Giant Bomb #11 | Thanks for the Spelunkin', the Spookin', and the Scoopin'

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funkystudent said:
Finished this weeks podcast.


Would something like Zelda be a precursor to Diablo? Sure it doesnt have that loot system but you have a top down view, A overworld, multi level dungeons.
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In some ways, sure. The thought did cross my mind during that section.

However I think the loot is so intrinsic to the Diablo experience that it allows Diablo to stand apart from something like the 2d Zelda's. And especially as it is a part of a larger set of idiosyncratic systems (action rpg combat, character levelling, randomised dungeon crawling etc.)
 
Watching MGScanlon ep. 04. Drew is basically brute-forcing some sections now, haha. Ep. 03 was pretty hype, I'll admit. This is clearly a much better videogame.

Jimmyfenix said:
pls post in the right thread next time
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Only had the tab open because of the Zaphster. Not my fault we're all on our lonesome here with no mods to close old threads.
 
Lolololol at patrick saying that X-com troops has more character than the valkyria chronicles troops.

Patrick please.
 
I didn't get through the first ten minutes of the QL, now I know why people said "no one asked for this."

And even in those first ten minutes I was vastly more interested in those characters than anyone in X-Com.
 
funkystudent said:
Finished this weeks podcast.


Would something like Zelda be a precursor to Diablo? Sure it doesnt have that loot system but you have a top down view, A overworld, multi level dungeons.
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Diablo also takes elements from Rogue and similar games (dare I say...roguelikes?!). Mainly the dungeon crawling, even if the gameplay is vastly different. But Diablo was probably the first of its kind, even if it is, like all other games, inspired by other games.
 
Well to be fair on him he hasn't really been far enough into it to see their characters play out, but I just had a good laugh when I heard him call the VC characters homogeneous as opposed to an X-com trooper where his definition of a character is how many battles the trooper has been in.
 
Antiwhippy said:
Well to be fair on him he hasn't really been far enough into it to see their characters play out, but I just had a good laugh when I heard him call the VC characters homogeneous as opposed to an X-com trooper where his definition of a character is how many battles the trooper has been in.
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He's not very far into the game, so of course people who have finished the game will have an entirely different perspective on it. He's finished X-com and not gotten far into VC, so it's not that surprising that he'd say that X-com had more interesting characters to him (at that point) than VC.

Anyways, at work for about 16 hours today. Think I need to begin listening to old Bombcasts or something to keep my sanity. Watched Danny's GTA V thing, but that didn't do anything for me (even Vinny's stream of that game when it first came out wasn't that good), so time to move on to some energy drink talk. It's so difficult to do solo videos that I don't even think Danny can make it very entertaining most of the time, but I see that I'm in the minority when it comes to the GTA V video.
 
I thought what Patrick said was that in Xcom you upgrade each soldier individually whereas in VC you upgrade a soldier type.
 
Antiwhippy said:
Well to be fair on him he hasn't really been far enough into it to see their characters play out, but I just had a good laugh when I heard him call the VC characters homogeneous as opposed to an X-com trooper where his definition of a character is how many battles the trooper has been in.
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There are about 4 or 5 VC characters that have any real character unless you go digging through personnel profiles.
 
tchocky said:
I thought what Patrick said was that in Xcom you upgrade each soldier individually whereas in VC you upgrade a soldier type.
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He did, and then he discussed how that game mechanic led you the player becoming more emotionally invested in their individual troops in XCom vs the more generic "level up all Scouts" mechanic in VC.

He's right.
 
Hmm, going back to have a listen and yeah I'll correct myself in that he's mostly talking about having one character be able to level up uniquely, but I'll still take issue with him calling them homogeneous and saying that there's nothing unique about them as opposed to X-com where you have to level each soldier individually.

Brashnir said:
He did, and then he discussed how that game mechanic led you the player becoming more emotionally invested in their individual troops in XCom vs the more generic "level up all Scouts" mechanic in VC.

He's right.
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The character traits play a huge part in determining how effective they are as soldiers, how they interact around your other troops and also give their character a lot more context than generic X-com trooper 1. Again though, fair enough that he isn't far enough into the game to see those factors come into effect.

Basileus777 said:
There are about 4 or 5 VC characters that have any real character unless you go digging through personnel profiles.
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More than X-com did!

I'll agree with him on fire emblem giving it's character more... uh, character.
 
Glitchesarecool said:
Why would anyone agree to working 16 hours straight? Actually I don't think I've ever had a job where a boss would have approved that if I wanted to.
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The life of a lawyer sometimes, even a government lawyer like myself. It's not healthy.

Think I'm gonna start with Vinny's first Bombcast.
 
funkystudent said:
Finished this weeks podcast.


Would something like Zelda be a precursor to Diablo? Sure it doesnt have that loot system but you have a top down view, A overworld, multi level dungeons.
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Remember, the original Diablo only had 1 dungeon.

And the isometric perspective was not solely Zelda (although it may have been one of the first).

