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[staticshock]

You do know sometimes consoles out do PC in certain aspects ( PS5 SSD, PS3 Cell processor, Xbox 360 Xenos, etc) and the best looking games are on consoles ( ignoring graphics settings) no real time playable games look better than The Matrix Awakens, TLOU II, HFW, Ratchet and Clank Rift apart, spiderman MM on PC… PC is pretty much 3rd party games at max settings, no real exclusives take advantage of RTX 3090 or we would have the best visuals available on PC…consoles are more efficient with closed architecture and API…

This is 1.8 TFLOPS… (running on PS5 60 fps patch)

Will never understand the wild obsession with the graphics in spiderman. Outside of the character rendering which is good but not ground-breaking.
The actual environment rendering doesn't hold a candle to the The Division 1. They are both games in snow so we can compare them.
If you watch all 12 mins of footage below in 4k.

The snow in MM is very basic in comparison.

TLoU2 looks that good because it's made by Naughty Dog one of the most talented studio out there, with Sony putting a lot of money into the game. Lost Legacy was pretty open and looked great and even TLoU2 has plenty of large areas that look great, let's be real here.

The Matrix demo is not a game, where are all the Unreal 5 games that look like that? Turns out you still have to make the games and tech alone won't do that much.

Epic probably spent an unholy amount of money on that engine to that point but it's not like all the other devs that work with other engines were sitting still. How much will Unreal 5 have to accelerate development for it to impact games that we'll be seeing any time soon?

naughty dog is very overrated around these parts. They are only great in two things, character rendering and animation. That's it. There's alot more to a game than just character rendering and animation. Everything else they are subpar at.

Even the most intensive part of game rendering (alpha effects particles in particular). Naughty dogs sparingly uses it in their games. While in alot of games, for example in control. Having 10 massive explosions and dozens of particle effect going on at the same time and for minutes straight is regular normal gameplay. While in naughty dog game, you might experience an encounter that includes the use of an explosion or usage of particle effects once every 15-30 mins and then its usually singular?

Some games its literally every second.

Lastly, What you think is open isn't really open, its just clever loading. The game loads the next scene when you are going through a house or a alley, or anywhere with blocked FOV. For example in god of war its done not so cleverly which is when you are climbing.

All this become apparent if you look at the free cam. Then you see all the tricks that are being employed.
Tricks you won't be able to get away with in an actual open world game.

So no its not the "Amazing naughty god". Its simply the type/kind of game they are making.

 

[nominedomine]

Will never understand the wild obsession with the graphics in spiderman. Outside of the character rendering which is good but not ground-breaking.
The actual environment rendering doesn't hold a candle to the The Division 1. They are both games in snow so we can compare them.
If you watch all 12 mins of footage below in 4k.

The snow in MM is very basic in comparison.


naughty dog is very overrated around these parts. They are only great in two things, character rendering and animation. That's it. There's alot more to a game than just character rendering and animation. Everything else they are subpar at.

Even the most intensive part of game rendering (alpha effects particles in particular). Naughty dogs sparingly uses it in their games. While in alot of games, for example in control. Having 10 massive explosions and dozens of particle effect going on at the same time and for minutes straight is regular normal gameplay. While in naughty dog game, you might experience an encounter that includes the use of an explosion or usage of particle effects once every 15-30 mins and then its usually singular?

Some games its literally every second.

Lastly, What you think is open isn't really open, its just clever loading. The game loads the next scene when you are going through a house or a alley, or anywhere with blocked FOV. For example in god of war its done not so cleverly which is when you are climbing.

All this become apparent if you look at the free cam. Then you see all the tricks that are being employed.
Tricks you won't be able to get away with in an actual open world game.

So no its not the "Amazing naughty god". Its simply the type/kind of game they are making.

You are just making my point, the tech itself doesn't matter what matters is how well a studio utilizes it, what you call "tricks" I call "talent", they aren't making games for a PC targeting an RTX 3060, their last game was made to run on a PS4.

You are going to have a hard time convincing me Naughty Dog isn't one of the most technically competent studios around. Yes, they put a lot of effort on animation and character rendering and it has worked great so far for the type of games they make.

Games don't have to be open world to be visually impressive. The final results speak for themselves, I see no point in trying to sell ND short.

 

[Vick]

naughty dog is very overrated around these parts. They are only great in two things, character rendering and animation. That's it. There's alot more to a game than just character rendering and animation. Everything else they are subpar at.

What an absolutely ignorant statement. They always had exceptional, out of the ordinary suble tech in their games ever since the first Uncharted. Their GI lighting tech for instance:








Started on PS3 with The Last of Us, unparalleled until ray tracing came along.
The first Uncharted had the best water ever seen at the time, along with first wet shaders and most insanely high resolution textures on the platform. Uncharted 2 the best per object motion blur, SSS and AO. Uncharted 3 the best cloth physics, volumetric lighting, the most technically complex level ever made at the time (sinking ship in real time on a fully procedural ocean), best fire and sand tech. Uncharted 4 the very best IQ seen on a console when it came out, some of the best physics display.. etc.

 

[Toots]

"The first few pages" Yeah read more kid.

Calm down son.
What kind of white privileged hetero are you to speak like this to my wife boyfriend’s child ? Go back to the alt right craphole you squirmed out of you gun toting redneck.

(Your thread is cool, but you sound so condescending i cannot believe you’re coming from a place as down to earth and welcoming as resetera or can i ? You little canaillou )

Edit : what i would to see this gen is ue5 tech demo level of gfx or project athia first gameplay reveal, but what i expect is 30 fps forspoken :/ )

 

[staticshock]

What an absolutely ignorant statement. They always had exceptional, out of the ordinary suble tech in their games ever since the first Uncharted. Their GI lighting tech for instance:

Exceptional and out of the ordinary? You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking. You need to actually start taking a look at what tech resides in other games.

Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE small light source versus games who use dynamic GI on ALL source lights and on the whole game world from a directional light acting as the sun.

You literally calling GI on 1 source light exceptional and out of the ordinary. While there are games that use it on ALL.
That's how out of touch you are here. Not just that, there's loads of other technical marvel not only in dynamic lighting like in RDR2, Quantum Break, Control, The Division, etc. But real-time volumetric clouds rather than a 2d texture skybox, 24h TOD, dynamic volumetric fog, volumetric lighting, programmable particles, etc.

Started on PS3 with The Last of Us, unparalleled until ray tracing came along.

Unparalled? dude what in the world are you talking about?
I can name a dozen and more games with better dynamic lighting tech. Naughty Dogs DGI is very subpar.
That's like saying someone who scored 2 points in an NBA game is unparalleled, exceptional and out of the ordinary.

When there are others dropping 60. Don't let your love for Sony Games cloud your judgement.

The first Uncharted had the best water ever seen at the time, along with first wet shaders and most insanely high resolution textures on the platform. Uncharted 2 the best per object motion blur, SSS and AO. Uncharted 3 the best cloth physics, volumetric lighting, the most technically complex level ever made at the time (sinking ship in real time on a fully procedural ocean), best fire and sand tech. Uncharted 4 the very best IQ seen on a console when it came out, some of the best physics display.. etc.

Literally none of this is true. Literally!

You all are doing is assigning "Best" with everything when they are arguably one of the worst.
Just like I proved with the dynamic lighting tech

the most technically complex level ever made at the time (sinking ship in real time on a fully procedural ocean)

Lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You should stay out of the technical threads.

 

[Vick]

Shouldn't really waste a single minute with such a subject, but still.

Exceptional and out of the ordinary? You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking. You need to dig your head from wherever it is and actually start taking a look at what tech resides in other games.

Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE source light versus games who use dynamic GI on ALL source light and on the whole game world from a directional light acting as the sun.

You literally calling GI on 1 source light exceptional and out of the ordinary. While there are games that use it on ALL.
That's how out of touch you are here. Not just that, there's loads of other technical marvel not only in dynamic lighting like in RDR2, Quantum Break, Control, The Division, etc. But real-time volumetric clouds, 24h TOD, dynamic volumetric fog, programmable particles, etc.

Yeah.. aside from the many inaccuracies in the post and the apparent incapability to distinguish pre-baked GI from real-time GI.. The Last of Us released on PS3 in 2013. Uncharted 4 in 2016. Where are games doing dynamic GI on Consoles during those years looking even close to that?

Literally none of this is true. Literally!

You all are doing is assigning "Best" with everything when they are arguably one of the worst.
Just like I proved with the dynamic lighting tech

What a moron you are.

Drake's Fortune Water:




Name a single game having wet shaders on characters clothing before Drake's Fortune.

Name a game from 2009 or before using per object motion blur, SSS and SSAO on Consoles. Digital Foundry on Uncharted 2:

"Uncharted 2 was the game that changed everything, redefining the third-person genre, setting new standards in technology"

Name a Console game from 2011 with volumetric lighting better than Uncharted 3.

Uncharted 3 fire tech:

Uncharted 3 to push the envelope with fire effects

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception is set to continue Naughty Dog's tradition of graphical achievement by featuring procedu…

www.vg247.com

Uncharted 3 ship level (time-stamped):

18 Mind-Blowing Facts You Never Knew About The Uncharted Series

'Sic Parvis Magna' doesn't mean what you think it means...

whatculture.com

"The cruise ship sequence in Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception, which has Drake make his way through a cruise ship as it lurches amidst a storm, is one of the greatest technological accomplishments of the entire series. Not only is it visually spectacular, but the use of water based physics still remains as impressive today as it was almost five years ago.

Naughty Dog went out of their way to make it feel as real as possible by building an ocean simulation. Instead of remaining on an animation loop, the movement of the ship is dictated by its interaction with the surrounding water in real time, swaying back and forth as the waves push against the hull. This affects objects within the ship, including Drake, who intuitively adjusts his balance based on the ship's movement and position at a given time.
This constantly fluctuating environment forces you to adapt depending on the circumstances, and it all comes together to craft an amazing action sequence that stands out as one of the best of the series, which is saying a lot."

Digital Foundry on it:

"You may have seen the cruise ship level. What people may not realise is that it's not just a big object that we are animating, it's one enormous physics object whose movement is driven by another dynamic system we have in the game: our new dynamic sea system. So each time that Drake rocks around on the deck of that ship the movement he is subject to is unique."

"It's not just the look of the effects, it's their application in terms of gameplay. The cruise ship is the highlight of the water technology: the animation of the ship itself within the ocean, plus the rushing water of the breached hull, even the water in the swimming pool is sublimely animated. However, preceding this stage are areas of gameplay where Drake is in direct contact with the ocean, where the height of the water-line itself can be of crucial importance in deciding where to go next, what to do, and whether a stealthy approach is viable or not.

Fire is the most destructive of the elements and it is here that Naughty Dog does some of its best work, marrying the uncanny effect with some excellent use of the destruction system that sees scenery collapse, breaking into component pieces and literally razing the impressive Chateau level to the ground."




Uncharted 3 sand:




Digital Foundry on U3 sand:

"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 3:

"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 4 IQ:

• Image quality: Uncharted 4 delivers the best image quality we've seen in a console game to date. Even in the face of rare titles like Tearaway Unfolded, with its high quality MSAA settings, Uncharted 4 stands tall. Naughty Dog has developed a temporal anti-aliasing technique that delivers results that sometimes manage to approach the quality of a super-sampled image. Thin edges are remarkably clean, shader aliasing is almost non-existent, and shimmering is all but eliminated. Large, complex fields of detailed foliage remain razor sharp even at a distance while finer details on Nate's weapons remain clearly visible. We noted similarities to the hybrid-reconstruction anti-aliasing used in Far Cry 4 but we cannot say for sure how this was achieved. Perhaps Naughty Dog will share more information on this in the future, as the results are stunning and this technique could benefit console games as a whole.

Lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You should stay out of the technical threads.

Ironic isn't it? Now please take your own advice and kindly fuck off.

 

[PropellerEar]

Shouldn't really waste a single minute with such a subject, but still.


Yeah.. aside from the many inaccuracies in the post and the apparent incapability to distinguish pre-baked GI from real-time GI.. The Last of Us released on PS3 in 2013. Uncharted 4 in 2016. Where are games doing dynamic GI on Consoles during those years looking even close to that?


What a moron you are.

Drake's Fortune Water:




Name a single game having wet shaders on characters clothing before Drake's Fortune.

Name a game from 2009 or before using per object motion blur, SSS and SSAO on Consoles. Digital Foundry on Uncharted 2:

"Uncharted 2 was the game that changed everything, redefining the third-person genre, setting new standards in technology"

Name a Console game from 2011 with volumetric lighting better than Uncharted 3.

Uncharted 3 fire tech:

Uncharted 3 to push the envelope with fire effects

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception is set to continue Naughty Dog's tradition of graphical achievement by featuring procedu…

www.vg247.com

Uncharted 3 ship level (time-stamped):

18 Mind-Blowing Facts You Never Knew About The Uncharted Series

'Sic Parvis Magna' doesn't mean what you think it means...

whatculture.com

"The cruise ship sequence in Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception, which has Drake make his way through a cruise ship as it lurches amidst a storm, is one of the greatest technological accomplishments of the entire series. Not only is it visually spectacular, but the use of water based physics still remains as impressive today as it was almost five years ago.

Naughty Dog went out of their way to make it feel as real as possible by building an ocean simulation. Instead of remaining on an animation loop, the movement of the ship is dictated by its interaction with the surrounding water in real time, swaying back and forth as the waves push against the hull. This affects objects within the ship, including Drake, who intuitively adjusts his balance based on the ship's movement and position at a given time.
This constantly fluctuating environment forces you to adapt depending on the circumstances, and it all comes together to craft an amazing action sequence that stands out as one of the best of the series, which is saying a lot."

Digital Foundry on it:

"You may have seen the cruise ship level. What people may not realise is that it's not just a big object that we are animating, it's one enormous physics object whose movement is driven by another dynamic system we have in the game: our new dynamic sea system. So each time that Drake rocks around on the deck of that ship the movement he is subject to is unique."

"It's not just the look of the effects, it's their application in terms of gameplay. The cruise ship is the highlight of the water technology: the animation of the ship itself within the ocean, plus the rushing water of the breached hull, even the water in the swimming pool is sublimely animated. However, preceding this stage are areas of gameplay where Drake is in direct contact with the ocean, where the height of the water-line itself can be of crucial importance in deciding where to go next, what to do, and whether a stealthy approach is viable or not.

Fire is the most destructive of the elements and it is here that Naughty Dog does some of its best work, marrying the uncanny effect with some excellent use of the destruction system that sees scenery collapse, breaking into component pieces and literally razing the impressive Chateau level to the ground."




Uncharted 3 sand:




Digital Foundry on U3 sand:

"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 3:

"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 4 IQ:

• Image quality: Uncharted 4 delivers the best image quality we've seen in a console game to date. Even in the face of rare titles like Tearaway Unfolded, with its high quality MSAA settings, Uncharted 4 stands tall. Naughty Dog has developed a temporal anti-aliasing technique that delivers results that sometimes manage to approach the quality of a super-sampled image. Thin edges are remarkably clean, shader aliasing is almost non-existent, and shimmering is all but eliminated. Large, complex fields of detailed foliage remain razor sharp even at a distance while finer details on Nate's weapons remain clearly visible. We noted similarities to the hybrid-reconstruction anti-aliasing used in Far Cry 4 but we cannot say for sure how this was achieved. Perhaps Naughty Dog will share more information on this in the future, as the results are stunning and this technique could benefit console games as a whole.

