Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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I don't think you should be taking these comments literally.
those seeking asylum could be anyone. That's the point and that's why every country in the world has border policies. Simply opening the border is absolutely unworkable as has been proven in record time by Germany.
No doubt there's a lot of people who want to open their doors to children after seeing some of those photos but that's not how it works. You can just pluck the good ones out of the crowd like you're getting a dog from the pound. That sounds harsh but it's the reality of the situation. Everyone should be checked and go through the system.
That's factually false. Only Germany, Austria and Sweden fit into that definition. And probably Hungary against their will, but it's quite difficult to estimate how many did they actually register with asylum requests.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Honestly the way that presenter tried to bully and slander those callers was shameful.
ClosingADoor
Member
No, this is how the EU gets a centralized immigration system.
Has it already been mentioned that this is not the first time Germany temporarily suspended the Schengen treaty?
For instance, it was temporarily suspended during the G7 meet-up last May to improve security.
I am expecting the current situation to be the same. As officials say, it's done to give the Bavarian buffer regions some breathing space and recover their overrun logistics.
For instance, it was temporarily suspended during the G7 meet-up last May to improve security.
I am expecting the current situation to be the same. As officials say, it's done to give the Bavarian buffer regions some breathing space and recover their overrun logistics.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Germany made the mistake to open their doors, now all the refugees are on their way to germany and this stream doesn't just stop.
I mean, germany can't handle the situation alone, if europe wants to solve this crisis they all need to work together and every country needs to take in a fair share and then the individual countries and the EU need to work on a plan to integrate these people because if you don't you'll face many problems in the future.
I think germany thought when they come forward and announce they're taking in 800.000 people other countries would follow, but they didn't. And now Germany is fucked because everyone is rushing to germany and much more than 800.000 people are on their way.
Btw, 800.000 is already a lot. Its 1% of the population.
If the US would take in 1% of their population(3.2mil) in refugees from the middle east that would be no easy task either.
Edit: Some minister said he expects the boarder controls to last for a few weeks.
A few hours ago I heard a report on the radio that they already caught upwards of 30 people smugglers because of the boarder controls.
I mean, germany can't handle the situation alone, if europe wants to solve this crisis they all need to work together and every country needs to take in a fair share and then the individual countries and the EU need to work on a plan to integrate these people because if you don't you'll face many problems in the future.
I think germany thought when they come forward and announce they're taking in 800.000 people other countries would follow, but they didn't. And now Germany is fucked because everyone is rushing to germany and much more than 800.000 people are on their way.
Btw, 800.000 is already a lot. Its 1% of the population.
If the US would take in 1% of their population(3.2mil) in refugees from the middle east that would be no easy task either.
Edit: Some minister said he expects the boarder controls to last for a few weeks.
A few hours ago I heard a report on the radio that they already caught upwards of 30 people smugglers because of the boarder controls.
It's probably the point where Europe will start having more right wing political opinions. Announcing that they would take everybody was a huge mistake, it will fan the fascist movement.
Red Arremer
Member
Austria is instating military presence at the borders and stricter border controls.
https://derstandard.at/jetzt/livebe...ein-tausende-menschen-kommen-im-burgenland-an
I assume they will close the borders by the end of the week.
https://derstandard.at/jetzt/livebe...ein-tausende-menschen-kommen-im-burgenland-an
I assume they will close the borders by the end of the week.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Opinium Research, decent sample size (~2,000), I don't see any reason to doubt it really.
All the callers were misguided. "Emotional blackmail" is just another rationalization of saying "don't appeal to my sense of morals or empathy for other human beings" - Yes, people will die if nothing is done or walls are erected, that is the logical conclusion of saying you don't want to do with any of the Brown people fleeing from war and torture. Do you want to be a part of contributing to their deaths or try to do something? Obviously you can choose to erect walls, let people die, and arrest anyone trying to enter your super wealthy country, but the question is if you can live with that. That's not emotional blackmail, that's what being a human being is.
We do the exact same thing to Donald Trump here on GAF? Perhaps you could make the argument that radio hosts should be better people than GAF, but I don't see why we should respect hateful bigots who are in more need of therapy than a public platform.
If voters are willing to join fascist movements, I would criticize the voters rather than the politicians.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's quite the opposite. Take Germany out of the calculation as one of the few countries with a welcome culture and you can see how the other European countries implode.
Next week we will have the EU quota.
