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[Ridcully]

Googles work force is 91% white or Asian? Yeah, I’m not even going to bother to break out the worlds smallest violin for this alleged “discrimination”. If google feels they need a policy to combat institutionalized racism, good on them.

Perhaps they should implement a sane solution - like, say, name-blind hiring - instead of, you know, breaking the law.

 

[llien]

We already had a discussion about google increasing it’s hiring efforts and trying to increase interest of tech to girls back in the Damore thread, so it might be best not to drag that here. Let’s focus instead on the black and Latinx hires that the lawsuit is about.

But nothing in the text you've quoted was about Damore.

 

[Discourse]

Again, you're attempting to use irrelevant one liners and avoiding the issue of whether it is okay to discriminate against an individual based upon skin colour and/or gender. It's very disingenous and tbh that one just amounts to race baiting and thinly veiled bigotry.



But that's not a POLICY. What we have here is a lawsuit based upon the allegation that there was an actual POLICY in place to dsicriminate specifically against a particular group based up on their skin colour / gender.

Your problem is you're trying to justify bigotry and discrimination against one group by posting what you believe are examples of discrimination and bigotry against another group but doing so only further supports that there is a case of discrimination here. Worse is highlights that you share the mindset held by many of those that have purposely discriminated against blacks/women etc. That being that you believe that an entire group of individuals somehow "deserve it" simply based upon their sex / colour of their skin.

Oh cry me a river. You conveniently ignore everything I said and cherry pick parts out of context to fit your narrative. The statistics are clear. Black people are discriminated against in job applications. Again I will ask, what is your solution to this problem other than leaving things as they are?

 

[TheMikado]

Oh cry me a river. You conveniently ignore everything I said and cherry pick parts out of context to fit your narrative. The statistics are clear. Black people are discriminated against in job applications. Again I will ask, what is your solution to this problem other than leaving things as they are?

Name Blind hiring is something my place of work does. HR scrubs applicant names when they give the hiring manager the applicants.
Also they create a present questionairre so that each applicant gets the same questions in the interview and each interviewer needs to write the interviewees response and rate it.
Further they do initiative to increase diversity applicants by targeting certain regions and colleges which increases the hiring odds of a diverse candidate.

There's alot you can do than break the law.
My place of work hasn't been successful for reasons I've outlined but they have a solid plan.

 

[Dunki]

No solution would be good enough for you because you don't offer a solution to the institutional bias against black people, you want things to remain as they are.

There is no institutional bias.... There are racist people for sure. Some of them are also in higher postions. But there are no laws, no rules etc that discriminate black people. And What I want is that we all forget this whole black and white shit completly. You are a person I am a person.

And you want to do something against racsim? Be a role model for your children. Show them that it does not matter which gender or race you are. This goes for white parents and black parents. I have read fucking articles in the new york times

Can My Children Be Friends With White People?

Which is fucking insane. Children are born so innocently and getting corrupted by all this bullshit about race. Here is some great videos that shows how innocent kids are when they still are not corrupted by their parents and society. Its not about race but it is about disability and how these chidlren react to someone different.



Or how about these two kids which caused a fucking outrage because they did not see color.

You want to end discrimination? Start with your children start with this generation stop trying to make everything about your or their skincolor. Talking more and more about it in such an agressive and insulting way (to the other side) will only cause more racism and separation in a country.

 

[llien]

Perhaps they should implement a sane solution - like, say, name-blind hiring - instead of, you know, breaking the law.

There are anonymous interview platforms available, it's curious why google and co are not using it.

I don't think it would change stats, to be honest, but it would be a proof that there is no gender/race/age/anything bias in hiring process.

 

[TheMikado]

There is no institutional bias.... There are racist people for sure. Some of them are also in higher postions. But there are no laws, no rules etc that discriminate black people. And What I want is that we all forget this whole black and white shit completly. You are a person I am a person.

And you want to do something against racsim? Be a role model for your children. Show them that it does not matter which gender or race you are. This goes for white parents and black parents. I have read fucking articles in the new york times

Can My Children Be Friends With White People?

Which is fucking insane. Children are born so innocently and getting corrupted by all this bullshit about race. Here is some great videos that shows how innocent kids are when they still are not corrupted by their parents and society. Its not about race but it is about disability and how these chidlren react to someone different.



Or how about these two kids which caused a fucking outrage because they did not see color.

You want to end discrimination? Start with your children start with this generation stop trying to make everything about your or their skincolor. Talking more and more about it in such an agressive and insulting way (to the other side) will only cause more racism and separation in a country.

