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[Zathalus]

I think its that and the fact that the demand for sony games is simply not there on steam. This is a game that sold 15 million on PS5 and cant even hit 40k concurrent on steam? Sony is supposed to be growing their fanbase on steam and the opposite seems to be happening. Aside from GoT, everything has failed to match GoW which released 2 and a half years ago.

Space Marine 2 did 250k concurrent players just this month. These numbers are amost 1/10th of that. Really embarrassing stuff from Sony's biggest game in years.

Maybe Sony will wake up one day and realize that whoring out your IP to a fanbase that doesnt give two shits about their games is probably not worth the millions they will lose as ps owners tune out and go PC next gen. Just like the MS fanbase did this gen. But these guys are all in, and i am sure they will come up with stats that show just how profitable Sony's pc venture has been.

The difference between Space Marine 2 and Ragnarök is that the one launched day one and the other 2 years later. People who are really invested in these Sony games likely already have a PS5 and play it on that. The point of these ports is to get revenue from those that would either double dip or would never buy a console in the first place. That these games are not getting massively more popular over time on PC is a clue that no mass migration of PS users are flocking to PC to play them.

 

[ChiefDada]

Im not surprised its getting lower reviewe. I've said it perhaps a few times in this forum but it's stunning how Atreus went from being my favorite character in GoW 2018, to my least favorite in Ragnarok. The actor's delivery skills took a nosedive and nearly all of his lines were so unconvincing. Devoid of all passion imo. I've never experienced anything like it. And yes the pacing was bad, particularly Ironwood. Why make a beautifully arted world ultimately useless? However I think the actress who played Angraboda did a wonderful job working with what she was given. But Atreus was simply awful.

Spoiler

I'm glad they got rid of him and I look forward to future DLC.

 

[Gaiff]

I think its that and the fact that the demand for sony games is simply not there on steam. This is a game that sold 15 million on PS5 and cant even hit 40k concurrent on steam? Sony is supposed to be growing their fanbase on steam and the opposite seems to be happening. Aside from GoT, everything has failed to match GoW which released 2 and a half years ago.

Space Marine 2 did 250k concurrent players just this month. These numbers are amost 1/10th of that. Really embarrassing stuff from Sony's biggest game in years.

Maybe Sony will wake up one day and realize that whoring out your IP to a fanbase that doesnt give two shits about their games is probably not worth the millions they will lose as ps owners tune out and go PC next gen. Just like the MS fanbase did this gen. But these guys are all in, and i am sure they will come up with stats that show just how profitable Sony's pc venture has been.

What kind of comparison is that? One is a brand new game that reviewed positively on Steam and has multiplayer elements. The other is a bad port of a 2-year old game that received mixed reviews. Why do you even compare them? Where's the sense in that? FF XVI is a much better comparison and just did 27K despite having much better reviews.

As for wanting to grow their fanbase, you said it yourself, the game sold 15M on PS4/5 alone. How many buyers are there left? 90% probably already got the game. It's been out for almost 2 years and was on sale a few times.

Sony cannot grow their fanbase on PC if they release games two years later. What will happen with these late ports is that they'll catch a few million people who still want to play those games but aren't in a hurry. If they expect to do huge numbers with mediocre late ports, they're even more delusional than we gave them credit for.

 

[SlimySnake]

The difference between Space Marine 2 and Ragnarök is that the one launched day one and the other 2 years later. People who are really invested in these Sony games likely already have a PS5 and play it on that. The point of these ports is to get revenue from those that would either double dip or would never buy a console in the first place. That these games are not getting massively more popular over time on PC is a clue that no mass migration of PS users are flocking to PC to play them.

TLOU part 1 launched just six months later.

Concord launched day one.

GOW 2018 launched 4 years later and did better numbers.

If people wanted to play the game they would buy it.

 

[Gaiff]

TLOU part 1 launched just six months later.

Worst port by far and it's a remaster of a 10-year old game. How good were the numbers on PS5?

Concord launched day one.

And failed spectacularly on both platforms.

GOW 2018 launched 4 years later and did better numbers.

Novelty and it reviewed well.

If people wanted to play the game they would buy it.