We have one for 120.000 lol also with a exception for GB and about 40% refugees again for germany lol... thats the kind of "balls" you can expect from EU politicans.
Hopefully you are right and they take a bit harder stance on countries that dont help out at all.
More Fun To Compute
Member
It can't be the same Donald Trump is a public figure and he is not talking to us in a way that we directly control the conversation. A more equivalent power dynamic would be like when people repeatedly phone up someone to harass them.
Anyway why do you say he is in need of therapy or a racist bigot? Language like this is not useful at all as it just makes you seem like you are not in control of your emotions and can't easily counter his arguments.
ClosingADoor
Member
People are also drowning in the ocean if we open the borders like we have done over the past years. Closing borders and bringing people over safely should be the solution. Not just open borders and letting human traffickers profit from this sad situation.
captainnapalm
Member
I can't help but feel big changes are in the offing. Something new has started. The whole narrative has swung now.
These kind of things are cyclical. Crysis happens, lot's of people die, dramatic TV/Newspapers pictures.
Give it one Year, maybe two, when the problem of integrating large amount of people with little Job opportunities and different culural values start and the narrative will be the same old again.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Well, there are about 500mil people in the EU, 80mil of them are in germany.
So a quota based on population alone would mean that 16% of all refugees should be taken in by germany.
Of course other factors need to play a role too, for example strengh of the economy, infrastructur etc.
So I guess germany 20-30% of the weight needs to be carried by germany at least.
Because these people are so detached from reality about this issue that they are incredibly hard to have a conversation with. They are so entrenched in their worldview that it's almost impossible to have a productive dialogue about reality. They think the world will collapse if anyone from a not-White country. You can just hear the timbre of their voices to hear how incredibly scared and fragile they are - that's why this is more of an issue with their mental well-being rather than an informed rational political viewpoint.
That being said, these people are not to blame for how they feel. Fear mongering by politicians, media hysteria, and late-capitalism are all responsible for this bullshit irrational hatred many Europeans have towards anyone from the Middle East or Africa.
Yes, totally agree with you. There needs to be a collective effort to make refugees travel to EU safely and let them apply for asylum. But it needs to be a collective effort, not just one country. That's why all the EU countries need to get their act together and start collaborating instead of looking out for themselves.
The refugee crisis in 1992 with the Balkans turned out fine for a lot of European countries. People need to cool their jets.
So where does germany send the refugees they already got so they can lower their number to that percentage?
Also as soon as you add in exceptions for countries like GB the whole thing becomes a bad joke anyway.
Thats why i hope the next try will not be so pathetic or if EU politicians have no balls to unified Europe in regards of a fair immigration policy then choose to close down borders it simply cant go on like this for another year with only a couple of countries having to deal with it all.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
How many refugees are there in total?
More Fun To Compute
Member
It's remarkable how much you know about this man just from the tone of his voice.
captainnapalm
Member
It's just interesting how the entire media narrative has changed. When even the Sun is running a piece meant to create sympathy for Syrian refugees, it seems clear there has been a swing in the kind of 'objective news' being pushed through the media.
I'm just at the point where I always see a hidden agenda in everything the mainstream media and politicians do. You have to think like these bastards do. So what could be the aim here. Maybe create further division between left and right and then set up a situation destined to fail (namely hundreds of thousands of unvetted immigrants struggling to assimilate in European countries already dealing with this very problem) which will, I guess, push people further to the right in the long run. Create more fear and division.
That's one theory, anyway.
Once the presenter questions why the first caller assumes they're rapists and murderers he starts yelling something about the presenter being a "pollyanna" who will be "put down". Certainly doesn't sound rational to me. Then again, that was a call-in show and people who actually call in to them tend to be almost universally unhinged in some way no matter what the topic.
I'm also amused by the people insisting on using the "taking a stranger into your home" metaphor for granting people asylum in their country, as if these things are remotely comparable.
It's just how the media reports crisis in foreign countries. They barely report anything until they get that one perfect story or even better, one perfect picture, and then they're all heart until the audience loses interest, after which it's business as usual. There's been one of those pictures in every war worth mentioning: the naked girl in Vietnam running from napalm bombings, the guy stopping a row of tanks in Tienanmen square, that Afghani girl on the National Geographic cover.
