Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen

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ramuh said:
I'm curious. When the conflict in the area where they are claiming asylum from (warzone, etc) gets it's feet and and order is restored, aren't refugees suppose to be returned to their country of origin?
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It depends on so many things, you won't get a clear cut answer - you have to go case by case. What status do they have? How long have they been living here? Are there any criminal record? Do they have family here? And even if they don't get permission to stay, they can lawyer up and prolonge their stay.

Judging by past experience, refugees are willing to go back and help building up their country of origin - under the condition of being able to return to their former asylum country if things don't go well. Which normally means naturalization and getting the citizenship.

Lots of times, it's stupid to force people going back. There's a high possibility that they will flee to an other area stay here illegally. And it's economically unreasonable to send those back who got work here or have opened a business. All things considered, I think we shouldn't waste money on sending people back by force and instead invest money on foreign help and foreign business.
 
Grep said:
Well done for Hungary for taking such serious policy towards refugees, or should I say economic migrants.

Instead of going to to FIRST neighboring county (which is culturally, religiously and linguistically close to these economic migrants), refugees are targeting Germany and Sweden. Something is rotten here.
Click to expand...

Cough

Cough

Cough

Really people?
 
Meanwhile, on the Hungary-Serbia border: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrpwAEMe0c

Some deets according to a hungarian poster on /r/europe


First: to make it clear, two border crossing roads (Roszke I and II) have been closed down for vehicles, because migrants sat down on the road. Migrants can hand in their asylum request at these two places. There are 2 other border crossing points are working as usual.
This was at Roszke II. official border crossing point
This is a few hundred meters from the main crossing point on the highway, where people yesterday started the hunger strike
This is where migrants came first after the fence was closed at the railtrack
At 1 pm migrants gave an ultimatum to the Hungarian authorities: "You let us in or we tear down the gate and go in!"
Later the migrants grew restless, started chanting, throwing stuff and finally attacked the gate around 3 pm.
The police responded with tear gas and water cannons
The Counter Terrorism Center sent reenforcements in armoured cars
A military helicopter arrived
The military is supposedly moving that way, but no firm information on that
According to earlier reports there were only a few hundred migrants (1000 tops) at that border crossing point. Hungarian police is used to handle a lot larger aggressive crowds

Updates:

Serbian police is present, haven´t intervened yet, watching the show
Hungarian MFA contacted the Serbian counterpart, no firm answer on whether the Serbian police will intervene
The gate is closed again
250-300 people are actually rioting, the rest moved further away from the border
Everyone started to run to the gate, they thought the border is open. No more rioting.
15-20 TV channels are present, even from Brazil
The serbian police walked up to the fence (without riot gear), standing between the fence and the migrants and trying to calm them down. (A few migrants are trying to convince others to restart the riot)
Serbian minister of Labor and Social Affairs, Aleksandar Vulin, is present on the border and is asking the migrants to get into buses that will take them to the Serbian-Croatian border. A few hundred people started to walk away from the crossing point.
A women started to give birth during the clash.
Gate was opened again by migrants, new clash started, Serbian police had to hide.
Two kids were thrown over the fence (by parents?, some grown ups) close to the gate, they got hurt seriously, they were put in a Hungarian ambulance. Other kids have been hurt when people ran back from the gate towards Serbia.
14 Hungarian policemen hurt, two had to be taken to hospital. Rioting migrants used pepper spray too, not just rocks.
Only 50 people rioting
Serbian police is trying to ask people to get on buses.
The riot died down.
Serbian police (without riot gear) is between migrants and the gate again. The place is calm.
It seems things calmed down finally. If anything new happens I´ll add.
Migrants are slowly leaving the place, 2 guys left at the gate.
Unconfirmed: A rioter - Hungarian police has caught - is a known terrorist. Confirmed news: one rioter who was inciting others to attack the Hungarian police was caught. What he did constitutes terrorism according to Hungarian law.
Serbian police is handing out leaflets with a map showing how to get to the Croatian border.
Further from the border food and water arrived, migrants started to fight.
A Serbian TV crew was hurt by Hungarian police at the gate.
Serbian MIA is sending reenforcements to the Hungarian-Serbian border to prevent migrants going to the border fence/gates in the future.
Everything calm, refugees back to the outskirts of the closest Serbian village, no one at the gate. People eating, talking, resting.
More and more refugees are arriving slowly to Roszke II. Many still hope they will be able to go through here, and they don´t have to take the long way through Croatia or Romania.
Click to expand...
 