I don't think telling everyone to act like children is a way to counteract prejudice. You need more tangible initiatives

 

[Dunki]

I don't think telling everyone to act like children is a way to counteract prejudice. You need more tangible initiatives

But children do not have these prejudices they are learning them from their parents, in schools by society. And these exist on both sides. Like the new york times articles shows.

You want to end this than you have to start with your children and tell them color does not matter, gender does not matter. And not. Do not trust a black kid or do not trust a white kid. If we would just fucking stop tlaking about race in EVERY aspect of our life there would be way less prejudices IMO.

 

[TheMikado]

But children do not have these prejudices they are learning them from their parents, in schools by society. And these exist on both sides. Like the new york times articles shows.

You want to end this than you have to start with your children and tell them color does not matter, gender does not matter. And not. Do not trust a black kid or do not trust a white kid. If we would just fucking stop tlaking about race in EVERY aspect of our life there would be way less prejudices IMO.

That's fine for the children, but how do we deal with the prejudice grown up out there now? Especially when you want to get a job so you can feed your own children.

 

[Moneal]

Googles work force is 91% white or Asian? Yeah, I’m not even going to bother to break out the worlds smallest violin for this alleged “discrimination”. If google feels they need a policy to combat institutionalized racism, good on them.

A policy of hiring that is racially biased is the definition of institutionalized racism.

 

[Blood Borne]

There is no evidence to show that people of other races are being discriminated against in basketball or ice hockey or snowboarding. There is a mountain of evidence to prove racial bias against black people in job applications.

There's absolutely no proof whatsoever that Google is discriminating against black and Latinos.

 

[Dunki]

That's fine for the children, but how do we deal with the prejudice grown up out there now? Especially when you want to get a job so you can feed your own children.

How about your blind hiring process and make it mandatory. Than there is no racial bias or discrimination. Trying to fight discrimnation with discrimination is nto helping at all but rather heating things up. Getting rid of this racial bias will take generations for sure but it is way better than what is happening now. Or do you actually thing that the tension and biases have been reduced? I think it is the complete opposite. It has goten way more vile, way more biased on both sides and hoenstly I am tired of it.

 

[mr2xxx]

But children do not have these prejudices they are learning them from their parents, in schools by society. And these exist on both sides. Like the new york times articles shows.

You want to end this than you have to start with your children and tell them color does not matter, gender does not matter. And not. Do not trust a black kid or do not trust a white kid. If we would just fucking stop tlaking about race in EVERY aspect of our life there would be way less prejudices IMO.

So you want racist parents to teach their kids to not be racist? You understand why that’s an issue right?

 

[TheMikado]

How about your blind hiring process and make it mandatory. Than there is no racial bias or discrimination. Trying to fight discrimnation with discrimination is nto helping at all but rather heating things up. Getting rid of this racial bias will take generations for sure but it is way better than what is happening now. Or do you actually thing that the tension and biases have been reduced? I think it is the complete opposite. It has goten way more vile, way more biased on both sides and hoenstly I am tired of it.

I think common sense approaches to hiring are best, I can only speak on what we've done.

When setting a diversity initiative in hiring they took a number of approaches.

1)The immediate area in which we are has very low diversity so the solution was to market in high diversity areas for job positions.
2) The idea was that it would increase the number of diverse applicants in the application pool
3) Next to attempt to remove individual bias at the hiring manager end HR sends demographic scrubbed resumes to hiring managers. Really just removing the headers.
4) HR also does all communication with the candidate including announcing if they were selected for an interview.
5) Next the department creates a hiring panel. My department had 10 people but they got 5 people to interview me as a panel. I've seen 20 person panels for administrators.
6) Once the panel has been created members of the panel submit questions to be asked in the interview.
7) HR collects the questions and compiles a master interview questionairre with a place for interviewee responses and point system 1-5 for each question.
8) These are enclosed with a packet for each interviewer and they interview the candidate as a group each taking a turn to ask a question from the paper.
9) No additional questions can really be asked.
10)All the papers are collected and while hiring managers have the final say HR will review the documents for inconsistencies.

If someone gave an interviewee all 1s on their questions and everyone gave 5s that interviewer would likely show some bias.
In addition is someone was highly rated but not hiring HR may go back and ask for more information on why.

