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[PdotMichael]

Germany is in the driver's seat of this whole mess. This chaos helps them claw away powers from national governments to a federate government in EU. When Hungary and Austria fail their commendable efforts to be the Schengen border Serbia and Greece were supposed to be, and they will, they have no option but to fold their power ro EU. This gives Germany more direct decision making power across Europe than it ever had.

On the way there, however, brace for Neo Nazism rising its ugly head and becoming embarrassingly mainstream in Germany.

You mean like the AFD killed itself after moving to the right?

Any neo nazism movement in Germany is anything than mainstream.

 

[Enosh]

I wonder if 35 million would be "too much" for Södertälje? Listening to this woman (Boel Godner, Social Democratic Party - she was part of the Swedish panel in the big Sweden vs Denmark immigration debate) it was disgusting to talk about a place being "full" and that Södertälje never would be "full".

of course not, it's never too much for people like that

 

[Hypnotoad]

https://translate.google.de/transla...utkaan-paratiisi-1.1908707&edit-text=&act=url


Close to 200 Iraqi refugees in Finland have already decided to go fly back to Iraq. I guess after traversing Europe, Paradise has eluded them.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

https://translate.google.de/transla...utkaan-paratiisi-1.1908707&edit-text=&act=url


Close to 200 Iraqi refugees in Finland have already decided to go fly back to Iraq. I guess after traversing Europe, Paradise has eluded them.

Reading the actual article, looks like there's many reasons for why they want to return.

 

[Sloane]

You mean like the AFD killed itself after moving to the right?

Any neo nazism movement in Germany is anything than mainstream.

Yup. Merkel getting re-elected in 2017 is virtually a given and there's not a single actual right-wing party of any relevancy. The AfD still comes closest at ~4% in recent polls (a result unchanged from the last elections in 2013, by the way) and that's about it. Anyone who thinks that Germany is heading towards a "leadership that is very much against the EU and the Schengen crap" is completely delusional.

Political parties and elections aside, yes, neo-nazism is an issue in Germany but it's neither new nor mainstream, mostly located in the structurally weak areas of the former GDR. Whether that's on the rise due to the refugee crisis? Probably to some degree, but overall the country is still very much in favor of taking in refugees.

 

[Nivash]

Reading the actual article, looks like there's many reasons for why they want to return.

Yeah, they specifically cite reasons such family members getting conscripted, kidnapped or killed, that they can't bring their family over quickly enough and that they're uncertain that they can bring them over at all. The part about smugglers overstating how great Finland is compared to the reality of being stuck for ages in cramped refugee centres seems more like a throwaway comment on them being unhappy, but the translation is iffy so I might have misread that.

 

[funkypie]

possible theory on maybe the men have come first, in islam women are treated as second class citizens, the men give themselves priority.

 

[Alabamaman]

https://translate.google.de/transla...utkaan-paratiisi-1.1908707&edit-text=&act=url


Close to 200 Iraqi refugees in Finland have already decided to go fly back to Iraq. I guess after traversing Europe, Paradise has eluded them.

Most of them have been denied for asylum, so they'd have to leave anyway.

Still these numbers are peanuts compared to people coming in daily.

 

[Misterinenja]

possible theory on maybe the men have come first, in islam women are treated as second class citizens, the men give themselves priority.

They're more likely to survive the trip and being able to support their families financially before they can move over. Also more likely to get forced to join terror organizations, more likely to get a bullet in the head fighting for a faction they don't believe in.

But yeah sure blame their religion to fuel negative emotional responses instead of the obvious reason which should be clear for anyone capable of thinking.

 

[Facism]

possible theory on maybe the men have come first, in islam women are treated as second class citizens, the men give themselves priority.

This post brought to you by The Daily Mail.

 

[shaki123]

But yeah sure blame their religion to fuel negative emotional responses instead of the obvious reason which should be clear for anyone capable of thinking.

This post brought to you by The Daily Mail.

Are you really sure Islam doesn't treat women as 2nd priority to men? Why do you think they wear a headscarf then? Suppression.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

https://translate.google.de/transla...utkaan-paratiisi-1.1908707&edit-text=&act=url


Close to 200 Iraqi refugees in Finland have already decided to go fly back to Iraq. I guess after traversing Europe, Paradise has eluded them.