Tacitus_ said:
Meanwhile, on the Hungary-Serbia border: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrpwAEMe0c

Some deets according to a hungarian poster on /r/europe
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I'm actually pretty amazed by how patient the Hungarian and Serbian police have been in this situation for now. Seems like it can get real ugly if this happens a few more times.

Very worrying we see people trying to create riots also and there seem to be known terrorists involved.

What a mess this is. But the people coming here really aren't helping their case by rioting like this. A couple of scenes like that and the EU opinion can shift a whole lot again.

Beefy said:
Could this lead to a EU break up?
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No. The economic benefits of the EU are too large for most European countries to even consider that.
 
MonorailCat said:
They cut out all of the refugee rioting and just showed the retaliation of the hungary border control so that the hungarians look like the bad guys and all the refugees were victims.
Feels great being forced to pay 17€ a month for propaganda.
Click to expand...

I guess you are new to Western medias ? Same thing about Ukrain, Syria, the economy, etc. The amount of official lies we are being told is astonishing.
 
Thousands of migrants/refugees are crossing Croatia and are being escorted into detention centers where they will be processed.

Few hundred already arrived on Croatia-Slovenia border, but they were taken off the train and they do not want to give any IDs to Slovenian police, so they will be probably returned to Croatia. My friend works in police forces and he is being transferred to the border for 'undisclosed time'. He is also member of special police forces...

Also due to growing cases of nationalism on web comments, almost all Slovenian web portals disabled commenting sections under news with this theme.
 
DrM said:
Few hundred already arrived on Croatia-Slovenia border, but they were taken off the train and they do not want to give any IDs to Slovenian police, so they will be probably returned to Croatia. My friend works in police forces and he is being transferred to the border for 'undisclosed time'. He is also member of special police forces...
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I'm getting the impressions the EU is going to let Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, Romania, Czech Republic, etc, close off the borders, while we in the West will all point fingers about how terrible they are, while secretly kind of glad we don't have to deal with the mess anymore.
 
so there is a lot going on in this thread. i haven't been following around but i am just curious.can some european with good objective information and not opinon let me know

what is the legal framework with regards to refugees and eu?
is there a required number for acceptance?
is that legal framework tied to real consequences for the states refusing to take in refugees?

thank you in advance
 
Bala said:
so there is a lot going on in this thread. i haven't been following around but i am just curious.can some european with good objective information and not opinon let me know

what is the legal framework with regards to refugees and eu?
is there a required number for acceptance?
is that legal framework tied to real consequences for the states refusing to take in refugees?

thank you in advance
Click to expand...

The Dublin agreement states the EU country where the refugee arrives is the country to provide asylum. If the refugee then goes to another EU country that country will deport him or her back to the first country In the current situation that means Greece and Italy for most of them which is what neither the refugees or those governments want so like many other agreements Dublin is ignored and the refugees are put on the train to Germany.

Speaking of Germany, an Iraqi immigrant with a previous terrorism conviction was shot dead in Berlin today after stabbing a police officer in the neck.

rIRAgFY.jpg
 
I just find it funny how many people here are complaining about breaking Dublin III when in previous threads about cross-mediterranean migration everybody was in agreement that it's a shit idea used by the EU core (France, Germany, UK) to foist all the work on the periphery (Italy, Greece, to a degree Spain).

Refugees have needs beyond "not being shot at", they need shelter, food and a future (as in "when do we get out of this camp and what comes next"). These are necessary for human well-being, just sitting in a camp for many years with no hope will cause mental damage.

Anyway, other problems are arising:

The travel through Croatia makes the country worried about its minefields again, there are over 50k mines across Croatia left over from the last war. People traveling on foot may run into those.

Refugees traveling in Germany are apparently picking mushrooms and some ended up picking death caps. Those are exactly as nasty as they sound, eating even one is certain death without treatment. Theories are that they look like some edible mushrooms that grow in Syria and some agencies are preparing warning leaflets in arabic.
 
robb_w7 said:
One question i have, what the fuck is Saudi Arabia doing about this?

Why is one of the richest countries on the planet not taking in some of these people?
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The saudis on this board say that SA doesn't have an official refugee count because they just let Syrians cross the border freely so around 2.5M already fled to SA.

Dunno what that means in practice, whether those refugees would have to pay for a place to stay or if they receive aid.
 
Bala said:
so there is a lot going on in this thread. i haven't been following around but i am just curious.can some european with good objective information and not opinon let me know

what is the legal framework with regards to refugees and eu?
is there a required number for acceptance?
is that legal framework tied to real consequences for the states refusing to take in refugees?

thank you in advance
Click to expand...

In the EU you can apply as an asylum seeker, this application process can take years, if your accepted your are classed as a refugee and are able to then apply for a passport for what ever country you are in.