They do, it's just that comparing late ports to Warhammer games is beyond silly. I bet your ass Ragnarok would have done over 100K if it released day 1 on PC and reviewed positively, but at what cost? Sony can't have it both ways. You either commit and want to grow your fanbase by not waiting so long to port your games, or you accept that you will limit your growth and potential and are fine with that because you aren't willing to harm your core business.

 

[Gaiff]

Im not surprised its getting lower reviewe. I've said it perhaps a few times in this forum but it's stunning how Atreus went from being my favorite character in GoW 2018, to my least favorite in Ragnarok. The actor's delivery skills took a nosedive and nearly all of his lines were so unconvincing. Devoid of all passion imo. I've never experienced anything like it. And yes the pacing was bad, particularly Ironwood. Why make a beautifully arted world ultimately useless? However I think the actress who played Angraboda did a wonderful job working with what she was given. But Atreus was simply awful.

Spoiler

I'm glad they got rid of him and I look forward to future DLC.

Future DLC? Pretty sure it's done my man.

 

[Zathalus]

TLOU part 1 launched just six months later.

Concord launched day one.

GOW 2018 launched 4 years later and did better numbers.

If people wanted to play the game they would buy it.

TLOU was a remake of a decade old game and was a dreadful PC port. Concord was a joke on all platforms and GOW 2018 had zero PSN drama, was better received by most people, and didn’t launch the day next to FF16, a game that probably has a lot of overlap in terms of players. As you pointed out Ghost launched recently and had the highest peak of all the single player ports. Good multiplayer games can also work, as Helldivers 2 showed.

So the numbers show two things, that even these smallish numbers are insanely profitable for games that cost a pittance to port, and that no mass migration of PS users are flocking to PC because if they were surely we would see the effect on these day one numbers? Looking at it from Sonys business perspective, enough players to make money off, not much of a negative impact on the console business. Win/win.

 

[SlimySnake]

TLOU was a remake of a decade old game and was a dreadful PC port. Concord was a joke on all platforms and GOW 2018 had zero PSN drama, was better received by most people, and didn’t launch the day next to FF16, a game that probably has a lot of overlap in terms of players. As you pointed out Ghost launched recently and had the highest peak of all the single player ports. Good multiplayer games can also work, as Helldivers 2 showed.

So the numbers show two things, that even these smallish numbers are insanely profitable for games that cost a pittance to port, and that no mass migration of PS users are flocking to PC because if they were surely we would see the effect on these day one numbers? Looking at it from Sonys business perspective, enough players to make money off, not much of a negative impact on the console business. Win/win.

what about Spiderman, Miles, returnal, Ratchet, sackboy, HFW, Days Gone and Uncharted?

if sony wants to whore out their IPs for a few million in profit because its easy money, they should. it didnt work for MS though, and they are literally on the verge of going third party. Sony thinks the rules and precedents dont apply to them and they might be right because they have zero competition right now, but this wasnt win/win for MS and it wont be win/win for sony in the long run. we shall see. it took me almost 8 years to be proven right about MS going to PC. I am willing to wait another 8 years for Sony. One could say that the price increases playstation fans have seen on the base PS5, the PS+ subs, PS controllers and the insane markups on PSVR2 and PS5 Pro have come because their Pc strategy isnt as successful as they are making it out to be. After all, if it was win/win and so extremely profitable they wouldnt be shutting down studios, raising prices and laying off 900 people from ND, GG and insomniac.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Game is average at best. I genuinely think it’s one of if not the most overrated game (in term of reviews/ metacritic, players reception has been much more tepid past the honey moon period I feel) of the last few years

Agreed. The combat was better and so was the exploration, but the story was mediocre and it overstayed its welcome far too long. Kratos' characterization was very questionable. The game isn't bad, but it is not on the level of the first one IMHO.

