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[SlimySnake]

Man, I just recently started posting on GAF and this is the only thread I post in and even check. I came here in peace not wanting to start fights or arguments with anyone, just having civilized convos with like-minded people. But it is absolutely ridiculous how people wanna force their opinion on you and if you don't agree with them they jump on you like hounding dogs and call you names and other crap. This is 1st grade stuff honestly. I seriously admire SlimySnake 's composure on these forums, the guy gets attacked almost on a daily basis and he never loses it; kudos my friend.

lol ive been on forums since 2000. I have had my share of meltdowns. I lived through the early PS3 days with Sony taking one L after another. It broke me like most hardcore Sony fans. Once you hit rock bottom, the only way is up.

Some of the discourse has gotten worse in recent years, but there is always the ignore list. I take pride in the fact that nearly everyone i've put on my ignore list has either been perma'd or is on the perma watch. Just ignore and focus on people who can take criticism without resorting to personal insults.

Edit: to add to that - I like raphics. I will often choose to paly quality mode. I've finished forspoken in quality 40fps mode and it was fine. It dropped hard but 60fps mode was a vaseline filter for me.

Thats because the 60 fps version drops to 720p before being FSR's up to 1440p. Thats way too low. There are also some weird graphical glitches in the PS5 version not present in the PC version which at least has pristine image quality.

I don't mind 60fps modes and giving the gamers options but like Slimy mentioned it should come at a huge cost for the player with a lot of sacrifices, like everything is stripped down to the bones. 60fps is hella taxing and as a result it should affect the game hella not just from a graphical point of view but also from a Physics, AI, Animations POV.

There is something really weird going on with next gen consoles when it comes to 60 fps. They are not behaving like PCs where simply downgrading resolution by half nets you double the framerate. Ive been trying to figure it out ever since Guardians' 60 fps mode struggled to hit 60 fps at 1080p after several graphics downgrades despite the fact the game runs at native 4k 30 fps. No such issues on PC for similarly powered GPUs.

Way too many games have to now settle for 1080p internal resolution if they want to hit 60 fps. I figured the powerful 8 core 16 thread CPU running at 3.5 Ghz would remove all CPU bottlenecks but it could be a ram bandwidth issue.

 

[rofif]

lol ive been on forums since 2000. I have had my share of meltdowns. I lived through the early PS3 days with Sony taking one L after another. It broke me like most hardcore Sony fans. Once you hit rock bottom, the only way is up.

Some of the discourse has gotten worse in recent years, but there is always the ignore list. I take pride in the fact that nearly everyone i've put on my ignore list has either been perma'd or is on the perma watch. Just ignore and focus on people who can take criticism without resorting to personal insults.


Thats because the 60 fps version drops to 720p before being FSR's up to 1440p. Thats way too low. There are also some weird graphical glitches in the PS5 version not present in the PC version which at least has pristine image quality.

There is something really weird going on with next gen consoles when it comes to 60 fps. They are not behaving like PCs where simply downgrading resolution by half nets you double the framerate. Ive been trying to figure it out ever since Guardians' 60 fps mode struggled to hit 60 fps at 1080p after several graphics downgrades despite the fact the game runs at native 4k 30 fps. No such issues on PC for similarly powered GPUs.

Way too many games have to now settle for 1080p internal resolution if they want to hit 60 fps. I figured the powerful 8 core 16 thread CPU running at 3.5 Ghz would remove all CPU bottlenecks but it could be a ram bandwidth issue.

It doesn't drop to 720p. It can drop to 720p. It's dynamic.
I would honestly just prefer normal TAA + checkerboard. FSR only makes things worse here

 

[Cr1ptkeeper]

next-gen was TLOU2 and RDR2 in the last few years of PS4
if you think that that level of visual quality could still be achieved had they insisted on 60fps the entire generation, then I have nothing else to discuss with you let's just agree to disagree
the problem is that you think that people are against 60fps, NO! that would simply be idiotic, BUT! until a super-effective, mainstream DLSS-like solution for consoles is introduced, we can't have our cake and eat it too !

And yet, games like Star Wars Battlefront and Battlefield 1 were next gen games at 60 fps. Just compare both of those games with the PS360 generation, they are definitely a generation ahead.
If it were up to me, the quality mode of all console games should be 60 fps and if they include a performance mode it should be 120 fps.

If all games would run at a minimum of 60 fps both Sony and Microsoft would spec their next gen consoles accordingly to hit a minimum of 60 with next gen features enabled.

 

[shiru]

And yet, games like Star Wars Battlefront and Battlefield 1 were next gen games at 60 fps. Just compare both of those games with the PS360 generation, they are definitely a generation ahead.
If it were up to me, the quality mode of all console games should be 60 fps and if they include a performance mode it should be 120 fps.

If all games would run at a minimum of 60 fps both Sony and Microsoft would spec their next gen consoles accordingly to hit a minimum of 60 with next gen features enabled.

Nope. Not a single 60fps game in console history has ever looked good, or like it belongs in its respective gen. To say otherwise is to have no "standards". Real next-gen games are 15fps 900p, to think otherwise is wrong.