So people rather take their chances in a warzone than stay in Europe. Mission accomplished, I guess? :/

 

[Alabamaman]

So people rather take their chances in a warzone than stay in Europe. Mission accomplished, I guess? :/

Most of Iraq is not a warzone.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

possible theory on maybe the men have come first, in islam women are treated as second class citizens, the men give themselves priority.

You would rather put your wife and children on a dangerous and exhausting journey without knowing the outcome?

 

[Misterinenja]

Are you really sure Islam doesn't treat women as 2nd priority to men? Why do you think they wear a headscarf then? Suppression.

That's an another discussion but using that "possible theory" in this context is nothing but dehumanizing rhetoric when the reasons for it beyond cultural are obvious.

 

[ICKE]

Refugee children abandoned in train stations (Finland)

Volunteer workers are helping little ones who arrived by train to Helsinki but were all alone. Apparently there are no adults looking out for them.

Link

 

[Misterinenja]

Volunteer workers are helping little ones who arrived by train to Helsinki but were all alone. Apparently there are no adults looking out for them.

I feel sad for them but to send your own children away like that....Jesus.

Around 70 000 children were sent by trains to Sweden during the last wars in Finland. Maybe not an 1:1 comparison but you should get the point.

 

[Alabamaman]

Volunteer workers are helping little ones who arrived by train to Helsinki but were all alone. Apparently there are no adults looking out for them.

Link

How does a child that young get here? Parents should be thrown in jail, fucking assholes.

 

[ICKE]

Around 70 000 children were sent by trains to Sweden during the last wars in Finland. Maybe not an 1:1 comparison but you should get the point.

But these children are not coming directly from a war zone. They are arriving from Sweden, hoping that the bureaucratic procedure is more lenient in Finland.

And there are reports that hundreds of children have gone missing in Sweden.

 

[Alabamaman]

Around 70 000 children were sent by trains to Sweden during the last wars in Finland. Maybe not an 1:1 comparison but you should get the point.

Yeah, and we fought the war with soviets, while swedes did fucking nothing.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

You would rather put your wife and children on a dangerous and exhausting journey without knowing the outcome?

If the alternative was leaving them in an active warzone? I'd probably bring them with. If I couldn't afford to do that, I'd stay with them.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

But these children are not coming directly from a war zone. They are arriving from Sweden, hoping that the bureaucratic procedure is more lenient in Finland.

And there are reports that hundreds of children have gone missing in Sweden.

Are the kids from Iraq or something that would mean harder time getting asylum in Sweden? Is this some kind of family reunion exploit by the parents?

There ain't many reasons I can think of for a kid to travel alone from Sweden to Finland.

 

[Misterinenja]

But these children are not coming directly from a war zone. They are arriving from Sweden, hoping that the bureaucratic procedure is more lenient in Finland.

And there are reports that hundreds of children have gone missing in Sweden.

Desperate measures.

They may have wrong information given to them and take risks in hopes of not getting their kids turned back. I highly doubt many of them have some nefarious intents sending their kids away.

Yeah, and we fought the war with soviets, while swedes did fucking nothing.

Very basic level of understanding that situation. Not surprising.

 

[Alabamaman]

Are the kids from Iraq or something that would mean harder time getting asylum in Sweden? Is this some kind of family reunion exploit by the parents?

There ain't many reasons I can think of for a kid to travel alone from Sweden to Finland.

There has been exploits like sending an "anchorchild" before, but never children this young, They're usually teenagers that apply for family reunion and then bring the whole family, including grandparents.

 

[Alabamaman]

Desperate measures.

They may have wrong information given to them and take risks in hopes of not getting their kids turned back. I highly doubt many of them have some nefarious intents sending their kids away.


Very basic level of understanding that situation. Not surprising.

You can't seriously compare WW2 and economic immigration? I guess in Sweden you can.

 

[Misterinenja]

You can't seriously compare WW2 and economic immigration? I guess in Sweden you can.

Seeking asylum =/= economic immigration, are you dense?