In the UK, asylum seekers are given what's called NASS accommodation provided by the home office while there application for asylum is considered. I think similar protocols are followed in other EU countries.

The issue is, these numbers of refugees are crippling the already over stretched service and especially in the UK, the lack of housing is a massive problem
 
National security council in Slovenia will held a urgent meeting in the morning - Slovenia is now next country in the Schengen area in which the refugee/migrant wave will hit. Croatia is not yet included into Schengen. So our police can send every refugee/migrant that will not provide ID or won't comply with border procedures back to Croatia.

Some refugees got interviewed for commerical TV station near Zagreb and they were asked if they would stay in Slovenia. Reply : "No no no, Germany, Slovenia too poor for us"
Red Cross is ready for maximum number of 5000 people with three refugee camps near the border.

Croatian PM said that they will send refugees/migrants towards Hungary or Slovenia.
 
You can place all of these refugees in Europe, considering the number of countires in the EU and the size of them, these numbers are relatively small

The issue is that this sort of mass migration into already economically unstable countries causes a huge back lash from the native population, this then causes the rise is right wing groups.

The rise of fascism in Germany in the 20s and 30s was down to blaming others for the poor economic stability of the country
 
So we have a German police officer stabbed in the neck, violence being committed by refugees/migrants to get what they want and a German official telling local school girls not to wear skirts in case they are raped. Only a matter of time before people are killed and the whole thing blows up in Germany's face.
 
Miles Quaritch said:
Hmm.

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...syrian-refugees-german-school-bans-miniskirts
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Don't try to stop the good fight with facts. Everything is happening now. Don't you know, the German police woman was stabbed in the neck by a current refugee that was somehow condemned already in 2008 to prison for a plot to assassinate the former Iraqi prime minister Iyad Allawi during a visit to Berlin in 2004. But 2004, 2008, 2015 what does it matter? Anyhow they are all the same. /s
 
robb_w7 said:
You can place all of these refugees in Europe, considering the number of countires in the EU and the size of them, these numbers are relatively small
Click to expand...
That depends on how you look at it. A lot of countries are not willing to contribute relative to their economies and size. And a lot of refugees don't want to stay in certain countries. That suddenly leaves a lot smaller population to take care of these refugees.

Considering they costs somewhere between 10 and 25.000 euros a year, which will need to be paid for the foreseeable future, and then taking into account the stats of how many people from those regions already here are still on welfare, money is going to be a problem.

You can take in refugees, but you can't expect countries to carry that burden for years and maybe decades to come.

Add to that the integration issues that will surely rise up (even if with a minority) and support for taking care of refugees among the local population will not be good.
 
MonorailCat said:
Fuck the german media.
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-117253.html

They cut out all of the refugee rioting and just showed the defense of the hungary border control so that the hungarians look like the bad guys and all the refugees were victims.
Feels great being forced to pay 17€ a month for propaganda.
Click to expand...

I don't see the problem here. There are some violence against the hungarian border and likewise violence against the protesters in there report.
 
MisterFalcon said:
The Dublin agreement states the EU country where the refugee arrives is the country to provide asylum. If the refugee then goes to another EU country that country will deport him or her back to the first country In the current situation that means Greece and Italy for most of them which is what neither the refugees or those governments want so like many other agreements Dublin is ignored and the refugees are put on the train to Germany.

Speaking of Germany, an Iraqi immigrant with a previous terrorism conviction was shot dead in Berlin today after stabbing a police officer in the neck.

rIRAgFY.jpg
Click to expand...

so this means that hungary to stay in the eu has to accept the refugees to stay in the eu?

and man so much trouble over syria. was assad really that bad of a guy that the western countries had to go in destabilize the region. or was it something of hes a sect of islam that couldn't be tolerated ?
 
Bala said:
so this means that hungary to stay in the eu has to accept the refugees to stay in the eu?

and man so much trouble over syria. was assad really that bad of a guy that the western countries had to go in destabilize the region. or was it something of hes a sect of islam that couldn't be tolerated ?
Click to expand...

At that point the west thought that if all these Middle East dictators were to be toppled without direct intervention it would be a good thing. Plus some of these were tradionally allies of russia, a double win.

But the west is ruled by morons who can't see 5 minutes in front, it is obvious what would happen in Libya but they went in anyway. And Syria wasn't some crazy sect of Islam, Islamists hated Assad because he didn't ram Islam down people's throats.
 
funkypie said:
At that point the west thought that if all these Middle East dictators were to be toppled without direct intervention it would be a good thing. Plus some of these were tradionally allies of russia, a double win.

