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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Building looks really bad.
Did you see the screenshots i posted on the last page? They look like textures painted on 2d objects. They look atrocious even by last gen standards. Play Division 2, Mafia remake and Watch Dogs legion and you will instantly see why buildings in those games feel like actual 3d models. I understand Spiderman is different from those games as it needs to fly by these buildings very fast but come on, that would be an excuse i would buy last gen. definitely not in a game that is using ssd as its selling point.
At least there's more cars and air conditioners. That's where the PS5 is pushed hard.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol those classic insomniac bullshots.
Expectation:
Reality:
If they had put this much effort improving their engine like they did touching up these bullshots, we might actually see better looking buildings.
Man I never ever take all these shills seriously. Geoff, and that other guy Shinobi along with a few others, everytime they say something I assume the opposite.lol those classic insomniac bullshots.
Expectation:
Reality:
If they had put this much effort improving their engine like they did touching up these bullshots, we might actually see better looking buildings.
Loxus
Member
Why are you cherry picking?lol those classic insomniac bullshots.
Expectation:
Reality:
If they had put this much effort improving their engine like they did touching up these bullshots, we might actually see better looking buildings.
Have you not watched the entire video?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its odd because at times there is proper light bounce on characters and buildings. The tweet that points out indirect lighting being way better in the sequel also shows that there have been improvements made to their GI system but it still looks flat at times and i can’t make sense of it. Are they using higher quality GI during takedowns where the cinematic camera kicks in and maybe adds hero lighting?
Say what you will about starfield but GI during mid day lighting has proper light bounce. Its why the game looks best in properly lit ship interiors because the GI is doing its job. Obviously as the daylight goes away their poor asset quality on planets and that massive downgrade to geometry of the terrain are exposed. Kinda like how Spidermans buildings look better in that dusk lighting condition compared to midday. That time of day is masking the imperfections.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Have you not seen my posts in the previous two pages? I’ve cherry picked half a dozen gifs to show the game looking at its best. I didn’t see you complaining when i was making gifs from cherrypicked sections that looked good.
lol I dont know why the look like that, but I told you not to create these giant 30 MB gifs. Thats three of them. Thats almost 100 MB. On the top of the page. going to make this whole page miserable to browse now.
trick with gifs is to keep it to one shot. its not a montage. its a gif. Also, for the gifcam, use Quantize from the dropdown when Saving the gif.
I recorded this gif with gifcam. Only 4MB, 16 fps, 774x556 size, and doesnt have the artifacts you see in yours. what monitor are you using? If you are on a 4k monitor or tv, be sure to switch to 1440p to reduce the size of the gifs.
I really like the mid day lighting here in 'some' shots. It doesnt always show, but I noticed a pretty significant leap over the harsh baked feel of the first game's mid day lighting. This has this really soft look to it at least when spiderman goes into his special moves. doesnt really pop in other shots in the trailer when hes swinging around, but its still a noticeable upgrade from the first game.
Here is the same time of day from Spiderman 1.
Here are some night time comparisons with the reveal trailer. Lighting looks better than it did in PS4 but i dont think they got close to that original reveal trailer. I do think had they added some hero lighting on enemies and spiderman during gameplay, it wouldve come a lot closer.
I think they add the hero lighting in some takedowns like you see in the mid day gifs above, but here its like eveyrone is in shadows which might be accurate but doesnt really look as good.
Spiderman PS4 vs PS5 vs Matrix vs Movie CG Comparison
Matrix comes the closest to matching the CG in the movie, but honestly, it's closer to the Matrix than I originally thought. The ray traced reflections and lighting are there but the asset quality of buildings hold it back.
Here i am discussing it looking its worse. And more importantly the downgrade from the touched up screenshots insomniac continues to release time and time again. Not sure why you feel compelled to defend this shady practice of bullshots, these awful building textures in a game touting ssds letting them load high res assets on the fly. The game looks its best in dusk time lighting but that was also true last Gen.
You do realize those shots aren't in the same place?lol those classic insomniac bullshots.
