Let's be glad it still isn't treated as a sport. sigh ...............
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Grand jury declines to indict police officer in fatal shooting of 12yr old Tamir Rice
- Thread starter Kid Kamikaze10
- Start date
- Status
Let's be glad it still isn't treated as a sport. sigh ...............
Some of us like to think that most people are decent. So, it must be a really weird anomaly that every comment section on the internet is brimming with indecent people.
I think the world is the way it is because most of us aren't decent. We're really good at improving the way we live but very bad at improving the way we behave. Decency is not our natural state. We have to be slowly coaxed into decency and it takes forfuckingever.
He is the only one that can calm down Black People. I jus don't get it.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Saw this on Twitter thanks to Jesse Williams.
This woman quite literally did everything wrong unlike Tamir, and wasn't a child, unlike Tamir. Still alive.
I've seen videos of cops talking down people with guns constantly all over the internet. But the moment a black kid with a toy guy in the park gets gunned down, people are doing Olympic level mental gymnastics routines to justify it.
This will never change. It'll never end, and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to live with that, because it hurts.
cascardian
Member
This peculiar, egg shaped man is the Cleveland Police Union Chief. When the bar is set so low, anyone can seem fit for duty.
I've got to tell you, Tim Loehmann's (the shooter) record really does not exactly inspire confidence if that wasn't already clear enough. I'm not sure how much of that is the chief's fault, but they didn't even check Loehmann's file before they hired him. Here are some choice excerpts from it:
As if this whole case already could not possibly get any more screwed up, this is the guy McGinty is covering for. I simply cannot believe this.
Syph Medwes
Member
Because of the way the burden of proof works in criminal vs. civil cases. Frequently the decision to not indict stems simply from the fact that they don't think they can secure a conviction. I understand why not trying doesn't sit well with some people, but the point of my post was that people are too emotional (albeit understandably) and don't realize the different perspectives at play, ie., specifically the legal one.
That's a fair assessment.
see above (I should've specified surprised more than angry beforehand)
My post pertained to surprise over the decision to not indict, no one mentioned any "evening out" but alright. Interesting how you and a couple others I will reply to in this post try to immediately inject race into it. "those people" etc. You should be embarrassed. My post wasn't "looking down" on you or patronizing, it was noting the very real occurrence in these threads that when something shitty (and this is by all accounts horrible) happens, it is par for the course to begin making blanket statements about cops etc.. I just find something wrong with that. However, in the event that when you said "folks" you weren't talking about me then no harm no foul.
...but I don't think justice is served, my post pertained to degrees of surprise and how the lack of criminal indictment isn't that surprising while it would be if there weren't a civil conviction. Although if I had (which I unequivocally didn't), what would it be telling of?
no one is disputing that
Why? Because I said something you didn't like? Why don't you explain what that is if that is in fact the case instead of immediately moving to censor it? The irony is that I find your post the most dangerous of all; the ones implying racism are bad enough, but I can sleep easy knowing they're bullshit, but when you just want to arbitrarily report someone, that is truly dangerous (albeit of course forums have different rules etc. but my point still retains merit).
I said Mr. because I was thinking of the estate and it's generally weird/impolite to use the first name of someone you don't know (but I am guilty of having done it) but I understand if that specifically came across as obtuse. But it wasn't meant to be! Sidenote, would you have taken issue with "Rice's"? or "Tamir's"? or the full name? That's not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious which you think is most appropriate. Perhaps the full name would be best. At what point do you switch to Mr./Mrs.? At what point does the time expended getting hung up on pronouns become wasteful? Probably now lol.
Are you out of your mind? What exactly are you implying? The exceeding irony of this is that if anything should be bannable, it should be randomly accusing someone of being racist. Not everyone who has a contrary opinion is racist. What a horrible and damaging charge to lay against someone, branding them a racist. If that's not what you were implying then alright, but it sure seems like it.
Garbage post from a garbage person.
Reading this thread really makes me sad. A child cannot be a child just for the color of their skin.
This one is a little less ambiguous. You also took the time to send me a message privately calling me an asshole and saying "fuck you". That's unfortunate but I'm here to offer clarification on anything. Hopefully in a respectful manner but that's clearly going to be an uphill battle for you.
Would you like to explain why? Or have I cleared things up in the preceding replies? Feel free to say if I haven't been clear enough of my original intentions.
Never the point but also addressed this above!
You raise an interesting point though, is justice purely administered through criminal proceedings or civil proceeding "enough"? Are both essential? (obviously nothing is really enough but the gist of my question stands)
All in all, some brutal responses but such is life on an internet forum where words get construed. Disappointing I felt the need to respond to all those after receiving a PM but that's ok. That's how discourse should work, you make a statement, people reply (in theory with their own laid out argument), and you respond.