Anyway, what I can say about this process is that its very good but not very efficient.
Out of 700 employees I was the only full time black man on staff until recently when we doubled that number to 2.
Some of the upper management have expressed their frustration with the process not being effective and I explained to them that they lack of diversity you are trying to combat is a deterrent.
There are prejudices in my own department I have to deal with and have considered leaving multiple times over it. The process is going to take a long time because people will be leery of low diversity places in the first place and even after being hired may experience prejudice which makes them leave. Again, the only thing that helps this process is having a good system in place and time.

 

[Vicetrailia]

There is no institutional bias.... There are racist people for sure. Some of them are also in higher postions. But there are no laws, no rules etc that discriminate black people. And What I want is that we all forget this whole black and white shit completly. You are a person I am a person.

This is not an applicable response. There's a thing called momentum from discrimination that carries on after the laws become equal. Redlining isn't a law, but we still have its outcomes.

The world doesn't work as simply as we're both people, this is not pragmatic on an overall level, like it can be on an individual one.

 

[Discourse]

I got moderated for the "claims" I posted and asked to provide proof for each one of then so here goes. I'm not reposting the graphics.

A 2012 study published in the American Journal of Public Health found that about two-thirds of primary care doctors harbor “unconscious racial biases” toward their African-American patients, leading those doctors to spend less time with their black patients and involve them less in medical decisions. Although doctors typically aren’t aware that they’re treating African-American patients any differently, this ultimately creates an environment in which black people often don’t feel welcome in the medical system .

While black children constitute 18% of preschoolers nationwide, they make up nearly 50% of suspensions. When all age groups are examined, black students are three times more likely to be suspended than white students, even when their infractions are similar. Overall, black students represent 16% of student enrollment and 27% of students referred to law enforcement. And once black children are in the criminal justice system, they are 18 times more likely than white children to be than white children to be sentenced as adults.

Blacks, Latinos and Asians looking for homes were shown fewer housing options than whites who were equally qualified. And fewer options meant higher housing costs.

More than half of all young black Americans know someone, including themselves, who has been harassed by the police. Statistics also show that black drivers are about 30% more likely than whites to be pulled over by the police.

A black pedestrian’s wait time at the curb was about 32 percent longer than a white person’s. Blacks are twice as likely to die in pedestrian accidents than whites, perhaps because, according to one study, motorists are less likely to stop for blacks in the crosswalk.

 

[Moneal]

While black children constitute 18% of preschoolers nationwide, they make up nearly 50% of suspensions. When all age groups are examined, black students are three times more likely to be suspended than white students, even when their infractions are similar. Overall, black students represent 16% of student enrollment and 27% of students referred to law enforcement. And once black children are in the criminal justice system, they are 18 times more likely than white children to be than white children to be sentenced as adults.
.

where is the similar infractions part?

 

[Naudi]

I got moderated for the "claims" I posted and asked to provide proof for each one of then so here goes. I'm not reposting the graphics.

A 2012 study published in the American Journal of Public Health found that about two-thirds of primary care doctors harbor “unconscious racial biases” toward their African-American patients, leading those doctors to spend less time with their black patients and involve them less in medical decisions. Although doctors typically aren’t aware that they’re treating African-American patients any differently, this ultimately creates an environment in which black people often don’t feel welcome in the medical system .

While black children constitute 18% of preschoolers nationwide, they make up nearly 50% of suspensions. When all age groups are examined, black students are three times more likely to be suspended than white students, even when their infractions are similar. Overall, black students represent 16% of student enrollment and 27% of students referred to law enforcement. And once black children are in the criminal justice system, they are 18 times more likely than white children to be than white children to be sentenced as adults.

Blacks, Latinos and Asians looking for homes were shown fewer housing options than whites who were equally qualified. And fewer options meant higher housing costs.

More than half of all young black Americans know someone, including themselves, who has been harassed by the police. Statistics also show that black drivers are about 30% more likely than whites to be pulled over by the police.

A black pedestrian’s wait time at the curb was about 32 percent longer than a white person’s. Blacks are twice as likely to die in pedestrian accidents than whites, perhaps because, according to one study, motorists are less likely to stop for blacks in the crosswalk.

Sometimes the pendulum has to swing far to the other side to correct decades of harm. As a white male I have zero fear this will affect my life in anyway. Nameless applications would be good too but still too easy to target whites by advertising positions to certain areas.

Also I can't believe you are being asked by a mod to show stats lol. Trump sure has normalized racist behavior. Pretty sad.

 

[MajinSweet4]

Googles work force is 91% white or Asian? Yeah, I’m not even going to bother to break out the worlds smallest violin for this alleged “discrimination”. If google feels they need a policy to combat institutionalized racism, good on them.