Ironic isn't it? Now please take your own advice and kindly fuck off.

 

[staticshock]

Shouldn't really waste a single minute with such a subject, but still.


Yeah.. aside from the many inaccuracies in the post and the apparent incapability to distinguish pre-baked GI from real-time GI.. The Last of Us released on PS3 in 2013. Uncharted 4 in 2016. Where are games doing dynamic GI on Consoles during those years looking even close to that?

OMG you have no idea what you are talking about.
IT is YOU who clearly have no idea what's baked GI and what real-time GI is.

There are zero in-accuracies in any of my post. You just don't understand them.
First of all you have no idea how games work. This would be like me trying to explain to you C++, c# functions (I'm a software engineer)

The last of us 1 and 2 and uncharted 4 used baked light-mass and static probe lighting for dynamic objects.

To understand this, you need to understand how games are created.
Developers use different type of light sources: point light, spot light, area light, skylight and directional light. The former being cheaper than the later.
These lights can either be static, stationary or dynamic. The former being cheaper than the later.

Games typically have hundreds/thousands of light sources.
If your game was going to be static like TLOU and Uncharted. You would use a static directional light that doesn't move (which you bake to a texture) and then a static skylight which values doesn't change (which you also bake to a texture).

Then static point light, spot light and area light around the world which you also bake to a texture.

This is what TLOU and Uncharted is doing.
The only dynamic light source in TLOU 2 is your flashlight and the flame lights.
This is similar in Uncharted 4.

No Day/Night cycle, no destroying a street light with dynamic spot light and then the alley way going dark.
This is the different between a static GI game TLOU/Uncharted versus a dynamic GI game (quantum break, control, the division, RDR 2, etc)

Infact TLOU 2 used very little lighting from lights source other than the lightmass of the sky light.
For dynamic objects (for example characters) TLOU 2 used static probe lighting. Which is why they look so out of place.

In comparison a game like The Division released in 2016 used dynamic radiance transfer probe all over the world.
The entire world were lit with dynamic light source that you can destroy. Starting with the skylight and Directional light which is the most expensive because they lit the entire world and not a small radius like point lights, area lights and spot lights.

Then the point lights, area lights and spot lights scatter all over the city. Now do you understand the statement? "Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE small light source versus games who use dynamic GI on ALL source lights and on the whole game world from a directional light acting as the sun. You literally calling GI on 1 source light exceptional and out of the ordinary. While there are games that use it on ALL."

Another one is quantum break released in 2016 Time: 2m50s


I could keep going...but its pointless

What a moron you are.

Drake's Fortune Water:




Name a single game having wet shaders on characters clothing before Drake's Fortune.

Name a game from 2009 or before using per object motion blur, SSS and SSAO on Consoles. Digital Foundry on Uncharted 2:

"Uncharted 2 was the game that changed everything, redefining the third-person genre, setting new standards in technology"

Name a Console game from 2011 with volumetric lighting better than Uncharted 3.

Uncharted 3 fire tech:

Uncharted 3 to push the envelope with fire effects

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception is set to continue Naughty Dog's tradition of graphical achievement by featuring procedu…

www.vg247.com

Uncharted 3 ship level (time-stamped):

18 Mind-Blowing Facts You Never Knew About The Uncharted Series

'Sic Parvis Magna' doesn't mean what you think it means...

whatculture.com

"The cruise ship sequence in Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception, which has Drake make his way through a cruise ship as it lurches amidst a storm, is one of the greatest technological accomplishments of the entire series. Not only is it visually spectacular, but the use of water based physics still remains as impressive today as it was almost five years ago.

Naughty Dog went out of their way to make it feel as real as possible by building an ocean simulation. Instead of remaining on an animation loop, the movement of the ship is dictated by its interaction with the surrounding water in real time, swaying back and forth as the waves push against the hull. This affects objects within the ship, including Drake, who intuitively adjusts his balance based on the ship's movement and position at a given time.
This constantly fluctuating environment forces you to adapt depending on the circumstances, and it all comes together to craft an amazing action sequence that stands out as one of the best of the series, which is saying a lot."

Digital Foundry on it:

"You may have seen the cruise ship level. What people may not realise is that it's not just a big object that we are animating, it's one enormous physics object whose movement is driven by another dynamic system we have in the game: our new dynamic sea system. So each time that Drake rocks around on the deck of that ship the movement he is subject to is unique."

"It's not just the look of the effects, it's their application in terms of gameplay. The cruise ship is the highlight of the water technology: the animation of the ship itself within the ocean, plus the rushing water of the breached hull, even the water in the swimming pool is sublimely animated. However, preceding this stage are areas of gameplay where Drake is in direct contact with the ocean, where the height of the water-line itself can be of crucial importance in deciding where to go next, what to do, and whether a stealthy approach is viable or not.

Fire is the most destructive of the elements and it is here that Naughty Dog does some of its best work, marrying the uncanny effect with some excellent use of the destruction system that sees scenery collapse, breaking into component pieces and literally razing the impressive Chateau level to the ground."




Uncharted 3 sand:




Digital Foundry on U3 sand:

"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 3:

"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 4 IQ:

• Image quality: Uncharted 4 delivers the best image quality we've seen in a console game to date. Even in the face of rare titles like Tearaway Unfolded, with its high quality MSAA settings, Uncharted 4 stands tall. Naughty Dog has developed a temporal anti-aliasing technique that delivers results that sometimes manage to approach the quality of a super-sampled image. Thin edges are remarkably clean, shader aliasing is almost non-existent, and shimmering is all but eliminated. Large, complex fields of detailed foliage remain razor sharp even at a distance while finer details on Nate's weapons remain clearly visible. We noted similarities to the hybrid-reconstruction anti-aliasing used in Far Cry 4 but we cannot say for sure how this was achieved. Perhaps Naughty Dog will share more information on this in the future, as the results are stunning and this technique could benefit console games as a whole.

Ironic isn't it? Now please take your own advice and kindly fuck off.

You are literally just quoting words. Like wtf. Educate yourself. Actually learn what the technique and technology they are using so you can actually comprehend what it is and compare it.

The other stuff is pure nonsense and demonstrate your absolute ignorance of how games are made and its actually pointless for me to respond to.

Like you calling a basic ocean shader and simulation that existed in other games (assassin creed, etc) at the time whose parameters is being fed to a physics ship (this is called buoyancy) as "the most technically complex level ever made".

You are literally calling buoyancy, the most technically complex level ever made. Talk about Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Vick]

OMG you have no idea what you are talking about.
IT is YOU who clearly have no idea what's baked GI and what real-time GI is.

There are zero in-accuracies in any of my post. You just don't understand them.

Inaccuracy #1:

"Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE source light"

There are multple dynamic GI light sources in Uncharted 4 and TLoUII, up to three at the same time. And not relegated to flashlights, but any kind of interior light sources from fire torches, flares and whatnot.

Inaccuracy #2:

"Not just that, there's loads of other technical marvel not only in dynamic lighting like in RDR2"

RDR2 (version 1.00) is the most impressive technical display i've ever seen, but it does not utilize dynamic GI. All of it is baked, a similar (and improved) solution Horizon: Zero Dawn used.