The difference isn't noticeable at first, but it is very stark. The first game had an incredible story, almost TLOU1 feel to the story. The second game had basically a nothing story for me. Everything interesting happened in GoW1. I'd rather they ditch the side characters and turn it back into a manly Kratos action game like Stellar Blade.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

what about Spiderman, Miles, returnal, Ratchet, sackboy, HFW, Days Gone and Uncharted?

if sony wants to whore out their IPs for a few million in profit because its easy money, they should. it didnt work for MS though, and they are literally on the verge of going third party. Sony thinks the rules and precedents dont apply to them and they might be right because they have zero competition right now, but this wasnt win/win for MS and it wont be win/win for sony in the long run. we shall see. it took me almost 8 years to be proven right about MS going to PC. I am willing to wait another 8 years for Sony. One could say that the price increases playstation fans have seen on the base PS5, the PS+ subs, PS controllers and the insane markups on PSVR2 and PS5 Pro have come because their Pc strategy isnt as successful as they are making it out to be. After all, if it was win/win and so extremely profitable they wouldnt be shutting down studios, raising prices and laying off 900 people from ND, GG and insomniac.

You're ignoring the main differences though. Xbox doing day and date makes their devs have to put out a pc port day 1 and it's never exclusive, even for any amount of time on PC.
That tells anyone with a gaming PC there is literally zero reason to have a xbox console. A lot of PC gamers have playstation consoles cause not all the games come to PC, and when they do it's years later. Except GaaS.

Sony is letting their devs maximize their time and skill to get games the best on their dedicated closed hardware and then farming out the ports to another studio later. MS does nothing to optimize or make their console versions better.
As long as Sony stays away from day and date for their non-GaaS games, it'll just be easy money years later and remain that way.

 

[analog_future]

TLOU part 1 launched just six months later.

Concord launched day one.

GOW 2018 launched 4 years later and did better numbers.

If people wanted to play the game they would buy it.

You ignored this last time as well but you're continuing to conveniently leave out huge success stories like Ghost of Tsushima and Helldivers II, both of which came out this year.

There's plenty of avenues for success for these games. Releasing a half-assed port 2 years after the console version which received lukewarm fan reception probably wasn't a great decision by Sony.


With that said, it looks like it peaked at ~36k concurrent players, which isn't even that bad. It indicates that the game will sell around ~1.5 units in it's lifetime on PC.

 

[Midn1ght]

Maybe Sony will wake up one day and realize that whoring out your IP to a fanbase that doesnt give two shits about their games is probably not worth the millions they will lose as ps owners tune out and go PC next gen.

Game they released on PC in 2024:

Helldiver 2 : 458,709 CCU (Best Ever CCU)
Ghost of Tsushima : 77,154 CCU (Second Best ever CCU)
Forbidden West : 40,462 CCU (6th Best CCU)
Ragnarok : 35,615 CUU (8th Best CCU)

Done with zero marketing (couple trailers and a blog post most of the time) and for SP games that are several years old and, while selling well, received mid reviews from the public (GOW/HFW). They cost nothing to port, have lost all the hype they had going for them when they originally released and yet, still make a decent enough profit for Sony to keep porting them one after one. Meanwhile, they keep selling millions of consoles and tens of millions of copies every time they release a new SP game.

Stop being a baby crying because other people are playing with your toys.

 

[SlimySnake]

You're ignoring the main differences though. Xbox doing day and date makes their devs have to put out a pc port day 1 and it's never exclusive, even for any amount of time on PC.
That tells anyone with a gaming PC there is literally zero reason to have a xbox console. A lot of PC gamers have playstation consoles cause not all the games come to PC, and when they do it's years later. Except GaaS.

Sony is letting their devs maximize their time and skill to get games the best on their dedicated closed hardware and then farming out the ports to another studio later. MS does nothing to optimize or make their console versions better.
As long as Sony stays away from day and date for their non-GaaS games, it'll just be easy money years later and remain that way.

For now. MS didnt start doing day one releases right away either.

And Sony has alraedy done day one releases for their gaas games. The rest will come sooner and sooner as Nixxes has pretty much caught up. ND did the TLOU port themselves and so did Bend with DG1.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

For now. MS didnt start doing day one releases right away either.

And Sony has alraedy done day one releases for their gaas games. The rest will come sooner and sooner as Nixxes has pretty much caught up. ND did the TLOU port themselves and so did Bend with DG1.

Sony is primarily a hardware company and playstation is what keeps them afloat.
MS hates hardware and always has, and xbox is definitely not profitable yet after recent purchases.

Not all companies are going to follow MS into console failure. That's ridiculous.