I really don't understand the logic of this. If some Asian guy doesn't get a job when he's more qualified than everyone else he was competing with, then yeah, I'm gonna feel for him. Because that's unfair, simple as that. What does it mean to him that a lot of Asians work at that job? Why are we viewing Asians as a collective hive mind or something? We should view things from an individualist point of view. And the thing is, this isn't going to combat institutionalized racism because it isn't addressing the actual problem.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Sometimes the pendulum has to swing far to the other side to correct decades of harm. As a white male I have zero fear this will affect my life in anyway. Nameless applications would be good too but still too easy to target whites by advertising positions to certain areas.

Also I can't believe you are being asked by a mod to show stats lol. Trump sure has normalized racist behavior. Pretty sad.

If you make claims then the burden of proof is on you. You need to back it up with evidence. Trump has nothing to do with this.

 

[WaterAstro]

It's fair to not care about skin colour or culture. The only reason is if they are hiring for a specific purpose of getting perspective on a certain culture, like if they are trying to make something better for Hispanics, they would hire Hispanics. It would be hard for a team of men to make a women's health app for the same reason.

Past statistics also don't matter. It's not evidence. Unless there's proof of a higher up writing some email or letter saying to hire more whites and asians, then statistics doesn't matter. Employment is whoever has the best skills and first come first serve. There's probably a lot of internal job market where white friends would recommending white friends, but that's the nature of the business.

 

[SatansReverence]

Googles work force is 91% white or Asian? Yeah, I’m not even going to bother to break out the worlds smallest violin for this alleged “discrimination”. If google feels they need a policy to combat institutionalized racism, good on them.

Could you be more transparent in your SJW crusade?

79.2% of Americans are white or asian.

Leaves what, 12% disparity?

But dat totally abhorrent institutionalised racism tho

But hey, you know, gotta be actively racist until it's down to a perfect 20/20/20/20/20 split right?

 

[Punchpudding]

From the article:

"We should only consider L3s from our underrepresented groups."

Even if you believe in diversity in the workplace (which I think most do), doesn't this seem to be going too far (if true)?

 

[Solomeena]

I am 100 percent all for making sure that we get better representation in the work force but not by literally being racist towards 1 or 2 groups of people, ridiculous if true from Google. Also, some people in this thread need to chill out trying to force the old Neogaf way of shouting down others because of their skin color, fuck that. Take that shit to Resetera.

 

[Vicetrailia]

From the article:

Even if you believe in diversity in the workplace (which I think most do), doesn't this seem to be going too far (if true)?

L3's are school grads, maybe they already made their targets for that. Actually I have no idea how they do it, but apparently they weren't gonna hit minority targets, and the season is now. May cometh.

 

[Punchpudding]

L3's are school grads, maybe they already made their targets for that. Actually I have no idea how they do it, but apparently they weren't gonna hit minority targets, and the season is now. May cometh.

This article has a bit more detail: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...because-i-resisted-illegal-diversity-efforts/

In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Staffing Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engineering interviews with every single applicant who was not either female, Black, or Hispanic and to purge entirely any applications by non-diverse employees from the hiring pipeline. Plaintiff refused to comply with this request.

It does sound like they have some sort of target/quota system and if you happen to fall outside the preferred race/gender you're SOL.

 

[GamingEnthusiast]

Identity politics (or as I like to call them "identitty politics") is the worst kind of politics and today's political climate is dominated by this regressive kind of politics.

 

[GamingEnthusiast]

Identity politics (or as I like to call them "identitty politics") is the worst kind of politics and today's political climate is dominated by this regressive kind of politics.

This situation was created because of identity politics. i hope the world goes back the way it used to be in the early 2000's.

 

[Dunki]

I think common sense approaches to hiring are best, I can only speak on what we've done.

When setting a diversity initiative in hiring they took a number of approaches.

1)The immediate area in which we are has very low diversity so the solution was to market in high diversity areas for job positions.
2) The idea was that it would increase the number of diverse applicants in the application pool
3) Next to attempt to remove individual bias at the hiring manager end HR sends demographic scrubbed resumes to hiring managers. Really just removing the headers.
4) HR also does all communication with the candidate including announcing if they were selected for an interview.
5) Next the department creates a hiring panel. My department had 10 people but they got 5 people to interview me as a panel. I've seen 20 person panels for administrators.
6) Once the panel has been created members of the panel submit questions to be asked in the interview.
7) HR collects the questions and compiles a master interview questionairre with a place for interviewee responses and point system 1-5 for each question.
8) These are enclosed with a packet for each interviewer and they interview the candidate as a group each taking a turn to ask a question from the paper.
9) No additional questions can really be asked.
10)All the papers are collected and while hiring managers have the final say HR will review the documents for inconsistencies.