 

[Infested Goblin]

After Forflopen, Ragnarok, Hogwarts, and especially "current gen exclusice: Jedi Survivor gameplay showcase etc. i kinda lost any hope at this point

 

[ChiefDada]

After Forflopen, Ragnarok, Hogwarts, and especially "current gen exclusice: Jedi Survivor gameplay showcase etc. i kinda lost any hope at this point

I'm not sure why; you understand the conditions of the past few years just as well as the rest of us. It's one thing to be frustrated, but to "lose all hope" just after both platforms have all but proclaimed their retirement of cross gen going into 2023 (as it relates to first party) is strange to me.

Also,

After Forflopen

You can do better than that, and you did with the funny meme. Nice job.

 

[OCASM]

And yet, games like Star Wars Battlefront and Battlefield 1 were next gen games at 60 fps. Just compare both of those games with the PS360 generation, they are definitely a generation ahead.
If it were up to me, the quality mode of all console games should be 60 fps and if they include a performance mode it should be 120 fps.

If all games would run at a minimum of 60 fps both Sony and Microsoft would spec their next gen consoles accordingly to hit a minimum of 60 with next gen features enabled.

Battlefront was downgraded though. Doesn't look as good as the teaser:



While we're at it BF2's downgrade was even worse:

 

[H . R . 2]

ALAN WAKE 2

on a side note, do you guys think that Alan Wake 2 can achieve the visuals shown in its reveal trailer?
it does say "not actual gameplay" but I believe the trailer was in-engine if not in-game.
and that It wouldn't be unrealistic to expect AW2 to have the same level of graphics as SH2 Remake, given how advanced the Northlight Engine is
I am weirdly excited about this one especially because they have announced they are going for a pure, bona fide survival horror experience

some concept art to jog your memory of what they have in store for us with AW2

EDIT: add this to the list of things horror fans can be excited about this year:

Hi-Fi Rush, which was helmed by The Evil Within 2's director, sure seems to be teasing The Evil Within 3 - PC GAMER​

 

[OCASM]

ALAN WAKE 2

on a side note, do you guys think that Alan Wake 2 can achieve the visuals shown in its reveal trailer?
it does say "not actual gameplay" but I believe the trailer was in-engine if not in-game.
and that It wouldn't be unrealistic to expect AW2 to have the same level of graphics as SH2 Remake, given how advanced the Northlight Engine is
I am weirdly excited about this one especially because they have announced they are going for a pure, bona fide survival horror experience

some concept art to jog your memory of what they have in store for us with AW2

Remedy's engine, Northlight, had the most advanced lighting sytem last gen by far:



I think they can pull it off.

 

[alloush]

lol ive been on forums since 2000. I have had my share of meltdowns. I lived through the early PS3 days with Sony taking one L after another. It broke me like most hardcore Sony fans. Once you hit rock bottom, the only way is up.

Some of the discourse has gotten worse in recent years, but there is always the ignore list. I take pride in the fact that nearly everyone i've put on my ignore list has either been perma'd or is on the perma watch. Just ignore and focus on people who can take criticism without resorting to personal insults.


Thats because the 60 fps version drops to 720p before being FSR's up to 1440p. Thats way too low. There are also some weird graphical glitches in the PS5 version not present in the PC version which at least has pristine image quality.

There is something really weird going on with next gen consoles when it comes to 60 fps. They are not behaving like PCs where simply downgrading resolution by half nets you double the framerate. Ive been trying to figure it out ever since Guardians' 60 fps mode struggled to hit 60 fps at 1080p after several graphics downgrades despite the fact the game runs at native 4k 30 fps. No such issues on PC for similarly powered GPUs.

Way too many games have to now settle for 1080p internal resolution if they want to hit 60 fps. I figured the powerful 8 core 16 thread CPU running at 3.5 Ghz would remove all CPU bottlenecks but it could be a ram bandwidth issue.

You are a forums vet Slimy, I give you that, and I salute you for the way you deal with things. Having said that, I have been on forums myself for a while as well but sports forums, mainly futbol, and trust me when I tell you videogames forums are a child's play, they are nothing compared to futbol forums. I have developed the habit of nonchalant behavior, I don't take anything personal, grew a very thick skin and I try to calm things down when they escalate and ignore when I see no way through but I don't put anyone on the ignore list, I simply don't care.

But I digress, and to touch on your point of the bolded part, I have said the exact same thing to a friend of mine the other day. 60fps just feels weird on the next gen consoles I cannot point my finger as what it is exactly. To me it aint worth the sacrifice that we get when we switch to 60fps so I stuck with 30fps for single player story-driven games. Now I aint no tech head but if I had to venture a guess I'd say it is a ram bandwidth issue as well but this is for the experts on these boards to speculate.

 

[alloush]

ALAN WAKE 2

on a side note, do you guys think that Alan Wake 2 can achieve the visuals shown in its reveal trailer?
it does say "not actual gameplay" but I believe the trailer was in-engine if not in-game.
and that It wouldn't be unrealistic to expect AW2 to have the same level of graphics as SH2 Remake, given how advanced the Northlight Engine is
I am weirdly excited about this one especially because they have announced they are going for a pure, bona fide survival horror experience

some concept art to jog your memory of what they have in store for us with AW2

The trailer looked hella good. If the game matches the trailer visually then that would be mega.