Graphics Study: Red Dead Redemption 2 :: Dear World,

One of my favorite games of all time, Red Dead Redemption returned with a prequel for consoles in 2018. Then it came for PCs in 2019. I finally managed to play the game and amazed by its graphics immediately. But I got upset because I can barely play the game on medium settings at 25 FPS with a...

imgeself.github.io

First of all you have no idea how games work. This would be like me trying to explain to you C++, c# functions (I'm a software engineer)

I can only imagine the state of the company hiring someone who writes like an edgy teenager on a meltdown.

The last of us 1 and 2 and uncharted 4 used baked light-mass and static probe lighting for dynamic objects.

To understand this, you need to understand how games are created.
Developers use different type of light sources: point light, spot light, area light, skylight and directional light. The former being cheaper than the later.
These lights can either be static, stationary or dynamic. The former being cheaper than the later.

Games typically have hundreds/thousands of light sources.
If your game was going to be static like TLOU and Uncharted. You would use a static directional light that doesn't move (which you bake to a texture) and then a static skylight which values doesn't change (which you also bake to a texture).

Then static point light, spot light and area light around the world which you also bake to a texture.

This is what TLOU and Uncharted is doing.
The only dynamic light source in TLOU 2 is your flashlight and the flame lights.
This is similar in Uncharted 4.

Exaclty. And?
What would be the point of having exterior dynamic GI in a super linear story-driven game? The game requires time of day to be set in stone, and ND clearly aims to achieve the best possible quality at all times, impossible when having exterior dynamic GI on top of their rendering pipeline.
When dynamic lights are required they had a custom solution for it, far more advanced compared to other third person games from the time.

But go ahead and keep saying there's nothing out of the ordinary in having dynamic GI on a PS3 game.

For dynamic objects (for example characters) TLOU 2 used static probe lighting. Which is why they look so out of place.

Yeah, sure (time-stamped):

You are literally just quoting words. Like wtf. Educate yourself.
The other stuff is pure nonsense and demonstrate your absolute ignorance of how games are made and its actually pointless for me to respond to.

You said nothing of what i stated is true. I just proved it is. Unless you think this retarded opinion:

naughty dog is very overrated around these parts. They are only great in two things, character rendering and animation. That's it. There's alot more to a game than just character rendering and animation. Everything else they are subpar at.

Outweighs those of professionals or Tech outlets.

Like you calling a basic ocean shader and simulation that existed in other games (assassin creed, etc) at the time whose parameters is being fed to a physics ship (this is called buoyancy) as "the most technically complex level ever made".

You are literally calling buoyancy, the most technically complex level ever made. Talk about Ignorance is bliss.

Yeah, ignorance is bliss. So please never open the actual videos i posted on the matter to understand what really is going on a technical base in that level.

 

[rofif]

Exceptional and out of the ordinary? You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking. You need to actually start taking a look at what tech resides in other games.

Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE small light source versus games who use dynamic GI on ALL source lights and on the whole game world from a directional light acting as the sun.

You literally calling GI on 1 source light exceptional and out of the ordinary. While there are games that use it on ALL.
That's how out of touch you are here. Not just that, there's loads of other technical marvel not only in dynamic lighting like in RDR2, Quantum Break, Control, The Division, etc. But real-time volumetric clouds rather than a 2d texture skybox, 24h TOD, dynamic volumetric fog, volumetric lighting, programmable particles, etc.


Unparalled? dude what in the world are you talking about?
I can name a dozen and more games with better dynamic lighting tech. Naughty Dogs DGI is very subpar.
That's like saying someone who scored 2 points in an NBA game is unparalleled, exceptional and out of the ordinary.

When there are others dropping 60. Don't let your love for Sony Games cloud your judgement.


Literally none of this is true. Literally!

You all are doing is assigning "Best" with everything when they are arguably one of the worst.
Just like I proved with the dynamic lighting tech


Lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You should stay out of the technical threads.

I don't think I've seen that level of GI in any other raster game except gears 4 or 5.
Uncharted 4 still is tech leading together with tlou2 when it comes to raytraceless games.
Why are you contrary like that.
the fact that it's an astonishing looking game is the lest controversial thing ever

 

[Krappadizzle]

I don't think I've seen that level of GI in any other raster game except gears 4 or 5.
Uncharted 4 still is tech leading together with tlou2 when it comes to raytraceless games.
Why are you contrary like that.
the fact that it's an astonishing looking game is the lest controversial thing ever

I hated the story of TLOU2 so all it's technical achievements are superfluous.

 

[staticshock]

Inaccuracy #1:
"Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE source light"

There are multple dynamic GI light sources in Uncharted 4 and TLoUII, up to three at the same time. And not relegated to flashlights, but any kind of interior light sources from fire torches, flares and whatnot.

I literally said “flashlights and flame flights”. And having 3? Lmao dude stop while you are ahead. You were wrong. Games have hundreds of dynamic light sources while you are screaming “out of the ordinary” because a game uses 1. Or according to you 3.

Lmfao. You have been exposed. Take the L educate yourself. Learn something and keep it pushing.

Inaccuracy #2:

"Not just that, there's loads of other technical marvel not only in dynamic lighting like in RDR2"

RDR2 (version 1.00) is the most impressive technical display i've ever seen, but it does not utilize dynamic GI. All of it is baked, a similar (and improved) solution Horizon: Zero Dawn used.

Graphics Study: Red Dead Redemption 2 :: Dear World,

One of my favorite games of all time, Red Dead Redemption returned with a prequel for consoles in 2018. Then it came for PCs in 2019. I finally managed to play the game and amazed by its graphics immediately. But I got upset because I can barely play the game on medium settings at 25 FPS with a...

imgeself.github.io

RDR 2 is the only game I didn’t look at. But unlike you i don’t have the stupidity ego to not accept and admit when im wrong. Because I follow facts.

I can only imagine the state of the company hiring someone who writes like an edgy teenager on a meltdown.

Oh wow you are right, my company is in a horrible state because of a post I made on a gaming forum. Gotta love the mind of ignorant people.

Exaclty. And?
What would be the point of having exterior dynamic GI in a super linear story-driven game? The game requires time of day to be set in stone, and ND clearly aims to achieve the best possible quality at all times, impossible when having exterior dynamic GI on top of their rendering pipeline.

Lol this isn’t what you said. You literally said: “What an absolutely ignorant statement. They always had exceptional, out of the ordinary suble tech in their games ever since the first Uncharted. Their GI lighting tech for instance:”

I won’t consider 1 dynamic light source out of the ordinary and exceptional. Lmfao. Don’t worry keep being ignorant.

When dynamic lights are required they had a custom solution for it, far more advanced compared to other third person games from the time.

But go ahead and keep saying there's nothing out of the ordinary in having dynamic GI on a PS3 game.

Lmao uncharted 4 is a PS3 game?

 

[Vick]

I literally said “flashlights and flame flights”. And having 3? Lmao dude stop while you are ahead. You were wrong. Games have hundreds of dynamic light sources while you are screaming “out of the ordinary” because a game uses 1. Or according to you 3.

Lmfao. You have been exposed. Take the L educate yourself. Learn something and keep it pushing.

Dude..

Up to three sources of dynamic, light bouncing GI. There are games with "hundreds" of dynamic light bounce GI sources at the same time? Do even read the nonsense you're writing?

RDR 2 is the only game I didn’t look at. But unlike you i don’t have the stupidity ego to not accept and admit when im wrong. Because I follow facts.

Except you've been doing this for the entirety of the discussion?

Oh wow you are right, my company is in a horrible state because of a post I made on a gaming forum. Gotta love the mind of ignorant people.

Just look at your attidude man, hard to believe you're an actual adult.

Lmao uncharted 4 is a PS3 game?