If someone gave an interviewee all 1s on their questions and everyone gave 5s that interviewer would likely show some bias.
In addition is someone was highly rated but not hiring HR may go back and ask for more information on why.

Anyway, what I can say about this process is that its very good but not very efficient.
Out of 700 employees I was the only full time black man on staff until recently when we doubled that number to 2.
Some of the upper management have expressed their frustration with the process not being effective and I explained to them that they lack of diversity you are trying to combat is a deterrent.
There are prejudices in my own department I have to deal with and have considered leaving multiple times over it. The process is going to take a long time because people will be leery of low diversity places in the first place and even after being hired may experience prejudice which makes them leave. Again, the only thing that helps this process is having a good system in place and time.

So even with this amount and huge "waste" of time and money dont you think that there are other reasons for the lack of diversity than racial bias? I rally beleive that diversity is only useful when its being created on a natural way. Forced diversity is never a good way IMO. How to change it in the short process? I do not really know. Maybe invest more money in education for neighborhoods with general black population? Maybe make it so more black people get the actual qualification so more black people apply to these kind of jobs etc. Maybe invest money in poor areas to give the people living their a chance and a future. I do not think companies should force diversity because this will only lead to more jealousy and hatred especially when people hear news stories like this one. Or how BBC wanted only minority and women to apply to a job.

I got moderated for the "claims" I posted and asked to provide proof for each one of then so here goes. I'm not reposting the graphics.

A 2012 study published in the American Journal of Public Health found that about two-thirds of primary care doctors harbor “unconscious racial biases” toward their African-American patients, leading those doctors to spend less time with their black patients and involve them less in medical decisions. Although doctors typically aren’t aware that they’re treating African-American patients any differently, this ultimately creates an environment in which black people often don’t feel welcome in the medical system .

While black children constitute 18% of preschoolers nationwide, they make up nearly 50% of suspensions. When all age groups are examined, black students are three times more likely to be suspended than white students, even when their infractions are similar. Overall, black students represent 16% of student enrollment and 27% of students referred to law enforcement. And once black children are in the criminal justice system, they are 18 times more likely than white children to be than white children to be sentenced as adults.

Blacks, Latinos and Asians looking for homes were shown fewer housing options than whites who were equally qualified. And fewer options meant higher housing costs.

More than half of all young black Americans know someone, including themselves, who has been harassed by the police. Statistics also show that black drivers are about 30% more likely than whites to be pulled over by the police.

A black pedestrian’s wait time at the curb was about 32 percent longer than a white person’s. Blacks are twice as likely to die in pedestrian accidents than whites, perhaps because, according to one study, motorists are less likely to stop for blacks in the crosswalk.

The question here for me is why and to me all these stats come all down to class.

School: Kids in poorer areas are more likely to be more agressive because of the enviroment they grew up. You can see this in Germany as well in poor areas. Also I believe not knowing for a fact that staistically way more black children only being raised by single mothers which could also lead to a more "rebel" behaviour in school. Again I do not think this is because of their skincolor but because of their enviroment they grow up.

For housing: I need to know more about some statistics like the diverence of white and black people statistically pay rent or or not because they cant afford it. This could also be a reason when these markler assume they wont get the money in the end.

With police stops its a very complicated matter that I believe resuted in a never ending circle of bias not because they "hate" black people but black people staistically have more crime records '(jail statistics etc) I as a cop would probably also way more careful around black people hearing and knowing these stats for example that black people account for 52% of all murder in America even they are only account for 13% of the whole population. As a cop I would be way more aware if I know these stats. What we need to do here is to end and change the enviroment many black kids/people grew up in. Givve these people a chance and a future so these stats will change for the better which also would lead to less bias as a cop etc.

 

[Journeywalker]

This situation was created because of identity politics. i hope the world goes back the way it used to be in the early 2000's.

You're going to have to go back a bit further. The Southern Strategy is white identity politics, and that started with Nixon. Before that was Jim Crow, and before that was slavery based on race, and before that was...

I agree that identity politics is turning away centrists and conservatives, but that's because the very words required to describe injustice have become triggers for centrists and conservatives to become defensive or recoil at such "divisive" language.