The timing of this case brought it to the forefront and hopefully it doesn't take anymore brutal cases to result in change (of course that is unlikely unfortunately). How that change comes about I am unsure but staying in the eyes and ears of the public is important and as long as instances like these are continually reported and are on peoples' minds hopefully something will happen.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Good God, how is that word that powerful to you? Why is reacting like this to just the thought of the word "racist" a thing? No one even wrote it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Man, you knew exactly what you were doing with that post. Hope it gave you some holiday warmth
Dude Abides
Banned
This decision was made by a grand jury, not a prosecutor. A grand jury doesn't consider whether the prosecutor can secure a conviction. Grand juries generally just do what the prosecutor wants them to do. Here the prosecutor essentially told them not to indict.
It really has nothing to do with burdens of proof. You don't seem to understand the legal perspective here very well.
Your "poor me" act is a little rich after you insulted most of the posters in the thread.
nitekrawlwer
Member
What exactly do you find wrong with that?
Really should stop falling for that. They only care about stiring shit up instead of the issue.
freeofgreed
Member
The tone of this post vs the tone of your original response are completely different. It's clear what you were trying to do with that original post. You making this long winding reply to try to backtrack on that doesn't change anything.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
Openly holding a weapon in that state is a legal right.
How are these police getting away with brazenly violating this persons right to lawfully holding a gun, much less getting away with brazenly taking his life?
Fuck the police.
How are these police getting away with brazenly violating this persons right to lawfully holding a gun, much less getting away with brazenly taking his life?
Fuck the police.
Claude Augario
Member
Whoa now let's not bring the R-word into this discussion! We don't want people feeling like they're being judged based on their words and actions or anything like that.
Aaronology
Member
And? Dumb posts can't be called out because the poster may or may not be angry? This story is undeniably an example of one of the problems with the justice system in America. However, using it in a drive by post to shit on the entire United States is idiotic.
Not quite ironic, but close.
Good question. Meanwhile, PoC have to deal with this:
Saw this on the news yesterday, saddened that there will be no consequence for the actions of these officers.
Per Federal law, minors cannot legally posses handguns.
Per Federal law, minors cannot legally posses handguns.
part of the cop's defense was that tamir was so big he thought he was an adult
Yep. It's part of David Duke et al's script
kame-sennin
Member
I just saw an interview with David Duke where he went on a rant about how calling someone a racist is the worst thing you can call a person. Where is this coming from?
Michael Freeden has argued that a key aspect of conservative ideology is being able to appropriate the values of opposing ideologies in order to protect the conservative's idea of the proper form of society. At the same time that the US switched from de jure (explicitly coded) to de facto (implicitly derived) institutional racism, racists realized that they could protect the institutions of racism by borrowing from the left's growing understanding of identity politics. They saw that the activity of "racism" could be isolated within certain overt behaviours, such as using the word "nigger," and that social discourse was moving away from blanket associations of actions with identities. They saw how the left made it taboo to use racist terms, as a way to shutdown racist discourse.
Racists decided that the best way to deflect public discussion away from de facto systems of racism was to make those discussions taboo, by borrowing the technique of coding certain terms (in this case "racist") as publicly unacceptable. They connected the term "racist" to identity politics by trying to dress it up as a demeaning term in the same way that "nigger" is. As a result, if you call a white person racist for, say, refusing to acknowledge a bias against black people within the criminal justice system, you're unfairly reducing them to a blanket identity which they don't see as their own. They can then center discussions about institutional racism around how it relates to white people and what their experiences are, diminishing the ability for the victims of systemic racism to argue their own cases.
That's a long way to say that it's an intentionally-conceived silencing tactic.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
America is a disgusting fuck hole of a country.
Disagree?
I don't give a shit.
If a country exists where a government employee can essentially execute a pre-teen child for playing with toys and it's termed as just carrying out his job......
Where a worried mother calls police to help control her son of with mental illness and they show up and murder him almost immediately...... And in a similar situation end up murdering an innocent bystander too...
Where a guy can be standing on the sidewalk after breaking up a fight and the police end up using an illegal choke hold till he dies from it.
And nobody can do anything.
Sorry, your country is fucking disgusting. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Save your "but what about all the good stuff" speech. What the fuck about all the good stuff? Yeah iPhones are great. Muscle cars are nice. There are nice people okay. But what are those nice people doing about all the KILLING?
It's LEGAL to kill children playing with toy guns in America.