You can have your opinions on how to tackle these issues, I understand being against taking refugees, but don't twist things to what they are not to support your agenda.

 

[Alabamaman]

Seeking asylum =/= economic immigration, are you dense?

You can have your opinions on how to tackle these issues, I understand being against taking refugees, but don't twist things to what they are not to support your agenda.

I'm not against helping people, especially children in need. How do you explain the sudden influx of Iraqi, who will not even stay in Sweden, the most humane country in the world?

 

[Misterinenja]

I'm not against helping people, especially children in need. How do you explain the sudden influx of Iraqi, who will not even stay in Sweden, the most humane country in the world?

They have, or think they have, better changes of being granted asylum in Finland rather than Sweden because Sweden is already overflowing with refugees and the system currently favors Syrians.

There, explained.

 

[EloKa]

I'm not against helping people, especially children in need. How do you explain the sudden influx of Iraqi, who will not even stay in Sweden, the most humane country in the world?

is this a fact like your attemp with "there is literally up to a thousand people coming from Sweden every day." while people kept posting real information which stated that on last friday they expected a new record of 500 people from all countries together?

This thread is full of wrong information, "I'm not racist (because I got a black girlfriend) BUT .... *random racist comments*" and people trying to speak for the whole EU with random hate comments.

 

[Alabamaman]

They have, or think they have, better changes of being granted asylum in Finland rather than Sweden because Sweden is already overflowing with refugees and the system currently favors Syrians.

There, explained.

An asylum seeker running for their life would stay in the first safe country they get to.

 

[Alabamaman]

is this a fact like your attemp with "there is literally up to a thousand people coming from Sweden every day." while people kept posting real information which stated that on last friday they expected a new record of 500 people from all countries together?

I said up to, which was to be expected. Yesterday it was more than, 17 busses packed full.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-uk-working-class-powerless?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[EloKa]

I said up to, which was to be expected. Yesterday it was more than, 17 busses packed full.

No you did not. The bolded part was your very own quote.
The "expected up to 500" was the only official information but you decided to spread your own stuff for some reasons.

Edit:

Those numbers are from last year, there is literally up to a thousand people coming from Sweden every day.

Please show me the expected part.

Is your defence the "up to"? Well, did you hear the news? There are LITERALLY up to 2 BILLION PEOPLE coming in each day. Well ... actually they are more 200ish but they could be up to 2 billion.

 

[Misterinenja]

An asylum seeker running for their life would stay in the first safe country they get to.

Are you actively trying not to understand? They're seeking asylum and have better changes doing that in Finland than Sweden. Or so they are told. Some might also have family here already.

There are too many reasons to begin listing why that logic doesn't make any sense.

 

[Alabamaman]

No you did not. The bolded part was your very own quote.
The "expected up to 500" was the only official information but you decided to spread your own stuff for some reasons.

The numbers were guessed in the media, only official information is regarding registered asylum seekers. There is no one counting at the border.

 

[Tacitus_]

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-nicht-alle-menschen-aufnehmen-a-1053662.html

Translation (from reddit)

Innenminister de Maizière spricht sich im neuen SPIEGEL für feste Flüchtlingskontingente aus. Wenn diese ausgeschöpft sind, müssten auch politisch Verfolgte in ihre Heimat zurückgeschickt werden.

[German] Minister of the Interior de Maizière favors fixed refugee contingents in the recent SPIEGEL edition. If these were exhausted, even politcally persecuted would have to be sent back to their home countries.

Bundesinnenminister Thomas de Maizière will mit einem neuen europäischen Asylrecht die Zahl der Flüchtlinge in Deutschland begrenzen. Man könne sich in Europa zwar nicht abschotten. "Wir können aber auch nicht alle Menschen aus Krisengebieten und alle Armutsflüchtlinge, die nach Europa und nach Deutschland möchten, aufnehmen", sagte de Maizière im Interview mit dem SPIEGEL [...].

