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[SlimySnake]

Outside of the underwater lighting system which is more realistic to California water than that clear tropical Bahamas bullshit in the E3 build, it's not much of a difference

Im talking about the reveal trailer, not the gameplay demo. Check the video in my link.

 

[CGNoire]

Outside of the underwater lighting system which is more realistic to California water than that clear tropical Bahamas bullshit in the E3 build, it's not much of a difference

Seriously its a Huge downgrade. Lighting, density of objects, effects, complexity of shaders all downgraded. Shit was never gonna look like the left side while cross gen.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Outside of the underwater lighting system which is more realistic to California water than that clear tropical Bahamas bullshit in the E3 build, it's not much of a difference

Uno

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Devs simply have to go back to the drawing board and utilize new design paradigms like Lumens and Nanite to get more out of these consoles. PS5 might only have 5-8x more raw graphics horsepower, but the xbox series x? Thats 9x more in raw tflops and almost 15x more in raw GPU performance. way more than the 5x boost from x360 to x1. Right now, all of that is being used to increase framerates and resolutions, but eventually devs will have to sacrifice, yes sacrifice resolution and framerate for visual fidelity, physics, new AI routines, and other simulations. Ratchet runs at native 4k 45-50 fps on PS5. Matrix runs at roughly 1200p to 1440p 25-30 fps and looks a generation ahead of it. All CG is rendered at 1080p in 4k movies nowadays and still looks leagues ahead of native 4k games. Thats what video games need to do and you will start to see true next gen fidelity.

Dos

 

[Hunnybun]

I must be the only one who's more impressed with the final game than that reveal trailer of HFW.

I mean, I accept that it's technically been downgraded, but I was underwhelmed by that reveal even at the time. Whereas playing the game I'm often astounded by how good it looks.

It certainly looks nicer on my 65" OLED than that Matrix demo, with its horrible frame rate and poor image quality.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

I mean, I accept that it's technically been downgraded, but I was underwhelmed by that reveal even at the time. Whereas playing the game I'm often astounded by how good it looks.

Hunnybun, this logically don't even make sense man. I'm sure the retail game looks good while playing, but it would of looked way better if it was technically on the level of the E3 demo.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Im pretty damm sure the e3 footage for both TLOU2 and GOT where never running on even a pro.

Demo footage will sometimes have a disclaimer "captured" on a PS4/PS4 Pro/PS5, etc. Note how you could capture video of a game rendered off a PC/high-powered dev unit played back on a commercial console and saying "captured" wouldn't be a lie.

I have no proof that that's what happens, but I know I'm not the only one who is suspicious

 

[ChiefDada]

1. It's not an E3 demo, rather State of Play

2. The difference between demo and retail versions appears to be largely cosmetic/artistic choice with more vibrant color tones used for the demo.

3. Horizon Burning Shores visuals will go above and beyond fidelity level of HFW, and the usual suspects in this thread will swear it looks the same. That's just the way things go around here.

 

[Musilla]

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Outside of the underwater lighting system which is more realistic to California water than that clear tropical Bahamas bullshit in the E3 build, it's not much of a difference

Yeah, this game clearly was going for that realistic look and feel.

 

[CGNoire]

Demo footage will sometimes have a disclaimer "captured" on a PS4/PS4 Pro/PS5, etc. Note how you could capture video of a game rendered off a PC/high-powered dev unit played back on a commercial console and saying "captured" wouldn't be a lie.

I have no proof that that's what happens, but I know I'm not the only one who is suspicious

Im personally certain thats it.
They would love to write "rendered in realtime on (insert console)" and there would be zero hesitation to do so if it where actually true.

I just really wish gamers would wake up to the fact already that half of all marketing is word play.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

This is the only game I've seen so far that actually technically looks on another level to me.

The fucking geometry is crazy.

The sword effects are casting light and shadows.

Accurate rim lighting in the hair. Check out the geometry on the floor.

Really good visual effects here, I thought games forgot about this.

Cloth animation physics. They are even doing animation on the folds of the facial skin on the faces.

Accurate materials.. Again, the shadowing is the best I've seen.

If this is quality at retail then this is definitely up there with the Matrix man, crazy.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

 

[Nafeken]

Cyberpunk 2077 is still 2023 graphical top notch
Actual Screenshots from my Gameplay Session on Pc

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

I was going to post some gifs, but I ain't trying to get shit on by M Musilla aka 20/5 vision.

 

[Hunnybun]

Hunnybun, this logically don't even make sense man. I'm sure the retail game looks good while playing, but it would of looked way better if it was technically on the level of the E3 demo.

Yes but that's not what I said. I said I'm more impressed by the game as it actually is than the collection of cutscenes in the reveal.

Maybe I'm just uniquely bad at imagining how games would look from cutscenes, but for me that Horizon trailer simply wasn't impressive. The gameplay reveal was, and playing the final product also is.

 

[Musilla]

I was going to post some gifs, but I ain't trying to get shit on by M Musilla aka 20/5 vision.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Yes but that's not what I said. I said I'm more impressed by the game as it actually is than the collection of cutscenes in the reveal.

Maybe I'm just uniquely bad at imagining how games would look from cutscenes, but for me that Horizon trailer simply wasn't impressive. The gameplay reveal was, and playing the final product also is.

Hunnybun, I don't really follow this video game shit anymore man lol, you gotta help me out. You're talking about this trailer posted by SlimySnake ?


