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[Rapstah]

Notwithstanding anything else you're talking about, this idea needs to die an immediate death. There is no video game reviews arbitration board defining what a low score means. If you as a reviewer have the best time with a game you've ever had in your life but find the subject matter to be disgustingly abhorrent, you're well within your right to give it as low a score as you want.

Okay.

There is no "A for effort" in the critical evaluation of art or media.

In the critical evaluation of the reviews themselves or of the media that's being reviewed?

I feel that "B for effort" definitely exists for high-profile games that aren't very good. Dragon Age II, for example, I don't think that game got scored on anything but effort. If that had been a Russian game only the same game, I imagine the only people who would be for that game would be weirdos in threads on here going "It's really good!!!" frantically to get others to play it too.

 

[LiK]

OPINIONS.

 

[Willkiller]

Notwithstanding anything else you're talking about, this idea needs to die an immediate death. There is no video game reviews arbitration board defining what a low score means. If you as a reviewer have the best time with a game you've ever had in your life but find the subject matter to be disgustingly abhorrent, you're well within your right to give it as low a score as you want. There is no "A for effort" in the critical evaluation of art or media.

That's just not going to happen though, if you found the subject matter to be "disgustingly abhorrent" you're not going to have the best ever time.

I see your point though.

 

[Dark Octave]

But Braaaaaad... If I can't tell my homies on the web that a game is a cruelty free high score then what do I have?

You're probably mocking me but I have no idea what you're saying.

PREACH ON BROTHA MAN!

Which in more simple terms means: "AAA" games don't get to rely on a score bump due to their production values. The range of scores on games in a healthy critical review arena should vary greatly, reflecting the tastes, experiences, and personality of the reviewer. The situation we have now is the "institutionalization" of the 7-10 review scale. And this must end.

The 7-10 review scale makes sense because it's not often that we get broken games in the AAA market. Most AAA games are pretty good on an overall scale even if they aren't the cream of the crop. I just think a 3/10 is unfair for a game that is actually playable and doesn't make you want to stab your eyes out. All of it should be taken into the score. How does it make sense to say I love everything about this game but I'm offended by this one aspect so 0/10? That's misleading to the reader.

I guess I am arguing and should have quoted rudds on this post but I'm on a cell phone and ugh...

 

[I'm an expert]

So uhm..how bout dem Sim City reviews..

 

[Rapstah]

So uhm..how bout dem Sim City reviews..

It's pretty clear some people actually did or do really enjoy the game.

 

[StuBurns]

Scores should not relate to the technical competency of a game. If a game is broken, you can say so, and if it affected your experience, and it would have, that should affect it's score, but there's no baseline for 'well, this game runs at 30fps most the time, not much screentear, but it's boring and I don't enjoy it, 7/10'. UC3 can be a technical marvel, and be horrible, and in fact it was.

 

[LiK]

It's pretty clear some people actually did or do really enjoy the game.

for the 4 magical hours it worked this week.

 

[rudds]

I think the press should stay neutral until the game is done.

Your existence on the Internet is going to become deeply frustrating then.

 

[Dark Octave]

Scores should not relate to the technical competency of a game. If a game is broken, you can say so, and if it affected your experience, and it would have, that should affect it's score, but there's no baseline for 'well, this game runs at 30fps most the time, not much screentear, but it's boring and I don't enjoy it, 7/10'. UC3 can be a technical marvel, and be horrible, and in fact it was.

So a game's technical feats and production values plays no role on reviews? It's all about gameplay? I'm just trying to understand.

 

[The Wizard]

Okay.

In the critical evaluation of the reviews themselves or of the media that's being reviewed?

I feel that "B for effort" definitely exists for high-profile games that aren't very good. Dragon Age II, for example, I don't think that game got scored on anything but effort. If that had been a Russian game only the same game, I imagine the only people who would be for that game would be weirdos in threads on here going "It's really good!!!" frantically to get others to play it too.

I don't think he was suggesting that type of scoring doesn't exist but rather that, ideally, it shouldn't. Giant Bomb seem to be big advocates of opinion driven reviews and content rather than the "objective" evaluation of games other sites attempt to portray, where a game the author of the review didn't enjoy can still earn a positive review.