Federal Minister of the Interior Thomas de Maizière aims to cap the number of refugees in Germany with a new European asylum law. It wouldn't be possible to seal off Europe, "but we cannot take in everyone from crisis areas or fleeing poverty, who wants to come to Europe and Germany", he told in an interview with SPIEGEL. (complete interview in German, behind a paywall)

"Der richtige Weg wäre, dass wir uns in der EU zu festen großzügigen Kontingenten für die Aufnahme von Flüchtlingen verpflichten." So werde sichergestellt, dass Europa nur so viele Flüchtlinge aufnehme, wie es auf Dauer auch verkraften könne.

"The right solution would be committing to fixed and generous contingents for refugee intake." This way it would be ensured that Europe only accepts as many refugees as it could sustain in the long run.

Das geltende deutsche Asylrecht will der Innenminister zwar beibehalten; de facto würde es aber bei einer europaweiten Regelung an Bedeutung verlieren. "Wenn wir bestimmte Politikfelder auf die europäische Ebene heben wollen, müssen wir einen Teil deutscher Souveränität aufgeben", sagte der CDU-Politiker.

The current German asylum law would stay unaltered according to the minister; however, de facto it would lose significance beside a Europe-wide regulation. "If we want to elevate specific political functions onto a European level we have to surrender a part of our German sovereignty", the CDU politician said.

Wenn die Kontingente ausgeschöpft sind, will de Maizière politisch Verfolgte in ihre Heimatregionen zurückschicken. Man müsse dann sicherstellen, dass sie in der Region, aus der sie kommen, sicher und ohne Verfolgung leben könnten. Europa brauche starke Außengrenzen, sagte de Maizière. Flüchtlinge, die zum Beispiel über das Mittelmeer illegal in die EU einreisen wollten, sollten "an einen sicheren Ort in Afrika" gebracht werden. Sonst mache eine Kontingentlösung wenig Sinn, so der Bundesinnenminister. De Maizière steht in der Flüchtlingspolitik unter Druck von allen Seiten.

In case these contingents are exhausted, de Maizière would send politically persecuted back into their home regions. One would have to ensure that those sent back could live there in peace, without the risk of persecution. Europe would need strong external borders, de Maizière said. Refugees who would have sailed across the Mediterranean Sea to enter the EU illegally, should be brought to a "safe space in Africa". Otherwise, even a contingent solution would be pointless, according to the minister. De Maizière is pressured [article in German] from all directions when it comes to the refugee policy.

Oh look, a sensible policy from the germans.

 

[moniker]

Sorry, misread.

 

[Alabamaman]

Are you actively trying not to understand? They're seeking asylum and have better changes doing that in Finland than Sweden. Or so they are told. Some might also have family here already.

There are too many reasons to begin listing why that logic doesn't make any sense.

Yes they're exploiting the system. It's not their fault, it's our leaders who need to wake the fuck up.

 

[daniels]

Seeking asylum =/= economic immigration, are you dense?

You can have your opinions on how to tackle these issues, I understand being against taking refugees, but don't twist things to what they are not to support your agenda.

Nope you are wrong after you travel through several save countries to your economic dream land its no longer about safety but about where you think its most profitable after this point you become a economic migrant as simple as that. We all currently witness where this retarded pick and choose mentality leads but some few people still defend this delusion as if it worked the whole time until now ... are you blind? How can you not see that this isn't working?

 

[Kill Your Masters]

If the alternative was leaving them in an active warzone? I'd probably bring them with. If I couldn't afford to do that, I'd stay with them.

Well, no, of course not. I assume most are left in the camps in Lebanon and Turkey. Obviously thats where they should bring them first and foremost. If they leave them in a warzone though I agree completely with your post.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

One would have to ensure that those sent back could live there in peace, without the risk of persecution. Europe would need strong external borders, de Maizière said. Refugees who would have sailed across the Mediterranean Sea to enter the EU illegally, should be brought to a "safe space in Africa".

So just have open borders to Canary Islands for all refugees, everyone wins!

Sorry Spain.

 

[EloKa]

The numbers were guessed in the media, only official information is regarding registered asylum seekers. There is no one counting at the border.

So there is no counting, but the "media" that you refer to has the correct numbers and the official numbers by the government must be hoax? where did the "media" get their numbers from? From you maybe?

How about if you just stick to facts instead of posting rumours or random guesses as official statements or true facts?