No, Diablo owes a hell of a lot more to Rogue than anything else. It's basically Rogue in real-time with better graphics and a little more story.
 
Brashnir said:
He did, and then he discussed how that game mechanic led you the player becoming more emotionally invested in their individual troops in XCom vs the more generic "level up all Scouts" mechanic in VC.

He's right.
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If that's what he actually said then yeah that's fine.

It's been a while, but I thought characters in VC get extra traits if you use them a lot.
 
Antiwhippy said:
The character traits play a huge part in determining how effective they are as soldiers, how they interact around your other troops and also give their character a lot more context than generic X-com trooper 1. Again though, fair enough that he isn't far enough into the game to see those factors come into effect.
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Not as huge as all the time spent cultivating a solid team, keeping them all alive through dozens of missions and outfitting them in gear tuned to their individual abilities. Not even close.

I'm not slagging off VC, but the personal commitment to characters from a gameplay, and thus player, standpoint isn't even marginally comparable.
 
Brashnir said:
Not as huge as all the time spent cultivating a solid team, keeping them all alive through dozens of missions and outfitting them in gear tuned to their individual abilities. Not even close.

I'm not slagging off VC, but the personal commitment to characters from a gameplay, and thus player, standpoint isn't even marginally comparable.
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The difference for me is that XCom has a significant permadeath mechanic, while you have to mess up real bad or be unlucky to have a character die permanently in VC.
 
I don't know man, I don't really feel that valkyria chronicles is all that different to what you mentioned. Throughout the game I've also pretty much picked out a solid core team based on the their traits working well with each other and also how much I liked their personality to begin with. I've also tried my best to keep them all alive, though admittedly this isn't as hard to do as in X-com due to how savage x-com can get, but there is perma-death there to keep me on my toes. I just disagree with his point that the soldiers are there to grind through with no standout traits between them. I honestly do think that the personal traits are essential.

I'll concede that X-com does better in customising classes and weapons but I don't see how that builds character really. The only thing I'm annoyed about when a soldier die in X-com is that it's going to take awhile to build another person up. Like, I don't fucking care about the character other than the time invested because that's all there is. VC2 does make each soldier class more customisable though.
 
Basileus777 said:
The difference for me is that XCom has a significant permadeath mechanic, while you have to mess up real bad or be unlucky to have a character die permanently in VC.
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Yeah, absolutely. No argument there. VC's system is what it is and is deliberately designed to work that way. There's nothing wrong with it fundamentally at all, and it offers plenty of advantages, but one of the disadvantages that comes along with that is a loss of that attachment and sense of potential loss that's built into XCom's gameplay system.

Antiwhippy said:
I'll concede that X-com does better in customising classes and weapons but I don't see how that builds character really. The only thing I'm annoyed about when a soldier die in X-com is that it's going to take awhile to build another person up. VC2 does make each soldier class more customisable though.
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I think we're talking past each other here. It doesn't "build character," but it does build an attachment to the characters on your team. There's no intentional character-building from a preset narrative standpoint in XCom. The game is the story and the story is the game. VC is built in a much different manner because of the way it presents its story and characters, and some of that attachment is lost.
 
Brashnir said:
Not as huge as all the time spent cultivating a solid team, keeping them all alive through dozens of missions and outfitting them in gear tuned to their individual abilities. Not even close.

I'm not slagging off VC, but the personal commitment to characters from a gameplay, and thus player, standpoint isn't even marginally comparable.
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I don't consider Xcom troopers as characters, they're just walking numbers to me and if they die I only get angry because that's a waste of resources. Yeah that sounds like a horrible stance but there's not much that differentiates one trooper from another besides their randomized base stats and class.
 
Brashnir said:
I think we're talking past each other here. It doesn't "build character," but it does build an attachment to the characters on your team. There's no intentional character-building from a preset narrative standpoint in XCom. The game is the story and the story is the game. VC is built in a much different manner because of the way it presents its story and characters, and some of that attachment is lost.
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Yeah, I guess so. I guess fundamentally we're disagreeing on what makes the soldiers unique, whether it's through building an actual unique personality or if it's the ability to make each soldier's skillset more unique from each other.
 
demidar said:
I don't consider Xcom troopers as characters, they're just walking numbers to me and if they die I only get angry because that's a waste of resources. Yeah that sounds like a horrible stance but there's not much that differentiates one trooper from another besides their randomized base stats and class.
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I don't disagree, and that's really the root of where I'm coming from. It's exactly that attachment to an in-game resource that separates the two.

And to be clear, a lot of this was toned down a bit in the more recent XCom reboot, and a lot of my feelings on the matter stem from the original game, which I'm incapable of completely removing from the equation, even though I know Patrick is discussing the new one.

There are few things in gaming more devastating than getting a badass group of 12 Schwarzeneggerian monsters on your team only to find out that every single one of them has a low PSI stat two thirds of the way through a game.
 