 

[alloush]

Next-gen Decima with new rendering and lighting systems, Metahuman from Unreal.

Judging by these quotes from the actress and Kojima the final game should look way better than what we saw in the DS2 trailer, which already looked outstanding.

https://www.gamesradar.com/elle-fan...-2-is-taking-mocap-technology-to-a-new-level/






New lighting techniques being used in Decima, curious to see if this will be some sort of fully dynamic global illumination system or even RTGI.

Why is this post not getting the love it deserves? This is so exciting. The other day I also posted something about Kojima talking about how he wants to take things to the next level graphically. Now this is a dev I am eager to see what he does with these next gen machines.

 

[arkhamguy123]

ALAN WAKE 2

on a side note, do you guys think that Alan Wake 2 can achieve the visuals shown in its reveal trailer?
it does say "not actual gameplay" but I believe the trailer was in-engine if not in-game.
and that It wouldn't be unrealistic to expect AW2 to have the same level of graphics as SH2 Remake, given how advanced the Northlight Engine is
I am weirdly excited about this one especially because they have announced they are going for a pure, bona fide survival horror experience

some concept art to jog your memory of what they have in store for us with AW2

EDIT: add this to the list of things horror fans can be excited about this year:

Hi-Fi Rush, which was helmed by The Evil Within 2's director, sure seems to be teasing The Evil Within 3 - PC GAMER​

Gotta run on Series S though :/

I've given up hope of multiplat next gen only games blowing me away. Dead Space, Redfall, Forza 8 and oh my fucking god the new Star Wars game just nailed in my coffin there. I think we'll only see holy shit graphics from PS5 exclusives this gen.

But I'd love to be wrong. Wonder Woman, Alan Wake 2, and Starfield may destroy my hypothesis. Or they may not. We'll see.

 

[H . R . 2]

also Hogwarts Legacy graphics look quite good albeit at times a bit inconsistent
but some of the faces are great
I think what helps them pop is lighting though
the eyes are the only minus

PC images:

courtesy of DSOgaming

but it's odd that we are 3 years into the current-gen and a game like Hogwarts has only managed to achieve AC:U [released in 2014] level of visuals


see for yourself:

these are screenshots captured on my own PS4 [low-res]
and that the main character's outfit consists of just some random items I put together myself, yet clothes have incredible detail, , whether its Arno or a random NPC

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

LOL first off , it's absurd how aggressive some of you guys are in imposing your opinions on others. are you suggesting I do not have an opinion of my own?
second
by true next-gen I mean 'late-gen' when hardware is so pushed to its limits that we and devs have to pick between fps and res/graphics.
plus what 'Next-gen' means differs from one player to another so instead of belittling others' opinions maybe hear them out first
what you guys fail to understand is that we too wish we could have both but the truth is that in a few years devs won't be able to push the engine and the consoles to their limits AND achieve 60 fps all at the same time [not until a fully-functional mainstream upscaling solution is introduced]
the only reason why I refuse to consider a beautiful game like R&C as truly next-gen is because I believe a toned-down version of that game could be played on ps4 too, albeit with some compromises
the same way HFW was also developed for ps4

If Ratchet isn't the next gen benchmark for you then what is? Ratchet in its 30 fps mode is the most impressive game this generation so far. It was one of only a few games actually designed around the ps5 and it shows. Sure, they could make a drastically scaled down ps4 pro version but that seems like a too high a bar for what constitutes a next gen game because the only thing we have that can't be scaled down is probably the Matrix demo.

Ratchet seems to actually be tapping into the CPU power with all the dynamic elements happening on screen, it had great RT reflections, and we know they've utilized the ssd's as well (not just for the galaxy hopping but for texture streaming, like FW). You gotta give Insomniac a little credit here they actually tried and succeeded with this game. This and Demon's Souls I can't see running on ps4 pro and looking respectable. Too great a use of tesselation and soft shadows in demon's, something we never saw on ps4 pro.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

You are a forums vet Slimy, I give you that, and I salute you for the way you deal with things. Having said that, I have been on forums myself for a while as well but sports forums, mainly futbol, and trust me when I tell you videogames forums are a child's play, they are nothing compared to futbol forums. I have developed the habit of nonchalant behavior, I don't take anything personal, grew a very thick skin and I try to calm things down when they escalate and ignore when I see no way through but I don't put anyone on the ignore list, I simply don't care.

But I digress, and to touch on your point of the bolded part, I have said the exact same thing to a friend of mine the other day. 60fps just feels weird on the next gen consoles I cannot point my finger as what it is exactly. To me it aint worth the sacrifice that we get when we switch to 60fps so I stuck with 30fps for single player story-driven games. Now I aint no tech head but if I had to venture a guess I'd say it is a ram bandwidth issue as well but this is for the experts on these boards to speculate.