The very same GI present in Uncharted 4, The Lost Legacy and TLoUII was first implemented on the first The Last of Us, on PS3. Talk about ignorance.

 

[SLB1904]

Shouldn't really waste a single minute with such a subject, but still.


Yeah.. aside from the many inaccuracies in the post and the apparent incapability to distinguish pre-baked GI from real-time GI.. The Last of Us released on PS3 in 2013. Uncharted 4 in 2016. Where are games doing dynamic GI on Consoles during those years looking even close to that?


What a moron you are.

Drake's Fortune Water:




Name a single game having wet shaders on characters clothing before Drake's Fortune.

Name a game from 2009 or before using per object motion blur, SSS and SSAO on Consoles. Digital Foundry on Uncharted 2:

"Uncharted 2 was the game that changed everything, redefining the third-person genre, setting new standards in technology"

Name a Console game from 2011 with volumetric lighting better than Uncharted 3.

Uncharted 3 fire tech:

Uncharted 3 to push the envelope with fire effects

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception is set to continue Naughty Dog's tradition of graphical achievement by featuring procedu…

www.vg247.com

Uncharted 3 ship level (time-stamped):

18 Mind-Blowing Facts You Never Knew About The Uncharted Series

'Sic Parvis Magna' doesn't mean what you think it means...

whatculture.com

"The cruise ship sequence in Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception, which has Drake make his way through a cruise ship as it lurches amidst a storm, is one of the greatest technological accomplishments of the entire series. Not only is it visually spectacular, but the use of water based physics still remains as impressive today as it was almost five years ago.

Naughty Dog went out of their way to make it feel as real as possible by building an ocean simulation. Instead of remaining on an animation loop, the movement of the ship is dictated by its interaction with the surrounding water in real time, swaying back and forth as the waves push against the hull. This affects objects within the ship, including Drake, who intuitively adjusts his balance based on the ship's movement and position at a given time.
This constantly fluctuating environment forces you to adapt depending on the circumstances, and it all comes together to craft an amazing action sequence that stands out as one of the best of the series, which is saying a lot."

Digital Foundry on it:

"You may have seen the cruise ship level. What people may not realise is that it's not just a big object that we are animating, it's one enormous physics object whose movement is driven by another dynamic system we have in the game: our new dynamic sea system. So each time that Drake rocks around on the deck of that ship the movement he is subject to is unique."

"It's not just the look of the effects, it's their application in terms of gameplay. The cruise ship is the highlight of the water technology: the animation of the ship itself within the ocean, plus the rushing water of the breached hull, even the water in the swimming pool is sublimely animated. However, preceding this stage are areas of gameplay where Drake is in direct contact with the ocean, where the height of the water-line itself can be of crucial importance in deciding where to go next, what to do, and whether a stealthy approach is viable or not.

Fire is the most destructive of the elements and it is here that Naughty Dog does some of its best work, marrying the uncanny effect with some excellent use of the destruction system that sees scenery collapse, breaking into component pieces and literally razing the impressive Chateau level to the ground."




Uncharted 3 sand:




Digital Foundry on U3 sand:

"For a game where the desert is so important, Naughty Dog's implementation of sand in terms of pixel shaders and surrounding effects work is nothing short of remarkable."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 3:

"What we do have is a game where state-of-the-art technology combined with a keen narrative sense gives us a story and an experience that is often light years beyond any other third-person action game we've seen since Uncharted 2. In a sense, Naughty Dog's greatest competition in the games industry is its own towering reputation, and the resultant expectation levels of the fanbase."

Digital Foundry on Uncharted 4 IQ:

• Image quality: Uncharted 4 delivers the best image quality we've seen in a console game to date. Even in the face of rare titles like Tearaway Unfolded, with its high quality MSAA settings, Uncharted 4 stands tall. Naughty Dog has developed a temporal anti-aliasing technique that delivers results that sometimes manage to approach the quality of a super-sampled image. Thin edges are remarkably clean, shader aliasing is almost non-existent, and shimmering is all but eliminated. Large, complex fields of detailed foliage remain razor sharp even at a distance while finer details on Nate's weapons remain clearly visible. We noted similarities to the hybrid-reconstruction anti-aliasing used in Far Cry 4 but we cannot say for sure how this was achieved. Perhaps Naughty Dog will share more information on this in the future, as the results are stunning and this technique could benefit console games as a whole.

Ironic isn't it? Now please take your own advice and kindly fuck off.

 

[Shmunter]

Pretty static worlds are nice for screenshots, but for games we need the world to react as we expect. Physics and simulation needs focus.

 

[SlimySnake]

Will never understand the wild obsession with the graphics in spiderman. Outside of the character rendering which is good but not ground-breaking.
The actual environment rendering doesn't hold a candle to the The Division 1. They are both games in snow so we can compare them.
If you watch all 12 mins of footage below in 4k.

The snow in MM is very basic in comparison.

Spiderman like all Sony games are a complete package. They dont need to do snow the best its ever been done when overall the game looks like this:

This is the PS4 version. Looks even more stunning after it got the ray tracing remaster.

Division is a great looking game, but to outright dismiss Spiderman by saying it doesnt hold a candle to Division is a ridiculous thing to say. Both games their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[sircaw]

Spiderman like all Sony games are a complete package. They dont need to do snow the best its ever been done when overall the game looks like this:

This is the PS4 version. Looks even more stunning after it got the ray tracing remaster.

Division is a great looking game, but to outright dismiss Spiderman by saying it doesnt hold a candle to Division is a ridiculous thing to say. Both games their own strengths and weaknesses.

Jesus Christ, that game is the epitome of uglyness, Wtf was Insomniac thinking, bunch of Amateurs

 

[TheRedRiders]

Division is a great looking game, but to outright dismiss Spiderman by saying it doesnt hold a candle to Division is a ridiculous thing to say. Both games their own strengths and weaknesses.

Running The Division at max settings on an RTX 3090 and then comparing it to something like Spiderman or MM running on hardware significantly weaker than that is also a very poor comparison.

 

[nominedomine]

OMG you have no idea what you are talking about.
IT is YOU who clearly have no idea what's baked GI and what real-time GI is.

There are zero in-accuracies in any of my post. You just don't understand them.
First of all you have no idea how games work. This would be like me trying to explain to you C++, c# functions (I'm a software engineer)

The last of us 1 and 2 and uncharted 4 used baked light-mass and static probe lighting for dynamic objects.

To understand this, you need to understand how games are created.
Developers use different type of light sources: point light, spot light, area light, skylight and directional light. The former being cheaper than the later.
These lights can either be static, stationary or dynamic. The former being cheaper than the later.

Games typically have hundreds/thousands of light sources.
If your game was going to be static like TLOU and Uncharted. You would use a static directional light that doesn't move (which you bake to a texture) and then a static skylight which values doesn't change (which you also bake to a texture).

Then static point light, spot light and area light around the world which you also bake to a texture.

This is what TLOU and Uncharted is doing.
The only dynamic light source in TLOU 2 is your flashlight and the flame lights.
This is similar in Uncharted 4.

No Day/Night cycle, no destroying a street light with dynamic spot light and then the alley way going dark.
This is the different between a static GI game TLOU/Uncharted versus a dynamic GI game (quantum break, control, the division, RDR 2, etc)

Infact TLOU 2 used very little lighting from lights source other than the lightmass of the sky light.
For dynamic objects (for example characters) TLOU 2 used static probe lighting. Which is why they look so out of place.

In comparison a game like The Division released in 2016 used dynamic radiance transfer probe all over the world.
The entire world were lit with dynamic light source that you can destroy. Starting with the skylight and Directional light which is the most expensive because they lit the entire world and not a small radius like point lights, area lights and spot lights.

