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[Felix Lighter]

Vinny seems to get annoyed by some of the questionable tactics that have become common during this generation. I remember he went on a bit of a rant about something similar a while ago but I can't remember the specifics. It may have been retailer specific preorder bonuses.

 

[LCfiner]

All they said was that they used the default male Shepard because he was the best looking model and it fit the voice actor. They didn't say anything about customization being a detriment, they just didn't find the need to use it.

Ah, OK. so sixghost was adding his own opinion about character modification and not referring to comments that were made about it. got it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'm still surprised when I remember that Ryan of all people actually called out other games journalists during one big "publisher says used games are like piracy" brouhaha by pointing out that they (journalists) got to play tons of games year round for free, while a used games buyer is budgeting.

 

[shamanick]

Vinny seems to get irked about some of the questionable tactics that have become common during this generation. I remember he went on a bit of a rant about something similar a while ago but I can't remember the specifics. It may have been retail specific preorder bonuses.

I remember him doing this about the Catwoman day one DLC for Arkham City but he got shot down pretty quickly by either Ryan or Jeff.

 

[Brobzoid]

I found that they are almost always pretty dismissive of any widespread resentment in the gaming community. And to be fair, you will read a lot of garbage on the internet when people are not happy with something, but the GB guys almost always seem to shrug it off as nerd rage and don't try or simply can't see where people are coming from.

I'd be dismissive too, if I got dissension filtered through the GB forum/comments.

 

[sixghost]

I genuinely don't think they're capable of such a discussion. Especially with Ryan running the shows the way he does. Their attitudes, with the exception of maybe Brad, have always been put up with what you get or shut up about it.

And in a really weird sort of mercenary sense, I can kinda respect that. At least they're honest and don't pussyfoot around their position. And with the nature of most nerd rage in general, it really is a pretty healthy response.

I generally appreciate that too. They rarely ever discuss NPD shit, which really helps their podcasts stay listenable past the week they're recorded.

Ah, OK. so sixghost was adding his own opinion about character modification and not referring to comments that were made about it. got it.

paraphrasing, they said the editor does not allow you to create any character that looks as good as the defaults, it's weird to play through the game with your custom shepard then see a completely different person in the trailers, the voice actor fits best with the default.

Is there any other series with a major, named, voiced, main character that allows you to change their appearance so much? It's a really weird decision.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Vinny needs a higher platform. Either that, or more control room minions.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I'd be dismissive too, if I got dissension filtered through the GB forum/comments.

Yeah, I wouldn't single out the GB community, but it doesn't help when the loudest voices are typically the dumbest, which is simply the case with the internet in general. The torch and pitchfork rabble drown out any attempts at a real discussion.

 

[Curufinwe]

I would really like to hear them have a serious conversation about the situation, but if their collective opinion is, if you voice your dissatisfaction with how their handling some things, your nothing but an entitled crybaby, then I could do without it. A lot of times, they just assume we can't see things from the publishers point of view so our opinions are uninformed and invalid.

That's just how they are when it doesn't affect them personally. When dedicated servers were removed from Modern Warfare 2 there was a lot of nonsense from them about how this was just the way of the world going forward, and only entitled crybabies would want anything more than 16 player P2P shooters.

 

[Jb]

Vinny seems to get irked about some of the questionable tactics that have become common during this generation. I remember he went on a bit of a rant about something similar a while ago but I can't remember the specifics. It may have been retail specific preorder bonuses.

Wasn't it for Arkham City? Yeah I remember it surprising me a the time.

It's just so fucking weird in this industry that the press sides more often thant not with the publisher rather than the consumers, and think it's mostly due to how vocal gaming enthusiasts are, in comments, message boards and social networking sites.

The cycle usually is: trailer/news is posted on the web-> gamers react immediatly on forums -> gaming press comments about the gamers' reaction, more often than by mocking it, calling it whining, bitching, entitlement, vocal minority,... (which tells you a lot about the piss poor quality of 75% of gaming websites). Garry Whitta is probably the textbook example of this, but Jeff and Ryan on GB are pretty good at taking his role on the bombcast.

