[GI.biz] Black Ops 6 is make-or-break for the Game Pass strategy

mayham2199 said:
My nephew is a PC gamer and has no idea what game pass even is. I really do think MS not only needs to advertise gamepass more but they need more just gamepass ads with an explanation of what it is.
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Or maybe MS simply stops with this stupid subscription services and concentrate more on making good games!? ;)

I mean your nephew seems to be happy on PC without gamepass at all. I just dont understand why everybody is so keen on these sub services. It has so many disadvantages to what we have now...except for the cheap price maybe. But even this cheap price seems pretty unhealthy to me. While the whole industry is crying about how expensive videogames are to develop....and MS being like: Here, have it all for a penny guys! :unsure:
 
pudel said:
Or maybe MS simply stops with this stupid subscription services and concentrate more on making good games!? ;)

I mean your nephew seems to be happy on PC without gamepass at all. I just dont understand why everybody is so keen on these sub services. It has so many disadvantages to what we have now...except for the cheap price maybe. But even this cheap price seems pretty unhealthy to me. While the whole industry is crying about how expensive videogames are to develop....and MS being like: Here, have it all for a penny guys! :unsure:
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Why not both? I wont be renewing this time myself but I can't deny its been a great service the last few years, this one excluded. Although the next few months look good.

Its only the same as renting back in the day or constantly trading in used games for new ones every month.

If i was a teenager these days i'd be all over gamepass.
 
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bender said:
Coincidentally I let my GPU sub lapse in early October after almost five years.
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Im about the same, I just don't use it anymore. I bought more games this last 18 months than I have in long time.

If they actually had decent first party stuff i'd probably stick around.
 
pudel said:
Or maybe MS simply stops with this stupid subscription services and concentrate more on making good games!? ;)

I mean your nephew seems to be happy on PC without gamepass at all. I just dont understand why everybody is so keen on these sub services. It has so many disadvantages to what we have now...except for the cheap price maybe. But even this cheap price seems pretty unhealthy to me. While the whole industry is crying about how expensive videogames are to develop....and MS being like: Here, have it all for a penny guys! :unsure:
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Oh I agree with you but I just don't think MS is going to do that. So if they are going to stick with it they need to advertise it more and really explain what GP is and what you're getting. I thought GP was a good idea at first but after I got through the games I wanted to play I was just bored with it and canceled. I'm just done with the sub services in general.
 
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clarky said:
Cheers.

Just Microsoft being useless as per then.
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I don't know what's going on.

It looks like internal conflict, like some want it on Game Pass, others don't...and they agreed to put it on, but not talk about it too too much, but still talk about it. Lol.
 
clarky said:
Why not both? I wont be renewing this time myself but I can't deny its been a great service the last few years, this one excluded. Although the next few months look good.

Its only the same as renting back in the day or constantly trading in used games for new ones every month.

If i was a teenager these days i'd be all over gamepass.
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Yeah, both is fine actually....i guess. I just worry about a "sub only"-future which is more likely to happen when this shit stays (ofc) and might become too successful.
 
GHG said:
That failing led to them releasing their games across multiple console platforms.

There's clearly something else they have in mind if this fails in their eyes as well.
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That's easy tho goalposts can simply move to next year's CoD
 
pudel said:
Yeah, both is fine actually....i guess. I just worry about a "sub only"-future which is more likely to happen when this shit stays (ofc) and might become too successful.
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That I definitely wouldn't want. Ironically, Nintendo and PS are already doing it. Anything not natively on the Switch is sub exclusive on Nintendo Online, including some modern games like the "99" series, Tetris and F-Zero. PS is seeing some occasional weird sporadic sub only content from the PS1 for unknown reasons, could be Capcom or something else. MS supposedly is spending money on a whole team to try and ensure BC and FC (forward compatibility) for purchases. We'll see.
 
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twilo99 said:
That's easy tho goalposts can simply move to next year's CoD
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What are you talking about? Are you being purposefully obtuse?

The goalposts haven't moved, the outcome of Starfield had a direct impact on how Xbox is run. If COD fails to hit whatever targets they've set for it (gamepass or otherwise) then the reality is that there will likely be further change at Xbox.
 
There are a lot of people who buy only COD each year. Gamepass makes no sense for them IMO. They can just drop $70 on COD and then $10 a month for multiplayer instead of $20 a month for GPU
 
XXL said:
I think you're looking at it wrong.

Many of us own multiple consoles, it's not about moving hardened platform owners. It's about making your platform attractive like Astray Astray mentioned.