Then the point lights, area lights and spot lights scatter all over the city. Now do you understand the statement? "Then you will stop being impressed and calling the use of subpar dynamic GI on ONE small light source versus games who use dynamic GI on ALL source lights and on the whole game world from a directional light acting as the sun. You literally calling GI on 1 source light exceptional and out of the ordinary. While there are games that use it on ALL."

Another one is quantum break released in 2016 Time: 2m50s


I could keep going...but its pointless


You are literally just quoting words. Like wtf. Educate yourself. Actually learn what the technique and technology they are using so you can actually comprehend what it is and compare it.

The other stuff is pure nonsense and demonstrate your absolute ignorance of how games are made and its actually pointless for me to respond to.

Like you calling a basic ocean shader and simulation that existed in other games (assassin creed, etc) at the time whose parameters is being fed to a physics ship (this is called buoyancy) as "the most technically complex level ever made".

You are literally calling buoyancy, the most technically complex level ever made. Talk about Ignorance is bliss.

I love how ND gets people like you so mad. At the end of the day their games look better than pretty much anything that was made for PS4, what matters is the end result no the checklist of what was used to achieve it.

The line about C++, C# and being an engineer is *chef kiss*.

Control runs like shit and doesn't look impressive at all on PS4, so what's the point?

 

[Borowski_1]

what's the announced game that you think will have crazy graphics?

 

[TheRedRiders]

I love how ND gets people like you so mad. At the end of the day their games look better than pretty much anything that was made for PS4, what matters is the end result no the checklist of what was used to achieve it.

Exactly. The developers make do with the hardware they have available. There's always going to be tradeoffs when going after bleeding edge visuals.

Things also might be impressive more on a technical level than on a visual level. This is common with ray tracing as a lot of the RT implementations in recent years lack major improvements in visuals (except a handful of games) , unless you know what to look for, which in most cases people don't unless you come from a developer/artist background.

 

[TheRedRiders]

This was upload yesterday, thought it was worth sharing given the subject at hand.

 

[Shmunter]

This was upload yesterday, thought it was worth sharing given the subject at hand.

Lovely

 

[SlimySnake]

This was upload yesterday, thought it was worth sharing given the subject at hand.

The game actually looks better lol

 

[VFXVeteran]

The game actually looks better lol

So a PS4 game with static GI light probes looks better than a next-gen UE5 demo with Lumen + Nanite?

We've heard it all folks!

 

[rofif]

The game actually looks better lol

It actually does.

So a PS4 game with static GI light probes looks better than a next-gen UE5 demo with Lumen + Nanite?

We've heard it all folks!

Man I love you but tlou2 does look much better.
That's because GI is static and baked in.
If you look at it from the "result" standpoint without knowledge that tlou2 is not dynamic etc, then it does not matter what tech is inside.
That's why UC4 and TLOU2 look so good. They baked everything in, the time of day does not change and the results are great.

 

[VFXVeteran]

It actually does.


Man I love you but tlou2 does look much better.
That's because GI is static and baked in.

The GI in TLOU2 is wrong. There is a green hue on every single asset that screams baked GI green light probes. That alone makes it look inferior.

The foliage also looks much crisper in the demo. The only thing I don't like in the demo is the fake water shading.

 

[SlimySnake]

So a PS4 game with static GI light probes looks better than a next-gen UE5 demo with Lumen + Nanite?

We've heard it all folks!

Who gives a fuck if it’s real-time or fake if one looks better than the other. I swear people have lost their fucking minds.

Use your eyes ffs.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Who gives a fuck if it’s real-time or fake if one looks better than the other.

But it doesn't look better because it's saturated with GREEN COLOR! The final pixel color is WRONG! You got tons of green light probes all over the place and then adding those colors into the regular lighting equation without normalizing the GI contribution and everything appears like a glowy green. Just like Horizon's super orange GI that makes rocks glow orange.

In no way shape or form does it look better than actually computing a better approximate color value like Lumen/RT GI would do.

 

[Lethal01]

But it doesn't look better because it's saturated with GREEN COLOR! The final pixel color is WRONG! You got tons of green light probes all over the place and then adding those colors into the regular lighting equation without normalizing the GI contribution and everything appears like a glowy green. Just like Horizon's super orange GI that makes rocks glow orange.

In no way shape or form does it look better than actually computing a better approximate color value like Lumen/RT GI would do.

What you mean to say is it looks more accurate, that's totally different from looking better, Horizon's oversaturated colors are gorgeous.

 

[rofif]

The GI in TLOU2 is wrong. There is a green hue on every single asset that screams baked GI green light probes. That alone makes it look inferior.

The foliage also looks much crisper in the demo. The only thing I don't like in the demo is the fake water shading.

It's green because it's in the forest. I don't know what else to expect. The horse is not green.
Timestamped looks pretty good honestly in HDR. I would need to replay it on ps5
1:37 needs to watch on hdr display in hdr

 

[VFXVeteran]

It's green because it's in the forest. I don't know what else to expect. The horse is not green.
Timestamped looks pretty good honestly in HDR. I would need to replay it on ps5
1:37 needs to watch on hdr display in hdr

Go do a search for real green forest images and look at the surrounding objects (even tree bark). There is a complete emphasis of green on top of the actual color. This is the true definition of GI probes. The shader looks around to find GI probes to add color to the final pixel color. The problem is that it's not using real physics falloff like it should. Green color should be very very subtle and falloff using Newton's inverse square falloff of light based on distance. I don't want to waste time talking about the specifics but that is the biggest drawback of using inaccurate light probes in scenes where most of the color comes from foliage (i.e. green).

None of the tree bark or ground has "green" on it from bounced light from the foliage.

 

[rofif]

Go do a search for real green forest images and look at the surrounding objects (even tree bark). There is a complete emphasis of green on top of the actual color. This is the true definition of GI probes. The shader looks around to find GI probes to add color to the final pixel color. The problem is that it's not using real physics falloff like it should. Green color should be very very subtle and falloff using Newton's inverse square falloff of light based on distance. I don't want to waste time talking about the specifics but that is the biggest drawback of using inaccurate light probes in scenes where most of the color comes from foliage (i.e. green).

so what was stopping them from using correct gi probes to bake?
Maybe this result just looked more vibrant/cinematic ?

 

[KXVXII9X]

Pretty static worlds are nice for screenshots, but for games we need the world to react as we expect. Physics and simulation needs focus.

This. I won't begin to care much about graphical fidelity until physics/simulation, A.I., animations, and level/environment design improve.

 

[VFXVeteran]

so what was stopping them from using correct gi probes to bake?

Too much processing time. They would have to multiple the number of their probes by 10x or more which will put way too many probes to look up in a single radial area. And they can't use it as an ambient term (which isn't realworld). If a tree is out of the light and completely in shadow, then it should be black like the real picture I showed.

Maybe this result just looked more vibrant/cinematic ?

Nah. It's just the way they do it nowadays. It's just too expensive to do it correctly. I can spot it a mile away and looking at the Lumen demo there, it's not there at all. Bark has it's original color and so does the ground and surrounding geometry. And that's why it looks better - because it's closer to real life.

 

[mansoor1980]

naughty dog will raise the bar once more in the gaming industry and others will take note

 

[Shmunter]

The game actually looks better lol

Man I forget how amazing that looks, looks pre-render. That 60fps really tops it off, need to do my second play through this time on ps5 asap.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Will never understand the wild obsession with the graphics in spiderman. Outside of the character rendering which is good but not ground-breaking.
The actual environment rendering doesn't hold a candle to the The Division 1. They are both games in snow so we can compare them.
If you watch all 12 mins of footage below in 4k.