 

[obonicus]

I remember him doing this about the Catwoman day one DLC for Arkham City but he got shot down pretty quickly by either Ryan or Jeff.

I don't remember the details; maybe gamestop was printing new codes for used copies? But Vinny wasn't really able to express why he found it so distasteful. Apparently he had just heard it, and it gave him an immediate gut reaction. I don't remember anyone shutting him down, just not understanding exactly what his reaction was to. (As in: yeah, it's shady, but why is it shadier than stuff that's already being done?)

Edit: I think I remember now. Gamestop was printing catwoman DLC codes for used copies. Vinny had an objection to it because it seemed to violate the spirit of 'project $10', so what's the point? His objection seemed to hinge on publishers being hypocritical about the scarcity of their digital goods, by basically lampshading how the scarcity is totally fabricated. But that's always been the case -- scarcity was never a valid argument in favor of Project $10. And in this case, it was actually beneficial to the customer, as the cost of the DLC codes was being handled by gamestop and WB, not the consumer -- so it didn't seem like a reasonable thing to complain about. Project $10 by itself is much more objectionable, this is more of a lateral step, if not a very slight improvement.

It's just so fucking weird in this industry that the press sides more often thant not with the publisher rather than the consumers, and think it's mostly due to how vocal gaming enthusiasts are, in comments, message boards and social networking sites.

I don't think it's as simple as that. It's more that the gaming enthusiasts usually make asses out of themselves. They may even have a point, but they drown themselves out more often than not, and generally GB replies to the dumbassery. A big part of the dumbness comes from the enthusiasts assuming that they wholly represent 'consumers', so complaints very rarely stay as low-key as 'I don't like it'/'I won't buy it', and instead go to "no one likes it"/"it shouldn't be made". And if you're basically ambivalent about the whole thing, and you see a bunch of people talking as if their extremist opinions represent you, well, you might feel the need to distance yourself from that sort of behavior. Yeah, there's probably more productive ways to do it than calling everyone dumbasses, but that's not how Ryan expresses his opinions publically.

 

[Chuck]

I remember him doing this about the Catwoman day one DLC for Arkham City but he got shot down pretty quickly by either Ryan or Jeff.

Ryan said he was "acting like a child."

 

[shamanick]

I don't think it's as simple as that. It's more that the gaming enthusiasts usually make asses out of themselves. They may even have a point, but they drown themselves out more often than not, and generally GB replies to the dumbassery. A big part of the dumbness comes from the enthusiasts assuming that they wholly represent 'consumers', so complaints very rarely stay as low-key as 'I don't like it'/'I won't buy it', and instead go to "no one likes it"/"it shouldn't be made". And if you're basically ambivalent about the whole thing, and you see a bunch of people talking as if their extremist opinions represent you, well, you might feel the need to distance yourself from that sort of behavior. Yeah, there's probably more productive ways to do it than calling everyone dumbasses, but that's not how Ryan expresses his opinions publically.

That seems to be a large part of the problem. It's easy (and disingenuous) to dismiss an argument because some of the people arguing the point use profanity or act "entitled".

 

[Patryn]

I generally appreciate that too. They rarely ever discuss NPD shit, which really helps their podcasts stay listenable past the week they're recorded.


paraphrasing, they said the editor does not allow you to create any character that looks as good as the defaults, it's weird to play through the game with your custom shepard then see a completely different person in the trailers, the voice actor fits best with the default.

Is there any other series with a major, named, voiced, main character that allows you to change their appearance so much? It's a really weird decision.

But it's a good decision! Part of the reason I love the series is that it's about MY Shepard. If I was just playing Generic White Guy #654, I doubt I'd be as attached.

I think my Shepard (who's a FemShep that looks a lot better than the default FemShep, btw) looks great. I wouldn't want to change ever.

And if you don't want to take advantage of the customization, you don't have to. What's wrong with choices?

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

You guys paraphrasing their ME3 talk has put me off watching this weeks TNT, since I'm a firm believer the first game is massively better than the second and I think their discussion will annoy me!

At least I have Load Your Last Save to watch first!

 

[shadyspace]

Giant Bomb's getting kinda Kevin Smith-y.