 

[Alabamaman]

So there is no counting, but the "media" that you refer to has the correct numbers and the official numbers by the government must be hoax? where did the "media" get their numbers from? From you maybe?

How about if you just stick to facts instead of posting rumours or random guesses as official statements or true facts?

Official numbers mean nothing, because there is no control at the border. Police just check random people and the busses go through unchecked.

It's a mess really, people are not registering as asylum seekers, because they want to a "big city".

 

[Morgan Blackhand]

So there is no counting, but the "media" that you refer to has the correct numbers and the official numbers by the government must be hoax? where did the "media" get their numbers from? From you maybe?

Interior minister Petteri Orpo said that 1000 refugees were expected on friday.

 

[Misterinenja]

Yes they're exploiting the system. It's not their fault, it's our leaders who need to wake the fuck up.

Notice how I didn't bring politics to any of my replies.

Nope you are wrong after you travel through several save countries to your economic dream land its no longer about safety but about where you think its most profitable after this point you become a economic migrant as simple as that. We all currently witness where this retarded pick and choose mentality leads but some few people still defend this delusion as if it worked the whole time until now ... are you blind? How can you not see that this isn't working?

What's your point? Of course richer nations with better social safety nets are desirable locations. It's not very realistic to just leave this to Southern countries to handle by themselves while others just close their borders and stick their heads to sand.

This is an EU wide problem to deal with and responsibility must be shared. The amount solidarity shown in handling this is absolutely pathetic.

What you are doing is painting a picture of refugees as some evil scheming economical tourists which just isn't the case and does not actually help the situation in any way.

Edit: Actually I think that responsibility for this shit on global scale should not be on EUs shoulders but that that's a whole another discussion.

 

[EloKa]

Official numbers mean nothing, because there is no control at the border. Police just check random people and the busses go through unchecked.

It's a mess really, people are not registering as asylum seekers, because they want to a "big city".

okay, so the official numbers are just a joke and they don't get counted. But you and your "media" now of up to 1000 people each day + the mentioned 17 busses?

Just so I can understand it:
there are official numbers and you call them "nothing".
you found somewhere some random numbers, and those mean "everything".
There is no need for you to validate these random numbers because they might help prove your point of view and you feel obligated to sell those numbers as official facts?

 

[Alabamaman]

okay, so the official numbers are just a joke and they don't get counted. But you and your "media" now of up to 1000 people each day + the mentioned 17 busses?

Just so I can understand it:
there are official numbers and you call them "nothing".
you found somewhere some random numbers, and those mean "everything".
There is no need for you to validate these random numbers because they might help prove your point of view and you feel obligated to sell those numbers as official facts?

The swedes seem to do the counting. The bus station where practically all of them come from is in Sweden.

I don't give a fuck if it's 500 or 1000. It's just too much to handle, and it's not slowing down anytime soon.

 

[daniels]

Notice how I didn't bring politics to any of my replies.


What's your point? Of course richer nations with better social safety nets are desirable locations. It's not very realistic to just leave this to Southern countries to handle by themselves while others just close their borders and stick their heads to sand.

This is EU wide problem to deal with and responsibility must be shared. The amount solidarity shown in handling this is absolutely pathetic.

What you are doing is painting a picture of refugees as some evil scheming economical tourists which just isn't the case and does not actually help the situation in any way.

Yes we need a fair quota for all EU countries this would also end the retarded pick and choose.
That you defended this and act like there are no economic refugees that currently abuse this pick and choose crap means yeah you are actually blind.
Here again look at the numbers and look at the biggest group. Also what do you think thousands of fake syrien passports are for?

 

[Hypnotoad]

Notice how I didn't bring politics to any of my replies.


What's your point? Of course richer nations with better social safety nets are desirable locations. It's not very realistic to just leave this to Southern countries to handle by themselves while others just close their borders and stick their heads to sand.

Croatia and Slovenia are safe, developed countries that have facilities available for refugees. Slovenia even has a slightly higher HDI than Italy and Spain. During the last days, one mother with her child asked for asylum in Croatia, and nobody yet in Slovenia.

 

[Tacitus_]

And meanwhile in Austria, the police try to see passports of the migrants before letting them go through and this happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUdUkKH3J7o