The snow in MM is very basic in comparison.


naughty dog is very overrated around these parts. They are only great in two things, character rendering and animation. That's it. There's alot more to a game than just character rendering and animation. Everything else they are subpar at.

Even the most intensive part of game rendering (alpha effects particles in particular). Naughty dogs sparingly uses it in their games. While in alot of games, for example in control. Having 10 massive explosions and dozens of particle effect going on at the same time and for minutes straight is regular normal gameplay. While in naughty dog game, you might experience an encounter that includes the use of an explosion or usage of particle effects once every 15-30 mins and then its usually singular?

Some games its literally every second.

Lastly, What you think is open isn't really open, its just clever loading. The game loads the next scene when you are going through a house or a alley, or anywhere with blocked FOV. For example in god of war its done not so cleverly which is when you are climbing.

All this become apparent if you look at the free cam. Then you see all the tricks that are being employed.
Tricks you won't be able to get away with in an actual open world game.

So no its not the "Amazing naughty god". Its simply the type/kind of game they are making.

How many character models are on the street at any one time in the Division? the game looks good but it's incredibly slow and the streets are almost completely lifeless except for when a fight breaks out usually with no more than a few other characters. Spider-Man has streets full of people and cars that are actually moving lol, you have access to top of the tallest buildings, you have all kinds of other effects going on etc. I will say the nighttime lighting in the Division looks better than Spider-Man, for some reason the lighting at night lets that game down compared to the rest of it. The division is a lifeless game where almost nothing on the street has any physics applied to it, it's almost all static, that's not the case in Spider-Man at all.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

But it doesn't look better because it's saturated with GREEN COLOR! The final pixel color is WRONG! You got tons of green light probes all over the place and then adding those colors into the regular lighting equation without normalizing the GI contribution and everything appears like a glowy green. Just like Horizon's super orange GI that makes rocks glow orange.

In no way shape or form does it look better than actually computing a better approximate color value like Lumen/RT GI would do.

Are you talking about the mossy green stuff on the wet ground? that grows in real life, I see plenty of brown areas that don't have a green hue. We are also talking about a game that was made to run on a 1.8TF machine so comparing it to a new engine and tech like UE5 & Lumen that isn't even in a real game yet seems like a waste of time.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I want a racing game with this graphics.... Like a Split second with Matrix Awakens graphics.




Or reach this graphics from Final fantasy movie. In real time

 

[VFXVeteran]

Are you talking about the mossy green stuff on the wet ground? that grows in real life, I see plenty of brown areas that don't have a green hue.

I know what I see. 99% of all games use GI light probes to compute an ambient term attenuated only by screenspace AO. I'm not talking about the moss but the green hue on every object moving. It's very apparent. TLOU2 and mostly every other game uses this crude technique and it is extremely inaccurate and looks horrible compared to what it should look like. I am convinced that people don't even know what they are looking at and what has problems and what doesn't. People should clearly see the difference in GI between Lumen and static probe GI lighting.

We are also talking about a game that was made to run on a 1.8TF machine so comparing it to a new engine and tech like UE5 & Lumen that isn't even in a real game yet seems like a waste of time.

I am not the one making the comparison. Slimy Snake went out there and said the ridiculous comment. You should get on him. After all these years on these boards looking at screen comparisons RTGI vs. GI Light Probes, etc.. and playing games, you'd think he'd know what looks correct and what doesn't.

 

[Vick]

I know what I see. 99% of all games use GI light probes to compute an ambient term attenuated only by screenspace AO. I'm not talking about the moss but the green hue on every object moving. It's very apparent. TLOU2 and mostly every other game uses this crude technique and it is extremely inaccurate and looks horrible compared to what it should look like. I am convinced that people don't even know what they are looking at and what has problems and what doesn't. People should clearly see the difference in GI between Lumen and static probe GI lighting.

Yeah, a truly ghastly attempt..

It may not be 100% photoreal (and neither is that UE5 recreation, at all), but you'd have to be pretty damn blinded by hate to not recognize this as a gorgeous presentation of forest environments, aesthetically and not.

 

[staticshock]

Spiderman like all Sony games are a complete package. They dont need to do snow the best its ever been done when overall the game looks like this:

Division is a great looking game, but to outright dismiss Spiderman by saying it doesnt hold a candle to Division is a ridiculous thing to say. Both games their own strengths and weaknesses.

Snow isn't the only thing that's best in The division. There's the lighting that's better and fully dynamic, there's the weather system and volumetric lighting and fog. There's the destruction and physics that's also better. The only thing spiderman is better at is character rendering and maybe cloth.

You see, what you are looking at right there is ART. You are saying, LOOK AT THIS. That's not tech.

From hence-forth, anyone who reads the below MUST use their brain, if they can't use their brain then don't even both to read below.

If we actually take a look at the division and spiderman. They are both a rendition of NYC, but the division is an actual aim to get to a 1 to 1 scale than spiderman. Its not even close.

When i compare tech, I look at it as, If i took the assets from Game A into Game B's Game engine without creating a new tech to accommodate for it. Will it?

1) Look worse

2) Look the same

3) Look better

The difference between spiderman's city and the division is that they used more glass buildings which are 100% clean and reflective (rather than dirty and dull due to an apocalypse), secondly all their buildings are tall.

I can actually pull up that exact same buildings in that location. I can tell you how many triangles it is, show you the texture and normal map and the interior cube map they use on it.

So if we take the building from spiderman and put it into the division. Will it look worse? The answer is absolutely no. Because there's nothing about those buildings that's actually unique, most are procedural materials with basic textures with interior cubemap and exterior cubemap reflection being applied.

Will it look the same or better? It will look absolutely better due to the complex volumetric lighting and fog and actual time of day that the division has. Including other things like POM, PCF, etc

Spiderman looks good when you are high and ugly when you actually come down to the city. The division look amazing when you are down to the city and would look amazing also if you swap its buildings with clean glass reflective buildings with cubemaps.

There's a place for judging art, then there's a place for judging graphical tech. It's all about object density, material shaders (PBR) and complexity, lighting, volumetrics, particles and destruction.

One doesn't equate to the other. Spiderman's engine simply lack the tech that the snowdrop engine has. And that's comparing a 2016 game to a 2018 and 2020 game.

Stuff like this Vick wouldn't be able to wrap his head around, even if you gave him 10 lifetimes. Its funny that he says i'm ignorant, but if he knew 10% of what I know. His head would explode!

Spider-Man (2018)

Miles Morale (2020)

Remember people. Use your brain not your heart. Its not yet illegal.

 

[staticshock]

I love how ND gets people like you so mad. At the end of the day their games look better than pretty much anything that was made for PS4, what matters is the end result no the checklist of what was used to achieve it. Control runs like shit and doesn't look impressive at all on PS4, so what's the point?

The only one here full of emotions is YOU. If control was a PS4 exclusive and remedy was a Sony studio, you would be talking about how its the most amazing looking game with the best physics and destruction.
We wouldn't hear the end of it. But because its not, you Sony fans don't peep a sound about it. Its one of the most under-rated games because its not a exclusive to either sides of the warriors.

This is coming from someone whose had PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4 Pro and about to get a PS5 in the coming days/weeks. In that order.

You let your fanatism rule you. I don't.

The line about C++, C# and being an engineer is *chef kiss*.

That's the difference between me and you, while you mock the people in the know and at the same time cry because you don't have the knowledge.

I can't wait for the first AAA game on Unreal 5, it's a shame it's taking this long. We are one and a half years into the gen already, I don't think there's even a single Unreal 5 game with a release date.

