CamHostage
Member
Guys, guys, guys... come on, you FINALLY have a graphics showcase to talk about, so talk about it!
There's like four pages on the front page alone where there's talk about HB2's gameplay. Focus in here.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Guys, guys, guys... come on, you FINALLY have a graphics showcase to talk about, so talk about it!
There's like four pages on the front page alone where there's talk about HB2's gameplay. Focus in here.
ChiefDada
Member
I agree with both of you. I don't praise the development time or lack of an underlying game. I just think better, smaller scope experiences have a place and can be better executed than HB2.
And this is the graphics thread so we have to give credit on real time rendering executed here, even though I would have preferred more environmental variety.
DanielG165
Member
Yeah, gameplay or mostly lack there of aside (I haven’t played it yet to fully judge), we’re now looking at the best graphical showcase game of the current gen. Let’s talk about that, in the graphics thread lol.
GymWolf
Member
For people who are playing the game already, does the rocks\textures have the same problem that robocop had? Incredible looking from long-mid distance but they get increasingly worse and flat the more you get close\zoom?
Because robocop has legit ue5 demo or better looking rocks in some levels but the more you get close the worse they get.
This is less of a problem in third person, but i just want to know if we actually reached quixel scan level of details even when you zoom to death.
And i saw even better pics than these where it was basically identical to a real life pic.
Because robocop has legit ue5 demo or better looking rocks in some levels but the more you get close the worse they get.
This is less of a problem in third person, but i just want to know if we actually reached quixel scan level of details even when you zoom to death.
And i saw even better pics than these where it was basically identical to a real life pic.
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sncvsrtoip
Gold Member
it never tries to be I think, its much closer to The Order or Ryse
CamHostage
Member
I believe what you're talking about is a known and recurrent aspect of the way Nanite works in realtime usage, that there are some ranges of detail where the tesselation can either be viewable breaking down or gets kind of mushy up close. It's kind of a challenge of too much detail, where nothing is optimized for the specifics of the scene.
(Also, games generally don't just throw in unretouched Megascans into the package, you'd have 10s of GBs of just data and texture for even a couple of rocks.)
If a game requires players to get incredibly close to objects or environments, there will still need to be other methods of detail added either to the material or the model or the overall rendering approach to achieve visual integrity up close. Nanite has the selling point of being "the end of LODs", but this is cinema/gamecrafting, and levels of detail are part of the magic; film studios don't just use scale models because they're small and controllable, they also can put specific detail at scale where they want for the needs of a scene to look the best on camera, and game development can be the same.
Megascan Quixel "quality" isn't just a matter of throwing these massive, hi-res industrial models into a shot and done. They're still using camera and LOD techniques to make them look as good as they can in those screenshots, and they will hold up differently in use depending on how you use them.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Pharaoh 117
Member
I'm enjoying the game. It really is basically this gen''s "The Order" in more ways than one. It sets a new bar for graphics, that's for sure. Simply stunning.
nemiroff
Gold Member
I agree that would be silly. But to be clear: That was not part of my argument regarding HB2 but rather a side-observation of what's going on in this thread lately regarding off-topic discussions. It's not a huge problem right now, but it will be if the trend continues.
And btw, the CA in this game is a more like a simulation of how color fringing works (in a lens) rather than being smeared all over the image. At least there's that.
Gotta say tho, playing this in 4K and the game having some beautiful assets and geometry and draw distance to go along with it, it's honestly among the contextually crispiest and most asymmetrically detailed games around.
Edit:
Well, that's one of the examples of unnecessary off-topic discussions that might slowly kill this thread. So I'll do my part and refrain from comparing it to.. ..nah
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GooseMan69
Member
I love the “softer” look that Hellblade 2 has. Some people don’t like all the post processing effects but I’m all about it if it’s done well.
JCreasy
Member
By far
I might replay it on PS5 Pro
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
New kingsmaker gameplay clip shows complete destruction. Buildings, castles, people.
Whats crazy is that this is running at 60 fps on consoles. Up to 4000 NPCs, fully dynamic Global Illumination and destruction. Amazing what these indie devs are doing with modern consoles.
Whats crazy is that this is running at 60 fps on consoles. Up to 4000 NPCs, fully dynamic Global Illumination and destruction. Amazing what these indie devs are doing with modern consoles.
Lethal01
Member
God please no, don't spend more time on the tech demos, dive me into actual games, If you just want me to hold forward and look then make a movie
I'm not here for the graphical fidelity of "experiences".
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peish
Member
For people who are playing the game already, does the rocks\textures have the same problem that robocop had? Incredible looking from long-mid distance but they get increasingly worse and flat the more you get close\zoom?
