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[ShockingAlberto]

I have to disagree here. It's a serious mistake if we aren't comfortable criticizing bad behavior (no matter the "side") because it could embolden the other.

He can say what he likes and be comfortable with it, but I think it harms his overall point. I'm not going "Oh no, we almost had a point on the scoreboard, but then he ruined it!" I feel like that line was unnecessary to the comment overall and will provide unintended consequences. The lesson "Okay, everyone step back" will not be taken as intended here.

I'm against GG, but what do you want me to do? I mean pretend I'm a media site like GB. Or hell a regular person? React to every event? Attack those on the other side? Make fun of them? Explain please.

Not really clear on your meaning, sorry.

If you were press, I'd want you to condemn what's happening. That is what I would personally want. You can choose to do whatever you like, but I think the best thing for just us regular people to do is not let Gamergate hijack the conversation.

 

[megalowho]

Can we get Jeff's reply in this thread added to the OP?

It's personal information and out there if folks seek it out, no need for it to be front and center. People have a right to criticize no matter the context, just like Jeff has a right to focus on his family in the face of said criticism.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

We (the royal we, literally everyone who condemns the horseshit tactics that GG is using) can absolutely have a real discussion about ethics in games writing & journalism. But this is not something anyone involved with GG has brought up, and in fact is a goal that GG is actively working against by trying to sever advertisers from sites that post honest reviews that they disagree with.

Hell, just last week there was an awards reception funded by games publishers to pat UK writers on the back for being their mouthpieces. Ubisoft gave a bunch of writers free tablets; later, had them review Watch_Dogs on their time. The "Press Sneak Fuck" debacle. The Rab Florence debacle. GG has said nothing about these things because they are the status quo that GG desperately is clawing onto; instead focusing on disempowering women, particularly those who make games independently.



Nobody has said this. Various criticism is saying "look, our shit is fucked up; here's how it can be less fucked up," and some critics feel that our shit is more fucked up than others. But nobody has said that every-actual-thing is a slight against minorities and women in gaming. This is the knee-jerk reaction that people have when they start to understand that there is a problem but don't want to accept that they unconsciously have had a hand in building it.

I guess it could have been at the formation, but since the hashtag, it has just been sexism and attacks. I believe anyone against GJ abandoned ship. GG is just a rotten, shitty movement to troll people now, by 4chan and Reddit and a mouthpiece for harrasment.

 

[jakonovski]

Most people never speak up unless it's something that's a direct threat to their way of life. So it's a really, really bad idea to start demanding that everyone speak up or be labeled bad guy.

 

[Shingro]

I think in a space where the offenders are literally untouchable (due to the nature of the internet) Silence is the only tool in the box with a hope of working.

There's a lot of people making equivelents to real world spaces where people have their own names and faces on. This isn't even close to the nature of this item.

Lets assume the enemy goal is to

harass women in the games industry
make women feel unsafe in gaming
get evidence they're causing pain and anger for their power trip.

what do these responses do?
Signal boosting their harassments
Accenting how badly people have been hurt
Getting very upset over how terrible the things they say are.
Witch hunting amoung the innocent.

Basically, everyone's been unilaterally been giving the harassers exactly what they want. Gaming feels more dangerous to women then ever, the harassment dominates every headline in and outside gaming.

Remember, the historical meaning of trolling is not "guy under a bridge" it is "Laying out bait and hoping for a catch" Read patrick's worth reading article and find the "confessions of a former troll" or find his exchange with Shawn Elliot about this very topic. Silence isn't a 'fair' answer, but on the internet it's the only answer to those that trive on negative attention.

In context of that, I hope people can understand how silence, or a supporting and positive reinforcement of the harassed is a better choice.

Or if you really can't, if you're ideologically committed to "If we tell them they're being mean they'll leave someday" at least understand that other people feel there's a better way. Personally, I fear we've made women in gaming so enticing as a "terrorist target" to make the most people upset that they'll be subject to more harassment then ever.

 

[Ramblin]

Not sure I understand this.

I'm just saying that the baggage that comes with this hobby is increasingly not worth it.

 

[vcc]

Remember the good ol' days when you were embarrassed to be a gamer because it just wasn't considered cool? Or even when it was just embarrassingly juvenile? Now it's downright hostile. It's disgusting. I'm glad I haven't made the leap to the next generation yet. I'm not sure this industry deserves our time and money.