Expectation:
Reality:
If they had put this much effort improving their engine like they did touching up these bullshots, we might actually see better looking buildings.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Image quality of these GIFs are getting worse and worse the further we are into the generation.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
What am I not seeing with SM2 ?
It looks nothing like the early trailers. I don't get next gen vibes from it.
The traversal speed and loading is next gen but the shading model is kinda flat at time and idk... I kinda don't see it.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, it looks good but it's no more than what Ragnarok was to gow2018
It looks nothing like the early trailers. I don't get next gen vibes from it.
The traversal speed and loading is next gen but the shading model is kinda flat at time and idk... I kinda don't see it.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, it looks good but it's no more than what Ragnarok was to gow2018
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Audiophile
Member
I appreciate that assets are reused a lot, but those two buildings on the right have an identical texture on them that hasn't even been shifted for greater variety.
This was my takeaway as well.
Most of that trailer is cutscenes anyway whether there story scenes or cinematic takedowns. They know what there doing....focusing on there strengths all while motion blurring and CAing there shortcommings.
Its all about inviting our imaginations to fill in the gaps they occluding and getting us to project that A+ animation quality onto other areas where there clearly lacking. Shit works way too often and make threads like this a nightmare.
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GymWolf
Member
He didn’t realise you were being sarcastic lol.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol yeah, i sent my friend this screenshot and he noticed sent it back with those two buildings circled. Honestly I dont mind reusing of assets. Most of these residential buildings in NYC were designed to look the same though i suppose they couldve changed up the decay a little bit.
I appreciate that assets are reused a lot, but those two buildings on the right have an identical texture on them that hasn't even been shifted for greater variety.
I just want higher fidelity assets. If they have to borrow them from Epic's Quixel Megascans library then so be it. If NYC in this game will look like NYC in other games because they are all using the same Quixel assets then so be it. As long as it looks like NYC in real life.
Look at the screenshot Musilla posted then. Same issues with poor painted on textures. The asset quality of buildings is way higher in the bullshot.
For real. Absolute sellouts!Bunch of clowns
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Id like to see how cyberpunk dlc handles the day time lighting. Its another cross Gen game but using rtgi on PC and prebaked lighting on consoles like Spider-Man. I hope they let you fly some cars in the dlc just so we can see what it looks like from above.
The engine already handles night time lighting way better than Spider-Man but it will be interesting to make some mid day comparisons.
PeteBull
Member
Dont forget Demons Souls, especially with it 1440p60 mode, 4k30 even tho its much more pixels/second doesnt really make that big impression, most likely coz of those nasty 30fps.
Both Ratchet and Horizon FW and its dlc in 60fps look really good if we keep in mind its ps5 they running on, not pc rig with 4090 and 7800x3d
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The framerate warriors have absolutely fucked us all with their fucking 60fps bullshit.
Now performance modes will have ray tracing, meaning devs will push actual visual fidelity as little as possible.
My hype for Wolverine went straight into the gutter. It’ll look no better than spiderman 2.
Now performance modes will have ray tracing, meaning devs will push actual visual fidelity as little as possible.
My hype for Wolverine went straight into the gutter. It’ll look no better than spiderman 2.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Can’t always play a super serious game sometimes I need dumb fun. But dumb fun at this fidelity is EXTREMELY rare.
PeteBull
Member
Wonder if we gonna get loading screens every time we enter new "box" like in starfield or game gonna be more or less seamless xD
lol those classic insomniac bullshots.
Expectation:
Reality:
If they had put this much effort improving their engine like they did touching up these bullshots, we might actually see better looking buildings.
My God...
Why doesn't Insomniac get any shit for their bullshottery? This is Ubisoft levels of fakery.
The bottom image is brighter and has DOF applied. While not the exact same area,the building density looks about the same.lol yeah, i sent my friend this screenshot and he noticed sent it back with those two buildings circled. Honestly I dont mind reusing of assets. Most of these residential buildings in NYC were designed to look the same though i suppose they couldve changed up the decay a little bit.
I just want higher fidelity assets. If they have to borrow them from Epic's Quixel Megascans library then so be it. If NYC in this game will look like NYC in other games because they are all using the same Quixel assets then so be it. As long as it looks like NYC in real life.