 

[SlimySnake]

You ignored this last time as well but you're continuing to conveniently leave out huge success stories like Ghost of Tsushima and Helldivers II, both of which came out this year.

There's plenty of avenues for success for these games. Releasing a half-assed port 2 years after the console version which received lukewarm fan reception probably wasn't a great decision by Sony.


With that said, it looks like it peaked at ~36k concurrent players, which isn't even that bad. It indicates that the game will sell around ~1.5 units in it's lifetime on PC.

Exceptions dont make the rule. I didnt forget Helldivers the last time and this time i specifically mentioned GoT after being reminded of it the last time we did this a couple of days ago.

if you think halving the number of sales for the sequel after sony's has practically published their entire ps4 lineup to PC is great then i cant help you.

 

[Midn1ght]

After all, if it was win/win and so extremely profitable they wouldnt be shutting down studios, raising prices and laying off 900 people from ND, GG and insomniac.

They threw half a billion in the garbage with Concord and TLOU Online and somehow managed to pay 3.6 billion for Bungie.

But no, they laid off 900 people and are increasing prices because fucking Ratchet and Sackboy didn't sell well on PC.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Sony is primarily a hardware company and playstation is what keeps them afloat.
MS hates hardware and always has, and xbox is definitely not profitable yet after recent purchases.

Not all companies are going to follow MS into console failure. That's ridiculous.

Absolutely true, Playstation is probably Sony's most import asset right now. They won't jeopardize that just to make Valve richer

It doesn't make any sense...

Just like the supposed next Xbox console running Steam doesn't make any sense

 

[timespace]

Exceptions dont make the rule. I didnt forget Helldivers the last time and this time i specifically mentioned GoT after being reminded of it the last time we did this a couple of days ago.

if you think halving the number of sales for the sequel after sony's has practically published their entire ps4 lineup to PC is great then i cant help you.

I agree with this. There will be a tipping point where no matter how long they delay these PC ports, people wont mind waiting because the pc ecosystem will be flooded with all their best games.

 

[Zathalus]

what about Spiderman, Miles, returnal, Ratchet, sackboy, HFW, Days Gone and Uncharted?

if sony wants to whore out their IPs for a few million in profit because its easy money, they should. it didnt work for MS though, and they are literally on the verge of going third party. Sony thinks the rules and precedents dont apply to them and they might be right because they have zero competition right now, but this wasnt win/win for MS and it wont be win/win for sony in the long run. we shall see. it took me almost 8 years to be proven right about MS going to PC. I am willing to wait another 8 years for Sony. One could say that the price increases playstation fans have seen on the base PS5, the PS+ subs, PS controllers and the insane markups on PSVR2 and PS5 Pro have come because their Pc strategy isnt as successful as they are making it out to be. After all, if it was win/win and so extremely profitable they wouldnt be shutting down studios, raising prices and laying off 900 people from ND, GG and insomniac.

What about those games? They appear to have sold well enough for some old ports.

The difference between Sony and Microsoft is obvious, Sony has had a relatively stable and high quality output, Microsoft didn’t, (as in some years they had next to nothing) Sony didn’t devalue game sales via a sub service, Microsoft did (day one first party no less), Sony is porting the single players games after a significant delay, Microsoft went all in on day one.

It’s been over 4 years of ports and what impact have we seen? Have the ports grown widely in popularity as people flock to PC as they realize they no longer need a PlayStation? Well no, as this title clearly proves. Surely logic would imply that if people are no longer buying PlayStations because they realize they can buy these single player exclusives on PC we would see a corresponding increase in the numbers these games on PC reach? It’s been over 4 years, the excuse of just you wait, you’ll see is wearing a bit thin.

Or maybe most people interested in these games would rather not wait several years? Or that while there is an overlap, most console and PC players only play on their platform of choice with the difference in console and PC gaming being quite significant in some areas?

And you really think the PC strategy is responsible for all of those price increases and layoffs? The PC push has brought them around a billion dollars of revenue (just Steam games) for the paltry costs of doing some ports. Wouldn’t the rising cost of game development, spending spree on acquisitions, the disastrous GaaS push, and crippling lack of competition in the console space have a far greater impact on all of that?