Maybe it's my age, I'm 35. I have never been embarrassed to be a gamer. My parents implied I should be but I've always had friends and social groups who game. It wasn't frowned upon by my peers. It's even more pro-gaming with my younger brothers social group. For me mostly the guys played. For him EVERYONE plays.

Not sure why you feel it's 'downright hostile' when it's as pro-gamer as it's ever been. I think you're alluding to the 'gamers are dead' nonsense. That was gamers calling out a small segment of gamers. Specifically the gamers in #GG. #GG is only a tiny fraction of gamers.

 

[LurkerPrime]

It's hard to believe that some of these more extreme-minded people really, well, believe the things they're saying. Like, their minds are wrapping around from concerted troll into authentic belief.

On top of this, the fervor with which they attack people is disturbing... I'm honestly surprised the police or something haven't gotten more involved with all of this. That may well be the one consequence of this whole movement (both sides): harsher policing of cyberbullying and cyber-crimes in general.

Can we get Jeff's reply in this thread added to the OP?

Yeah, for anyone in this thread unaware: MonsterDunk is Jeff Gerstmann.

At some point it's a personal note that would probably be taken by people as something of an excuse (and it's something that people involved in the Giant Bomb community are already a little more aware of), but I had a death in my family last month that took 100% of my attention away from anything happening in games or the internet. It's made a lot of the "WHY AREN'T YOU CONDEMNING THIS AS FORCEFULLY AS I AM RIGHT NOW" things that have been slung my way over the last chunk of time have a fairly nasty tinge to it. It's also left me quite disappointed by the people who automatically assume that not saying anything means that I/we were somehow complicit or that we stood in approval of various things. Maybe that would have made that entire point make more sense had it been included, but at some point my personal life is just that... my personal life.

People can argue all they want about the timing, and obviously there's no way to please everyone, but there you go.

 

[Lime]

Geez, people really get upset. I hope I haven't hurt anyone by suggesting that diversifying would be a good idea - if I did, I'm sorry.

Look, it's cool that GB and others *finally* speak up about this and to some extent condemn Gamergate. I appreciate what they are doing. Thanks a lot.

But my posts in this thread are suggestions on how it could be better and how they could improve themselves in the future. These are:

1. Please condemn hate campaigns within your culture sooner. I can't believe it had to be on the frontcover of NYT before the games media got off their asses. Comparatively, as soon as the release date of the next AAA game is released, the news spread like wildfire.

2. Being silent does not help or improve a situation where people are victims of harassment. Making a stand in a space where you have power and influence can do a ton of good for everyone!

3. In case you want to make video games coverage more diverse and have different viewpoints, then signal boost, include or even hire different people with different backgrounds and different experiences. Remaining stagnant and being homogenous can result in cases where you dont notice or are aware of specific aspects. Relinquish some of your power and give platform to people usually marginalized in the games industry and culture.

The above are the things I am saying. I fail to see why they should be so controversial.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Exactly. Or even a stance that isn't neutral, but believes getting more and more people playing "the game" is the intent of the people we think are acting monstrously, and we deliberately don't engage them in the terms they've chosen. No more than we'd engage a child having a tantrum.

This is one of the elements of the editorial I thought was most important.

Again, god bless you Gestault.

 

[entremet]

It certainly did work that way for occupy wallstreet. Once they were ignored by the press and general public they stopped.

Occupy Wall Street was taken care by violent action from the NYPD.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Who said anything about my opinion being swayed? What is it with you assuming things and putting words in peoples mouth like you did that paragraph? I disagree with gamergate, it doesn't mean I have to agree with how the other side displays their message either, IE 'You're against us and enabling death threats if you remain silent.'



Look at all these false equivalences! People being forced to take showers? People being nice to others? What are you talking about? You're saying that people who dont' say anything are equivalent to people who don't take showers? What are you even talking about anymore?

*raises eyebrow*

Okay, I feel like we got off on the wrong foot here. Here is my position:

- These people thrive on silence and take it as tacit approval. They can not argue with people being against them.

- In that sense, yes, silence is enabling them. It allows them to add veneers of credibility to shield the madness.

- People can choose to be neutral or whatever. That's their prerogative. But neutrality here isn't "no stance." It is a stance that inherently allows louder people more space to be loud and, right now, those loud people are doing and saying awful things.

Lime quoted this post from another thread before, but I want to repost this image:

To me, this is the price of silence and that's heartbreaking.

 

[Surface of Me]

Geez, people really get upset. I hope I haven't hurt anyone by suggesting that diversifying would be a good idea - if I did, I'm sorry.