It is PERFECTLY LEGAL for a dispatch operator to NOT relay proper information about the weapon being fake to an officer and for said officer to pull up his car just short of running the child over and executing him WITHIN TWO SECONDS OF ARRIVING ON THE Scene....
That's legal. That's how your system works.
And there isn't nationwide 100% outrage.
A policeman MURDERS a child just barely into double digit age figures because dispatch messed up and because the officer failed to assess the scene...... and I'm not actually sure America on the whole actually gives a fuck.
It's disgusting. Everything about it is DISGUSTING and I have ZERO respect for America, because America on the whole as a people, as a system, as a country, allow it and move on like it's nothing.
That's sickening to me.
Dont talk to me about Assad killing his own people in Syria when your law system is literally set up to protect government sanctioned murder EVERY, DAY.
Your law enforcement are trained to kill people with mental illness. YOUR POLICE ARE TRAINED TO KILLING SICK PEOPLE.
Just last weekend officers who were supposed to be diffusing a household dispute ended up murdering two people because a 19 year old "charged" at an officer with a BASEBALL BAT loooooool.
HUUURRRR DUUUUR SECONDS MENDMENTZ IS FUR PERTECTIN AGINST GOVERNMENT WRONGDOINGS. BUT THE REALITY IS I'M ACTUALLY TOO CHICKEN SHIT TO DO A DAMN THING. OR I JUST DON'T CARE.
MERICA.
Uuuugh.
See, nobody minds when people talk about other countries in this way when atrocities are committed.
What's worse, ISIS burning a guy to death in a cage to make a political statement.
Or two police officers manhandling a guy in the street and getting two bullets point blank in the back and left to die in a pool of his own blood, while restrained, because one officer was shot..... by the other officer.... who stayed perfectly quiet about it and made the other officer think it was the Suspect? As part of their every day job and people only know the truth because of a person hiding with a mobile phone recording it all?
Which one of those murders is worse and deserves worldwide vilification and disgust?
Is it only bad when the executions are in public, but no so bad when done when people think nobody is watching?
A terrorist group kills people wrongfully, that's bad. But people worldwide accept that it is bad and fight against it. Because it is bad.
A policeman is called to calm down mentally ill teen HOLDING a baseball bat, opens the door and executes him AND his neighbour who simply opened the door..... and the government is already en route to protect the policeman and there isn't nation wide rage. It's bad, but...... That's just merica. What can you do?
Police raid a house, send a flashback into a little girls bedroom and burn her to death in her own bed. No charges. It's bad but, what can you do? It just merica guys.
OH MY GOD ASSAD JUST KILLED SOME OF HIS OWN PEOPLE!!! WE NEEDS TO GET IN THERE AND REMOVE HIM FROM. POWER!!
But when the FUCK is America going to come together and get the NRA( who murder probably the same amount of people as Assad or even more via proxy combined with government sanctioned murder) out of politics and the of their lives?
It's so disgusting I can't even get my head around it. I could go on forever.
I can reel story after story after story of unarmed, homeless, mentally ill, children, elderly, disabled people who have been murdered BY THE GOVERNMENT, with no repercussions to anyone except the thousands upon thousands of ruined families.
If protecting HUMAN life isn't enough to use all those second amendment guns that babies to the elderly die for EVERY DAY to actually fight back in SOME way, then what the he'll. Are you waiting for? It essentially turns the reason thousands have died over the years because of high gun ownership into fuck all to do with ownership rights and everything to do with HUUR DUUUUR I LIKE GUNS. PEOPLE CAN DIE, JUST LET ME HAVE MY GUNS. I REALLY LIKE THEM.
That alone is disgusting.
It's sick. It's truly sick.
Maybe some. People will think I'm overreacting.
MAYBE GOVERNMENT MURDERING CITIZENS AND AMERICA NOTE "OVERREACTING" AS A WHOLE IS THE PROBLEM.
People will read this post and feel pissed because they might feel the exact same way, but feel like I'm addressing them too, and they want to do something but feel powerless.
That feeling of powerlessness is proof the majority of America doesn't give a SHIT.
When you have a country with a huge fucking gun problem, where if a politician ever dared to run for the presidency on the basis of solving that problem hed be immediately removed from the first stages of running, it shows America as a people are just fine with things.
That's sick.
My dad who's had mental problems this year, could easily have been a dead man right now based on things that have happened had we lived in America.
That's truly scary to me.
All the people who were on the ward he stayed at briefly, if we were in America, at least a good few of those people would not be in hospital getting help, they'd be dead in a box.