Because robocop has legit ue5 demo or better looking rocks in some levels but the more you get close the worse they get.
This is less of a problem in third person, but i just want to know if we actually reached quixel scan level of details even when you zoom to death.
And i saw even better pics than these where it was basically identical to a real life pic.
I think it looks worse than robocop
JCreasy
Member
I think it looks worse than robocop
Oh noo! essh
JCreasy
Member
It's cool how you can do Photomode during cutscenes too:
Not sure why the screenshots come out so washed out for me though, I assume due to HDR conversion?
So THIS is the LOD that impressed me so much months ago. Looks incredibly real. It's their hero LOD for cutscenes.
Again -- Nanite for skeletal meshes can't get here soon enough! Has the potential to be absolutely transformative once it's truly game ready. Hero LODs for gameplay will knock all of us on our asses when they get here.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Hellblade 2's geometry and environments are the star of the show but a couple things bother me about the game:
1. They didn't add a single new mechanic to the combat and in fact made it even similar than the first game. HB1 you could do a jumping kick attack well that's gone now. Also, no real party or timing based moves. No reason to dodge one type of attack and block another type.
2. Game is too dark in some sections to where i was wondering if the game suffers from black crush. Between the softness and the gamma issue it, so much detail gets obscured...not every area but that first village area really stick out. Dark is fine but when shadows are black that's no bueno.
1. They didn't add a single new mechanic to the combat and in fact made it even similar than the first game. HB1 you could do a jumping kick attack well that's gone now. Also, no real party or timing based moves. No reason to dodge one type of attack and block another type.
2. Game is too dark in some sections to where i was wondering if the game suffers from black crush. Between the softness and the gamma issue it, so much detail gets obscured...not every area but that first village area really stick out. Dark is fine but when shadows are black that's no bueno.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I disagree ...detail is maintained unlike robocop. Don't listen to dude
Msamy
Member
After hellblade 2 , alanwake 2,avatar ,star wars outlow trailer, DS2 trailer and marvel 1943 (trailer and demo), i if sony first party studios (except guerilla) won't show next gen visuals they need to move on from their current engines and use UE5 or decima also i think sony right now increase the focus in decima engine given that they currently updating it to provide cutting edge tech in the next kojima game after DS2
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nosoynadie22
Member
That's PC no?? I would say keep your gun powder dry until u see how consoles perform, maybe keep teardown in mind as that's your closet barometer for what happens when the physics get dialed up.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the devs told DF in an interview that the game is running at 60 fps even on consoles iirc. this is not a 30 fps game.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I expected Sony first party to have a show with like 5 big name exclusives this week, but i guess Sony is skipping E3 again after skipping it in 2019, 2021 and 2022. it's crazy but thats where we are right now.
the issue with sony first party isnt engines, its poor management. from top to bottom. Jimbo and Herman greenlighting remakes and cross gen games. Studio heads like Neil going MIA trying to make it big in hollywood, and Days Gone studio heads cancelling the Days Gone IP then the uncharted spinoff costing the studio 2 full years. God knows whats happening at SSM for Cory to take so long to make his new IP. Honestly it cant be the engine. Everyone worth a damn has been able to add RT features to their games. Remedy, Massive, Capcom, 4A studios, Asobo studios, Techland, CD Project, Square Enix. I can go on and on. These Sony studios aside from insomniac just wont do it. and even insomniac is just doing reflections.
i will give them one more week in case they want to wait until after memorial day but im not going to spend all summer waiting for a showcase this year. did that in 2021 and 2022. its clear they had nothing to show last year either as they showed up with like 5 CG trailers. you would think they would have something new to show 4 years after their last big first party conference but i have a bad feeling about this year.
Pharaoh 117
Member
Last rumors point to the Showcase still happening this month. Worst case scenario we will get a Showcase in September, Sony has been pretty consistent at doing one Showcase per year (if they are good or not it's another story).
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Some direct feed HB2 screens from my own Series X for
ChiefDada
and
SlimySnake
's evaluation.
I think, on console at least, this is probably the most impressive thing I have played visually this gen so far.
And a quick video, I don't know a good free host for higher resolution sorry, Streamable butchers it to 720p.
ChiefDada
and
SlimySnake
's evaluation.I think, on console at least, this is probably the most impressive thing I have played visually this gen so far.
And a quick video, I don't know a good free host for higher resolution sorry, Streamable butchers it to 720p.