 

[Dunki]

You're going to have to go back a bit further. The Southern Strategy is white identity politics, and that started with Nixon. Before that was Jim Crow, and before that was slavery based on race, and before that was...

I agree that identity politics is turning away centrists and conservatives, but that's because the very words required to describe injustice have become triggers for centrists and conservatives to become defensive or recoil at such "divisive" language.

It is not a word to describe injustice it is a word to hate white people and men by modern feminists. And it is a hateful language. Example "White cis male" is ALWAYS ued in a degotary way. When people talk about problems they always accuse white people or men for these.

Imagine if you would call out black people for bullshit? IT would be racist because of a generalisation. When people use terms like "white male tears" or "kill all men white people" and then argue that it was ot about all white people or men. I have to ask my self how stupid you can be to A actually think that this is an excuse or B. to actually believe people will buy this blatant racism and sexism.

When you try to make over the half of the population in a country the villain then of course it will f couse backlash. And centrists and moderate have beome really tired of this while the left is getting more and more radical. Especially in America they are basically two sides. Hitler or Marx there is nothing in between anymore in discussions and debates especially on Social media which by the way plays a huge role of the current situation in the World/America. Social media is absolute cancer for society.

 

[gradient]

Oh cry me a river. You conveniently ignore everything I said and cherry pick parts out of context to fit your narrative. The statistics are clear. Black people are discriminated against in job applications. Again I will ask, what is your solution to this problem other than leaving things as they are?

No, I just don't see fit to entertain your poor attempt at hand-waving and derailing the topic raised in the OP because of your own bias and discriminatory preferences. And that's what you're doing. In a topic about a major corporation being alleged to have impemented a POLICY of descriminating against individuals based solely upon their skin colour / sex you have done nothing to address the topic and instead constantly attempted to justify such descrimination as somehow acceptable and deserved. And you do this because it's against a group which you hold personal bias against and discriminate towards.

Your posts comes down to "X is okay because I think Y is worse and that makes X okay. Stop talking about X". Wrong genius, X and Y can both be wrong, it's not an either or. Discrimination against an individual based upon their skin colour and/or gender is wrong. That is a statement that is true for ALL people regardless of skin colour and gender, not just the ones you support because of your own racial and gender biases.

 

[TheGraykid]

Multiple things:

1. If Google is doing this then I think they're wrong, I don't think you should rule out looking at someone because of their race.
2. Do I think Google is actively doing this on a widespread level? I.e. Beyond at max a single gone rogue hiring manager. No. For multiple reasons. They're a huge company with a huge legal team who has certainly looked over their hiring process, so it's hard for me to believe they would have been this stupid. Also, their diversity statistics are in line with the entire industry which shouldn't be the case if they're actively discriminating against white and Asian people. Also it's only one person who's reported this occurring and I'm sure they have a huge hiring team. All of these things together make me initially doubt this.
3. In regards to the larger subject. The idea that hiring is a meritocracy where the best people get the jobs feels like a very simplistic view on the world. Especially when a whole bunch of studies show the exact opposite of this.
4. PoC are discriminated when it comes to hiring, there are a whole bunch of studies that show this. Therefore diversity initiatives aren't bringing race into the hiring process, it's always been there.
5. Should diversity initiatives exist? Yes, but not like the way they've been alleged to have happened at Google.

 

[Beard of the Forest]

I got moderated for the "claims" I posted and asked to provide proof for each one of then so here goes. I'm not reposting the graphics.

A 2012 study published in the American Journal of Public Health found that about two-thirds of primary care doctors harbor “unconscious racial biases” toward their African-American patients, leading those doctors to spend less time with their black patients and involve them less in medical decisions. Although doctors typically aren’t aware that they’re treating African-American patients any differently, this ultimately creates an environment in which black people often don’t feel welcome in the medical system .

While black children constitute 18% of preschoolers nationwide, they make up nearly 50% of suspensions. When all age groups are examined, black students are three times more likely to be suspended than white students, even when their infractions are similar. Overall, black students represent 16% of student enrollment and 27% of students referred to law enforcement. And once black children are in the criminal justice system, they are 18 times more likely than white children to be than white children to be sentenced as adults.

Blacks, Latinos and Asians looking for homes were shown fewer housing options than whites who were equally qualified. And fewer options meant higher housing costs.

More than half of all young black Americans know someone, including themselves, who has been harassed by the police. Statistics also show that black drivers are about 30% more likely than whites to be pulled over by the police.