But the west is ruled by morons who can't see 5 minutes in front, it is obvious what would happen in Libya but they went in anyway. And Syria wasn't some crazy sect of Islam, Islamists hated Assad because he didn't ram Islam down people's throats.
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so basically we caused this by screwing over a relatively secular dude because he was hanging around with the bratva?
 
Weren't we all allies with all kinds of scumbag dictators for decades? We traded with them, we invited them in our countries and ignored bad signs as if we were the Fifa.
 
MonorailCat said:
Fuck the german media.
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-117253.html

They cut out all of the refugee rioting and just showed the defense of the hungary border control so that the hungarians look like the bad guys and all the refugees were victims.
Feels great being forced to pay 17€ a month for propaganda.
Click to expand...

This is the heart of the beast that is The Western Media. Emotional blackmail and soaking empathy for all it's worth is a foundation for this decaying institution.

Because of the internet, blogs and everyone having a damn smartphone now, we are finally able to see behind the curtains. To see what "they" don't show us.

The few times I watch the CBC (or any Canadian media really) on certain topics, I know that I'm only getting a slanted snapshot of the whole picture.
 
Dictator93 said:
Cough

Cough

Cough

Really people?
Click to expand...

But that's fair argument. Sunni Arab refugees will be able to assimilate a lot more properly in predominately Sunni Arab countries. Specifically, the Gulf States!

However, that "economic migrants" remark is pretty awful.
 
KDR_11k said:
The saudis on this board say that SA doesn't have an official refugee count because they just let Syrians cross the border freely so around 2.5M already fled to SA.

Dunno what that means in practice, whether those refugees would have to pay for a place to stay or if they receive aid.
Click to expand...

They don't have an official count because they are not signatories to the UN convention in refugees. They would be obligated to offer to take them in if they were.

That figure was just nonsense PR. There is no way 2.5 million refugees are in Saudi Arabia. Only days before that figure was put out by some anonymous official the regional representative to the Gulf region at the UNHCR told the media there were 500,000 Syrians in Saudi Arabia. Don't know if that counts the Syrians who were already there pre 2011.

They have prepared 100,000 air conditioned tents for pilgrims which can accommodate 2-3 million people so they can take more refugees. Many refugees probably don't want to go there though, they much prefer the liberal secular West.
 
Croatia closed border crossings with Serbia, only the one on the highway Zagreb-Belgrade is open.

All international train traffic between Slovenia and other parts of former Yugoslavia has been shut down at 22:00 yesterday.
 
DrM said:
Croatia closed border crossings with Serbia, only the one on the highway Zagreb-Belgrade is open.

All international train traffic between Slovenia and other parts of former Yugoslavia has been shut down at 22:00 yesterday.
Click to expand...

Yeah. When is the thread title going to be updated to reflect the news of countries that are actually outright closing their borders to migrants.
8,000+ have entered Germany in the past 24 hours and they reaffirmed that they will take 800,000 this year.
 
Grep said:
Well done for Hungary for taking such serious policy towards refugees, or should I say economic migrants.

Instead of going to to FIRST neighboring county (which is culturally, religiously and linguistically close to these economic migrants), refugees are targeting Germany and Sweden. Something is rotten here.
Click to expand...

Are we ignoring that some of the neighboring countries are not accepting refugees, and other neighboring countries have accepted literally millions and the camps are overflowing?

We are? Cool. Just checking....
 
maquiladora said:
Yeah. When is the thread title going to be updated to reflect the news of countries that are actually outright closing their borders to migrants.
8,000+ have entered Germany in the past 24 hours and they reaffirmed that they will take 800,000 this year.
Click to expand...

It would be better to have a general thread talking about the refugee crisis. Pointing fingers about who is displaying the worst treatment of refugees is hardly constructive. Somehow, the European Commission, European Council, and the national parliaments have to find a balance between flooding Europe to the point of logistical breakdown and completely sealing off external borders (which is what we are looking at right now).

The way things are looking right now, and with current reactions from Hungary, it is only a matter of time until the Hungarian-Croatian is closed, likely followed by the Hungarian-Romanian one (although it is questionable that Hungry can completely close its entire Southern and Eastern borders). While it is tempting to assume that'll solve the problem, many will simply attempt more dangerous routes, instead.

Edit: I'm glad that we are at least seeing signs of stronger support for immediately affected countries like Turkey.
 
funkypie said:
And? Maybe they looked at Scandinavia and took note.
Click to expand...

And? Okay...

You made a very broad claim that a German official was telling local girls not to wear skirts, when in fact it's one school in one district and it's not a German official.

You do your side of the argument no favours by exaggerating or outright attempting to mislead people.
 
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