My account is borked. Tried to grab a subscription renewal and the my billing history is blank. Settings page believes I don't have an account but I have access to all subscriber videos.

While I could probably leave my account in limbo and watch subscriber videos until the end of time for free... /s

I contacted them because I grab a subscription every year. Giantbomb is definitely worth the price of admission.
 
Speaking of Danny, I love his and Andy's 10 Years of WoW feature. I've never played the game in my life, but the stories here are great. Especially the latest episode, that's adorable.
 
Brashnir said:
I don't disagree, and that's really the root of where I'm coming from. It's exactly that attachment to an in-game resource that separates the two.

And to be clear, a lot of this was toned down a bit in the more recent XCom reboot, and a lot of my feelings on the matter stem from the original game, which I'm incapable of completely removing from the equation, even though I know Patrick is discussing the new one.

There are few things in gaming more devastating than getting a badass group of 12 Schwarzeneggerian monsters on your team only to find out that every single one of them has a low PSI stat two thirds of the way through a game.
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Everything going to shit in XCom is akin to building a house of cards and then toppling it because you accidentally exhaled too hard. But that's not inherently worse than attempting to create attachments to characters by giving them personalities (and perhaps gameplay mechanics that back up those personalities).

Still, saying VC characters have less... character... then Xcom troopers is an absurd stance, hypothetically posited or not. Plus the Edy Detachment DLC exists, and you might as well throw in Selvaria's DLC.
 
demidar said:
Everything going to shit in XCom is akin to building a house of cards and then toppling it because you accidentally exhaled too hard. But that's not inherently worse than attempting to create attachments to characters by giving them personalities (and perhaps gameplay mechanics that back up those personalities).

Still, saying VC characters have less... character... then Xcom troopers is an absurd stance, hypothetically posited or not. Plus the Edy Detachment DLC exists, and you might as well throw in Selvaria's DLC.
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I definitely wasn't taking a stance that XCom characters "have more character," because it's a pretty absurd statement for all sorts of reasons. I think we're on the same page on this for the most part.

That said, I just dug my PS3 out of a box and I think I'm going to play some VC. I don't think I ever got around to finishing it the first time.
 
Catching up on Metal Gear Scanlon. I'm up to date on where he stands on MGS2, but I just got up to the Cyborg Ninja fight in MGS1. Hoooollly shit. That was super fucked up. I feel so bad for Drew.
 
Brashnir said:
I definitely wasn't taking a stance that XCom characters "have more character," because it's a pretty absurd statement for all sorts of reasons. I think we're on the same page on this for the most part.

That said, I just dug my PS3 out of a box and I think I'm going to play some VC. I don't think I ever got around to finishing it the first time.
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We're on the same page, I just wanted to conclude my thoughts.

I've already finished VC on PS3 but I will pick it up on Steam when it goes on sale because it comes with the DLC I haven't played before.
 
Antiwhippy said:
Seeing that it's getting closer to the end of the year I eagerly wait and see which moments of the bombcast will be in the This Year compilation cast. Should be an interesting one.
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I think that guy is done making podcasts to be honest. He said he was moving to a quarterly release schedule with one of the quarters landing in September and he released nothing. He's gone radio silent on all social media as well. Hopefully we get something but don't keep your fingers crossed.
 
baconbm said:
I think that guy is done making podcasts to be honest. He said he was moving to a quarterly release schedule with one of the quarters landing in September and he released nothing. He's gone radio silent on all social media as well. Hopefully we get something but don't keep your fingers crossed.
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Seems like such a massive amount of work to make those podcasts, so can't blame the guy if he quit doing it.

edit: Expect a 2/5 at best for WWE 2K15 by Alex, he's not a fan according to Twitter. Fuck you, Yukes.
 
Myggen said:
Seems like such a massive amount of work to make those podcasts, so can't blame the guy if he quit doing it.
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Oh absolutely. He was saying earlier this year that he was in college while he was putting out all those podcasts and he got a real job this year and it took away a lot of his free time.
 
baconbm said:
I think that guy is done making podcasts to be honest. He said he was moving to a quarterly release schedule with one of the quarters landing in September and he released nothing. He's gone radio silent on all social media as well. Hopefully we get something but don't keep your fingers crossed.
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Aw that's a real shame. Still, dude has to do what's best for him.
 
Basileus777 said:
There are about 4 or 5 VC characters that have any real character unless you go digging through personnel profiles.
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The potentials do make a difference though, and each character has unique lines in combat ect.

Even if you don't bother with the personsal files if you go look up the stats and abilities you see that each soldier is indeed unique.

Of course, patrick isn't that deep in yet. And many potentials get unlocked later.
 
patapuf said:
The potentials do make a difference though, and each character has unique lines in combat ect.

Even if you don't bother with the personsal files if you go look up the stats and abilities you see that each soldier is indeed unique.

Of course, patrick isn't that deep in yet. And many potentials get unlocked later.
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plus, the Skies of Arcadia characters came with a ton of personality already!
 
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