It's not a conspiracy. Hell, there isn't a government competent enough at intrigue in the west to pull something like that off even if they tried. People just seemingly need dramatic images to care about people they've never met and once they get them the public and the media narrative swings quickly, if temporarily. Not everything needs a qui bono analysis.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Oh my, the lack of self-awareness lol
TatteredHat
Member
I'm not opposed to taking in refugees, but the way things are being handled right now can not continue.
We need a unified EU policy to handling this whole situation.
We need to plan out contingencies for all the other refugees that will inevitably come over.
We need to vet/register the refugees when they enter the EU, right now we have no idea who is coming into the EU because the refugees aren't being registered until they're already in northern europe.
Finally, the priority should be on helping out women and children first, I'm not too keen filling up refugee centers with thousands of frustrated young men. Too high risk.
We'll have to accept that eventually countries are going to reach a breaking point when it comes to taking in more refugees, especially those like mine that have extensive social welfare systems set up which were never designed to support tens of thousands of low-opportunity refugees. I'm not about to let my country's social welfare system collapse because of refugees either.
We need a unified EU policy to handling this whole situation.
We need to plan out contingencies for all the other refugees that will inevitably come over.
We need to vet/register the refugees when they enter the EU, right now we have no idea who is coming into the EU because the refugees aren't being registered until they're already in northern europe.
Finally, the priority should be on helping out women and children first, I'm not too keen filling up refugee centers with thousands of frustrated young men. Too high risk.
We'll have to accept that eventually countries are going to reach a breaking point when it comes to taking in more refugees, especially those like mine that have extensive social welfare systems set up which were never designed to support tens of thousands of low-opportunity refugees. I'm not about to let my country's social welfare system collapse because of refugees either.
More Fun To Compute
Member
The presenter was clearly rephrasing what he said to throw it back at him to make him look more extreme that he was.
The taking refugees into homes thing is being covered in the media. The pope is recommending it and there and people signing up to schemes that facilitate it. It is a reasonable question to ask if there is much vetting for these schemes to make sure vulnerable people are not taking in people who could be potentially dangerous.
There are volunteers prepared to go that length but it's not recommended policy anywhere. The pope didn't recommend that at all, he suggested every Roman Catholic Parish take in a refugee family, not individual believers, because the parishes are likely to have more than enough buildings they can house people in that would be empty normally.
But that's besides the point. The caller was clearly using it as a metaphor for the UK accepting refugees. Or maybe he was talking literally, damned if I know, the program starts with the interview - but why should he care about other people taking risks? They know the risks. Him being concerned enough about the people willing to take in a refugee to call in to a radio show - people he's never met and has no reason to worry about - but not giving a damn about the refugees themselves seems even more unhinged than using it as a metaphor, to be honest.
Ninja Of Chaos
Member
Heh, who would have thought so many Europeans would be such natural Trump allies. Defending those callers? Really?
cripterion
Member
Aren't you forgetting about France? lol
timetokill
Banned
Well, you missed the point entirely.
When you phrase things in a black and white, "we must do everything we can and you must agree or you're essentially advocating death for children," it makes sense to show how that logic puts you yourself in a terrible position. When you trade in emotional pleas it's very easy to have them turned back on you.
The fallacy you're pointing out is the very one you're using. It was the entire reason I made that post. The fact that you don't see it is unfortunate.
Lime said:
If you listen again, the callers aren't saying they're all gonna be rapists/murderers/criminals/etc. They're saying that some could be, and the people being asked to have them in their homes don't know because people aren't being investigated first. Germany has already proven that simply throwing the doors open and saying, "Come on in!" is a terrible idea. It doesn't even have to be refugees. The point is if you took any random group of a million people and dumped them in an area and told the locals there, "You have to take these people in," people are going to wonder who the heck these people are. And the answer is, "We dunno." For many people that's not acceptable.
Saying people are being unreasonable for asking for an orderly, safe immigration process is not "fear-mongering." What's unacceptable is trying to make the issue a black-and-white, "either you agree to do anything and everything for immigrants or you're a murderous psychopath with blood on your hands who enjoys the sight of dead children" issue. The host on that show was basically saying to anybody who had an issue with the policy that if they had any reservations that they were "okay with kids dying." Come on.
Miles Quaritch
Member
So if I'm understanding this correctly, there's no source for the IS fighters being among the refugees but we're meant to believe it's a legit threat because....?
Because the refugees are Muslim and so are IS? Because Hungary is trying to do it's damnedest to make sure it's not seen as an uncaring country that treats refugees like they are less than human?