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DanielG165
Member
A 2080S absolutely chews through Hellblade 2 at 1440p, High, with DLSS balanced, and the image quality doesn’t look any worse for wear. I was looking forward to seeing this game with my own eyes for a while now, and I’m glad that I finally have the chance to. Games are always something that one has to see for themselves natively, but such is especially the case for Hellblade 2; no amount of videos or photos will fully do the graphical fidelity justice.
For me, it goes like this: Hellblade 2, Alan Wake 2, and Avatar. HB2 is now the best looking game on the market (not counting the likes of Flight Simulator), and I say that with confidence. There are things here that almost look a generation ahead, such as the character models, draw distance, and textures. The animations are masterfully executed too. I wish we could easily turn off the CA, but it’s not TOO offensive here, though it would be the first thing I did disable just like every other game.
I really don’t want to come off like I’m overselling the game, or crazy biased, but I’m purely speaking from my experience so far. Hellblade 2 looks absolutely insane, and I genuinely can’t fathom how Ninja Theory pulled these visuals off with a team of, what, 80 people? The only things that will come close to this moving forward will be Death Stranding 2, whatever Naughty Dog has planned, and GTA6. The Coalition may be another contender as well.
The experience is really tight and limited in what you can do, and where you can go, so keep that expectation in mind going into this. This legitimately, and I’ve said as such before here, is what it looks like when a developer throws everything into making the graphics look as good as physically possible.
Headphones are a must, by the way. You won’t get the full experience without them. The soundscape is magnificent here.
For me, it goes like this: Hellblade 2, Alan Wake 2, and Avatar. HB2 is now the best looking game on the market (not counting the likes of Flight Simulator), and I say that with confidence. There are things here that almost look a generation ahead, such as the character models, draw distance, and textures. The animations are masterfully executed too. I wish we could easily turn off the CA, but it’s not TOO offensive here, though it would be the first thing I did disable just like every other game.
I really don’t want to come off like I’m overselling the game, or crazy biased, but I’m purely speaking from my experience so far. Hellblade 2 looks absolutely insane, and I genuinely can’t fathom how Ninja Theory pulled these visuals off with a team of, what, 80 people? The only things that will come close to this moving forward will be Death Stranding 2, whatever Naughty Dog has planned, and GTA6. The Coalition may be another contender as well.
The experience is really tight and limited in what you can do, and where you can go, so keep that expectation in mind going into this. This legitimately, and I’ve said as such before here, is what it looks like when a developer throws everything into making the graphics look as good as physically possible.
Headphones are a must, by the way. You won’t get the full experience without them. The soundscape is magnificent here.
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I believe it was actually them saying they have it running on dev machines less powerful than ps5/xsx currently, not that they had actually console ports up and running. Because in another interview they said if console ports get put into development they plan to implement crossplay.
Here's the DF interview where they are speculating about their console performance profiles and they want to try for 60 or quality/performance modes. Their answer seems to corroborate the above, that it's not in development yet otherwise they wouldn't be speculating right?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Hellblade 2 is the real deal. The game looks like the UE5 Rebirth trailer. All those rocks and pebbles look to be lifted straight from those quixel trailers. The big ones dont look as sharp but everything on the ground looks photorealistic. There are so many different kinds of rock types and they all have perfect light bounce, AO, and even reflections in some cases.
The lighting is like a gen ahead of games like plague's tale. You can see where the budget went. Callisto looks amazing but still has that gamey look while this is going for photorealism and it gets there more often than not. I love this blue-ish look that is completely removed in the night time sections where everything is lit with lightning and fire torches. the amazing GI mixes in with the fog and volumetric lighting does the rest.
speaking of fog, best use of fog ever. they dont use it to mask the draw distance which is pretty impressive in chapter 2. but the volumetric lighting here is like a gen ahead of even something like alan wake 2. the fog feels thick, it doesnt feel fake like its there to mask draw distance and the way it lights up is very impressive.
the only thing id nitpick on is the character models which look next gen at times and then fairly last gen when the camera isnt right up to their faces. when you have two character models on screen at once, they look ok at best.
Anyway, this is another one of those games that you really have to play on your tv to fully appreciate. so many details are lost in youtube compression and even gifs. the dynamic nature of its lighting also doesnt come across in screenshots. right now, after around 2 hours, id rate it above alan wake 2 and callisto. avatar is a different kind of game so kind of an unfair comparison to either game, but this game is basically what ive been waiting for since i saw the unreal engine 4 rebirth demo all those years ago.
P.S Water is phenomenal too. the game's visuals are extremely consistent in a generation where every single game has been extremely inconsistent. this is next gen like 99.9% of the time.