They themselves have failed to do so.

And their biggest problem is not being consistent, they pivot every 5 mins and that doesn't inspire confidence with consumers.

Ask former Xbox fanboys that gave up on them, that's their main issue.
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As an owner of both Microsoft and Playstation consoles this is one of my issues. On one hand I love the XBOX system, but their constantly change things on me. Prices, Offerings, and I have a gut feeling that all the titles they release going forward are mostly filler titles for Gampass, and Not AAA titles but more AA B team titles if you get that meaning. They are good but not great games just to feed the Gamepass Beast.

I do however worry about Playstaion not supporting backward compatibility as much as Microsoft does so there is that nugget, but I just feel we get better products on Playstation at this time.
 
Just imagine if Microsoft, instead of trying to force subscription services on their players instead focused on making great exclusive games to SELL to their console users. They'd have a new COD coming out this week and not only would they get millions of sales on Playstation but they'd also get millions of sales on Xbox consoles.

Instead, they're getting sales on Playstation and hoping (for some reason) that they get more subscribers INSTEAD of wanting more sales on their consoles! It just beggars belief but this is what Microsoft seems to be aiming for (and anyone that says differently is nuts. Why put it Day 1 on gamepass if you DIDN'T want subscribers?)
 
Dorfdad said:
I do however worry about Playstaion not supporting backward compatibility as much as Microsoft does so there is that nugget, but I just feel we get better products on Playstation at this time.
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Yea this kind of bothers me as well but honestly I rarely ever replay a game. The only game I ever replay consistently is Mass Effect and that should be future proof now.
 
Dorfdad said:
As an owner of both Microsoft and Playstation consoles this is one of my issues. On one hand I love the XBOX system, but their constantly change things on me. Prices, Offerings, and I have a gut feeling that all the titles they release going forward are mostly filler titles for Gampass, and Not AAA titles but more AA B team titles if you get that meaning. They are good but not great games just to feed the Gamepass Beast.

I do however worry about Playstaion not supporting backward compatibility as much as Microsoft does so there is that nugget, but I just feel we get better products on Playstation at this time.
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There is no evidence for you to feel this way. Look at what they have in the oven and almost none of it screams AA or gamepass filler.

COD, Indy, Age of Mythology (just out), flight sim, Avowed( ok maybe this one) Fable, Doom, the next COD plus the other stuff they showed over the summer. All look like they have decent potential to me.

They might turn out to be mid like most of the stuff they put out but id find it hard to describe them as AA.
 
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Punished Miku said:
Who is talking about owing? At some point you just have to call it for what it is. Literally nothing will change the landscape if this doesn't. I think gamers know what GP is. They're marketing it to Amazon customers, which are probably more getable than PS gamers. Everyone with a PS has zero interest in any other competition in this market in any way and only want PS exclusively, period.

MS has the superior lineup for this holiday. If you're into FPS games you could play Call of Duty, Stalker 2, Indiana Jones and Avowed, plus 2 dozen other games for $68. No one has ever competed that hard, ever. It's embarrassing how much better value it is, but it will still not move the needle. That tells you market forces no longer matter when assessing performance. Price cuts by a factor of 4 not moving the needle is something we never saw in previous gens, and I called that years ago.
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It's like I said, if you are a gamer that isn't on Xbox or PC already, then GP is not the value add Microsoft thinks it is. I don't really get your argument about consumers being to blame here. Most of us went with other things and are happy with our experiences more or less.

What was exactly lost when Xbox lost?

Microsoft misunderstood the core gamer market yet again (I talked about why GP is a badly-designed value proposition HERE) and is now paying the price in embarrassment.

I personally gave Microsoft a shot this gen and bought my 1st ever Xbox machine, and it's sitting there wallowing in dust. They simply never delivered on great experiences that set them apart from Playstation.

clarky said:
Its so odd, they spend 70 billion to get the game on gamepass then the marketing is AWOL in the UK aside from the odd BLOPS6 advertisement.

I'd be pushing this like a motherfucker if i was them, looks like they really have given up.
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I think by now we all know the difference between Sony marketing COD and MS marketing COD.

Sony made COD into a worldwide phenom and actually grew the franchise for Activision, MS can barely keep us hearing about it despite having 10x the financial resources.

BennyBlanco said:
maybe this is me being ignorant, but I feel like the average CoD player just plays CoD and Apex/Fortnite/whatever. They arent gonna be interested in playing Hellblade 2 and Slay the Spire if it means another monthly sub.
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Yep.