A black pedestrian’s wait time at the curb was about 32 percent longer than a white person’s. Blacks are twice as likely to die in pedestrian accidents than whites, perhaps because, according to one study, motorists are less likely to stop for blacks in the crosswalk.

When you're spouting out statistics that not many people are familiar with, it does nothing but solidify your position to provide supporting evidence. Your stance on racism existing and is not make believe now has merit. Honestly though, I don't know who exactly was arguing against that fact.

Sometimes the pendulum has to swing far to the other side to correct decades of harm. As a white male I have zero fear this will affect my life in anyway. Nameless applications would be good too but still too easy to target whites by advertising positions to certain areas.

Also I can't believe you are being asked by a mod to show stats lol. Trump sure has normalized racist behavior. Pretty sad.

OMG, someone asked for proof instead of accepting every statement made by strangers on the internet! He's obviously racist, his parent are racist, his neighbors are racist. We're all racist for reading it and not killing ourselves!

This mentality is just stupid. I'll refrain for addressing the other similar aspects of your post for now.

No, I just don't see fit to entertain your poor attempt at hand-waving and derailing the topic raised in the OP because of your own bias and discriminatory preferences. And that's what you're doing. In a topic about a major corporation being alleged to have impemented a POLICY of descriminating against individuals based solely upon their skin colour / sex you have done nothing to address the topic and instead constantly attempted to justify such descrimination as somehow acceptable and deserved. And you do this because it's against a group which you hold personal bias against and discriminate towards.

Your posts comes down to "X is okay because I think Y is worse and that makes X okay. Stop talking about X". Wrong genius, X and Y can both be wrong, it's not an either or. Discrimination against an individual based upon their skin colour and/or gender is wrong. That is a statement that is true for ALL people regardless of skin colour and gender, not just the ones you support because of your own racial and gender biases.

This post lays it out in a pretty straight forward manner. Racism against "X" does not make racism against "Y" acceptable. Just so we're clear, denying someone a job opportunity solely based on their race is racism.

Personally, I don't believe introducing more racist practices is the best course of action to rid the world of racism but if that's your answer, at least be upfront about it. I think you'd have to be blind to not see that minorities still face discrimination in many aspects of their lives. I don't know if there's a perfect solution to be had in our imperfect world. Luckily this thread is about inappropriate hiring practices being enforced by Google and not about whether or not racism exists.

 

[Journeywalker]

It is not a word to describe injustice it is a word to hate white people and men by modern feminists. And it is a hateful language. Example "White cis male" is ALWAYS ued in a degotary way. When people talk about problems they always accuse white people or men for these.

Imagine if you would call out black people for bullshit? IT would be racist because of a generalisation. When people use terms like "white male tears" or "kill all men white people" and then argue that it was ot about all white people or men. I have to ask my self how stupid you can be to A actually think that this is an excuse or B. to actually believe people will buy this blatant racism and sexism.

When you try to make over the half of the population in a country the villain then of course it will f couse backlash. And centrists and moderate have beome really tired of this while the left is getting more and more radical. Especially in America they are basically two sides. Hitler or Marx there is nothing in between anymore in discussions and debates especially on Social media which by the way plays a huge role of the current situation in the World/America. Social media is absolute cancer for society.

Thanks for proving my point. I didn't even use a word that described injustice. I alluded to the fact that these words EXIST and you got defensive. I can't speak for the people that undermined the validity of your experience. I know that sucks. I can't speak for all SJWs or progressives or butterflies or whatever group you have a beef with. So I'd appreciate it if we stick to what I actually said. Part of making divisiveness go away is making sure you don't assume you know what a person means before they speak.

 

[Alfadawg]

Google have been a bit clumsy in how they have gone about it but I wonder if this guy would have objected if he was told no blacks, women or Mexicans...

 

[Vicetrailia]

- Hiring the best candidate peroid does not equal higher performance of teams. There's an emperical value to hiring diverse teams. You want the best of the best and you want diversity.

But anyway, his story makes for an interesting read: https://www.scribd.com/document/372802863/18-CIV-00442-ARNE-WILBERG-vs-GOOGLE-INC-et-al

Retaliation is well documented.

 

[Journeywalker]

Personally, I don't believe introducing more racist practices is the best course of action to rid the world of racism but if that's your answer, at least be upfront about it. I think you'd have to be blind to not see that minorities still face discrimination in many aspects of their lives. I don't know if there's a perfect solution to be had in our imperfect world. Luckily this thread is about inappropriate hiring practices being enforced by Google and not about whether or not racism exists.