60 fps does not feel "weird" on these consoles. 60 fps feels like 60 fps, unless it has an uneven fps.

 

[H . R . 2]

If Ratchet isn't the next gen benchmark for you then what is? Ratchet in its 30 fps mode is the most impressive game this generation so far. It was one of only a few games actually designed around the ps5 and it shows. Sure, they could make a drastically scaled down ps4 pro version but that seems like a too high a bar for what constitutes a next gen game because the only thing we have that can't be scaled down is probably the Matrix demo.

Ratchet seems to actually be tapping into the CPU power with all the dynamic elements happening on screen, it had great RT reflections, and we know they've utilized the ssd's as well (not just for the galaxy hopping but for texture streaming, like FW). You gotta give Insomniac a little credit here they actually tried and succeeded with this game. This and Demon's Souls I can't see running on ps4 pro and looking respectable. Too great a use of tesselation and soft shadows in demon's, something we never saw on ps4 pro.

it is indeed a gorgeous game and at times astonishing but in my humble opinion it is far from the game with generation-defining visuals that we have come to expect from a next-gen first-party title
last-gen we had games like Ryse , The Order 1886, AC:Unity, Infamous SS, KZ Shadowfall all in the first 2 years,
games that were and can still look just as beautiful as R&C [considering the hardware limitations of their time] and that is without taking into account late-gen games such as RDR2 and TLOU2.
so my bar might be too high for current-gen devs but I didn't set it myself. they themselves did
I believe next-gen has not even begun yet

 

[RaduN]

Nope. Not a single 60fps game in console history has ever looked good, or like it belongs in its respective gen. To say otherwise is to have no "standards". Real next-gen games are 15fps 900p, to think otherwise is wrong.

What in the name of duck?

You started playing console games in 2020 man?

 

[H . R . 2]

What in the name of duck?

You started playing console games in 2020 man?

he's trolling
let him be

 

[OCASM]

W

Why is this post not getting the love it deserves? This is so exciting. The other day I also posted something about Kojima talking about how he wants to take things to the next level graphically. Now this is a dev I am eager to see what he does with these next gen machines.

Well, the DS2 trailer looked nice but not really "next-gen nice". They now have variable penumbra shadows and much more geometric detail but lighting and shading wise it looks about the same as DS1. Fabrics in particular still look like cheap plastic for some reason.

 

[RaduN]

also Hogwarts Legacy graphics look quite good albeit at times a bit inconsistent
but some of the faces are great
I think what helps them pop is lighting though
the eyes are the only minus

PC images:

courtesy of DSOgaming

Those dead souless eyes...damn.

No amount of tehnical advancements will make up for shitty artists, never ever.

 

[TheRedRiders]

W

Why is this post not getting the love it deserves? This is so exciting. The other day I also posted something about Kojima talking about how he wants to take things to the next level graphically. Now this is a dev I am eager to see what he does with these next gen machines.

Thank you. I was expecting it to spark some discussion given the nature of this thread but oh well...

All that being said, Kojima and his team really elevated the Decima engine with Death Stranding, introducing new rendering techniques like photogrammetry and new shaders for foliage and moss, even the water rendering technique on DS Director's Cut looks impressive. It's likely Horizon Forbidden West made use of these methods as well as pushing Decima further just like Kojima did.

It's cool to see that Kojima and his team are still passionate about graphics, I think Death Stranding 2 will be a next-gen benchmark, especially when it comes to facial and character animations, Kojima also likely wants to build massively upon the hyper-realism of DS 1. I'm personally hoping they finally start using the next-gen geometry shaders (Primitive and Mesh Shaders), because no game as of now is using Nanite or any other micro-polygon rendering system and it's my favourite visual feature of next-gen, much more so that RT and other dynamic lighting systems.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

LOL first off , it's absurd how aggressive some of you guys are in imposing your opinions on others. are you suggesting I do not have an opinion of my own?
second
by true next-gen I mean 'late-gen' when hardware is so pushed to its limits that we and devs have to pick between fps and res/graphics.
plus what 'Next-gen' means differs from one player to another so instead of belittling others' opinions maybe hear them out first
what you guys fail to understand is that we too wish we could have both but the truth is that in a few years devs won't be able to push the engine and the consoles to their limits AND achieve 60 fps all at the same time [not until a fully-functional mainstream upscaling solution is introduced]
the only reason why I refuse to consider a beautiful game like R&C as truly next-gen is because I believe a toned-down version of that game could be played on ps4 too, albeit with some compromises
the same way HFW was also developed for ps4

If Ratchet isn't the next gen benchmark for you then what is? Ratchet in its 30 fps mode is the most impressive game this generation so far. It was one of only a few games actually designed around the ps5 and it shows. Sure, they could make a drastically scaled down ps4 pro version but that seems like a too high a bar for what constitutes a next gen game because the only thing we have that can't be scaled down is probably the Matrix demo.