My chest feels tight just typing that out, yet it's every day life for America. Men, women and children who need Help this year, next year and the year after that will be executed by those who should protect and serve. Why? Because police are taught to eliminate risk instead of doing their damn jobs.
Aaaaagh
Disagree?
I don't give a shit.
If a country exists where a government employee can essentially execute a pre-teen child for playing with toys and it's termed as just carrying out his job......
Where a worried mother calls police to help control her son of with mental illness and they show up and murder him almost immediately...... And in a similar situation end up murdering an innocent bystander too...
Where a guy can be standing on the sidewalk after breaking up a fight and the police end up using an illegal choke hold till he dies from it.
And nobody can do anything.
Sorry, your country is fucking disgusting. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Save your "but what about all the good stuff" speech. What the fuck about all the good stuff? Yeah iPhones are great. Muscle cars are nice. There are nice people okay. But what are those nice people doing about all the KILLING?
It's LEGAL to kill children playing with toy guns in America.
It is PERFECTLY LEGAL for a dispatch operator to NOT relay proper information about the weapon being fake to an officer and for said officer to pull up his car just short of running the child over and executing him WITHIN TWO SECONDS OF ARRIVING ON THE Scene....
That's legal. That's how your system works.
And there isn't nationwide 100% outrage.
A policeman MURDERS a child just barely into double digit age figures because dispatch messed up and because the officer failed to assess the scene...... and I'm not actually sure America on the whole actually gives a fuck.
It's disgusting. Everything about it is DISGUSTING and I have ZERO respect for America, because America on the whole as a people, as a system, as a country, allow it and move on like it's nothing.
That's sickening to me.
Dont talk to me about Assad killing his own people in Syria when your law system is literally set up to protect government sanctioned murder EVERY, DAY.
Your law enforcement are trained to kill people with mental illness. YOUR POLICE ARE TRAINED TO KILLING SICK PEOPLE.
Just last weekend officers who were supposed to be diffusing a household dispute ended up murdering two people because a 19 year old "charged" at an officer with a BASEBALL BAT loooooool.
HUUURRRR DUUUUR SECONDS MENDMENTZ IS FUR PERTECTIN AGINST GOVERNMENT WRONGDOINGS. BUT THE REALITY IS I'M ACTUALLY TOO CHICKEN SHIT TO DO A DAMN THING. OR I JUST DON'T CARE.
MERICA.
Uuuugh.
See, nobody minds when people talk about other countries in this way when atrocities are committed.
What's worse, ISIS burning a guy to death in a cage to make a political statement.
Or two police officers manhandling a guy in the street and getting two bullets point blank in the back and left to die in a pool of his own blood, while restrained, because one officer was shot..... by the other officer.... who stayed perfectly quiet about it and made the other officer think it was the Suspect? As part of their every day job and people only know the truth because of a person hiding with a mobile phone recording it all?
Which one of those murders is worse and deserves worldwide vilification and disgust?
Is it only bad when the executions are in public, but no so bad when done when people think nobody is watching?
A terrorist group kills people wrongfully, that's bad. But people worldwide accept that it is bad and fight against it. Because it is bad.
A policeman is called to calm down mentally ill teen HOLDING a baseball bat, opens the door and executes him AND his neighbour who simply opened the door..... and the government is already en route to protect the policeman and there isn't nation wide rage. It's bad, but...... That's just merica. What can you do?
Police raid a house, send a flashback into a little girls bedroom and burn her to death in her own bed. No charges. It's bad but, what can you do? It just merica guys.
OH MY GOD ASSAD JUST KILLED SOME OF HIS OWN PEOPLE!!! WE NEEDS TO GET IN THERE AND REMOVE HIM FROM. POWER!!
But when the FUCK is America going to come together and get the NRA( who murder probably the same amount of people as Assad or even more via proxy combined with government sanctioned murder) out of politics and the of their lives?
It's so disgusting I can't even get my head around it. I could go on forever.
I can reel story after story after story of unarmed, homeless, mentally ill, children, elderly, disabled people who have been murdered BY THE GOVERNMENT, with no repercussions to anyone except the thousands upon thousands of ruined families.
If protecting HUMAN life isn't enough to use all those second amendment guns that babies to the elderly die for EVERY DAY to actually fight back in SOME way, then what the he'll. Are you waiting for? It essentially turns the reason thousands have died over the years because of high gun ownership into fuck all to do with ownership rights and everything to do with HUUR DUUUUR I LIKE GUNS. PEOPLE CAN DIE, JUST LET ME HAVE MY GUNS. I REALLY LIKE THEM.