Look at the screenshot Musilla posted then. Same issues with poor painted on textures. The asset quality of buildings is way higher in the bullshot.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
We are not talking about building density like it’s foliage. Of course the game has the same number of buildings lol
We are talking about the detail level on the buildings. Their textures. Models are all lacking.
Audiophile
Member
I think the issue with discourse around games like Spidey is that yes, generally the game is very impressive but there are some elements that when subpar stick out like a sore thumb relative to all those other high quality elements. Folks will come to defend it because it's mostly good and use that as an argument to try and nullify those more specific criticisms; as if there's any logic to that approach.
It's like having a nice big roast dinner and saying I loved everything on the plate except the carrots and then someone comes along to say, "well the rest of the dinner was great, therefore the carrots are great and your criticism of them is irrelevant". Which makes no sense of course.
There's also the generation argument. Most people criticising elements of the game are doing so from the perspective of this being exclusive to new hardware versus previous games being last/cross-gen, therefore expectations will be higher, and rightfully so. While most people praising it are coming from the perspective that it's very good looking in general and at least somewhat of an improvement over previous games; therefore any criticisms are mute.
I can concede that the game looks very good in general, that it is impressive overall. I can concede that it looks better than previous games in almost all parts. I can concede there are functional parts of the game that wouldn't be possible on previous generations. I can concede that this presentation is much better than the first one and has won me back over enough to likely pick it up.
What I can't concede is that there aren't some glaring flaws in the visuals that undermine the better elements. Elements that are surprising given the full move to the current gen only and the technical prowess of the team/s working on it and the budgets involved; and that being a current gen only title it's not quite blowing me away to the degree I'd hoped.
Whereas -- for the most part -- those staunchly praising it tend not to concede anything, the game looks good therefore it must not be criticised and that is that.
There are some really poor textures and some rudimentary geometry edges that can really rob the image. There is sometimes a lack of cohesion between assets that just looks, "off"... Some of the buildings especially, can look quite awful. I think they're just re-using higher LOD or touched up versions of many of the environmental assets from the first game/s; and have focused their time and effort on hero assets; and on the surrounding systems such as lighting etc. I hope that Spidey 3 onwards sees some new higher quality assets for these parts of the game/s.
Just take this shot from the new showcase for eg. plenty of nice stuff going on the shot itself and some good stuff proceeding it. Then you get that awfully flat, dull texture. Spidey isn't making any contact with the surface. And, once again the edge of the building is tack sharp and straight with no roughness, no embellishments. Just a plain straight line. These small things massively undermine the impact and believability of the overall image.
You see a similar thing with curbs and where buildings meet, perfect straight lines intersecting with no shading or shadowing. It makes things look rudimentary and robs the image of depth.
Hard edges rarely look good.
It's like having a nice big roast dinner and saying I loved everything on the plate except the carrots and then someone comes along to say, "well the rest of the dinner was great, therefore the carrots are great and your criticism of them is irrelevant". Which makes no sense of course.
There's also the generation argument. Most people criticising elements of the game are doing so from the perspective of this being exclusive to new hardware versus previous games being last/cross-gen, therefore expectations will be higher, and rightfully so. While most people praising it are coming from the perspective that it's very good looking in general and at least somewhat of an improvement over previous games; therefore any criticisms are mute.
I can concede that the game looks very good in general, that it is impressive overall. I can concede that it looks better than previous games in almost all parts. I can concede there are functional parts of the game that wouldn't be possible on previous generations. I can concede that this presentation is much better than the first one and has won me back over enough to likely pick it up.
What I can't concede is that there aren't some glaring flaws in the visuals that undermine the better elements. Elements that are surprising given the full move to the current gen only and the technical prowess of the team/s working on it and the budgets involved; and that being a current gen only title it's not quite blowing me away to the degree I'd hoped.
Whereas -- for the most part -- those staunchly praising it tend not to concede anything, the game looks good therefore it must not be criticised and that is that.