The lighting is like a gen ahead of games like plague's tale. You can see where the budget went. Callisto looks amazing but still has that gamey look while this is going for photorealism and it gets there more often than not. I love this blue-ish look that is completely removed in the night time sections where everything is lit with lightning and fire torches. the amazing GI mixes in with the fog and volumetric lighting does the rest.
speaking of fog, best use of fog ever. they dont use it to mask the draw distance which is pretty impressive in chapter 2. but the volumetric lighting here is like a gen ahead of even something like alan wake 2. the fog feels thick, it doesnt feel fake like its there to mask draw distance and the way it lights up is very impressive.
the only thing id nitpick on is the character models which look next gen at times and then fairly last gen when the camera isnt right up to their faces. when you have two character models on screen at once, they look ok at best.
Anyway, this is another one of those games that you really have to play on your tv to fully appreciate. so many details are lost in youtube compression and even gifs. the dynamic nature of its lighting also doesnt come across in screenshots. right now, after around 2 hours, id rate it above alan wake 2 and callisto. avatar is a different kind of game so kind of an unfair comparison to either game, but this game is basically what ive been waiting for since i saw the unreal engine 4 rebirth demo all those years ago.
P.S Water is phenomenal too. the game's visuals are extremely consistent in a generation where every single game has been extremely inconsistent. this is next gen like 99.9% of the time.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, the water in that area looks amazing. very brothers remake like. its clearly a step above the water in the pc version of rdr2.Some direct feed HB2 screens from my own Series X for
I think, on console at least, this is probably the most impressive thing I have played visually this gen so far.
what i also like about that area is how much detail they have put into the background. yes, its linear and you cant access any of it, but the draw distance is fine and the area is rendered like a playable area with all kinds of detail.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
in the timestamp, DF asks them if they are going to aim for 60 fps on consoles and he says definitely. then he says that they might just do only the performance mode because they want everyone to play the game at 60 fps.
look if this runs on a steam deck then it will run on consoles at 60 fps.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I am playing this high as fuck right now.
As far as pure viuals go, this the best looking game ever. My fuck
If graphics peak out next gen with this fidelity, but on a much more open scale, more interactivity, more enemies on screen, full control, etc, then I can die happy
As far as pure viuals go, this the best looking game ever. My fuck
If graphics peak out next gen with this fidelity, but on a much more open scale, more interactivity, more enemies on screen, full control, etc, then I can die happy
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i was thinking the same thing. we didnt get to this level of fidelity in star wars this gen but next gen? on a 30-40 tflops console? definitely possible in open world games. of course, there is no way we are getting that in a 2027 launch game or even a 2029 cross gen game. we might have to wait till 4 years after launch to get an open world game to look this good. see you in 2031.
Balducci30
Member
I’m very glad hellblade 2 exists
Doesn’t LOU 2 have comparable graphics to The Order 1886? I feel like I could be possible to get something that looks at least close to this from Naughty Dog this gen. But maybe that’s overly optimistic
JCreasy
Member
This proves my theory that just because your main character started out created from imagination doesn’t mean you can’t pivot, find a real person that looks like them, scan them, and deliver a generational leap in graphics.
This is a HINT at what a true next-gen Kratos could’ve looked like.
We were robbed.
All of PlayStation Studios needs to get on 3Lateral’s calendar.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Comparable yes, but still not quite there in terms of post processing effects, indoor textures and asset quality. It was mostly comparable to the order in cutscenes. It’s also their third game on ps4 whereas whatever they do next will be their first game on ps5.
But i suppose rockstar and naughty dog are execptions to the rule so who knows. Maybe we get 1-2 games looking like this.
DanielG165
Member
I really just cannot get over how immense HB2 looks. 99% of the time, it looks dare I say like a CGI film, that’s how good the presentation is. The first fight between Senua and the slavemaster at the beginning, when it pouring with rain, reminded much more of a scene out of an A24 movie than a video game. It’s using and squeezing every ounce from my machine, it feels like, and everything is holding up extremely well.
This is a game that you HAVE to see for yourself; compression on YouTube will destroy the image quality. It’s legitimately a generation ahead in a lot of ways, and the fact that a current gen console can run it is very, very impressive.
I agree with Slimy; we may get a select few more games that look like HB2, it won’t be a huge slew of them for this generation. This is what people were talking about when they wanted “next gen” graphics.
This is a game that you HAVE to see for yourself; compression on YouTube will destroy the image quality. It’s legitimately a generation ahead in a lot of ways, and the fact that a current gen console can run it is very, very impressive.