 

[Patryn]

Giant Bomb's getting kinda Kevin Smith-y.

How so?

 

[shadyspace]

How so?

In it's dealings with constructive and/or respecting criticism. Mostly Ryan but since he's the face of Giant Bomb it's hard not to have that attitude permeate throughout the entire site.

 

[Data West]

In it's dealings with constructive and/or respective criticism. Mostly Ryan but since he's the face of Giant Bomb it's hard not to have that attitude permeate throughout the entire site.

Kind of the result of having insane fanboys that think everything you like is great and everything you hate is terrible.

 

[LiQuid!]

Yeah there are a lot of REALLY obnoxious Giant Bomb fans.

 

[Mahonay]

You guys have some fascinating conspiracy theories.

Yeah there are a lot of REALLY obnoxious Giant Bomb fans.

I have been trying to post more often in the GB forums. Man, just...man. I think, and hope, it's just because there are a lot of younger fans on those forums. Some of them are just not very bright is all.

 

[shadyspace]

Kind of the result of having insane fanboys that think everything you like is great and everything you hate is terrible.

Yep. It's too bad. I wish Brad was more vocal, he always seems to have his pulse to legitimate concerns of consumers. Patrick's decent at that, as well.

 

[funkystudent]

I always just attributed Ryan and Jeffs attitude to the internet is because they have had alot of dumb internet bullshit happen to them.

The examples that come to mind are that Jeff had the 8.8 stuff and getting death threats sent to his home address. Ryan gets called fat god knows how many times in every video with him in it.

Plus the endless bitching after they under score a game that always happens.

That stuff has to take a tole on there views on the internet community as a whole and probably is the cause of there dismissive attitude.


After so many years of it I can see why they just tune it all out and toss the reasonable and well thought out criticism of the site into the OMG KESSLER SUCKS GET THAT FAT FUCK OFF MY INTERENTZ crowd and just respond to everything the same snarky way.

 

[Jintor]

Well, with Idle Thumbs starting up again, I'll just head over there if I need a break I guess.

 

[Mahonay]

I always just attributed Ryan and Jeffs attitude to the internet is because they have had alot of dumb internet bullshit happen to them.

The examples that come to mind are that Jeff had the 8.8 stuff and getting death threats sent to his home address. Ryan gets called fat god knows how many times in every video with him in it.

Plus the endless bitching after they under score a game that always happens.

That stuff has to take a tole on there views on the internet community as a whole and probably is the cause of there dismissive attitude.


After so many years of it I can see why they just tune it all out and toss the reasonable and well thought out criticism of the site into the OMG KESSLER SUCKS GET THAT FAT FUCK OFF MY INTERENTZ crowd and just respond to everything the same snarky way.

Yep, it's completely understandable to me after watching it unfold over the years.

I'd MUCH rather have them be honest and kind of grumpy rather than constantly having a huge fake smile plastered across their faces and a happy go lucky attitude about every god damn thing like a Geoff Keighley. That shit is just insufferable.

It's easy to complain, but you have to think of what the alternatives are.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I always just attributed Ryan and Jeffs attitude to the internet is because they have had alot of dumb internet bullshit happen to them.

The examples that come to mind are that Jeff had the 8.8 stuff and getting death threats sent to his home address. Ryan gets called fat god knows how many times in every video with him in it.

Plus the endless bitching after they under score a game that always happens.

That stuff has to take a tole on there views on the internet community as a whole and probably is the cause of there dismissive attitude.


After so many years of it I can see why they just tune it all out and toss the reasonable and well thought out criticism of the site into the OMG KESSLER SUCKS GET THAT FAT FUCK OFF MY INTERENTZ crowd and just respond to everything the same snarky way.

I'm sure that is a factor. Those that feel the need to contact them directly are going to be the most extreme on either side of any issue. It's frustrating and it's just the way of things anymore.

 

[LiK]

Well, with Idle Thumbs starting up again, I'll just head over there if I need a break I guess.

need a break?

 

[Mahonay]

I'm sure that is a factor. Those that feel the need to contact them directly are going to be the most extreme on either side of any issue. It's frustrating and it's just the way of things anymore.