That alone is disgusting.
It's sick. It's truly sick.
Maybe some. People will think I'm overreacting.
MAYBE GOVERNMENT MURDERING CITIZENS AND AMERICA NOTE "OVERREACTING" AS A WHOLE IS THE PROBLEM.
People will read this post and feel pissed because they might feel the exact same way, but feel like I'm addressing them too, and they want to do something but feel powerless.
That feeling of powerlessness is proof the majority of America doesn't give a SHIT.
When you have a country with a huge fucking gun problem, where if a politician ever dared to run for the presidency on the basis of solving that problem hed be immediately removed from the first stages of running, it shows America as a people are just fine with things.
That's sick.
My dad who's had mental problems this year, could easily have been a dead man right now based on things that have happened had we lived in America.
That's truly scary to me.
All the people who were on the ward he stayed at briefly, if we were in America, at least a good few of those people would not be in hospital getting help, they'd be dead in a box.
My chest feels tight just typing that out, yet it's every day life for America. Men, women and children who need Help this year, next year and the year after that will be executed by those who should protect and serve. Why? Because police are taught to eliminate risk instead of doing their damn jobs.
Aaaaagh
theignoramus
Member
Wow. This white lady did everything John Crawford and tamir rice didn't do, even threatened the cops, and was still afforded a professional and restrained effort by responding officers.
#blacklivesdontmatter
The US media would have a propaganda feeding frenzy if some enemy country was treating its citizens the way blacks are treated in America.
freeofgreed
Member
You can call it out all you want. But doing so in such a thread just makes you come off like a tool, everyone whose every had an interaction with a real human being knows that poster didn't actually mean that. So you coming in and defending the US (as if it needed it) in this thread of all places just comes off as insensitive and tone def.
theignoramus
Member
Fuck tone policing. Some people need to vent in threads like this, let them.
timetokill
Banned
Are you asking people to just start shooting cops? Or carry out vigilante justice on the cops involved in these things?
I'm honestly curious.
Mammoth Jones
Member
When your worldview is that Blacks are terrible and violent people it's easy to justify violence against them in order to "keep them in line".
We still struggle to be viewed as human beings. I'd argue most bigots would reply with "then y'all gotta act like human beings" which is a worldview fueled by foxnews and not reality. When your only knowledge of black folk is what you see on the news and what your bigot friends say then it's easy to come to the conclusion that shit like this is ok.
Let me ask you this: What do you think would mainstream White Americans do under this type of tyranny from their own police force??
Motherfuckers were ready to fight over some bigot not paying his taxes on his cattle...
America is a disgusting fuck hole of a country.
Disagree?
I don't give a shit.
If a country exists where a government employee can essentially execute a pre-teen child for playing with toys and it's termed as just carrying out his job......
Where a worried mother calls police to help control her son of with mental illness and they show up and murder him almost immediately...... And in a similar situation end up murdering an innocent bystander too...
Where a guy can be standing on the sidewalk after breaking up a fight and the police end up using an illegal choke hold till he dies from it.
And nobody can do anything.
Sorry, your country is fucking disgusting. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Save your "but what about all the good stuff" speech. What the fuck about all the good stuff? Yeah iPhones are great. Muscle cars are nice. There are nice people okay. But what are those nice people doing about all the KILLING?
It's LEGAL to kill children playing with toy guns in America.
It is PERFECTLY LEGAL for a dispatch operator to NOT relay proper information about the weapon being fake to an officer and for said officer to pull up his car just short of running the child over and executing him WITHIN TWO SECONDS OF ARRIVING ON THE Scene....
That's legal. That's how your system works.
And there isn't nationwide 100% outrage.
A policeman MURDERS a child just barely into double digit age figures because dispatch messed up and because the officer failed to assess the scene...... and I'm not actually sure America on the whole actually gives a fuck.
It's disgusting. Everything about it is DISGUSTING and I have ZERO respect for America, because America on the whole as a people, as a system, as a country, allow it and move on like it's nothing.
That's sickening to me.
Dont talk to me about Assad killing his own people in Syria when your law system is literally set up to protect government sanctioned murder EVERY, DAY.
Your law enforcement are trained to kill people with mental illness. YOUR POLICE ARE TRAINED TO KILLING SICK PEOPLE.
Just last weekend officers who were supposed to be diffusing a household dispute ended up murdering two people because a 19 year old "charged" at an officer with a BASEBALL BAT loooooool.
HUUURRRR DUUUUR SECONDS MENDMENTZ IS FUR PERTECTIN AGINST GOVERNMENT WRONGDOINGS. BUT THE REALITY IS I'M ACTUALLY TOO CHICKEN SHIT TO DO A DAMN THING. OR I JUST DON'T CARE.