Ratchet seems to actually be tapping into the CPU power with all the dynamic elements happening on screen, it had great RT reflections, and we know they've utilized the ssd's as well (not just for the galaxy hopping but for texture streaming, like FW). You gotta give Insomniac a little credit here they actually tried and succeeded with this game. This and Demon's Souls I can't see running on ps4 pro

lol ive been on forums since 2000. I have had my share of meltdowns. I lived through the early PS3 days with Sony taking one L after another. It broke me like most hardcore Sony fans. Once you hit rock bottom, the only way is up.

Some of the discourse has gotten worse in recent years, but there is always the ignore list. I take pride in the fact that nearly everyone i've put on my ignore list has either been perma'd or is on the perma watch. Just ignore and focus on people who can take criticism without resorting to personal insults.


Thats because the 60 fps version drops to 720p before being FSR's up to 1440p. Thats way too low. There are also some weird graphical glitches in the PS5 version not present in the PC version which at least has pristine image quality.

There is something really weird going on with next gen consoles when it comes to 60 fps. They are not behaving like PCs where simply downgrading resolution by half nets you double the framerate. Ive been trying to figure it out ever since Guardians' 60 fps mode struggled to hit 60 fps at 1080p after several graphics downgrades despite the fact the game runs at native 4k 30 fps. No such issues on PC for similarly powered GPUs.

Way too many games have to now settle for 1080p internal resolution if they want to hit 60 fps. I figured the powerful 8 core 16 thread CPU running at 3.5 Ghz would remove all CPU bottlenecks but it could be a ram bandwidth issue.

This is what I've been saying for a year and a half, but in a slightly different way, because EVERY game from last gen that received a next gen upgrade has been disappointing. 1440p/60 without even running at PC ultra settings is the best we've come to expect. If these consoles were as powerful as they were supposed to be on paper, these next gen versions would be much better. Control, Cyberpunk, Uncharted 4, gta 5 remastered etc etc all below expectation. Some of these games ps5 versions even saw extra dev time devoted to them.

Then there's things like anisotropic filtering not being 16x in a lot of games which points to a possible ram issue too. I was just looking at the Demon's Souls thread from November 11th and so many people were saying "if this looks this good now imagine where we'll be two years from now!"

 

[arkhamguy123]

Well, the DS2 trailer looked nice but not really "next-gen nice". They now have variable penumbra shadows and much more geometric detail but lighting and shading wise it looks about the same as DS1. Fabrics in particular still look like cheap plastic for some reason.

Bro... the characters were nigh photorealistic what more do you want? DS2 I don't think is like the Zenith of graphics yet but it was finally, FINALLY something that looked like "hm yeah this is flexing on my $500 purchase okay."

 

[arkhamguy123]

also Hogwarts Legacy graphics look quite good albeit at times a bit inconsistent
but some of the faces are great
I think what helps them pop is lighting though
the eyes are the only minus

PC images:

courtesy of DSOgaming

but it's odd that we are 3 years into the current-gen and a game like Hogwarts has only managed to achieve AC:U [released in 2014] level of visuals


see for yourself:

these are screenshots captured on my own PS4 [low-res]
and that the main character's outfit consists of just some random items I put together myself, yet clothes have incredible detail, , whether its Arno or a random NPC

You know this gen has been awful when we're praising washed out looking PS360 gen tier titles like Hogwarts Legacy

 

[SlimySnake]

I was just looking at the Demon's Souls thread from November 11th and so many people were saying "if this looks this good now imagine where we'll be two years from now!"

Two years from now:

P.S I was called chicken little on this forum and told im always overreacting after every underwhelming Sony and MS conference. I called this two years ago when I looked at the fact that all the Sony and MS games were cross gen and there was nothing on the horizon. Well, here we are in 2023 and our next gen only games look worse than last gen games.

 

[arkhamguy123]

To me, three games this gen are worthy of praise, Demon Souls, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, and Horizon 2 Forbidden West.

I think Demon Souls and Ratchet approach a sort of cgi pre rendered sheen. Horizon 2 kinda has that sheen to but to a lesser degree in my eyes. I did a looooong play session of demon souls recently, like hours, love that game. Then switched to horizon 2 right after to mix it up and my first thought was "oh yep. This is a PS4 game." Something about it. Maybe the geometry or lighting? Not sure but my brain and my eyes registered demon souls as a tier above.

 

[H . R . 2]

Thank you. I was expecting it to spark some discussion given the nature of this thread but oh well...

All that being said, Kojima and his team really elevated the Decima engine with Death Stranding, introducing new rendering techniques like photogrammetry and new shaders for foliage and moss, even the water rendering technique on DS Director's Cut looks impressive. It's likely Horizon Forbidden West made use of these methods as well as pushing Decima further just like Kojima did.

It's cool to see that Kojima and his team are still passionate about graphics, I think Death Stranding 2 will be a next-gen benchmark, especially when it comes to facial and character animations, Kojima also likely wants to build massively upon the hyper-realism of DS 1. I'm personally hoping they finally start using the next-gen geometry shaders (Primitive and Mesh Shaders), because no game as of now is using Nanite or any other micro-polygon rendering system and it's my favourite visual feature of next-gen, much more so that RT and other dynamic lighting systems.

in my opinion, the only shortcoming of DS1 was its gameplay animations. they still felt as stiff as those of MGSV which, I get it, it's Kojima's intentional way of animating characters in-game but sadly It was immersion-breaking at times

To me, three games this gen are worthy of praise, Demon Souls, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, and Horizon 2 Forbidden West.