There are some really poor textures and some rudimentary geometry edges that can really rob the image. There is sometimes a lack of cohesion between assets that just looks, "off"... Some of the buildings especially, can look quite awful. I think they're just re-using higher LOD or touched up versions of many of the environmental assets from the first game/s; and have focused their time and effort on hero assets; and on the surrounding systems such as lighting etc. I hope that Spidey 3 onwards sees some new higher quality assets for these parts of the game/s.
Just take this shot from the new showcase for eg. plenty of nice stuff going on the shot itself and some good stuff proceeding it. Then you get that awfully flat, dull texture. Spidey isn't making any contact with the surface. And, once again the edge of the building is tack sharp and straight with no roughness, no embellishments. Just a plain straight line. These small things massively undermine the impact and believability of the overall image.
You see a similar thing with curbs and where buildings meet, perfect straight lines intersecting with no shading or shadowing. It makes things look rudimentary and robs the image of depth.
Hard edges rarely look good.
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PeteBull
Member
the matrix demo is a demo that dips below 20fps when there is tons of action, if actual game launches with that fps its gonna get fried in reviews
All of u guys are techsavy ppl but somehow many ppl forget what those consoles got under the hood, both xsx and ps5 are by now midrange pc equivalent and its not even full 3 years from their launch.
If u got rt and 60fps in the game then ofc graphical fidelity jump vs ps4 will be relatively tiny coz u simply got barely or no oomph left for anything else vs 1080p30 ps4's Spiderman, GoW or TLoU2.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Y91QVG8/?tag=neogaf0e-20 this gpu is stronger from both xsx and ps5 gpu's in any circumstances.
Same with this cpu, its even bigger gap vs cpu's in next gen consoles https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1695216-REG/amd_100_100000926wof_ryzen_7_5700x_3_4.html
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PeteBull
Member
there was one early trailer, reveal trailer, and it was cgi/bullshot simply, so ofc actual gameplay will never even come close, it never does
This might give you an idea of what your asking for, there are vids with flying car mods but the ones i know about are still using the old RT mode.
Masterofchapter
Banned
Lol the entire newyork looks worse than division 2
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Didnt see any bans myself, but saw this poor bastard get crucified for saying the most obvious thing and left him a pity like lmaoLol some people are getting banned in the Spidey 2 preview thread cuz they voiced their displeasure with the game. God bless this thread and the users/posters in it, even the ones I disagree with (looking at youChiefDada
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol the lighting here looks really flat too. I think this video shows why im always so meh on Cyberpunk.
I was able to get it running at a locked 30 fps by simply reducing the traffic density and parked cars by half. I think the game is more CPU bound as you start traversing through the cars really fast. During the chase sequence the fps was more or less a locked 30 fps. i think alex found that it was 29.4 or something like that on average on both consoles. it's the fast traversal with many cars and the collisions that were causing the drops. And thats mostly because nanite did not support collisions/destruction back then.
But yeah, 60 fps with RT was always going to produce dated visuals but no one asked them to try and release a 60 fps game. Starfield was released at 30 fps on the xsx instead of trying to downgrade visuals even further to hit 60 fps. If Sony studios want to continue disappointing us then I guess 60 fps rt games are the way to go.
Yeah, Division 2 has some stunning modeling on the buildings. They look 3d in ways spiderman buildings just dont.
That said, in spiderman's defense, division doesnt have to stream in its buildigns really fast. Maybe insomniac needs these buildings to be low poly so they can have spiderman zoom past them in flying speeds thus reducing their overall geometry. of course, i wouldve taken that excuse last gen, but nanite wouldve solved that problem.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
We have mentioned it here already a couple of times when they released the trailers and previews.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is an excellent post overall, but I wanted to highlight this part because it nails why discussion around exclusives like starfield and spiderman have become so toxic. There is nothing wrong with admitting the game looks underwhelming at times. Nothing wrong with admitting that the game received a downgrade. just like there is nothing wrong with saying it looks great at times, but the constant downplaying of any criticism gets irksome really fast, and completely derails any discussion.