MERICA.
Uuuugh.
See, nobody minds when people talk about other countries in this way when atrocities are committed.
What's worse, ISIS burning a guy to death in a cage to make a political statement.
Or two police officers manhandling a guy in the street and getting two bullets point blank in the back and left to die in a pool of his own blood, while restrained, because one officer was shot..... by the other officer.... who stayed perfectly quiet about it and made the other officer think it was the Suspect? As part of their every day job and people only know the truth because of a person hiding with a mobile phone recording it all?
Which one of those murders is worse and deserves worldwide vilification and disgust?
Is it only bad when the executions are in public, but no so bad when done when people think nobody is watching?
A terrorist group kills people wrongfully, that's bad. But people worldwide accept that it is bad and fight against it. Because it is bad.
A policeman is called to calm down mentally ill teen HOLDING a baseball bat, opens the door and executes him AND his neighbour who simply opened the door..... and the government is already en route to protect the policeman and there isn't nation wide rage. It's bad, but...... That's just merica. What can you do?
Police raid a house, send a flashback into a little girls bedroom and burn her to death in her own bed. No charges. It's bad but, what can you do? It just merica guys.
OH MY GOD ASSAD JUST KILLED SOME OF HIS OWN PEOPLE!!! WE NEEDS TO GET IN THERE AND REMOVE HIM FROM. POWER!!
But when the FUCK is America going to come together and get the NRA( who murder probably the same amount of people as Assad or even more via proxy combined with government sanctioned murder) out of politics and the of their lives?
It's so disgusting I can't even get my head around it. I could go on forever.
I can reel story after story after story of unarmed, homeless, mentally ill, children, elderly, disabled people who have been murdered BY THE GOVERNMENT, with no repercussions to anyone except the thousands upon thousands of ruined families.
If protecting HUMAN life isn't enough to use all those second amendment guns that babies to the elderly die for EVERY DAY to actually fight back in SOME way, then what the he'll. Are you waiting for? It essentially turns the reason thousands have died over the years because of high gun ownership into fuck all to do with ownership rights and everything to do with HUUR DUUUUR I LIKE GUNS. PEOPLE CAN DIE, JUST LET ME HAVE MY GUNS. I REALLY LIKE THEM.
That alone is disgusting.
It's sick. It's truly sick.
Maybe some. People will think I'm overreacting.
MAYBE GOVERNMENT MURDERING CITIZENS AND AMERICA NOTE "OVERREACTING" AS A WHOLE IS THE PROBLEM.
People will read this post and feel pissed because they might feel the exact same way, but feel like I'm addressing them too, and they want to do something but feel powerless.
That feeling of powerlessness is proof the majority of America doesn't give a SHIT.
When you have a country with a huge fucking gun problem, where if a politician ever dared to run for the presidency on the basis of solving that problem hed be immediately removed from the first stages of running, it shows America as a people are just fine with things.
That's sick.
My dad who's had mental problems this year, could easily have been a dead man right now based on things that have happened had we lived in America.
That's truly scary to me.
All the people who were on the ward he stayed at briefly, if we were in America, at least a good few of those people would not be in hospital getting help, they'd be dead in a box.
My chest feels tight just typing that out, yet it's every day life for America. Men, women and children who need Help this year, next year and the year after that will be executed by those who should protect and serve. Why? Because police are taught to eliminate risk instead of doing their damn jobs.
Aaaaagh
But you see, but you see, America totally frowns on state executions when it's white people. Don't you understand those ni ... minorities bring it on themselves? It's not like their lives matter or anything.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
I was making a point.
That point being that that the s cond amendment defence is pure bullshit and the real reason why thousands upon thousands upon thousands and many more future thousands of Americans die from gun wounds is because it's got fuck all to do with standing up to tyrannical government and everything to do with people just loving guns.
Also because the NRA basically owns the GOP and more through donations and money in politics.
Sandy hook happened because Americans love guns.
Police get to murder a person (or ten, or many more) every day because Americans love guns.
Mentally ill people who need help are instead executed, put down like rabid dogs, because Americans love guns.
Gun homicides happen at a staggering rate because Americans love guns.
There are more mass shootings than there are days in the year in America, because America loves guns.
People kill themselves, their friends or family by accident, because America loves guns.
The blood of all Americans killed semi recently is on the hands of Americas love of guns and the second amendment bullshit reason for why the country MUST be flooded wth killing tools is a bullshit reason and pretty irrelevant.