Look, it's cool that GB and others *finally* speak up about this and to some extent condemn Gamergate. I appreciate what they are doing. Thanks a lot.

But my posts in this thread are suggestions on how it could be better and how they could improve themselves in the future. These are:

1. Please condemn hate campaigns within your culture sooner. I can't believe it had to be on the frontcover of NYT before the games media got off their asses. Meanwhile, as soon as the release date of the next AAA game is released, the news spread like wildfire.

2. Being silent does not help or improve a situation where people are victims of harassment. Making a stand in a space where you have power and influence can do a ton of good for everyone!

3. In case you want to make video games coverage more diverse and have different viewpoints, then signal boost, include or even hire different people with different backgrounds and different experiences. Remaining stagnant and being homogenous can result in cases where you dont notice or are aware of specific aspects. Relinquish some of your power and give platform to people usually marginalized in the games industry and culture.

The above are the things I am saying. I fail to see why they should be so controversial.

1 & 2 go together, there is a fundamental difference in how people see to combat the GG people, you cant really say that one is better than the other. Both have their arguments on why their stance is a good one. 3 is just ignorant to what GB is entirely.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I think there was a time where silence was an appropriate response, towards the beginning. They were just a bunch of cunts harassing an indie dev, the last thing they needed was a fucking platform for a glorified /v/ raid.

But after it stopped being about Zoe Quinn and became something that targeted all women and feminist influences in the industry, it became a much larger problem that deserved to be addressed.

 

[BlastProcessing]

At some point it's a personal note that would probably be taken by people as something of an excuse (and it's something that people involved in the Giant Bomb community are already a little more aware of), but I had a death in my family last month that took 100% of my attention away from anything happening in games or the internet. It's made a lot of the "WHY AREN'T YOU CONDEMNING THIS AS FORCEFULLY AS I AM RIGHT NOW" things that have been slung my way over the last chunk of time have a fairly nasty tinge to it. It's also left me quite disappointed by the people who automatically assume that not saying anything means that I/we were somehow complicit or that we stood in approval of various things. Maybe that would have made that entire point make more sense had it been included, but at some point my personal life is just that... my personal life.

People can argue all they want about the timing, and obviously there's no way to please everyone, but there you go.

First I want to say that I am very sorry for your loss, as someone who has been there, I know how empty statements like that can seem, but it's what we humans do I guess. I also want to say that Giantbomb is a site I hold the highest respect for.

I think a lot of the "Why aren't you talking about this!?" sentiment, wasn't about you in particular as it was about Giantbomb proper. I felt like an editorial policy to deal with the subject very lightly. The fact that the site is built around personalities leads readers (rightly or wrongly) to feel a personal connection to you guys. When something big like this happens, it feels odd to not hear commentary on it.

Personally, when I think about the role silence plays in gender dynamics, I always go back to this quote from Inga Muscio

Silence is the unlocked door through which intruders enter and pillage the sacred temple of womankind.

But there is no black and white way to deal with this sort of thing. If there was we would have fixed it long ago.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I am most disturbed of people than don't reflect about their dreams or desires, being honest. God knows I spend 6 years thinking about it.

 

[Auctopus]

To me, this is the price of silence and that's heartbreaking.

Yep, larger publications should've spoke up sooner. Part of me thinks the only reason they responded once it hit the NYT is because people started looking in this industry's direction and the big websites had to suck in their belly.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Also, for the record, an analogy isn't a false equivalency. It's an analogy.

 

[Surface of Me]

Also, for the record, an analogy isn't a false equivalency. It's an analogy.

There can be bad analogies though.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

There can be bad analogies though.

Sure. But the term for that is a bad analogy.

 

[TheOddOne]

People used Ryan to further their fucking agenda. Fucking disgusting.



Edit: posted already, but damn did it fucking piss me off.

 

[vcc]

Yep, larger publications should've spoke up sooner. Part of me thinks the only reason they responded once it hit the NYT is because people started looking in this industry's direction and the big websites had to suck in their belly.

Patrick Klepek and Alex Navarro have been pretty vocal. Jeff Gerstmann expressed disgust over it pretty early as well.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Oh my god.

I am disgusted by this comment. I hope that was just some troll trying to get him to react angrily and not someone who honestly believes that.

If you go to the places Gamergaters hang out, it is a super common sentiment. It is beyond disgusting.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Geez, people really get upset. I hope I haven't hurt anyone by suggesting that diversifying would be a good idea - if I did, I'm sorry.

Look, it's cool that GB and others *finally* speak up about this and to some extent condemn Gamergate. I appreciate what they are doing. Thanks a lot.