 

[Jintor]

Scores should not relate to the technical competency of a game. If a game is broken, you can say so, and if it affected your experience, and it would have, that should affect it's score, but there's no baseline for 'well, this game runs at 30fps most the time, not much screentear, but it's boring and I don't enjoy it, 7/10'. UC3 can be a technical marvel, and be horrible, and in fact it was.

CONTRADICTION

 

[Dr Dogg]

So uhm..how bout dem Sim City reviews..

I think part of the problem is most people put too much stock into the score than the actual content of the review. Half the time I couldn't care less what score any outlet gives to a game as they all have their own ideas of what their values constitute. You'll read some reviews and think the author hated the game but gave it a good score or vice versa and the score plays on your mind more that the actual content of the review.

 

[StuBurns]

So a game's technical feats and production values plays no role on reviews? It's all about gameplay? I'm just trying to understand.

It's all about your experience, and whatever caused that. If a game is technically excellent, and you cared, then it matters. But if you don't care, then it shouldn't. Performance and QA is really irrelevant in the multiplatform world where games perform differently. Is Brad meant to play through Tomb Raider on three platforms to give it scores for it's quality on each? If he does so, should he consider the fact when he plays the last one he's just played the game twice already, and is now very bored of it?

I just don't think technical competency is relevant, when I check out a film review, I don't want them bitching that someone shot on 35mm because they just recently watched The Master and now nothing but 65mm will suffice. If a game is broke, say it, but if it's totally functional, and still crap, rip it apart. It's funny that Brad said no A for effort, because I literally said that a couple of days ago. And I think it's an excellent way to summarize the stance.

CONTRADICTION

No, it's not. The experience is what should define the score, and as much as that is impacted by the technical performance, it should be reflected, but the performance as an objective quality shouldn't impact it at all.

 

[Rapstah]

I don't think he was suggesting that type of scoring doesn't exist but rather that, ideally, it shouldn't. Giant Bomb seem to be big advocates of opinion driven reviews and content rather than the "objective" evaluation of games other sites attempt to portray, where a game the author of the review didn't enjoy can still earn a positive review.

Because the first half of the post was about how there was no standard for what factors into a review and how reviewers are free to choose that on their own, I figured it couldn't be that there's no room for "A for effort". I'm probably just a poor reader.

 

[ThusZarathustra]

So a game's technical feats and production values plays no role on reviews? It's all about gameplay? I'm just trying to understand.

They play an increasingly smaller role as time goes on and technical competency becomes commonplace and technical wizardry and creativity more rare. See the Killzone 4 demo: very technically pretty, but oh so boring.

I'd've thought that was just common knowledge...

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Brad on a scale of 1 to Chuck E. Cheese how fun would you rate your time on NeoGAF?

 

[Rapstah]

One thing that's definitely not decided upon is whether a review should be as much or as little as possible about what experience the reviewer had with the product. Most approaches to that also bring a different view to how important technical issues are.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Brad on a scale of 1 to Chuck E. Cheese how fun would you rate your time on NeoGAF?

I'm going to guess Bullwinkle. He always goes Bullwinkle.

 

[BobTheFork]

Brad, you need to get into youtube videos of Cysts being lanced. I had a large one taken out of my back a few years ago and the dermatologist showed it to me. It ruined my life because now I keep checking for new videos. The human body is a wonderful and fucking disgusting thing!

 

[LiK]

Brad, ever thought about doing a vlog like Jeff and Patrick? i'll watch it.

 

[HoodWinked]

whens bradley may cry?

 

[Technosteve]

Brad Play Dota 2, I'll buy you stuff in game if you do.

 

[Jintor]

No, it's not. The experience is what should define the score, and as much as that is impacted by the technical performance, it should be reflected, but the performance as an objective quality shouldn't impact it at all.

Ah, I see.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

The NWO of Videogames...

Fantastic.

I listened to the Argo part twice, what the hell are you doing Patrick?

He kind of made up for that when he started talking about Rising's ending feeling like Platinum was goofing on Kojima's ability to be full of himself ala Quentin Tarantino. He would not commit to it though. Having loved MGS4 thoroughly, the moment Armstrong walks out of Excelus(sp) it did feel like a parody laughing at the absurdity of the story and how serious MGS4 took itself at points.

 

[StuBurns]

Ah, I see.

I don't know, it's just what I want to see from more places. I don't understand what people get out of 'objective' reviews, lots of games have demos, you don't need to buy a magazine to get the demo anymore, we have nice HD video of every game, betas for lots of multiplayer games. Games can still be of surprising quality, but I think the value of those check list reviews must be practically nothing at this point.