If anything the second amendment is just an enabler,for Americas love of,guns.
Even your reaction of "what, so you want people to actually fight back wth their guns against corrupt govt murdering it's people?" just shows how fucking absurd, irrelevant, stupid, incapable, outdated and straight up bullshit the second amendment excuse is because when it comes down to it, there is NO fight back and the huge amount of,guns in the country is of ZERO deterrent.
I can agree with this. We can keep trying to vote for politicians who will try and fix this, but a large amount of American vote against their best interests or only for their own personal benefit alone. Even if we are successful, there's too much money being exchanged in the background and under the table to makes sure progress is delayed or never happens all. Our constitution and the courts' interpretation of it says we, the people, are allow to revolt and fight the current government if we deem them as going against our rights as civilians, both violently or nonviolently. So if a group of black revolutionaries are formed and start fighting back against police oppression by spilling blood, I won't stop them, its their right and the government has been against them for years. That's what the constitution allowed, and what gun rights advocates preach.
Equality never came, racism still exists. The reality is that it's still here but hidden, yet not so well hidden as the cracks are starting to show. Businesses can't discriminate who they employ, yet they can hire a less qualified white man over a more qualified black man in the background and no one is the wiser. Slavery was abolished, yet there's plenty of colored people doing slave labor while in prison for some stupid non-violent offence thanks to the War on Non-Whites, err, I mean Drugs. As for the police, I don't need to say more. Racism has always been institutionalized in this nation; in our schools, in our police, in our hospitals, and so on. It's subtle, but it's there, and plenty of people pick it up without knowing it. Hence why you have people, even those who are black and hispanic, saying that the system is fine, racism is gone, and it's their fault they are suffering, when in reality it's the opposite.
timetokill
Banned
Oh hey, I agree, I just wanted to be clear on what he was saying. I was getting mixed messages from his rant.
I think these people would probably be getting shot even without the second amendment, because a lot of them are dying unarmed. And dogs can't shoot guns but cops don't hesitate to shoot them either.
I think tying the second amendment into this issue kind of muddies the real issue of systematic racism and a lack of accountability in the police force. Even if we didn't have the second, cops would still have guns, and they'd still be killing people.
With that said, if people were to fight back violently, I don't know that I could blame them. I don't personally own a gun, but I think the argument could be made that they're rebelling against a government or justice system that doesn't protect or represent them.
I just wanted to be clear as to whether you were calling for a violent uprising or trying to use it to frame guns as the heart of the problem.
Aaronology
Member
You say this right below Grizzly's post. Hilarious.
Hey, maybe you should stop trying to speak for other posters. And maybe you should also stop insulting other people in this thread for taking offense to blanket insults on an entire country.
Angelus Errare
Banned
White people trying to convince themselves and others like them that THEY'RE the real victims in life and have it so hard.
Mammoth Jones
Member
***For Black people. White folks would be fighting by now if this shit was happening to them like this.
freeofgreed
Member
What is wrong with Grizzly's post? And I'm not insulting anyone, i'm just letting you know how you yourself are coming off.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Seems to me that in the interest of justice, it should have been brought to trial. The effort would have been appreciated, and even if the jurors weren't buying what the prosecution was selling we'd know there was real effort made. In this case, it seems the prosecution did the defense's job for them. Par for the course for the law as it pertains to us negroes.
should be required reading for the thread.
should be required reading for the thread.
Future PhaZe
Member
Making America great again should be changed to Making America great for once
theignoramus
Member
If America continues to plug its ears to peaceful black demands for justice I feel like more cities are going to start getting ransacked and burned.
I hope for their own sake, American institutions reform before the constituents they shit all over catch on to the fact that violence often is the sole thing that provokes much needed change.
I hope for their own sake, American institutions reform before the constituents they shit all over catch on to the fact that violence often is the sole thing that provokes much needed change.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Won't make any difference. Shit, to "mainstream" America it will continue to cement the notion that Black people are inherently violent.
Unfortunately there's a sizable portion of the American population that sees violence against Blacks nessisary to keep us in check. I'd like to argue that Black people should just focus on building our own communities up and stop as dependent on "mainstream" america's goods and services but we tried that once and they burnt it to the fucking ground out of jealously.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The police report claimed that they thought he was 20.
So either they knowingly blew away a minor and lied about it, or they knowingly violated his 2nd amendment rights (like John Crawford) and got away with it anyway.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Exactly. And let's not pretend the man who got shit up in a walmart for carrying a BB gun was a minor. He wasn't given ANY chance to lower the gun and drop it. They just ran up on him, bucked shots, no crime committed.