But my posts in this thread are suggestions on how it could be better and how they could improve themselves in the future. These are:

1. Please condemn hate campaigns within your culture sooner. I can't believe it had to be on the frontcover of NYT before the games media got off their asses. Comparatively, as soon as the release date of the next AAA game is released, the news spread like wildfire.

2. Being silent does not help or improve a situation where people are victims of harassment. Making a stand in a space where you have power and influence can do a ton of good for everyone!

3. In case you want to make video games coverage more diverse and have different viewpoints, then signal boost, include or even hire different people with different backgrounds and different experiences. Remaining stagnant and being homogenous can result in cases where you dont notice or are aware of specific aspects. Relinquish some of your power and give platform to people usually marginalized in the games industry and culture.

The above are the things I am saying. I fail to see why they should be so controversial.

Now you're going into some seriously political stuff about the hiring practices and reality and various -isms and counter -isms. 'Relinguish your power' sounds so damn werid to me. I don't think you know who or what GB is in general. Also what makes you think hiring different people will automatically add diversity? Will people of different gender or race automatically review something in a new way? Various freelancers are different gender and races, are they also part of the employee part right?

Not to mention, I love the 'loaded' post.

 

[Ramblin]

Maybe it's my age, I'm 35. I have never been embarrassed to be a gamer. My parents implied I should be but I've always had friends and social groups who game. It wasn't frowned upon by my peers. It's even more pro-gaming with my younger brothers social group. For me mostly the guys played. For him EVERYONE plays.

Not sure why you feel it's 'downright hostile' when it's as pro-gamer as it's ever been. I think you're alluding to the 'gamers are dead' nonsense. That was gamers calling out a small segment of gamers. Specifically the gamers in #GG. #GG is only a tiny fraction of gamers.

To me, this is the price of silence and that's heartbreaking.

That's why I feel it's hostile. I understand that it's a deranged few. The problem is shit smears. I've been around too long (older than 35) and had to defend this hobby too many times.

 

[vcc]

If you go to the places Gamergaters hang out, it is a super common sentiment. It is beyond disgusting.

/r/kotakuinaction bubbles up to page 3 or 4 in reddits /r/all and everything I wonder in I'm shocked to see what is written there. I mean it sounds more like a cult than a 'movement'. They have their own jargon, everybody else is the 'enemy', they talk about conspiracies to keep them down etc...

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

At some point it's a personal note that would probably be taken by people as something of an excuse (and it's something that people involved in the Giant Bomb community are already a little more aware of), but I had a death in my family last month that took 100% of my attention away from anything happening in games or the internet. It's made a lot of the "WHY AREN'T YOU CONDEMNING THIS AS FORCEFULLY AS I AM RIGHT NOW" things that have been slung my way over the last chunk of time have a fairly nasty tinge to it. It's also left me quite disappointed by the people who automatically assume that not saying anything means that I/we were somehow complicit or that we stood in approval of various things. Maybe that would have made that entire point make more sense had it been included, but at some point my personal life is just that... my personal life.

People can argue all they want about the timing, and obviously there's no way to please everyone, but there you go.

Family is always first than politics. I know how it feels to lose a dad.

Also, thank you for the letter

 

[mhs004]

I have a killer headache and can barley read. Can someone summarize gamer gate kind or shortly?

 

[kingocfs]

I was originally of the mind that saying anything at all in regards to the rampant hate speech would only serve to fan the flames, but I have come to agree with the notion that figures in this industry with a soap box to stand on should take the opportunity to remind everyone what it means to be a mature individual.

I still don't believe it will necessarily help much in shrinking this directionless and hateful hive mind. It's anonymous and it's easy and it will continue for as long as "they" want it to. But it's nothing but good for giants like Jeff to send the message to girls and women who want to contribute to this awesome medium that they are as welcomed now as they have ever been.

 

[ilikecandy]

We (the royal we, literally everyone who condemns the horseshit tactics that GG is using) can absolutely have a real discussion about ethics in games writing & journalism. But this is not something anyone involved with GG has brought up, and in fact is a goal that GG is actively working against by trying to sever advertisers from sites that post honest reviews that they disagree with.

Is this the narrative being pushed? That they were going after websites who gave a game they might like a less than stellar review?

You don't think, instead, they were going after websites for posting the "all straight white male gamers are racist and sexist assholes" type articles?