It's no a surprise Old Man Murray is still the thing people go back to when talking about reviews, because it's the furthest anyone went from the check list, even now.

 

[Barry Burton]

God damn you, Patrick! I'm constantly reading "Lara Croft" and hearing "Laura Croft" in my head now. ARRRRGH!

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's kind of a weird role reversal to see Americans adding in the U.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I personally didn't like UC3 at all.

And I bought it day one so I was certainly hopeful.

 

[Jake Tower]

It's kind of a weird role reversal to see Americans adding in the U.

Colour me unsurprised.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

I havent played Tomb Raider yet, but Im glade thier aren't any Rube Goldberg traps or tombs in the game. I would much rather have a tale of survival and a realistic jungle more than those types of puzzles. Because puzzles like that seem like old game design to me.

I understand that the game messes up on some of the story beats, and how they portray Lara, but thats all games. And I feel like the atmosphere in a game always tells a better story than the actual story. Look at Bioshock, some people say that its just a copy of System Shock 2 and that might be true. But man that atmosphere has kept me thinking about that city since it launched.

 

[Jintor]

I don't know, it's just what I want to see from more places. I don't understand what people get out of 'objective' reviews, lots of games have demos, you don't need to buy a magazine to get the demo anymore, we have nice HD video of every game, betas for lots of multiplayer games. Games can still be of surprising quality, but I think the value of those check list reviews must be practically nothing at this point.

It's no a surprise Old Man Murray is still the thing people go back to when talking about reviews, because it's the furthest anyone went from the check list, even now.

I was just confused because I thought what you meant was that technical issues shouldn't matter at all, but you were just linking it in to personal experiences which is for subjective reviews certainly the most important thing.

 

[Jake Tower]

I havent played Tomb Raider yet, but Im glade thier aren't any Rube Goldberg traps or tombs in the game. I would much rather have a tale of survival and a realistic jungle more than those types of puzzles. Because puzzles like that seem like old game design to me.

Here's some game-play footage to help you decide if you want to try it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgozRTq8M_U

 

[mattiewheels]

Brad on a scale of 1 to Chuck E. Cheese how fun would you rate your time on NeoGAF?

Showbiz Pizza.

 

[Meatvillain]

I havent played Tomb Raider yet, but Im glade thier aren't any Rube Goldberg traps or tombs in the game. I would much rather have a tale of survival and a realistic jungle more than those types of puzzles. Because puzzles like that seem like old game design to me.

I wouldn't really say the game is about survival or a realistic jungle either, they are elements of the game/story, but not as important as Squeenix's marketing have made them out to be.

Personally, I fucking love game-ass-game design like those sort of puzzles. Loved Tomb Raider, but totally would have welcomed more Tomb Raiding, I'm sure we'll get more into that in the next game (which I can't wait for, first time I've ever said that about a Tomb Raider game).

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I havent played Tomb Raider yet, but Im glade thier aren't any Rube Goldberg traps or tombs in the game. I would much rather have a tale of survival and a realistic jungle more than those types of puzzles. Because puzzles like that seem like old game design to me.

I understand that the game messes up on some of the story beats, and how they portray Lara, but thats all games. And I feel like the atmosphere in a game always tells a better story than the actual story. Look at Bioshock, some people say that its just a copy of System Shock 2 and that might be true. But man that atmosphere has kept me thinking about that city since it launched.

In other words, fun to play?

 

[sikkinixx]

Brad, you need to get into youtube videos of Cysts being lanced. I had a large one taken out of my back a few years ago and the dermatologist showed it to me. It ruined my life because now I keep checking for new videos. The human body is a wonderful and fucking disgusting thing!

*internet high five* I'm livin' that shit right now. Back is all bandaged up and sore as f-u-c-k. I saw the gauze pile after the doc had lanced it... looking at my pile of pus and blood was not so fun.

 

[Htown]

I havent played Tomb Raider yet, but Im glade thier aren't any Rube Goldberg traps or tombs in the game. I would much rather have a tale of survival and a realistic jungle more than those types of puzzles. Because puzzles like that seem like old game design to me.

As opposed to shooting people, which is new game design?

 

[inky]

Your existence on the Internet is going to become deeply frustrating then.

Oh man, this sentence didn't end the way I hoped it would.