I on the other hand, don't have to wait on others to create something i want to see. It's the difference between being an engineer and NOT being an engineer.
When I wanted to drive around with police cars in the City Sample. I went and coded functionality to spawn police car and also developed a fully functioning siren system. All in just acouple hours of free time.
None of this were marketplace assets as you have seen with city sample videos. All of this is custom code.

That's the difference between me and you. And there are other stuff i planned aswell, I'm just waiting for freetime from my senior software engineer dayjob.
Things like: watchdogs profiler and adding complex AI and all the hacking functionality from Watch dogs (traffic light, steam pipes, bollards, etc). traffic stops, police chase, etc
All custom code. Nothing from the marketplace. Again that's what separates people like me from people like you and Vick
I'm an actual engineer, I look at things and see how its done and brake it apart.
You look at things and are like "OMG that looks pretty."
I'm like "Now how did they do this."

 

[nominedomine]

The only one here full of emotions is YOU. If control was a PS4 exclusive and remedy was a Sony studio, you would be talking about how its the most amazing looking game with the best physics and destruction.
We wouldn't hear the end of it. But because its not, you Sony fans don't peep a sound about it. Its one of the most under-rated games because its not a exclusive to either sides of the warriors.

This is coming from someone whose had PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4 Pro and about to get a PS5 in the coming days/weeks. In that order.

You let your fanatism rule you. I don't.



That's the difference between me and you, while you mock the people in the know and at the same time cry because you don't have the knowledge.


I on the other hand, don't have to wait on others to create something i want to see. It's the difference between being an engineer and NOT being an engineer.
When I wanted to drive around with police cars in the City Sample. I went and coded functionality to spawn police car and also developed a fully functioning siren system. All in just acouple hours of free time.
None of this were marketplace assets as you have seen with city sample videos. All of this is custom code.

That's the difference between me and you. And there are other stuff i planned aswell, I'm just waiting for freetime from my senior software engineer dayjob.
Things like: watchdogs profiler and adding complex AI and all the hacking functionality from Watch dogs (traffic light, steam pipes, bollards, etc). traffic stops, police chase, etc
All custom code. Nothing from the marketplace.



Again that's what separates people like me from people like you and Vick
I'm an actual engineer, I look at things and see how its done and brake it apart.
You look at things and are like "OMG that looks pretty."
I'm like "Now how did they do this."

Control is on PlayStation what are you talking about? Why would I have anything against it? You are the one who is in denial giving studios like ND no credit. You ain't fooling nobody dude. You are embarrassing yourself in this topic, grow up Mr. Engineer, bragging about knowing basic stuff isn't helping your case.

If you are going to be acting like such an authority than show us for witch studio you work as a Graphics Engineer, if not stop repeating that like a deranged individual. What are you even doing here Mr. big shot?

"I'm an engineer", say that again please, what a complete fool.

What separates people like me from people like you is that I'm self-aware.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yeah, a truly ghastly attempt..

It may not be 100% photoreal (and neither is that UE5 recreation, at all), but you'd have to be pretty damn blinded by hate to not recognize this as a gorgeous presentation of forest environments, aesthetically and not.

No one is criticizing the look of the game! Where did that come from?

I only said the technique for GI light probes is highly inaccurate and makes it look wrong compared to a proper solution. That's a fact. A much better approximation to GI light probes is Lumen or RT. That can't be debated. GI light probes don't look "better" than the more accurate approximation. That's like saying SSR is better looking than RT reflections. That's simply NOT TRUE.

 

[nominedomine]

No one is criticizing the look of the game! Where did that come from?

I only said the technique for GI light probes is highly inaccurate and makes it look wrong compared to a proper solution. That's a fact. A much better approximation to GI light probes is Lumen or RT. That can't be debated. GI light probes don't look "better" than the more accurate approximation. That's like saying SSR is better looking than RT reflections. That's simply NOT TRUE.

Wow, so a PS4 game from 2020 doesn't have the technology of an engine that hasn't shipped a single AAA game (or even announced a release date for a proper game) and doesn't use all the RT hardware that the PS4 doesn't have.

ND should hire all the self proclaimed experts in this topic to give them a hand. They are struggling to keep up with Remedy and Ubisoft.

 

[Vick]

Stuff like this Vick wouldn't be able to wrap his head around, even if you gave him 10 lifetimes. Its funny that he says i'm ignorant, but if he knew 10% of what I know. His head would explode!


Remember people. Use your brain not your heart. Its not yet illegal.

That's the difference between me and you, while you mock the people in the know and at the same time cry because you don't have the knowledge.

I on the other hand, don't have to wait on others to create something i want to see. It's the difference between being an engineer and NOT being an engineer.

That's the difference between me and you. And there are other stuff i planned aswell, I'm just waiting for freetime from my senior software engineer dayjob.
Again that's what separates people like me from people like you and Vick
I'm an actual engineer, I look at things and see how its done and brake it apart.
You look at things and are like "OMG that looks pretty."
I'm like "Now how did they do this."

Christ almighty.. you clearly are a special case.

You came into this Thread stating ND is overrated around these parts, that they are subpar and actually among the worst at anything other than character rendering and animations, as if you literally came into this world yesterday and missed a whole decade of Devs and Tech outlets regarding Naughty Dog as "Tech Gods" in the Console space. You had the audacity of denying actual facts using the most hysterical, braindead teenager jargon to later entirely dismiss you being in the wrong.

You are in fact so ignorant you ignore the meaning of the actual term:

"ignorant​

adjective

UK

/ˈɪɡ.nər.ənt/ US

/ˈɪɡ.nɚ.ənt/

C2
not having enough knowledge, understanding, or information about something"

Saying that i'm ignorant and don't know what i'm talking about for stating universally accepted facts, to later being proved wrong, makes you a literal ignorant.

Which would be fine, nobody is expecting you to know everything, but you are now going on the most patethic, miserable and embarassing bragging i've probably ever seen for being a "senior software engineer" (would you mind getting vetted by Mods?) as if that frivolous profession would make you genetically superior to the other users you're insulting?
You are a laughing stock, you don't know me, have no idea of what nationality i am, what my age is, what upbringing i had, what studies i've done, what degrees i have, literally nothing and yet you're here throwing insults around in the most petty and edgy attitude i've ever seen, saying that if i had 10% of your knowledge my head would explode?
I have enough knowledge to say you should be embarassed of your delusions of grandeur, or for wasting your life in this field of expertise of yours for that matter.

At least VFXVeteran had the balls to get vetted so his work can be judged. Do the same, i'd like to avoid whatever products your mobile, Z-Tier Company produces.

 

[staticshock]

missed a whole decade of Devs and Tech outlets regarding Naughty Dog as "Tech Gods" in the Console space. You had the audacity of denying actual facts using the most hysterical, braindead teenager jargon to later entirely dismiss you being in the wrong.

Spoken like a typical clueless fanboy who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. You literally know nothing. its actually quite sad.
This is your entire fact. Regurgitating marketing and hype statements while knowing absolutely nothing. Sorry I don't ignorantly worship companies that work for your plastic box maker.
Read a fking technical book. get educated and actually do something.
I take that back, if you knew 1% what i know, your head would explode.

 

[nominedomine]

Spoken like a typical clueless fanboy who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. You literally know nothing. its actually quite sad.
This is your entire fact. Regurgitating marketing and hype statements while knowing absolutely nothing. Sorry I don't ignorantly worship companies that work for your plastic box maker.
Read a fking technical book. get educated and actually do something.
I take that back, if you knew 1% what i know, your head would explode.

If you had 1% of the knowledge you think you have, maybe you'd have some humility and would spare us the embarrassment of reading all this garbage you've been posting.