 

[Noaloha]

It's personal information and out there if folks seek it out, no need for it to be front and center. People have a right to criticize no matter the context, just like Jeff has a right to focus on his family in the face of said criticism.

On the one hand, I'm inclined to concede to your point, as I agree the article can stand on its own. On the other hand, I'm wondering "why let it stand on its own?" when there's extra context that Jeff himself offered in this very thread. I feel that too often the internet perceives industry figures as operating within impossibly sterile circumstances, with us dissecting their words or actions on a lengthy table of privileged hindsight.

Dunno. When some / half / the majority of the thread's discussion is likely to revolve around how soon or late the dish was served rather than what's on the actual plate, maybe Jeff's reply will enable us to raise the level of that discourse.

 

[Askherserenity]

Yep, larger publications should've spoke up sooner. Part of me thinks the only reason they responded once it hit the NYT is because people started looking in this industry's direction and the big websites had to suck in their belly.

Can anyone please tell me what "speaking out" about this matter earlier would have done to fix anything?

Do you think some asshole reading that IGN does not condone death threats will make him change his mind on anything?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

*raises eyebrow*

Okay, I feel like we got off on the wrong foot here. Here is my position:

- These people thrive on silence and take it as tacit approval. They can not argue with people being against them.

- In that sense, yes, silence is enabling them. It allows them to add veneers of credibility to shield the madness.

- People can choose to be neutral or whatever. That's their prerogative. But neutrality here isn't "no stance." It is a stance that inherently allows louder people more space to be loud and, right now, those loud people are doing and saying awful things.

Lime quoted this post from another thread before, but I want to repost this image:

To me, this is the price of silence and that's heartbreaking.

-Let them thrive on that silence. Then people will stop following them because they're not going to get any reactions. And their goal isn't to argue against people, it's to be as loud as possible. If you're trying to bring a debate into their mud slinging contest, who do you think the clear winner will be?

-Silence isn't enabling them-It's saying 'We don't really care what you have to say.' How do you think they feel seeing all the 'note from the editor' pop up yesterday? Suddenly everything they've done up to this point is...what's that word...that word that means that their existence is verified, therefore they'll get louder....there's a word for it, it's lost on me now.

-As for being neutral....you can take a side and post as much, but guess what? GG is still going to be louder. You can be silent, and obviously they're going to be louder-but you can make an article condemning them, and guess what? They're still going to be louder! Suddenly you're shouting at your lungs trying to stop GG, and they're just shouting even louder and you've gone down to their level.

And that quote lime posted? Nothing in that does the student who wrote to Patrick say anything about 'I'm disheartened that nobody is saying anything about women being threatened.' Read it again-

She talks about being disheartened by the threats. By how women are being treated in the industry. Guess what-With or without Gamergate, the industry is only starting to accept women seriously as possible game developers. Up until now, it's remained a very 'Boys club' sort of deal-And even now there will be some time before it becomes a common occurrence of women being respected. How long ago was it when Jade Raymond produced Assassins Creed, and people made offhand comments about her? I'm sure even on Gaf comments like that went by 7 years ago.

To me, this is the price of silence and that's heartbreaking.

Once more-This is the price of the industry. If she didn't see the threats from GG, she would have felt the pressure of being a woman working in a male dominated industry. An industry that is relatively young and relatively taking it's first baby steps into equality.

 

[vcc]

That's why I feel it's hostile. I understand that it's a deranged few. The problem is shit smears. I've been around too long (older than 35) and had to defend this hobby too many times.

Yeah, it always seems really hostile to the figures within gaming. I mean the senior staff at ME3 got death threats. Over a bad ending. It seems so much worse when it's women figures.

 

[The Illiterati]

Silence is complicity when it comes to matters of clear-cut sexism.

If you notice someone terrorizing another person at your workplace or school or what-have-you, and you do not speak up or help or support, but simply just stand there, you are enabling the transgressor.

I hope you don't think Jeff's letter is good thanks to its worst and weakest paragraph.

The internet isn't my workplace. I hate what people are doing to innocent people involved in the games industry. But it's not my crusade. So yeah, I'll remain silent.

 

[RiccochetJ]

To be honest, I agree and was the exact same way, but I got over it, because disagreeing with GamerGate is the point (especially as it has become more warped and any good will more exploited), not someone using it as a platform for their fringe beliefs.

How long did it take you? Because I'm extremely annoyed at the moment.

 

[EVOL 100%]

I can't believe that this is still going on tbh and I have no idea what this 'movement' is supposed to be about. And it's been on the fucking New York Times!