I think Demon Souls and Ratchet approach a sort of cgi pre rendered sheen. Horizon 2 kinda has that sheen to but to a lesser degree in my eyes. I did a looooong play session of demon souls recently, like hours, love that game. Then switched to horizon 2 right after to mix it up and my first thought was "oh yep. This is a PS4 game." Something about it. Maybe the geometry or lighting? Not sure but my brain and my eyes registered demon souls as a tier above.

I believe it's the more tightly controlled art direction of DS that sets it apart from an open-world game like HFW that has far too many visual variables

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Thank you. I was expecting it to spark some discussion given the nature of this thread but oh well...

All that being said, Kojima and his team really elevated the Decima engine with Death Stranding, introducing new rendering techniques like photogrammetry and new shaders for foliage and moss, even the water rendering technique on DS Director's Cut looks impressive. It's likely Horizon Forbidden West made use of these methods as well as pushing Decima further just like Kojima did.

It's cool to see that Kojima and his team are still passionate about graphics, I think Death Stranding 2 will be a next-gen benchmark, especially when it comes to facial and character animations, Kojima also likely wants to build massively upon the hyper-realism of DS 1. I'm personally hoping they finally start using the next-gen geometry shaders (Primitive and Mesh Shaders), because no game as of now is using Nanite or any other micro-polygon rendering system and it's my favourite visual feature of next-gen, much more so that RT and other dynamic lighting systems.

I wonder if Kojima and Guerilla are still sharing their engines in the sense that they both have access to the same improvements, or, after they initially gave the engine to Kojima did both companies brach off from one another. It would be great if it's the former of the two.

Speaking of tech, I want to see tesselation continue to be used more in games. It gave demon's Souls such a depth and richness to its environment and textures that helped make it feel "next gen". Do we know which other games have used tesselation liberally like that? God of War Ragnarok uses it. I feel like it should be in every game. I think Returnal has tesselation as well.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Two years from now:

P.S I was called chicken little on this forum and told im always overreacting after every underwhelming Sony and MS conference. I called this two years ago when I looked at the fact that all the Sony and MS games were cross gen and there was nothing on the horizon. Well, here we are in 2023 and our next gen only games look worse than last gen games.

The funny thing is the foliage density is honestly kind of impressive/decent. But the foliage assets and textures legit look like PS360 gen. Or like a high end Nintendo wii title.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Bro... the characters were nigh photorealistic what more do you want? DS2 I don't think is like the Zenith of graphics yet but it was finally, FINALLY something that looked like "hm yeah this is flexing on my $500 purchase okay."

DS2 looks stunning, seems like from Kojima's comments plus others that it's still balls deep in production, especially on the visual side of things.

That makes me wonder, Is DS2 gameplay going to be the "Uncharted 4 reveal moment" of this generation?

 

[arkhamguy123]

Two years from now:

P.S I was called chicken little on this forum and told im always overreacting after every underwhelming Sony and MS conference. I called this two years ago when I looked at the fact that all the Sony and MS games were cross gen and there was nothing on the horizon. Well, here we are in 2023 and our next gen only games look worse than last gen games.

There there, Starfield and Spider-Man 2 come out this year. They will save us.

Also this year we get a PS showcase which I expect will show us some UE5 ruins demo/Matrix demo visuals. A lot of the playstation first party AAA boys are ready to show off their new games this year I reckon.

 

[OCASM]

Thank you. I was expecting it to spark some discussion given the nature of this thread but oh well...

All that being said, Kojima and his team really elevated the Decima engine with Death Stranding, introducing new rendering techniques like photogrammetry and new shaders for foliage and moss, even the water rendering technique on DS Director's Cut looks impressive. It's likely Horizon Forbidden West made use of these methods as well as pushing Decima further just like Kojima did.

It's cool to see that Kojima and his team are still passionate about graphics, I think Death Stranding 2 will be a next-gen benchmark, especially when it comes to facial and character animations, Kojima also likely wants to build massively upon the hyper-realism of DS 1. I'm personally hoping they finally start using the next-gen geometry shaders (Primitive and Mesh Shaders), because no game as of now is using Nanite or any other micro-polygon rendering system and it's my favourite visual feature of next-gen, much more so that RT and other dynamic lighting systems.

The first thing they should do is add back the high-quality AO that was present in the first teaser trailer. The final game looked very flat due to the lack of it:

 

[anthraticus]

Go outside.

I was good with PS3 level graphics. AAA needs to make games that are actually interesting....not dumbed down shit for everybody & their gramdmas.