Please note, I do not support Google's hiring practices if they are setting quotas as alleged in the lawsuit. Quotas are a shitty attempt to provide equality of opportunity, which I think is the end goal.

"Trust, but verify" is a good Russian saying. With lawsuits, the saying should be "Distrust, verify twice," because of the expected profit motive of the lawyer. It doesn't look like they have the verify part, so we're talking about allegations.

Assuming the allegations are true, I think the existence of racism against minorities is relevant because it at least tries to justify measures that go beyond equality of the means. By "equality of the means," I mean a libertarian's wet dream: color-blind, gender-blind, sexuality-blind, beauty-blind, etc*. If that can be established, then it can be argued that the status quo reinforces existing inequality of opportunity.

The problem will DEFINITELY not get better as long as White people believe they are the true victims of racism.

*Actually, the true libertarian position would be that Google can hire and fire anyone at any time for any reason, but that doesn't seem to be present in this thread.

 

[Dunki]

Please note, I do not support Google's hiring practices if they are setting quotas as alleged in the lawsuit. Quotas are a shitty attempt to provide equality of opportunity, which I think is the end goal.

"Trust, but verify" is a good Russian saying. With lawsuits, the saying should be "Distrust, verify twice," because of the expected profit motive of the lawyer. It doesn't look like they have the verify part, so we're talking about allegations.

Assuming the allegations are true, I think the existence of racism against minorities is relevant because it at least tries to justify measures that go beyond equality of the means. By "equality of the means," I mean a libertarian's wet dream: color-blind, gender-blind, sexuality-blind, beauty-blind, etc*. If that can be established, then it can be argued that the status quo reinforces existing inequality of opportunity.

The problem will DEFINITELY not get better as long as White people believe they are the true victims of racism.

*Actually, the true libertarian position would be that Google can hire and fire anyone at any time for any reason, but that doesn't seem to be present in this thread.

First of all people beleive there has been a shift to a more radical more racist bias which you can totally see on Social media, demonstrations, discussions regarding the current situations in South Africa etc. The tone has become more vile and violent. You can see daily articles on main sites which have the word white in a negative way. Anotehr example the articles I posted about how a mother argues that her black child should never be friends with white kids because you can not trust white people. And that was one from the New York times for fucks sake.

It is not about white people getting more scared to lose what they have it is about the tone that has changed drastically in the last few years. And no a true libertarian would argue that no discrimination is ok and that there is no postive discrimination like some people call it.

 

[Atrus]

I'm a bit confused, why is it suddenly in fashion to publically discriminate against Asians?

 

[Moneal]

I'm a bit confused, why is it suddenly in fashion to publically discriminate against Asians?

Because they are so privileged even whites can discriminate against them, you know punching up and all that./s

 

[Dunki]

I'm a bit confused, why is it suddenly in fashion to publically discriminate against Asians?

Because this is how it works today.

you are only oppressed in their eyes if you are black and or a women. Others do not even county anymore. It has become fucking stupid^^

 

[llien]

79.2% of Americans are white or asian.

Leaves what, 12% disparity?

Well, only 5.6% of US population is Asian.
But it's 35% of hires at Google.

Quite a disparity.

 

[Atrus]

Well, only 5.6% of US population is Asian.
But it's 35% of hires at Google.

Quite a disparity.

So? Has anyone considered the cultural and societal factors that influence Asians and their success outcomes?

Indian Americans represent about 1% or less of the US population but are disproportionately over-represented in the Scripps spelling bee winners. Does this mean we have to ban Indians from competing?

 

[Cato]

So? Has anyone considered the cultural and societal factors that influence Asians and their success outcomes?

Indian Americans represent about 1% or less of the US population but are disproportionately over-represented in the Scripps spelling bee winners. Does this mean we have to ban Indians from competing?

Banning them would be too harsh, but maybe give the Indian Americans harder words ?
/s

 

[llien]

So? Has anyone considered the cultural and societal factors that influence Asians and their success outcomes?

I did and I'm sure so did many.
The issue is it discovers deeper problems that can not be used to leverage against any particular company, maybe that's why Discourse is ignoring it.

Just so that my post is not misread:
1) Biases do exist
2) There is a burden of the past that is still having an impact
3) However it's not the last mile, the hiring process, where it is happening, definitely not in companies in which HR has "diversity targets", where it makes you more likely to get hired.

TL;DR
Due to what's going on in earlier stages of one's career, minorities are underrepresented in the pool of hirable candidates and consequently lag behind as hired personnel, despite HR actively looking for them.