Corrupt journalism? 'Social Justice Warriors'? Just an excuse to hate on different people? I have no idea. I'd wager a guess that a lot of the people who are part of it have no idea what it's supposed to be about either

 

[Gestault]

I mean the senior staff at ME3 got death threats. Over a bad ending. It seems so much worse when it's women figures.

I don't mean this flippantly, but how exactly do you quantify it being worse for women? If the answer is simply there's an easier set of emotional "weapons" in our culture, in effect having more "go-to" gendered insults against women, I understand. But I really dislike this idea of death threats, harassment and violence against family members being "worse" for one kind of person, at least without a solid statement of what that means.

 

[vcc]

I have a killer headache and can barley read. Can someone summarize gamer gate kind or shortly?

Segments of gamers are angry that some people have feminist opinions.

Started out with a gossipy 'conspiracy' about a indie 'developer' named zoe quinn and a supposed salacious relationship with a single writer and some other guys.

Initially the claim was that Quinn used sex to get exposure and profit for her text based game.

It then targeted other people who have similar opinions but it was the angriest at women that are related to gaming.

 

[SmokyDave]

Typically well measured and genuine stuff from Jeff.

I would go a step further and state that if they *really* cared about women in games, maybe they'd hire or signal boost them instead of their exclusive white boys' club.

You make me weigh up how much I want to keep my GAF account. Seriously.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I have a killer headache and can barley read. Can someone summarize gamer gate kind or shortly?

I decided to make a summary that's really quick and succinct.

 

[vcc]

I don't mean this flippantly, but how exactly do you quantify it being worse for women? If the answer is simply there's an easier set of emotional "weapons" in our culture, in effect having more "go-to" gendered insults against women, I understand. But I really dislike this idea of death threats, harassment and violence against family members being "worse" for one kind of person, at least without a solid statement of what that means.

Well, it seems to die down for men. Outrage at someone like Jonathan Blow doesn't seem to sustain itself. But the Anita Sarkeesian seems to go on forever.

 

[JDSN]

Its good and kinda sad that it was up to a non gaming newspaper to bring GamerGate into the spotlight, now sites scared of backlash or shorta disinterested into an examination feel more compelled to do so. While the "Silence isnt complicity" is problematic and unfortunate at best at least its generation a conversation between writers.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I have a killer headache and can barley read. Can someone summarize gamer gate kind or shortly?

The Dark Side is winning... Hate, fear, or anger are coursing through all involved.

That's about as short as I can crush the summary.

 

[mhs004]

Segments of gamers are angry that some people have feminist opinions.

Started out with a gossipy 'conspiracy' about a indie 'developer' named zoe quinn and a supposed salacious relationship with a single writer and some other guys.

Initially the claim was that Quinn used sex to get exposure and profit for her text based game.

It then targeted other people who have similar opinions but it was the angriest at women that are related to gaming.

I decided to make a summary that's really quick and succinct.

Thanks alot guys.

So people are just that stupid? How can one be against feminism? It blows my mind.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Its good and kinda sad that it was up to a non gaming newspaper to bring GamerGate into the spotlight, now sites scared of backlash or shorta disinterested into an examination feel more compelled to do so. While the "Silence isnt complicity" is problematic and unfortunate at best at least its generation a conversation between writers.

Read Jeff post above (MonsterDunk).

 

[Debasertron]

Earlier in the thread, I know there was the sentiment of "Just ignore it, it'll go away". But honestly I don't think it will unless the silent majority speaks up against all of this. What is going on is atrocious, and it makes me ashamed to be a part of this community. Obviously this is nothing that hasn't been said before, but more people need to speak up against it. Otherwise it will never change and the harassment will never stop.

 

[hodayathink]

*raises eyebrow*

Okay, I feel like we got off on the wrong foot here. Here is my position:

- These people thrive on silence and take it as tacit approval. They can not argue with people being against them.

- In that sense, yes, silence is enabling them. It allows them to add veneers of credibility to shield the madness.

I disagree with this part. I sincerely think that, as a group, they want attention much more than they want approval, and silence is an attempt to deprive them of that attention.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I disagree with this part. I sincerely think that, as a group, they want attention much more than they want approval, and silence is an attempt to deprive them of that attention.

Pretty much.

Even if the whole world condemned them as one, they're still going to keep being loud for kicks and giggles, because suddenly they know they can get people annoyed by the things they say.

 

[Gestault]

I sincerely think that, as a group, they want attention much more than they want approval, and silence is an attempt to deprive them of that attention.

Exactly this.