I have no problems admitting that Avatar was downgraded from the original reveal. I had no problems calling out Starfield for a massive downgrade in planet surface visuals. I had no problems saying HFW is the best looking ever made, and still calling out its lighting, LOD, and draw distance flaws. And yet, I only ever get pushback when I criticize HFW. Despite consistently ranking it first place in any of the million threads we get about the best looking games this gen. It's like there is no room for nuanced discussion.
And because you have Geoff keighley calling it the best superhero game ever, and IGN singing its praises as a true next gen exclusive, and everyone on forums drowning out any criticism, the devs will never hear any negative feedback and we will continue the cycle of faux next gen games that look like cross gen games.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I don't know if you know but real life has also flat lighting sometimes. Not every tod/weather setting gonna look like the perfectly timed shot.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, but thats why we dont like Marvel movies with made for TV cinematography because when we pay the big bucks to go see a movie, we want it to have better cinematography than our boring wretched lives.I don't know if you know but real life has also flat lighting sometimes. Not every tod/weather setting gonna look like the perfectly timed shot.
I actually think Cyberpunk has way better lighting than Spiderman but just their city design layout keeps almost the entire city in shadows at all times which is obviously not the best way to showcase your graphics.
Um? It would make more sense to compare the same area because different buildings should look different in different parts of a city.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Thats something that everybody knows lol, even Insomniac will tell you that. The lighting in overdrive mode is the most advanced lighting model we currently have out of any game.
Even then you will notice the superior lighting to any other game. And its a big city with lots of tall buildings, areas in shadows is expected like in the real world. And there are areas where the building are much much smaller, Its not always in the shadows. And the demo you praised the most (Matrix UE5) has the same tall buildings.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You are saying this after what we've seen the last couple of days?
Yeah, but matrix here looks way better than cyberpunk despite the shadows. hence, me being meh on cyberpunk whenever you guys bring it up.Even then you will notice the superior lighting to any other game. And its a big city with lots of tall buildings, areas in shadows is expected like in the real world. And there are areas where the building are much much smaller, Its not always in the shadows. And the demo you praised the most (Matrix UE5) has the same tall buildings.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Bruh wtf is that screencapture lol, atleast post some decent direct captures.You are saying this after what we've seen the last couple of days?
Yeah, but matrix here looks way better than cyberpunk despite the shadows. hence, me being meh on cyberpunk whenever you guys bring it up.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its from the cyberpunk video linked above lmao. Its not a Matrix shot. I posted it as a comparison to YOUR matrix shot.Bruh wtf is that screencapture lol, atleast post some decent direct captures.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Saw this video of starfield's outdoor areas the other day. Looks absolutely stunning in some spots, pretty meh in others. Especially the foliage areas. But that lighting when it works is just stunning.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
That guy is using 100s of mods, one of them is the Natural Californian Lightning Mod. Look what that mod does to the lighting.
The vanilla is the non path traced lighting btw.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lets see how much they improve the lighting in the new release. i wonder if they are going to relight the original game.That guy is using 100s of mods, one of them is the Natural Californian Lightning Mod. Look what that mod does to the lighting.
The vanilla is the non path traced lighting btw.
cant wait to download it for the 10th time and still not finish it.
Self_Destructive
Member
I half assed tried to recreate a similar shot in Spider-Man Remastered on PC.. it's clear there's material and lighting upgrades and that the city density is improved.
The lighting and ambient occlusion definitely make things look more grounded in the sequel for sure.
The lighting and ambient occlusion definitely make things look more grounded in the sequel for sure.
Bruh wtf is that screencapture lol, atleast post some decent direct captures.
The 2nd and 3rd shots are insane.
God I wish we could achieve that kind of visual fidelity in this gen...
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
The top one is the pc version maxed out with some little touches. Insomniacs bullshots are always enhanced but your pc shot of Spiderman 1 Remastered gives me hope for the pc version whenver it releases.I half assed tried to recreate a similar shot in Spider-Man Remastered on PC.. it's clear there's material and lighting upgrades and that the city density is improved.
The lighting and ambient occlusion definitely make things look more grounded in the sequel for sure.