That's kind of why I like Jar Time so much. It shows a side of the community that's not absolutely fucking brain dead.

 

[Special J]

anyone figure out what was in the mailed tube?

http://www.giantbomb.com/giant-bomb-mailbag-screaming-cheese-edition/17-3612/

 

[obonicus]

In it's dealings with constructive and/or respecting criticism. Mostly Ryan but since he's the face of Giant Bomb it's hard not to have that attitude permeate throughout the entire site.

I like Kevin Smith as an internet personality and they're nothing alike. Kevin Smith has come to the realization (true or not) that he has a legion of superfans who will support whatever it is he does, so he believes he can eschew the usual channels when putting out product (he has 2mil twitter followers, so he's argued, for instance, that if your publication can't reach more people than that, he doesn't need you -- I think there's a fallacy there, but that's off-topic). So he makes a movie, he doesn't even screen it for critics (critics, in exchange, hate being left out of the loop and become extra savage towards a director who has always received middling-to-bad reviews to begin with). It's a business move that has proven initially successful, but I personally wonder how sustainable it can be.

Ryan doesn't think he has to listen to people complaining to him. He blocks (or pretend-blocks, I'm never sure) people who he thinks are being obnoxious to him on twitter. These things are miles apart. I get that you don't like Ryan, and it's not the first time you've complained about him blocking people on twitter, but by this point I'd expect you to just stop checking his feed.

Also note that not everyone agrees with what construes constructive criticism. For instance, in my opinion your criticism of GB/Ryan in these threads hasn't been particularly constructive. My apologies if your intent wasn't to be constructive.

 

[Mahonay]

Also note that not everyone agrees with what construes constructive criticism. For instance, in my opinion your criticism of GB/Ryan in these threads hasn't been particularly constructive. My apologies if your intent wasn't to be constructive.

Okay I'm glad it's not just me. This all feels a little...catty?

 

[Takiyah]

After so many years of it I can see why they just tune it all out and toss the reasonable and well thought out criticism of the site into the OMG KESSLER SUCKS GET THAT FAT FUCK OFF MY INTERENTZ crowd and just respond to everything the same snarky way.

I wanted to say this, but couldn't sum it up as well as you did.

 

[obonicus]

Okay I'm glad it's not just me. This all feels a little...catty?

There's a lot of cattiness. For instance, I think it was out of line to call out Gary Whitta in one of these threads. He's not a part of Whiskey Media, much less Giant Bomb. The complaint wasn't based on something he said on a podcast/video but instead on his personal twitter. And Whitta is very much a member of NeoGAF. Not like Jeff, in that he shows up to call us all dumbasses when we're being dumbasses, but as in he actually posts in gaming and OT side regularly. Take your beef with him up in PMs.

 

[Jintor]

need a break?

GB's style is very, very different. I can stand a lot of it, but it does get grating after a while and it's at that point I go listen to This American Life or The Bugle or something completely different in tone. Like Idle Thumbs.

I mean despite being two, three, four years out of date at this point every single episode of Idle Thumbs is still really interesting and entertaining to listen to. That's not true of GB or even Tested for that matter.

I love GB, but it's best when it's not actually about videogames and more about... I don't know... food. Or hilarious stories.

 

[Mahonay]

I love GB, but it's best when it's not actually about videogames and more about... I don't know... food. Or hilarious stories.

After a long day at work that's the kind of stuff I really appreciate. Just something to take my mind off things.

 

[obonicus]

GB's style is very, very different. I can stand a lot of it, but it does get grating after a while and it's at that point I go listen to This American Life or The Bugle or something completely different in tone. Like Idle Thumbs.

I mean despite being two, three, four years out of date at this point every single episode of Idle Thumbs is still really interesting and entertaining to listen to. That's not true of GB or even Tested for that matter.

I love GB, but it's best when it's not actually about videogames and more about... I don't know... food. Or hilarious stories.

It's a different focus; they're not trying to be particularly insightful or philsophical about games, and that's what I appreciate (it helps that they enjoy games the way I enjoy games -- superficially and poorly). On the other hand, I think sometimes they break things down a lot better than other places do -- I think Vinny was more on the money about Flower, for instance, than Remo, and I liked that game. (But that may be because I have disdain for many of gaming's 'big questions', the same way GBers do.) But then I really really liked Idle Thumbs early on and found their later stuff unlistenable.

 

[Jintor]

I suppose I'm the inverse then; I don't really enjoy games on a superficial level all that much. Vinny's always struck me as the most deeply-thinking guy on the cast though, trying to figure out in-depth why things affect him in different ways, which is something that to an extent I feel like the rest of the cast tend to gloss over.

I've always disagreed with Jeff on the "Big Questions" issue, but whatever, difference of opinions and whatnot. Doesn't make what he has to say any less worthwhile.

 

[sixghost]

But it's a good decision! Part of the reason I love the series is that it's about MY Shepard. If I was just playing Generic White Guy #654, I doubt I'd be as attached.

I think my Shepard (who's a FemShep that looks a lot better than the default FemShep, btw) looks great. I wouldn't want to change ever.

And if you don't want to take advantage of the customization, you don't have to. What's wrong with choices?

I just can't think of a single other game that has a main character that's so front and center in every advertisement of that game, but let's you push that all aside and create a completely different, worse looking version.

 

[shadyspace]

After a long day at work that's the kind of stuff I really appreciate. Just something to take my mind off things.

If the Bombcast just became a wholesale shoot the shit session it'd easily become my favorite podcast.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I'm watching the Psi-Ops LYLS and jumping in to the boss fight seems like a badddd idea, haha.

It doesn't look as good as Second Sight, but I do want to play it.

 

[Mahonay]

I'm watching the Psi-Ops LYLS and jumping in to the boss fight seems like a badddd idea, haha.

It doesn't look as good as Second Sight, but I do want to play it.

I remember having a ton of fun with the Psi-Ops demo. Never got around to playing the full game.

I thought this Load Your Last Save was hilarious, good idea or not.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Ahahah that "ending"...

20 mins left so not much of the actual game to be shown off methinks. Shame! I like these best when they're slogging through a level!

Edit: haha that gnome thing is best bonus ever!

 

[Mahonay]

Ahahah that "ending"...

20 mins left so not much of the actual game to be shown off methinks. Shame! I like these best when they're slogging through a level!

Hah yeah well that's kind of the point of that feature. They have no idea where the last save is going to load up. We've just been lucky enough that pretty much all of them have been really long until now.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Yeah that's true. This just happened to be a game I would've liked to see more of (eg an actual level or two).

I just need to play it for myself now!

 

[Patryn]

I just can't think of a single other game that has a main character that's so front and center in every advertisement of that game, but let's you push that all aside and create a completely different, worse looking version.

But how does that harm anyone? The original character is still there.

 

[sixghost]

But how does that harm anyone? The original character is still there.

Why do they not let me play as a refrigerator by that logic? 'Does it harm anyone' is a pretty high bar for video game design decisions.

 

[Patryn]

Why do they not let me play as a refrigerator by that logic? 'Does it harm anyone' is a pretty high bar for video game design decisions.

It's the last I'll say on this, but I still fail to see why other players should be denied the chance to do something that they want to do simply because you have the opinion that original characters are ugly. And mark me: A lot of people disagree with you on that opinion.

Keep in mind: The vast majority of players choose to customize their Shepard. 83 percent in fact. So this isn't an obscure feature.

 

[Jintor]

And let me tell you, Ugly Shepard is its own reward. The intense dissonance is amazing.

 

[Brashnir]

Why do they not let me play as a refrigerator by that logic? 'Does it harm anyone' is a pretty high bar for video game design decisions.

Hopefully Volition survives to make Saint's Row 4, and this dream can become a reality.

 

[FStop7]

I found that they are almost always pretty dismissive of any widespread resentment in the gaming community. And to be fair, you will read a lot of garbage on the internet when people are not happy with something, but the GB guys almost always seem to shrug it off as nerd rage and don't try or simply can't see where people are coming from.

Something to keep in mind is that they've all been working at close range to the gaming industry for a long ass time and have probably seen and heard it all before a couple of times over.