As opposed to shooting people, crafting, cinematic set-pieces, perks, exp, detective vision, brutal kill animations, etc. which is new and original game design?

fixed.

 

[ultron87]

So is the Mass Effect DLC at all like they talked about or worth playing?

 

[eznark]

I fucking lost it when Vinny said "50 50 chance either it happens or it doesn't"

The people on the plane thought I was insane.

 

[Salsa]

Brad, what you're not realizing is that Kingdom Rush is arguably the first popular game made in my country Uruguay. First one that "made it" internationally. Buddy of mine was part of the dev team.

Keep playing man, you are sustaining the future efforts of the Uruguayan game industry

DO IT FOR US

 

[Nose Master]

Jeff representing that taste. MGS2 and 4 are fucking great. Everyone talks up MGS3's writing / characters, but they are shit. Boss is the only decent character in that entire game, including BB. The villains are so dumb and shallow, even for an MGS game. Do Fury/End/Pain(?) get any lines of actual dialogue outside of "IT HURTS SO GOOD"?

 

[catotheyounger]

Jeff representing that taste. MGS2 and 4 are fucking great. Everyone talks up MGS3's writing / characters, but they are shit. Boss is the only decent character in that entire game, including BB. The villains are so dumb and shallow, even for an MGS game. Do Fury/End/Pain(?) get any lines of actual dialogue outside of "IT HURTS SO GOOD"?

Absolutely, MGS4 is the best game where someone shits their pants; barely besting Don't Shit Your Pants by a hair.

 

[Jhoan]

The bed bug talk and the tomato juice shower discussion had me rolling with laughter. As someone who's had bed bugs in the past, those things are truly the stuff of nightmares. Once you get it, you can kiss your sanity good bye; the thought of knowing that something is sucking your blood will make you lose sleep.

What scares me even more is that as a New Yorker as well, I get super scared that I'm going to get it again every time I sit on a surface made out of cloth, wood or fuzzy material and get in a crowded train. Those things are no joke.

Great discussions as always. I'm convinced that Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag was supposed to be Assassin's Creed 3 but was changed to a numbered sequel so that it would sell.

I haven't played Metal Gear Rising nor Metal Gear Solid 4 (I read all the spoilers for it and saw the famous Nanomachines video), but the Metal Gear Solid series has always been wacky and over the top. The original one was more grounded in reality due to the more believable plot and political intrigue. However, the recurring theme of taking down bipedal WMD's in every game takes away from it. On the other hand, like Ryan, if players accept Kojima's reality, then they're pretty good in that aspect. The fact that the Big Dog is something straight out of Metal Gear Solid gives me goosebumps in a bad way.

 

[Quentyn]

So is the Mass Effect DLC at all like they talked about or worth playing?

Yes, it is almost exactly like they wished it to be. It really feels like a Star Trek away mission. Best thing Bioware has done in a long time. I am not quite sure yet, but I think I would rate it even higher than Shadow Broker. It doesn't fix the ending or anything, but if you like the characters of Mass Effect you might want to check it out. Nemesis_ wrote a great review in the OT.

 

[Typographenia]

What scares me even more is that as a New Yorker as well, I get super scared that I'm going to get it again every time I sit on a surface made out of cloth, wood or fuzzy material and get in a crowded train. Those things are no joke.

I'm already a very paranoid person, but that would easily push me over the edge.

 

[so1337]

He kind of made up for that when he started talking about Rising's ending feeling like Platinum was goofing on Kojima's ability to be full of himself ala Quentin Tarantino. He would not commit to it though. Having loved MGS4 thoroughly, the moment Armstrong walks out of Excelus(sp) it did feel like a parody laughing at the absurdity of the story and how serious MGS4 took itself at points.

I didn't get that impression at all. I think you're giving them way too much credit. It was just Platinum being Platinum, or in other words, over the top and exceedingly dumb.

I love the game, though.

 

[StuBurns]

I thought Kojima Productions wrote Rising, and produced the prerecorded cutscenes?

 

[rudds]

Brad, what you're not realizing is that Kingdom Rush is arguably the first popular game made in my country Uruguay. First one that "made it" internationally. Buddy of mine was part of the dev team.

Keep playing man, you are sustaining the future efforts of the Uruguayan game industry

DO IT FOR US

Please tell your friend I need his game so bad I don't know what to do with myself.

Also cloud saves would be nice.