Truth is regardless of the law Black people are held to a different standard in America. If anyone denies that they're a blind and possibly bigoted asshole.
theignoramus
Member
I would argue that the Ferguson riots are responsible for the subsequent federal investigation and exposure of the racist culture of that whole police force.
It's a small but important victory.
Dreams-Visions
Member
As my 90+ year old grandfather reminded me, life isn't fair and doubly so for people of color. In 90+ years, he's never seen a lot of "fair". He's also not surprised.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It's not a victory at all to me. Federal investigation ain't changing shit. Nor did it really reveal anything that Black people haven't been saying for decades upon decades. They always just implement some token policy change that in reality changes nothing.
As my 90+ year old grandfather reminded me, life isn't fair and doubly so for people of color. In 90+ years, he's never seen a lot of "fair". He's also not surprised.
Yup. My grandfather said the same thing. But he also said it's kinda worse for us cause we are less self-reliant as he was back in the 50's and less trade schools for us.
He was able to put 7 kids through college off a trade skill. That shit ain't happening these days.
Now with a kid I ask myself what should I do? Teach my kid the truth and break their spirits with the notion that they live in a society where 'mainstream' America don't give a fuck about them? Or let them live in their happy bubble until life pops it for them with possibly fatal consequences?
Worth reading about...
The Innocence Project
70% of the hundreds of people that were proven wrongfully convicted were minorities. At least 4% of those on death row it is believed are innocent. In about 25 percent of DNA exoneration cases, innocent people were coerced or threatened into making incriminating statements or false confessions.
Meanwhile, the petition for Justice for Tamir Rice has nearly 100,000 signatures.
Justice for Tamir Rice
Reading the description on the petition is heart-breaking.
Sign it if you get the chance, people. And spread the word.
The Innocence Project
70% of the hundreds of people that were proven wrongfully convicted were minorities. At least 4% of those on death row it is believed are innocent. In about 25 percent of DNA exoneration cases, innocent people were coerced or threatened into making incriminating statements or false confessions.
Meanwhile, the petition for Justice for Tamir Rice has nearly 100,000 signatures.
Justice for Tamir Rice
Reading the description on the petition is heart-breaking.
Sign it if you get the chance, people. And spread the word.
Aaronology
Member
You're trying to speak for other people. Stop. As Grizzly's post makes it clear, there are people who are earnestly painting America with a broad brush in this thread. That people take offense to that is a personal issue you have, noted. But your opinion isn't ubiquitous.
I'm black, and American. Yet another grand jury farce pisses me off even if it isn't surprising. But I can also objectively say there aren't many other countries that, as a person of color, I would have rather been born in. Coming into this thread to discuss the topic and seeing hyperbolic posts from foreigners proclaiming my entire country a disgusting shit hole is an annoying distraction that only leads to silly conversations like the one we're having now.
Dreams-Visions
Member
for further reading and watching:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions/ - PBS documentary on forced false confessions. The ethnicity of those forced will surprise approximately nobody.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicago-the-false-confession-capital/ - Article on the same subject.
I strongly, STRONGLY recommend watching the PBS videos if/when you all have time.
theignoramus
Member
Umm, South Africa is probably the only other developed country historically worse for Blacks. I don't consider that something to be prideful about. America has many positive things to offer. It's treatment of its black citizens is a mark of shame and a blight upon itself.
I doubt black people in any other developed country, sans, South Africa, experience the incarceration statistics and police violence blacks in America put up with.
I for one, would much rather live as a black in Canada or Western Europe than America. They may hurl bananas at me in a football match but it's doubtful the cops would shoot me down like a feral animal over a misunderstanding.
Horrible (and all too familiar) story.
I think the problem isn't this grand jury in particular but the whole grand jury system. From the sounds of it the 'prosecutor' was basically acting as a defence attorney. If you look at the stats of how often grand juries convict for all cases and how often they do for police officers it's insane.
I think having the prosecutors make the decision on whether to press charges (and then justify why they did or didn't rather than just pass the decision off onto an anonymous grand jury which just does whatever they want anyway) is a much better system. There's no accountability for the prosecution with a grand jury.
I think the problem isn't this grand jury in particular but the whole grand jury system. From the sounds of it the 'prosecutor' was basically acting as a defence attorney. If you look at the stats of how often grand juries convict for all cases and how often they do for police officers it's insane.
I think having the prosecutors make the decision on whether to press charges (and then justify why they did or didn't rather than just pass the decision off onto an anonymous grand jury which just does whatever they want anyway) is a much better system. There's no accountability for the prosecution with a grand jury.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked