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[bodyofanamerican]

Oh man. http://twitter.com/nicknotned could end up being delicious the next few days.

 

[Chittagong]

Seriously. Wtf?

I haven't actually been paying attention to this thread, so I don't know if it's here, but I have definitely seen anger at someone daring to leak an apple product elsewhere. Along with a certain degree of revelry in seeing a company punished for doing so, and a sudden and inexplicable near universal hatred of this particular site that I'd never ever seen expressed before.

I think most were completely ok with the leak until the post where the outed the dude who lost the phone, making him the laughing stock of silicon valley. and the only reason they did that was because they were butthurt from people saying the phone was a japanese knock-off.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Oh man. http://twitter.com/nicknotned could end up being delicious the next few days.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1795

oh snap.

 

[LCfiner]

Seriously. Wtf?

I haven't actually been paying attention to this thread, so I don't know if it's here, but I have definitely seen anger at someone daring to leak an apple product elsewhere. Along with a certain degree of revelry in seeing a company punished for doing so, and a sudden and inexplicable near universal hatred of this particular site that I'd never ever seen expressed before.

If you were to go back to early in this thread when Gizmodo first put up the pics of the phone, most of us weren’t exactly mad at Gizmodo.

I remember CharlieDigital getting upset that Gizmodo was getting a lot of traffic, but most of us were just amazed that this thing leaked out and were going to the site with no real problem.

later on in the week, when it became a bit more obvious that Gizmodo had done some questionable stuff t get this phone, there was some back and forth about their reputation and whether they had done something bad.

Once it became more clear that a) they had bought a stolen phone and b) had the gall to out the engineer who lost the thing, the thread pretty much became a Gizmodo bash-fest. (warranted, imo, but what do I know?)

 

[mattiewheels]

So Apple was on the board of the task force that served the warrant....but wouldn't a lot of other huge tech companies be on that board too since it's in the interest of subverting tech crime in that area? That abc article makes it out like Apple personally ordered a hit on Chen or something.

 

[LCfiner]

So Apple was on the board of the task force that served the warrant....but wouldn't a lot of other huge tech companies be on that board too since it's in the interest of subverting tech crime in that area? That abc article makes it out like Apple personally ordered a hit on Chen or something.

from the article:

"According to the San Jose Business Journal, other steering committee members include Cisco Systems, Microsoft, and Adobe. This isn't the first criminal investigation REACT has conducted in which a steering-committee member was a victim: In 2006, REACT broke up a counterfeiting ring that was selling pirated copies of Norton Antivirus, which is produced by steering-committee member Symantec. REACT has also launched piracy investigations in response to requests from Microsoft and Adobe."

 

[Gary Whitta]

LOL at the implication that Apple owns the police.

 

[Byakuya769]

This is so much bullshit. Here we have Gizmodo being treated like common criminals, as if they broke the law. And to hell with Apple. No other company cares about trade secrets, only Jobs and his cronies. This has frankly pushed me over the edge, I don't believe I will ever buy another apple product again.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

After that smug-as-fuck 'apology' they posted, this is hilariously awesome.

 

[Tobor]

This is so much bullshit. Here we have Gizmodo being treated like common criminals, as if they broke the law. And to hell with Apple. No other company cares about trade secrets, only Jobs and his cronies. This has frankly pushed me over the edge, I don't believe I will ever buy another apple product again.

:lol

Anyway, I can't believe the legs on this story. It feels like it's just warming up. Trial of the century! Dancing Jason Chen's on Leno!

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

No other company cares about trade secrets

LOL

 

[KHarvey16]

I don't know what you guys know about sarcasm, but I'm an expert.

 

[mattiewheels]

LOL at the implication that Apple owns the police.

I think they were implying that Apple magically went around the police with their singularly-owned task force. Steve Jobs just made a call from the bat-phone and things happened.

 

[scotcheggz]

It's just an iPhone ffs, this shit is ridiculous.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

And to hell with Apple. No other company cares about trade secrets, only Jobs and his cronies.

W A T

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Apple's not gonna hold the phone back a few months to rejigger it into something we haven't seen yet, are they? :lol

 

[jamesinclair]

So now apple is going around wasting thousands in tax payer dollars being they lost a phone and are giant crybabies about it?

How many raids do the police conduct when an average joe loses his phone? Most of the time, a cop wont even fill out a report, never mind raid a house and take computers to try to solve the case.

Fucking apple. This is probably worse than that time they bitched that flash was a closed system and how being a closed system is bad.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

So now apple is going around wasting thousands in tax payer dollars being they lost a phone and are giant crybabies about it?

How many raids do the police conduct when an average joe loses his phone? Most of the time, a cop wont even fill out a report, never mind raid a house and take computers to try to solve the case.

Fucking apple.

:lol

 

[LCfiner]

I can’t tell which posts are parody and which posts are serious now.

really, the "tax payer dollars" argument?

thankfully, I’m in Canada so I can enjoy the show with no worries about my tax dollars being wasted.

 

[mj1108]

I think they were implying that Apple magically went around the police with their singularly-owned task force. Steve Jobs just made a call from the bat-phone and things happened.

There's a lesson to be learned here: don't fuck with Apple.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I can’t tell which posts are parody and which posts are serious now.

really, the "tax payer dollars" argument?

thankfully, I’m in Canada so I can enjoy the show with no worries about my tax dollars being wasted.

Neither can I. I'm still laughing at the implication that crybaby Steve Jobs makes a call and the CA police swarm around on his command.

 

[CharlieDigital]

This is so much bullshit. Here we have Gizmodo being treated like common criminals, as if they broke the law. And to hell with Apple. No other company cares about trade secrets, only Jobs and his cronies. This has frankly pushed me over the edge, I don't believe I will ever buy another apple product again.

It's likely that the lost revenue for AT&T and Apple will run in the millions of $ as consumers put off buying a 3Gs...

 

[Pimpwerx]

The act of paying for the phone and revealing it to the world isn't a problem for me at all. Photogs get paid well for snapping spy shots of cars on test tracks, and we greatly appreciate them for it as car enthusiasts. Spy shots of software or hardware are the same. The only issue anyone should have with Gizmodo is their unprofessional burning of the employee who made an honest mistake, and revealing the manner in which it was acquired.

No one wants to hear about the backroom dealings, it's not intriguing espionage. If they'd been more professional about it, they would be reaping nothing but rewards right now. Apple would still be pissed, as would some of their uptight fans, but it would definitely have been an overall win for them. PEACE.

 

[scorcho]

It's likely that the lost revenue for AT&T and Apple will run in the millions of $ as consumers put off buying a 3Gs...

joke? if so the vast sum of that money will only be deferred for a few months. besides, a like argument could be made that the reveal will depress sales of android/palm/RIM devices as consumers wait for June to lay flesh on the device.

 

[Gary Whitta]

This is so much bullshit. Here we have Gizmodo being treated like common criminals, as if they broke the law. And to hell with Apple. No other company cares about trade secrets, only Jobs and his cronies. This has frankly pushed me over the edge, I don't believe I will ever buy another apple product again.

Wait, AstroLad has two accounts now?

 

[Byakuya769]

The act of paying for the phone and revealing it to the world isn't a problem for me at all. Photogs get paid well for snapping spy shots of cars on test tracks, and we greatly appreciate them for it as car enthusiasts. Spy shots of software or hardware are the same. The only issue anyone should have with Gizmodo is their unprofessional burning of the employee who made an honest mistake, and revealing the manner in which it was acquired.

No one wants to hear about the backroom dealings, it's not intriguing espionage. If they'd been more professional about it, they would be reaping nothing but rewards right now. Apple would still be pissed, as would some of their uptight fans, but it would definitely have been an overall win for them. PEACE.

Exactly. No one was trying to take your computer when you and your gf found an iphone and made no attempt to find the true owner. It's how the game goes, Jobs.

 

[Gary Whitta]

It's just an iPhone ffs, this shit is ridiculous.

If it was just any old iPhone this would never have been a story in the first place.

 

[Dacvak]

WHAT IS GOING ON.

I look away for one second, and Apple has the police raid some dude's house, and tubgirl hits Kotaku or something? Can some kind gent summarize this thread?

 

[KHarvey16]

There is absolutely no question this has cost Apple money. I'm not sure people holding out will account for much(if any) since anyone holding out because of this story probably would have done so anyway given Apple's traditional release schedule.

They definitely lose money having to work with and/or around all the issues this incident brings up though. An absolute ton of money and planning go into a product release and to think that wasn't effected would require some serious mental gymnastics.

 

[CharlieDigital]

joke? if so the vast sum of that money will only be deferred for a few months. besides, a like argument could be made that the reveal will depress sales of android/palm/RIM devices as consumers wait for June to lay flesh on the device.

No, these are *lost* sales as many would have caved to impulse and upgraded anyways from a 3Gs.

 

[RyanDG]

Gizmodo have been arrogant and increasingly stupid throughout this entire ordeal. Not only have they admitted to purchasing stolen goods (via their blog), but they also boasted about it and set themselves with the sole purpose of making Apple look horrible in the process (ie - we wouldn't have to do this if it wasn't for Apple's antiquated business practices). And now that get to play the martyr as a test case for the bloggers for the shield law for journalists. Fuck?

I don't mean to sound over the top or anything, but Gizmodo is the last group of people I would want to be in a position to legitimately be the test for the new media in the face of journalist laws. Especially as the details of the case are revealed and just how far Gizmodo's immaturity spreads (just see some of the posts on this thread for their previous antics). I support testing a bloggers protection under the shield law but I really, really wish this wasn't the test to do it with.

With that said, I really don't think that Gizmodo really understands the shield law that much... Especially if Giz are the one's being targetted for the purchase of the iPhone under the grounds of California's law about the receipt and purchase of stolen goods (that are known to be stolen), as opposed to the 'source' of the iphone being targetted.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

joke? if so the vast sum of that money will only be deferred for a few months. besides, a like argument could be made that the reveal will depress sales of android/palm/RIM devices as consumers wait for June to lay flesh on the device.

what about all the 3GS inventory that will now have to be discounted to sell?

seems to me that Apple is losing some money. not taking a negative on their investment...but making less than they would have right now without this leak.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

With that said, I really don't think that Gizmodo really understands the shield law that much... Especially if Giz are the one's being targetted for the purchase of the iPhone under the grounds of California's law about the receipt and purchase of stolen goods (that are known to be stolen), as opposed to the 'source' of the iphone being targetted.

Yeah, Gruber sums it up well :

Journalist shield laws are about journalists being able to protect sources who may have committed crimes. They’re not a license for journalists to commit crimes themselves. Gawker is making an argument that is beside the point. They’re arguing, “Hey, bloggers are journalists.” The state of California is arguing “Hey, you committed a felony.”

 

[Konka]

Given the situation of the crime they're going to get a plea deal of like community service and probation, there wont be any jail time involved.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I support testing a bloggers protection under the shield law but I really, really wish this wasn't the test to do it with.

Yeah this would be a much better test case if it wasn't all wrapped up in the commission of a common felony.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Gizmodo have been arrogant and increasingly stupid throughout this entire ordeal.

if that's the case, they're "dum, der, derp"-ing their way all the way to the bank.

with each thing that happens and makes major news, traffic to their site increases 4-fold.

money in the bank at Apple's expense.

 

[Gary Whitta]

if that's the case, they're "dum, der, derp"-ing their way all the way to the bank.

with each thing that happens and makes major news, traffic to their site increases 4-fold.

money in the bank at Apple's expense.

Let's see how much of that extra revenue they have left after this is all over. Lawyers don't work cheap, and I think they're gonna need outside counsel pretty soon. That's before we even talk about the possibility of Apple filing a civil action for damages.

 

[CharlieDigital]

In other words, not knowing of the concrete existence and details of an iPhone 4G, many consumers may have bridged the gap with another phone for the time being and then upgraded to a 4G. Now some consumers who were considering a 3G or some other phone might be more inclined to sit tight and put off ANY purchase

 

[scorcho]

No, these are *lost* sales as many would have caved to impulse and upgraded anyways from a 3Gs.

that's pure conjecture. it's impossible to gauge whether sales are lost or just deferred since there's too many variables involved.

 

[RyanDG]

if that's the case, they're "dum, der, derp"-ing their way all the way to the bank.

with each thing that happens and makes major news, traffic to their site increases 4-fold.

money in the bank at Apple's expense.

I don't mean their efforts of getting clicks and views is stupid. That is absolutely genius on their part. Over saturate the story and spread it all over and repeat it with multiple links to other parts of the story so that it remains on the front page. A+ work there.

What I mean when I say that it is stupid is the admitting of a time line that is no longer making sense with the facts of the case. The outing of the employee who lost it for no other purpose than to send them under the bus in the case. Admitting to purchasing the device when knowing (under the California law) sales of property known to be stolen is illegal (and then back tracking and saying that 'they didn't know it was stolen'). Constantly refocusing on the story as a way to bring more attention to the matter when if they would have kept it simple (which should be a general rule for all aspiring journalists), the story would've given them hits, but avoided a lot of the crap going down now. The list goes on, but that's just a handful of questionable actions that since they are all documented via the web, may come back to hurt them legally now that an investigation is going on -- especially as more and more details are coming that are beginning to punch holes in the story.

Just my thoughts at least.

 

[Byakuya769]

that's pure conjecture. it's impossible to gauge whether sales are lost or just deferred since there's too many variables involved.

a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow

 

[CharlieDigital]

that's pure conjecture. it's impossible to gauge whether sales are lost or just deferred since there's too many variables involved.

It's going to be pretty easy to see in the dip in iPhone contracts...

 

[scorcho]

what about all the 3GS inventory that will now have to be discounted to sell?

seems to me that Apple is losing some money. not taking a negative on their investment...but making less than they would have right now without this leak.

that happens regardless, doesn't it? they're already assured of a massive profit and likely record iPhone sales come June. people trying to extrapolate % higher revenue depressed because of the leak are talking out of their asses.

this reveal doesn't potentially depress only 3Gs sales, but likely sales for all smartphones since consumers will want to play with the damn thing before locking in for two years.

 

[Tobor]

joke? if so the vast sum of that money will only be deferred for a few months. besides, a like argument could be made that the reveal will depress sales of android/palm/RIM devices as consumers wait for June to lay flesh on the device.

Apple earns an average of $622 for every iPhone sold. It would only take 2,000 people to hold off and wait to reduce revenue this quarter by over a $1,000,000.

that happens regardless, doesn't it? they're already assured of a massive profit and likely record iPhone sales come June. people trying to extrapolate % higher revenue depressed because of the leak are talking out of their asses.

this reveal doesn't potentially depress only 3Gs sales, but likely sales for all smartphones since consumers will want to play with the damn thing before locking in for two years.

A fair point, but not really relevant to Apple's earnings.

 

[Battlezone]

I can't wait until a judge says, "hey, that shield thing doesn't apply here-you committed a felony!" and Gizmodo says "shield law? We don't care about that-the guy that stole the phone is RIGHT OVER THERE!"

...and then they'll post a snarky blog entry apologizing to the guy for outing him.

 

[CharlieDigital]

You can roll in whomever you want, but the bottom line is that this is a multi-million dollar hit to the industry of lost revenue. Apple and AT&T included.

 

[scotcheggz]

If it was just any old iPhone this would never have been a story in the first place.

Sorry I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was, it's just an iPhone.

 

[boredJonathan]

From - EFF Lawyer: Seizure of Gizmodo Editor’s Computers Violates State and Federal Law

“There’s a prohibition that says the government may not seize work product or documentary materials that are possessed in connection with news reporting and then it says that protection does not apply if there’s probable cause to believe the reporter is committing a crime, but then it says that exception to the exception doesn’t apply if the crime that the reporter is being investigated for is receipt of the information,” she said. “Whether or not receiving the iPhone was a criminal matter, the Privacy Protection Act says that you can’t do a search for receipt of that information. I think the idea that looking at the iPhone was unlawful is a real stretch. We don’t know what the claim is for that. I don’t know that that’s what they’re claiming. We don’t know what the situation is. But even if they are saying it was unlawful, the statute appears to say it doesn’t matter. The crime that you’re investigating cannot be receipt of that information or materials.”

So, if I'm reading this right - even if a felony was comitted, (i.e. purchasing a 'stolen' phone), Gizmodo is in the clear since it was done to break the story in the first place. Or at least, the Warrant isn't legal?

I mean, I'm not a big fan of Gizmodo after reading everything here, but it seems like the case might not be so cut and dried as everyone is making it out to be.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

You can roll in whomever you want, but the bottom line is that this is a multi-million dollar hit to the industry of lost revenue. Apple and AT&T included.

:lol Not that I'm buying this concept, but any "lost revenue" would be made up in eventual 4G iPhone sales.

 

[LCfiner]

Sorry I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was, it's just an iPhone.

It's obviously not just an iPhone because gizmodo paid five grand for it and the reveal of the unit on their website got over two million hits.

It was big news and now that the story of how they got it is becoming more clear, it seems like some laws were broken in obtaining it. It's not rocket science.