 

[H . R . 2]

The funny thing is the foliage density is honestly kind of impressive/decent. But the foliage assets and textures legit look like PS360 gen. Or like a high end Nintendo wii title.

you want foliage density with quality textures, have a look at HFW

 

[TheRedRiders]

in my opinion, the only shortcoming of DS1 was its gameplay animations. they still felt as stiff as those of MGSV which, I get it, it's Kojima's intentional way of animating characters in-game but sadly It was immersion-breaking at times

I've grown used to it since MSGV honestly but I could understand how it bothers some.

I wonder if Kojima and Guerilla are still sharing their engines in the sense that they both have access to the same improvements, or, after they initially gave the engine to Kojima did both companies brach off from one another. It would be great if it's the former of the two.

Based off of this shot from the DS2 trailer I would guess so. Sony's ICE team has likely been disbanded now (not based of solid information but just my hunch). It would be in the interest of both Guerrilla and Kojima Productions to collaborate on the Decima engine feature set so they both can take advantage of it in their respective titles.

Speaking of tech, I want to see tesselation continue to be used more in games. It gave demon's Souls such a depth and richness to its environment and textures that helped make it feel "next gen". Do we know which other games have used tesselation liberally like that? God of War Ragnarok uses it. I feel like it should be in every game. I think Returnal has tesselation as well.

Agreed, still one one of my favourite features however it does take a decent hit on performance, but it's also easier to code tessellation using Primitive and Mesh Shaders, and there's less overhead. It's definitely a feature we'll be seeing used more and more on next-gen exclusives. I know GOW makes use of it, and they're using a new technique for snow deformation. HFW snow deformation looks just as good and the geometric detail is impressive, so my hunch is it's using tessellation as well but there's no official source for this.

 

[H . R . 2]

The first thing they should do is add back the high-quality AO that was present in the first teaser trailer. The final game looked very flat due to the lack of it:

exactly but I think that trailer was made before he started utilising Decima , am I wrong?

 

[arkhamguy123]

you want foliage density with quality textures, have a look at HFW

Horizon 3 is going to be holy shit levels of graphically impressive.

 

[TheRedRiders]

you want foliage density with quality textures, have a look at HFW

I stop every two minutes whilst I'm playing this game and just appreciate what I'm looking at, it's so dam gorgeous.

The first thing they should do is add back the high-quality AO that was present in the first teaser trailer. The final game looked very flat due to the lack of it:

Sticks out like a sore thumb now that you mention it lol

 

[H . R . 2]

Horizon 3 is going to be holy shit levels of graphically impressive.

if they keep pushing, that is ! most devs nowadays seem to be resting on their laurels and, in my opinion, have become spoilt by the sheer amount of power made available to them by the current-gen systems.
it's as if they don't feel challenged anymore

 

[arkhamguy123]

I really wanna see bluepoints, bend, sucker punches PS5 games.

ND has let me down with that PS4 ass part 1 remake and they seem hellbent on just being the last of us studio so I'm not super super excited about their future exploits.

Also SSM next gen only game I have very high hopes for. And then lets see who else? Housemarque is not a graphical powerhouse. The new guys, Firesprite is a big team working on a big secret single player thing. And I wanna say thats UE5? They're unproven but perhaps could break out as one of the more technically proficient first party studios.

 

[SlimySnake]

There there, Starfield and Spider-Man 2 come out this year. They will save us.

Also this year we get a PS showcase which I expect will show us some UE5 ruins demo/Matrix demo visuals. A lot of the playstation first party AAA boys are ready to show off their new games this year I reckon.

yeah, two games though in the 3rd year of the gen? eh.

I was mostly referring 2022 as being the a dud of a year for next gen only games and it turned out to be true.

And yeah, im hoping they show up around E3 this year so we can at least see what they have in store for 2025 and beyond. i have no hope for 2024 beyond maybe 1-2 games like Hellbalde 2 and Death Stranding 2.

 

[alloush]

60 fps does not feel "weird" on these consoles. 60 fps feels like 60 fps, unless it has an uneven fps.

That's the thing, I cannot point my finger as to what is weird about it if that makes sense. Maybe the fact the game gets downgraded graphically that makes me go "hmm, yeah something is odd".

Well, the DS2 trailer looked nice but not really "next-gen nice". They now have variable penumbra shadows and much more geometric detail but lighting and shading wise it looks about the same as DS1. Fabrics in particular still look like cheap plastic for some reason.

To be honest, DS1 looked amazing. I haven't played it myself so cannot comment on how it looked on a TV screen, but if videos are anything to go by that game looked fire. Not to mention the article says this is far from how Kojima is aiming to make it look visually. So if the DS2 trailer isn't even close to the final version of how Kojima is shaping it up graphically then holy crap we are in for a treat.

Thank you. I was expecting it to spark some discussion given the nature of this thread but oh well...

All that being said, Kojima and his team really elevated the Decima engine with Death Stranding, introducing new rendering techniques like photogrammetry and new shaders for foliage and moss, even the water rendering technique on DS Director's Cut looks impressive. It's likely Horizon Forbidden West made use of these methods as well as pushing Decima further just like Kojima did.