 

[analog_future]

Exceptions dont make the rule. I didnt forget Helldivers the last time and this time i specifically mentioned GoT after being reminded of it the last time we did this a couple of days ago.

if you think halving the number of sales for the sequel after sony's has practically published their entire ps4 lineup to PC is great then i cant help you.

Ragnarok sold just over half the amount of units compared to God of War 2018 on consoles as well. So are you saying Ragnarok was a flop on PS5 too?

 

[SlimySnake]

Ragnarok sold just over half the amount of units compared to God of War 2018 on consoles as well. So are you saying Ragnarok was a flop on PS5 too?

What? No. Ragnorak was the fastest selling PS game of all time.

Sony has announced that God of War Ragnarok has sold through 5.1 million copies in its first week, a franchise record but also a record for all PlayStation exclusives. Previously, The Last of Us Part 2 sold 4 million copies in its first three days, but Sony is now saying that Ragnarok’s weekly total beat it out.

It sold 11 million in just 3 months. It took GOW a year to sell 10 million.

Sony Santa Monica has announced that God of War Ragnarok has sold 11 million units.

The action title hit the sales milestone three months after its launch.

On November 23, 2022, it became the fastest-selling first-party PlayStation launch title, with five million units sold, at the time.

By comparison, in the year after its release, Sony reported that 2018's God of War shifted ten million copies.

 

[Gaiff]

What are people expecting? Sony offers scraps to PC gamers that are 2 years late, and they're supposed to prostrate and thank them? Ragnarok hit 35K despite terrible reviews.

People are seriously overestimating the appeal of Sony's first-party stuff when it's 2 years late and not running all that well.

 

[analog_future]

What? No. Ragnorak was the fastest selling PS game of all time.



It sold 11 million in just 3 months. It took GOW a year to sell 10 million.

Must've been insanely frontloaded then, as it hit 15 million at the end of last year, whereas God of War 2018 is estimated to have sold 25 million LTD.

Per the official Playstation blog: https://blog.playstation.com/2023/1...rok-valhalla-dlc-revealed-coming-december-12/


If anything this strengthens the notion that enthusiasm dried up a bit toward this game as more and more lukewarm user feedback started to emerge.

 

[Cakeboxer]

It sold 11 million in just 3 months. It took GOW a year to sell 10 million.

To be fair Ragnarok (also HFW) sold lots of copies with bundles when the PS5 was constantly sold out. In 2022 and early 2023 Sony was like: You want a PS5 without one of our games? Go fuck yourself.

 

[SlimySnake]

What about those games? They appear to have sold well enough for some old ports.

The difference between Sony and Microsoft is obvious, Sony has had a relatively stable and high quality output, Microsoft didn’t, (as in some years they had next to nothing) Sony didn’t devalue game sales via a sub service, Microsoft did (day one first party no less), Sony is porting the single players games after a significant delay, Microsoft went all in on day one.

It’s been over 4 years of ports and what impact have we seen? Have the ports grown widely in popularity as people flock to PC as they realize they no longer need a PlayStation? Well no, as this title clearly proves. Surely logic would imply that if people are no longer buying PlayStations because they realize they can buy these single player exclusives on PC we would see a corresponding increase in the numbers these games on PC reach? It’s been over 4 years, the excuse of just you wait, you’ll see is wearing a bit thin.

Or maybe most people interested in these games would rather not wait several years? Or that while there is an overlap, most console and PC players only play on their platform of choice with the difference in console and PC gaming being quite significant in some areas?

And you really think the PC strategy is responsible for all of those price increases and layoffs? The PC push has brought them around a billion dollars of revenue (just Steam games) for the paltry costs of doing some ports. Wouldn’t the rising cost of game development, spending spree on acquisitions, the disastrous GaaS push, and crippling lack of competition in the console space have a far greater impact on all of that?

They werent really that old. TLOU1 was just six months. Ratchet and others were 2 years.

There are differences between Sony and MS, and like i said Sony having no competition means they might not suffer the same fate as MS.

The impact we have seen after 4 years of these ports is that the sales have halved for Horizon and GOW. Several games have topped or failed to top 10k. The demand is not there aside from some viral games like helldivers 2. GoT doing just as much as GOW isnt even an achievement but if thats the bar for a game to be considered a success, not sure why we trashed Starfield for only doing 330k if 77k is considered amazing.