I agree with Slimy; we may get a select few more games that look like HB2, it won’t be a huge slew of them for this generation. This is what people were talking about when they wanted “next gen” graphics.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Matrix demo visuals in a game this gen, we actually did it
Now I’m really curious for Wolverine. In the insomniac leans they said HELLBLADE 2 visuals were a target for them
We will see
Reminder these guys have a much bigger team and budget
Now I’m really curious for Wolverine. In the insomniac leans they said HELLBLADE 2 visuals were a target for them
We will see
Reminder these guys have a much bigger team and budget
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peish
Member
Hellblade 2 is the real deal. The game looks like the UE5 Rebirth trailer. All those rocks and pebbles look to be lifted straight from those quixel trailers. The big ones dont look as sharp but everything on the ground looks photorealistic. There are so many different kinds of rock types and they all have perfect light bounce, AO, and even reflections in some cases.
The lighting is like a gen ahead of games like plague's tale. You can see where the budget went. Callisto looks amazing but still has that gamey look while this is going for photorealism and it gets there more often than not. I love this blue-ish look that is completely removed in the night time sections where everything is lit with lightning and fire torches. the amazing GI mixes in with the fog and volumetric lighting does the rest.
speaking of fog, best use of fog ever. they dont use it to mask the draw distance which is pretty impressive in chapter 2. but the volumetric lighting here is like a gen ahead of even something like alan wake 2. the fog feels thick, it doesnt feel fake like its there to mask draw distance and the way it lights up is very impressive.
the only thing id nitpick on is the character models which look next gen at times and then fairly last gen when the camera isnt right up to their faces. when you have two character models on screen at once, they look ok at best.
Anyway, this is another one of those games that you really have to play on your tv to fully appreciate. so many details are lost in youtube compression and even gifs. the dynamic nature of its lighting also doesnt come across in screenshots. right now, after around 2 hours, id rate it above alan wake 2 and callisto. avatar is a different kind of game so kind of an unfair comparison to either game, but this game is basically what ive been waiting for since i saw the unreal engine 4 rebirth demo all those years ago.
P.S Water is phenomenal too. the game's visuals are extremely consistent in a generation where every single game has been extremely inconsistent. this is next gen like 99.9% of the time.
The problem with hellblade2 is the non interactivity and invisible walls....actually FF16 has this similar fidelity in parts.
Both games feel like old school pre-rendered backdrops design
Msamy
Member
The saddest part that we are now in last 2-3 years in the life cycle of this generation and as you said all Sony studio didn't used ray tracing in their games except insomniac with reflections only , so far Sony studios are disappointed this generation.
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Team Andromeda
Member
For me Banishers is a better game but as a graphical showcase for Xbox Series X this is hard to fault more so if you have a decent TV
GymWolf
Member
He literally posted a pic of the muddy textures on the ground??
I don't have the game so i can only judge by the pics posted by you people, youtube is too compressed.
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Balducci30
Member
Yeah exactly this is what I mean - this was 80 people on a relatively small budget - im sure someone can make a game that looks close to it with more gameplay
Johnny Concrete
Member
Agreed. This one looks incredible. When looking at the footage I can't help to think "imagine a game like this where the gameplay was actually interesting".
I don't own the game myself, but I would love to take a better look at it. The footage is often dark with lots of small particles flying around, so basically a compression nightmare. Most youtube footage is completely crap. Anyone found a good 4K upload out there?
I believe that there are more contenders and more so if the bet is on games of this scale, or at least now we know that the possibilities are facts because there is already something that can be touched.
I remember only 80 people have made the game and that's usually 1/4 or less the size of a normal Studio AAA.
I already said it in another thread, the visual level, detail and effects of HB2 has made me massively raise my hopes for what UE5 can offer in this same generation and even these same consoles. What's more, now I can believe the level of fidelity of Marvel 1943.
.PS. One thing is clear, if the idea is to aim for photorealism and realistic modeling, UE5 is a perfect tool. I hope that more Studios bet on this type of artistic presentation.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
That sucks. But I don't think it's the game per se considering I don't have any black crush issues whatsoever in this game (and image quality overall is crispy clear, contextually), I mean, it's not even close, the highs and lows are rock solid.
I'm on one of the new gen UHD QD-OLED monitors using HDR via DisplayPort. I'm not an expert on color spaces/gamuts, HDR standards, etc., so unfortunately I can't tell you what kind of issue you may have.
Yeah me too, I didn't expect the game to look this good, I was even bracing for my 4090 to struggle with performance issues. However, HB2 has made me excited for future titles. And consider this: HB2 is a very early Unreal Engine 5 title from a relatively small team, and AFAIK, it doesn't even use the latest UE5 updates.
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