That's the great miscalculation behind GP, they attracted the hardcore gamer that drops 5-10 game purchases on them per year and couldn't find the reason for a Fortnite or COD player to subscribe.

XXL said:
I've said this before and I know people don't like hearing it...but I think its true.

The industry is going through consolidation.

- Steam won the PC market
- Playstation won the console market
- Nintendo won the handheld market

I just think they emerged as the winners of their spaces and aren't really that interested in competing with each other head to head anymore.

The good thing is we have the internet and it will be difficult for them to be tyrannical like you could have before pre internet.

As for Xbox I just think they (and some of their fanbase) made some crucial mistake along the way. Now, they're going to have to go through a reconfiguration to find a place to fit in......which is going to be an uphill battle when it's come to hardware.
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I don't think the other 3 big players will leave each other alone for long. The competition will just cease being direct for a few years while each party starts to make up the tech debt that enables them slowly get into their competitors' borders.
 
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Don't really see the point of Cod on gamepass unless you are interested in the library of games that they offer.

Anyone who play's Campaign only or knows that they'll probably play this for a few months and get bored and then forget about it can just easily pick up a 3 month pass or free trials if they still do that.

Anyone who actually plays MP/Zombies consistently would just buy the game outright as they'd be paying more for it if they stay on game pass, and Warzone players don't need to buy anything.

I doubt it will move any needles but we need Xbox around as Sony are going in a weird direction this gen.
 
Astray said:
I think by now we all know the difference between Sony marketing COD and MS marketing COD.

Sony made COD into a worldwide phenom and actually grew the franchise for Activision, MS can barely keep us hearing about it despite having 10x the financial resources.
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COD was already a worldwide phenomenon before Playstation took over the rights. The top 3 selling CODs happen under XBOX's watch, although how they managed that i'll never know lol.

In fact id argue that partnership helped Sony more. Best deal they ever did imo.
 
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I honestly think that almost every person who wanted GP specifically for COD or any other ABK game are on board long ago. Plus, it is getting progressively harder to get into GP by random due to recent trial restrictions and geoblocking of cheap regions.

We should also consider that CoD is a social multiplayer game at it's core, so essentially you follow your friends and not the business model. Especially since for many it's the only game in a year that is bought for a full retail price without any second thoughts. When all your friends and teammates are on Steam/PS5/PS5 Pro $70 is not a very substantial price to pay for your hobby. You'll simply miss all the social meta on Xbox/GamePass app despite saving (?) some buck.

And also GamePass doesn't actually that good of a deal after the recent hikes. 90% of CoD players hardly care about 90% of current GP catalogue and GPU is 20 buck a month. It's too much of a fee for a game you'll probably play for all year round and it's easier to just buy the thing and spend more on MTX later.

That's why I don't believe it will move a needle by much outside of inital wave of 1-month activations like it was with Starfield 1 year ago.
 
GHG said:
What are you talking about? Are you being purposefully obtuse?

The goalposts haven't moved, the outcome of Starfield had a direct impact on how Xbox is run. If COD fails to hit whatever targets they've set for it (gamepass or otherwise) then the reality is that there will likely be further change at Xbox.
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The goalposts are dynamic on both sides.

There is no way to know what triggers gamepass changes or what their "goals" for CoD on GP actually are, so they can change that on the fly.

The "media" can claim that Starfield is "make or break", and then move down the order of games each year in case gamepass does not break... this year is CoD, next year will be some other big game, etc.
 
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clarky said:
COD was already a worldwide phenomenon before Playstation took over the rights. The top 3 selling CODs happen under XBOX's watch, although how they managed that i'll never know lol.

In fact id argue that partnership help Sony more. Best deal they ever did imo.
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When I say worldwide I mean it.

Sony getting the marketing rights during the PS4 era was the 1st time I ever saw COD advertising in my country.

The problem with MS has always been that they're too myopic to try getting any marketshare in any market that isn't NA or maybe UK.

I can already see the COD marketing slowly diminishing where I am.

twilo99 said:
The goalposts are dynamic on both sides.

There is no way to know what triggers gamepass changes or what their "goals" for CoD on GP actually are, so they can change that on the fly.

The "media" can claim that Starfield is "make or break", and then move down the order of games each year in case gamepass does not break... this year is CoD, next year will be some other big game, etc.
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Starfield was clearly make-or-break for Bethesda game exclusivity, after it came out, MS started releasing ports on Playstation and Switch.
 