Doczu
Member
No, the Hungarian news station (M1 i think) reported on two IS caught in the neverending stream of refugees and because of that the police is on higher alert. But the goverment doesn't want to sow panic, so they don't confirm that the police is on high alert.
I hope it's true.
Liberty4all
Banned
I never said I supported the callers, however, it's clear the host had an agenda .... Callers complaining about emotional blackmail only to be emotionally blackmailed by the host ...
With that said the callers seem to fear refugees are not being vetted properly albeit the callers getting hyperbolic. Regardless given the mass numbers flooding in is this not a reasonable concern? I don't know what the answer is to be honest. I do think though the host countries populace deserve to have a say. The unfortunate truth is that I suspect that "say" will be to close the borders with force if nessecary. I'm not European though, what say you Euro-GAF on the front lines of this?
France? How many from the current wave of refugees has France taken?
Also I remember very well when couple years ago France suspended Schengen agreement because of the Lampedusa waves.
Edit: I found this on CNN, so take it as you want:
Kill Your Masters
Member
Pretty much. Not believing a thing coming out of fucking Hungary especially after the president/pm openly said they don't want any Muslims there.
ClosingADoor
Member
Hungarian border closed off
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...new-border-controls-crackdown-refugees-serbia
Hungary has finished its fence and closed the border. People are being turned away now. Human trafficking probably will be on the increase again soon then also.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...new-border-controls-crackdown-refugees-serbia
Hungary has finished its fence and closed the border. People are being turned away now. Human trafficking probably will be on the increase again soon then also.
Imagine how different it would be if some EU politicians actually would have put in some work at the beginning of the crisis and work out a refugee policy for all of europe instead of waiting and ignoring everything.
This has everything to do with the EU not being able to work out a fair refugee quota across Europe a complete embarrassment.
The one time EU politicians could actually prove to people why we need them and why they get paid from everyone and they ignore the problems, wait for the worst to happen and fail at pretty much everything. Expensive useless bigwigs.
This has everything to do with the EU not being able to work out a fair refugee quota across Europe a complete embarrassment.
The one time EU politicians could actually prove to people why we need them and why they get paid from everyone and they ignore the problems, wait for the worst to happen and fail at pretty much everything. Expensive useless bigwigs.
Spot on.
Just to make this clear: border controls do not mean we don't take any more refugees in.
They just want to make sure none of them go in unnoticed.
They don't stop them from entering, though.
De maiziere today suggested putting financial pressure on countries in the EU not willing to take in refugees.
While it may seem like a bully move from the most powerful country in the EU, they are the only ones who actually can provide that pressure for the refugee quota
(and no, Germany does not want to ship people off to other countries, they just want a fair quota, which will leave Germany with the most refugees anyway)
They just want to make sure none of them go in unnoticed.
They don't stop them from entering, though.
De maiziere today suggested putting financial pressure on countries in the EU not willing to take in refugees.
While it may seem like a bully move from the most powerful country in the EU, they are the only ones who actually can provide that pressure for the refugee quota
(and no, Germany does not want to ship people off to other countries, they just want a fair quota, which will leave Germany with the most refugees anyway)
The problem with threatening to remove EU Aid funding is that many of the countries getting EU Aid Funding barely function as is. I do not see how forcing thousands and potentially tens of thousands of refugees on them is going to be a benefit to anyone.
Plus they have stricter law now with possible prison sentence for illegal entry to the country/ damaging the fence.
Two new routes for migrants/refugees and those who want to earn with their misfortune are opening:
1) Serbia-->Croatia-->Slovenia-->Austria-->Germany
2) Serbia --> Romania-->Ukraine-->Slovakia-->Czech Republic-->Germany
FeelTheKick
Member
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Eh? That's not the case in the Netherlands at all. In fact, both politicians (with the obvious exception of Geert Wilders obviously) and the mainstream media in general rarely say a bad word about immigrants. It's obvious that immigration is one are where there's a giant chasm between what the general population thinks and what our cultural elite believes. If elections were held today Geert Wilders' PVV party would be the big winner, but that would be despite the combined concerted effort of media and all other political parties.
this is sounding scarily accurate. Germany are now talking about withholding aid from the central european countries opposed to a centralised immigration policy
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Me too, I'll be voting to leave when the referendum comes round.
MisterFalcon
Member
You realize that many of the refugees may want to go to a different country then the one the quota has randomly assigned them ? You'd end up with the refugees either in de facto prisons or tough border controls anyway.
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