheme would have them be temporarily housed by the UN in a safe spot and applications for asylum would be handled at the EU level and distributed everywhere. Instead they are allowed to country shop. Country shopping isn't acceptable if you're a refugee as opposed to a jobseeker, though I do to some extent empathize with them because they only want a good life for themselves and their families. Overall I believe the mainstream parties need to learn from the mistakes of the past year or so and fine better ways to handle things in general. Thankfully this is already happening somewhat like in Sweden where they instituted tougher requirements for asylum.

The only reason they are "allowed" to "country shop" is because they're not allowed to either apply for asylum to the EU as a whole or apply for any given EU country without first entering said country. The reason for this is simple - it puts up geographical barriers between the wealthy western EU countries and the conflict zones which used to prevent most refugees from reaching us.

Then the Syrian war happened and the pure number of refugees ballooned. First, Turkey and Lebanon got swamped by millions of refugees. Without them being able to care for more, a large number of refugees were pushed further west into the Balkan states, which also couldn't or didn't want to care for them. Then they moved further into western Europe and at this point, having travelled so far already, there's no real reason for them not to pick the country where they have friends or family or that respects the right to asylum the best. Hence, "country shopping". We chose this system to keep them out, and now we're complaining when they follow our rules in a way we don't like.

But when you look at where the refugees actually ended up, you'll see that it's actually an obvious gradient with most remaining close to the conflict zones. As can be expected when the reason they continue west mostly has to do with the closer countries getting overwhelmed.

They're doing exactly what we asked them to: get here before applying for asylum. That doesn't mean they're economic refugees, it just means we have a shitty asylum policy - because surely you're not suggesting that the EU should provide for no refugees just because we don't directly border a conflict zone? Providing for refugees is a global responsibility and it should fall especially heavily on our shoulders because we're the greatest economic power in the region.

 

[Boozeroony]

Middle Eastern society is more like 100-150 years behind. Certainly not 500, though. Except the extremists, though. Their attitudes are definitely 500 years behind.

Ok. 500 years is a bit much.

 

[Shiggy]

Nevermind your laws. It's about what it in hearts of the people. The comment sections of various newspaper websites will give you some indication to that.

Barely evolved to treat blacks like humans yet. Culturely 500 years ahead my arse.

Forgot that Germans keep black people as animals. Just wondering, you don't live here, do you? We don't even have many black people here.

 

[ohyouagain]

Forgot that Germans keep black people as animals. Just wondering, you don't live here, do you? We don't even have many black people here.

Can we just stop with this shit convesation ? It´s non sensical to begin with. No need to sustain it.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This thread took a weird turn.

 

[oti]

Really? That's just from one day:
http://www.freiezeiten.net/19-juli-asylsommer-2016-dutzende-angriffe-auf-frauen

what the hell is this website?

 

[nampad]

Forgot that Germans keep black people as animals. Just wondering, you don't live here, do you? We don't even have many black people here.

We did some atrocities over in Namibia.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Ok. 500 years is a bit much.

Not like a lot of people in Europe or the world are particularly progressive either. The fact that lots of people take Trump, AfD, UKIP, Geert Wilders, Sweden Democrats etc. seriously and think they're 'rational' people who only 'love their country' is proof of that.

 

[The Incarnation]

Forgot that Germans keep black people as animals. Just wondering, you don't live here, do you? We don't even have many black people here.

And here me thinking THE WESTERN WORLD being culturely 500 years ahead of the whole Middle East just was on about Germany.

 

[ClosingADoor]

someone drove him insane,or he was spy from ISIS which they got payed from the syrian government to sabotage the reputation of the refugee so European country wont take any one of them .

i've seen some of the Syrian government loyalist from the national syrian TV and how they speak about the refugees as they are traitors and must be killed by any means because they left the country.

I think that is a bit far fetched. It is most like a guy who went crazy for whatever reason. And that is on him, nobody else.

 

[Boozeroony]

Not like a lot of people in Europe or the world are particularly progressive either. The fact that lots of people take Trump, AfD, UKIP, Geert Wilders, Sweden Democrats etc. seriously and think they're 'rational' people who only 'love their country' is proof of that.

Not saying the west is perfect, but we got some basic level of human rights. You can be gay here and not get the leash.

 

[MistakenMobius]

But it's not like women aren't killed in western countries, in large numbers I might add as well.

we have large number of women culturally murdered in Europe?

 

[diamount]

we have large number of women culturally murdered in Europe?

WTF does 'culturally' murdered mean?

 

[Majorzero]

Not saying the west is perfect, but we got some basic level of human rights. You can be gay here and not get the leash.

If only the West could have that progressive mindset with their foreign policy.