//DEVIL// said:
I am 100% don't agree with you.

For many cod players, once the new one is out, the old one barely get any play.
Instead of paying 70$ every year ( PC release talking here ), you pay 60$ more ( per year ) and so a total of 130$ give or take ( assuming you couldn't find something cheaper from websites) , you get to play that game all year plus whatever else MS has in store like Indiana Johnie's or whatever + try different games from the catalogue they have.

In theory it's really appealing.

Too bad the console version is a rip off because they wanna charge u to play online lol
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Yeah, i am with you that GP is definitely a better deal for the player (provided they actually have interest in playing the other stuff) and monthly recurring payments are great for investor presentations, i just dont think CODs typical audience is even aware that gamepass exists tbh.

Problem is all of that assumes that the customer will stay subscribed, i will personally subscribe for just 1 month to play Indiana Jones, Stalker 2 and BO6 all together and then cancel so theyll lose out 120€ on someone like me, i say 120 instead of 200 because i would have only bought 2 out of 3 of those games, but its still less then they would have made otherwise. (Black Ops 6 costing 80€ is crazy btw)

Granted in this case the customer will be left with owning nothing in the end and if they wanted to play those games again they would have to either buy them or renew so theres still potential for them to make more money so its not the end of the transaction, but short-term theyre worse-off and whatever they potentially make long-term is uncertain and given that games go on sale its likely also lower.

Another thing to note is that COD has sells amazingly well already and a lot of people who already have gamepass who would have bought it will not need to do so anymore and i bet that number of people is bigger than the amount of new subsribers theyll get. I was under the impression that gamepass was actually making quite a bit of money until now, but COD on it will overall be a net negative for MS imo.
 
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twilo99 said:
The goalposts are dynamic on both sides.

There is no way to know what triggers gamepass changes or what their "goals" for CoD on GP actually are, so they can change that on the fly.

The "media" can claim that Starfield is "make or break", and then move down the order of games each year in case gamepass does not break... this year is CoD, next year will be some other big game, etc.
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Gamepass didn't break?

Remind me, how much do you need to pay again per month on Xbox in order to get access to their day one catalogue? How much was that very same thing this time last year?

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the changes made to how Xbox is run along with the subsequent pricing and structural changes to gamepass say that they are starting to make adjustments as necessary in order to keep their business afloat.
 
GHG said:
Gamepass didn't break?

Remind me, how much do you need to pay again per month on Xbox in order to get access to their day one catalogue? How much was that very same thing this time last year?

You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but the changes made to how Xbox is run along with the subsequent pricing and structural changes to gamepass say that they are starting to make adjustments as necessary in order to keep their business afloat.
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I think you are very much aware that there are very few products out there, digital or otherwise, that haven't gone up in price in the past 12 months?

I'm not saying that they aren't making changes based on performance and expectations, but you need to account for other obvious variables that could affect the price point.
 
twilo99 said:
I think you are very much aware that there are very few products out there, digital or otherwise, that haven't gone up in price in the past 12 months?

I'm not saying that they aren't making changes based on performance and expectations, but you need to account for other obvious variables that could affect the price point.
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I'm not only talking about the price though am I?

They changed the whole structure of gamepass at short notice, which meant their key differentiator (day one) is now locked to only the most expensive tier available on console.

The only reason to make such drastic structural changes to a subscription model is when the previous structure is no longer viable from a financial point of view.

There's no need to go full DarkMage, the ambassador program has ended, let your mind be free.
 
T4keD0wN said:
Problem is all of that assumes that the customer will stay subscribed, i will personally subscribe for just 1 month to play Indiana Jones, Stalker 2 and BO6 all together and then cancel so theyll lose out 120€ on someone like me, i say 120 instead of 200 because i would have only bought 2 out of 3 of those games, but its still less then they would have made otherwise. (Black Ops 6 costing 80€ is crazy btw)
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Thats what I mean. How can this be healthy for the devs/studios/MS? :messenger_dizzy:

I am happily paying fullprice for Indy and Stalker...just because gamepass doesnt makes sense to me. I cannot see how this model ensures that I will see further content or a new game from these studios when everybody would do it this way (thank god they dont).
 
mayham2199 said:
Yea this kind of bothers me as well but honestly I rarely ever replay a game. The only game I ever replay consistently is Mass Effect and that should be future proof now.
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Funny I own this collection and haven't played its once... Backlogged for ages it seems
 
Bernoulli said:
but this reminds me of starfield will boost consoles and game pass new a few weeks before launch
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Didn't the CEO announce that Starfield provided them with record GP subs? Guess they didn't realize those people would just cancel a month later.