It's cool to see that Kojima and his team are still passionate about graphics, I think Death Stranding 2 will be a next-gen benchmark, especially when it comes to facial and character animations, Kojima also likely wants to build massively upon the hyper-realism of DS 1. I'm personally hoping they finally start using the next-gen geometry shaders (Primitive and Mesh Shaders), because no game as of now is using Nanite or any other micro-polygon rendering system and it's my favourite visual feature of next-gen, much more so that RT and other dynamic lighting systems.

Yeah I read your article and there was spark in my eyes, more so the fact this is coming from a world wide dev renowned for his visual works in the gaming industry, after all the doom and gloom we been getting from devs this gen so far, so my enthusiasm could be excused. And the fact the article mentioned that the game is still in its early stages graphically and that Kojima wants to push the boundaries visually made me giggle like a fat kid at a candy store as the trailer already looked amazing.

I just hope GG are also benefitting from the improvements and tools that Kojima and his team are introducing to the Decima engine and that whatever they are adding/improving isn't exclusive to Kojima's team, that would be epic.

Glad Kojima and his team are always pushing for CGI-like visuals, it gives me hope.

That bolded part though. One can dream!

 

[OCASM]

Bro... the characters were nigh photorealistic what more do you want? DS2 I don't think is like the Zenith of graphics yet but it was finally, FINALLY something that looked like "hm yeah this is flexing on my $500 purchase okay."

They looked gamey to me. High-end gamey but still gamey.

exactly but I think that trailer was made before he started utilising Decima , am I wrong?

Yep. I wonder what engine was it.

To be honest, DS1 looked amazing. I haven't played it myself so cannot comment on how it looked on a TV screen, but if videos are anything to go by that game looked fire. Not to mention the article says this is far from how Kojima is aiming to make it look visually. So if the DS2 trailer isn't even close to the final version of how Kojima is shaping it up graphically then holy crap we are in for a treat.

Hoping for the best but considering how this generation has developed I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Lethal01]

Thank you. I was expecting it to spark some discussion given the nature of this thread but oh well...

Sorry but there isn't really anything in your post, it's really just "Developer you like says his next game will look better than his old game because of new stuff" you really thought that was something notable that would spark discussion?

 

[CGNoire]

They looked gamey to me. High-end gamey but still gamey.


Yep. I wonder what engine was it.


Hoping for the best but considering how this generation has developed I'm not holding my breath.

Not just gamey but straight up like dlc characters for DS1. Zero upgrade outside of maybe sss. I have no idea what emperors cloths people are responding too.

Infact theres really only 3 shots that looked better than DS1 and those where the desert with its large group of characters all with cloth sim and some truly awesome looking sand, the mech with its polygon count and shading quality (the fluid is almost certainly precanned for cutscene) and the shot of her jogging toward the unicycle showcased enviroment complexeity on the ground in excess of DS1. Outside of that looked like ps4 dlc. I dont think alot of those commenting on it have actually played DS1.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Sorry but there isn't really anything in your post, it's really just "Developer you like says his next game will look better than his old game because of new stuff" you really thought that was something notable that would spark discussion?

The last few posts on here already prove how pointless your reply was lol

 

[Lethal01]

The last few posts on here already prove how pointless your reply was lol

How? there is really nothing to be drawn from what's been said. The articles say nothing we didn't know, unless the discussion you want is, "maybe Kojima's next game will look good, I'm glad he wants to make games that look good.", "his previous gamers sure looked good".

 

[TheRedRiders]

How? there is really nothing to be drawn from what's been said. The articles say nothing we didn't know, unless the discussion you want is, "maybe Kojima's next game will look good, I'm glad he wants to make games that look good.", "his previous gamers sure looked good".

Not entirely true. There was some tech related information in there which warranted fruitful discussion, and it's a nice change up from constantly bitching about cross-gen graphics. But I'll entertain you anyway:

First point is basically Kojima saying that the game is deep in production, especially on the visual side of things. Which is curious because the visuals looked pretty solid in the DS2 trailer last year but it seems Kojima is expecting the graphics to look much better in the final product. (see what I did there.)

Second point worthy of discussion is the facial and character animations, the fact that Hollywood actors are being blown away by the face capture technology this game is using, and Kojima replying with (and I'm heavily paraphrasing here) "you aint seen nothing yet". We know they're using Metahuman from Epic, and it's the only game that I'm aware of right now that will be making use of it.

The third point worthy of discussion is Kojima saying they're using new technologies not used in the previous game, especially lighting. We know the game is a PS5 exclusive so these new rendering systems they're going to use are likely next-gen only.

I think I've made my point here with an autistic friendly reply as to why we're discussing graphics in a graphics related thread.

 

[rofif]

Two years from now:

P.S I was called chicken little on this forum and told im always overreacting after every underwhelming Sony and MS conference. I called this two years ago when I looked at the fact that all the Sony and MS games were cross gen and there was nothing on the horizon. Well, here we are in 2023 and our next gen only games look worse than last gen games.

I think this game looks so fucking good, I am not even joking.
I took around 100 screenshots when playing this. The game is a looker. Maybe more artistically so, rather than technically but assets and volumetric surely do not feel last gen.
And looks so much better with HDR on a tv.

my ps5 shots