I never said the PC strategy was responsible for the layoffs. I said that it didnt bring in enough dollars to help avert the crisis which is something that was sold as a win win to me years ago since the cost of porting these games was so low. So no, it didnt help with their bottomline or we wouldnt have had those studio closures or price increases. Going to the PC market did nothing for the PS userbase.

 

[SlimySnake]

Must've been insanely frontloaded then, as it hit 15 million at the end of last year, whereas God of War 2018 is estimated to have sold 25 million LTD.

Per the official Playstation blog: https://blog.playstation.com/2023/1...rok-valhalla-dlc-revealed-coming-december-12/


If anything this strengthens the notion that enthusiasm dried up a bit toward this game as more and more lukewarm user feedback started to emerge.

GOW 2018 has been on the market for 6 years and sold 25 million. Ragnorak's 15 million sales are literally just 1 year and 1 month of sales.

 

[Gaiff]

I never said the PC strategy was responsible for the layoffs. I said that it didnt bring in enough dollars to help avert the crisis which is something that was sold as a win win to me years ago since the cost of porting these games was so low. So no, it didnt help with their bottomline or we wouldnt have had those studio closures or price increases. Going to the PC market did nothing for the PS userbase.

Yeah, gonna go with no here. You're making way too many assumptions and hilariously simplifying how they're running their business. Just because you're making a lot of money doesn't mean you're unwilling to shed dead weight.

 

[Kacho]

Yeah, gonna go with no here. You're making way too many assumptions and hilariously simplifying how they're running their business. Just because you're making a lot of money doesn't mean you're unwilling to shed dead weight.

gotta respect his passion. One of the most tolerable Sony fans IMO.

 

[MisterXDTV]

What are people expecting? Sony offers scraps to PC gamers that are 2 years late, and they're supposed to prostrate and thank them? Ragnarok hit 35K despite terrible reviews.

People are seriously overestimating the appeal of Sony's first-party stuff when it's 2 years late and not running all that well.

I didn't expect anything from a 2-year old port

The only question that matters is: what did Sony expect?

I don't even know how much it costs to port these games to PC

 

[Gaiff]

I didn't expect anything from a 2-year port

The only question that matters is: what did Sony expect?

I don't even know how much it costs to port these games to PC

Since it was done by mainly a team of mainly 4 guys over 2 years, probably not a lot.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Since it was done by mainly a team of mainly 4 guys over 2 years, probably not a lot.

Then any sale they can get is a plus...

They are not even marketing these ports that much.

To me the strategy looks correct from the outside: you risk very little and every sale is a bonus

If it's succesfull great, if it isn't no big deal

 

[BennyBlanco]

What exactly did you call? Horizon works quite well on hardware equivalent to a PS5, only running into VRAM issues which is entirely expected. Nothing wrong with the Horizon port, or Ghost, or Returnal for that matter.

This game was ported by 4 developers, of course the amount of work put into it won’t be extensive. Compared to the number of developers optimizing this game for PS5 that is next to nothing. Hence the number of bugs and performance issues that come up.


Man, for somebody who loves bitching about PCMR you seem to have zero problem shitting up PC threads with your fanboy drivel.

These guys are absolutely buttblasted that a PC version of this game exists at all. Don’t pay them any mind.

 

[Gaiff]

These guys are absolutely buttblasted that a PC version of this game exists at all. Don’t pay them any mind.

Nah, ChiefDada definitely doesn't care. Never seen him express anger or annoyance at PC ports. On the contrary, he's interested in on how they translate to PC.

 

[MisterXDTV]

On the contrary, he's interested on how they translate to PC.

This is the reason I stick to this thread, I love the tech even if I'm not actually a PC gamer

 

[Physiognomonics]

TLOU part 1 launched just six months later.

Concord launched day one.

GOW 2018 launched 4 years later and did better numbers.

If people wanted to play the game they would buy it.

This. People bought Ragnarok on PS4/PS5 because they thought it would be as awesome as GOW. After 2 years people know it's a very bad God of War game compared to 2018. This is not a story about Kratos anymore (and Kratos has become a pussy). It's a diverse ensemble of cast now and I shudder to think what will happen to those characters in the next games.