Dorfdad said:
Funny I own this collection and haven't played its once... Backlogged for ages it seems
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I mean this is pretty much a crime against humanity at this point. It's my favorite game of all time.
 
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GHG said:
I'm not only talking about the price though am I?

They changed the whole structure of gamepass at short notice, which meant their key differentiator (day one) is now locked to only the most expensive tier available on console.

The only reason to make such drastic structural changes to a subscription model is when the previous structure is no longer viable from a financial point of view.

There's no need to go full DarkMage, the ambassador program has ended, let your mind be free.
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It's like, they want to believe Xbox changed strategy because of other factors, besides the obvious.
 
GHG said:
I'm not only talking about the price though am I?

They changed the whole structure of gamepass at short notice, which meant their key differentiator (day one) is now locked to only the most expensive tier available on console.

The only reason to make such drastic structural changes to a subscription model is when the previous structure is no longer viable from a financial point of view.

There's no need to go full DarkMage, the ambassador program has ended, let your mind be free.
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That was all fake news I still get my paycheck and I even charge them extra time whenever I get an engagement with you cuz it ain't easy

But okay, you are interpreting the restructuring of the service as 100% negative reaction to it's performance?
 
I'm not sure this is 'Make or Break' for Gamepass, as I think MS would have a longer strategic purpose for it than to dump it at this point.

Mostly I think it will be a learning from MS to see how it all plays out for other multiplatform titles, e.g. will the money they get from any increased subscriptions outweigh the money forgone on sales from people who just play on GP and don't buy it. Will those people spend more money on MTX / Season passes? Will anyone move from PS to MS to play COD on GP? I wouldn't think so very much on that last one.
 
first new cod game on Xbox for me since 360 days

I just didn't see the point during the ps4 era and ps5 era as the ps4 versions were nicer, ps5 version had the dual sense features

But included with a service I already pay for? Sure! Saves me an additional $100 (in Canada)
 
Kerotan said:
Most cod players play cod and almost nothing else. Maybe a sports game like FIFA or some American sports.
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Id like to see evidence of that.

While I dont disagree theres a lot of such players I cant see it being the majority.

Edit: Yeah its a lot but nowhere near "most"

"CharlieIntel notes a passage that begins by stating that "more than 13 million unique PlayStation users have played Call of Duty." That's two-thirds of the console's US user base who have dipped into the franchise, but there's also evidence that points out how die-hard some of its fans are.

In 2021, Sony claims that "about 1 million users spent 100% of their playing time on Call of Duty." Additionally, while the average player spent 16 hours per year playing Call of Duty, six million spent 70% of their time on the platform with this specific franchise, amounting to an average of 296 hours a year"

www.gamesradar.com

In 2021, more than a million PlayStation players only played Call of Duty

And 6 million spent 70% of their time with CoD
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com
 
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Not sure where to put it, but downloading 120GB of patch just to play the game, which has common entry point, thus you can't play previous games is really something. I am on 2.5Gbps, downloading around 650Mbps from Xbox itself, so it didn't take that long, however it still seems really crazy.
 
Hero of Spielberg said:
Game pass is 23 years old?
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Gamepass is just another de-facto failed schtick on the road to the imaginary living room domination. If you look back at Xbox history, we've seen this many times. Big-brain ideas form MS is a thing every generation, including TV-TV-TV push, overthinking the Kinect success or console engineering errors that costed 1+ billion (maybe more) in repair damages. Even OG Xbox was launched with massive studio buyouts. Funnily enough very few studios form the era are hardly with us or with Microsoft today, and Rare's last truly legendary title was released pre-acquisition. And every time Microsoft had much more money and ambition than brains or underlying understanding of the entertainment industry as a whole, because any other platform-holder would've crashed after any of the mentioned flops.

IMO MS is always chasing some earth-shuttering formulas in the industry, where arguably the only thing that matters is hard and grueling work of building your brand, fanbase loyalty with... Well, good games and banalced hardware. Gamepass is neither. It's just yet another attempt at buying up the whole industry. Now by locking up the biggest IP behind a sub service, that on the road there became stale and expensive after they've dropped too much money on said IP.

I pray for the day when MS extinguish the burning money pile and will become a healthy 3rd party publisher. Because God is my witness, they are hardly acting as a PS/Nintendo competitor for 2 gens straight, especially outside the US.
 
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