At 1:41, is that underwater level actually in the game? The quality is ridiculous.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

The first gif I spotted a lot of that detail, but the second one I totally didn't catch it lol; Look at all that juicy lighting accurately bouncing into the geometry on the ground in the second gif.

I wouldn't even noticed this without M Musilla , but the damn dog in the background getting the hell out of the way is fucking hilarious.

 

[SlimySnake]

At 1:41, is that underwater level actually in the game? The quality is ridiculous.

The underwater lighting is gone. Sunlight simply doesn’t penetrate through. The massive fish congregations are heavily downgraded. There is no swan diving into the water to catch fish. The graphics fidelity of every single model including the swan, aloys character model, the foliage in the final shot, everything feels like it was prerendered. Way bigger downgrade than tlou2 and even more inexcusable because this was releasing on ps5. Should’ve never been downgraded. Just downgrade the fucking resolution from native 4k instead.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

The underwater lighting is gone. Sunlight simply doesn’t penetrate through. The massive fish congregations are heavily downgraded. There is no swan diving into the water to catch fish. The graphics fidelity of every single model including the swan, aloys character model, the foliage in the final shot, everything feels like it was prerendered. Way bigger downgrade than tlou2 and even more inexcusable because this was releasing on ps5. Should’ve never been downgraded. Just downgrade the fucking resolution from native 4k instead.

Lol I was about to say. The bow physics in her archery bag is still ass like in a gif I remember seeing on here from the retail game but everything else like the caustics, subsurface light bouncing and shadows drawing across all those different meshes I was like "ain't no fucking way".

 

[Musilla]

The first gif I spotted a lot of that detail, but the second one I totally didn't catch it lol; Look at all that juicy lighting accurately bouncing into the geometry on the ground in the second gif.

I wouldn't even noticed this without M Musilla , but the damn dog in the background getting the hell out of the way is fucking hilarious.

Only DS has that level of geometry, maybe even higher

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Only DS has that level of geometry, maybe even higher

Thres

 

[nemiroff]

Uhm, wat.. Maybe it's just me that have gone crazy or have lost my eyesight somehow, but FF16 almost looks bog standard. Don't get me wrong, it looks..nice, but come on now, lol.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Uhm, wat.. Maybe it's just me that have gone crazy or have lost my eyesight somehow, but FF16 almost looks bog standard. Don't get me wrong, it looks..nice, but come on now, lol.

Cuarto

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Final Fantasy XVI actually overall has better geometry than The Matrix demo.

 

[Musilla]

Uhm, wat.. Maybe it's just me that have gone crazy or have lost my eyesight somehow, but FF16 almost looks bog standard. Don't get me wrong, it looks..nice, but come on now, lol.

This is my case, graphically the game looks good, that's all.

It even has "ugly" things like static vegetation with this hurricane wind

Meanwhile in Forbidden West...

 

[ChiefDada]

Final Fantasy XVI actually overall has better geometry than The Matrix demo.

This is true. You can include Horizon, DS, and other games with geometric complexity that eclipses the Matrix demo. While Nanite impressed with LOD management, the geometry used in the Matrix demo, particularly for the buildings, was not impressive (and that's ok because the time it took to construct the city was minimal). It was the lighting and scale of the city that provided the wow factor.

 

[OCASM]

Have you guys heard of our lord and savior Remedy Games?

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes but that's not what I said. I said I'm more impressed by the game as it actually is than the collection of cutscenes in the reveal.

Maybe I'm just uniquely bad at imagining how games would look from cutscenes, but for me that Horizon trailer simply wasn't impressive. The gameplay reveal was, and playing the final product also is.

The detail and graphical in those cutscenes is what we are talking about. The foliage density, underwater detail, lighting quality, and other visual effects are completely missing from the final version. They specifically said the footage was captured running on a PS5. So if this was running on a PS5 then why downgrade it?

I made these gifs and spammed them to hell and back on both era and gaf for two years. Some of these have like 90k views. This is what we were sold and while we got something absolutely gorgeous, it doesnt look as good as the original reveal which they claimed was captured on PS5.

 

[Hunnybun]

The detail and graphical in those cutscenes is what we are talking about. The foliage density, underwater detail, lighting quality, and other visual effects are completely missing from the final version. They specifically said the footage was captured running on a PS5. So if this was running on a PS5 then why downgrade it?

I made these gifs and spammed them to hell and back on both era and gaf for two years. Some of these have like 90k views. This is what we were sold and while we got something absolutely gorgeous, it doesnt look as good as the original reveal which they claimed was captured on PS5.

Yeah I sort of get it. The underwater scenes there look terrific. I think maybe I just switch off as soon as I see cutscenes in a video like that. I guess I just discount them straight away or something. To me that trailer was a mix of stuff that didn't look great (the opening shots for example) and stuff that was so obviously touched up for cutscenes (although not necessarily clearly impossible in real time) that it was hard to glean anything from it.

If they'd just shown me gameplay that we actually got I'd have been way more impressed.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The detail and graphical in those cutscenes is what we are talking about. The foliage density, underwater detail, lighting quality, and other visual effects are completely missing from the final version. They specifically said the footage was captured running on a PS5. So if this was running on a PS5 then why downgrade it?

I made these gifs and spammed them to hell and back on both era and gaf for two years. Some of these have like 90k views. This is what we were sold and while we got something absolutely gorgeous, it doesnt look as good as the original reveal which they claimed was captured on PS5.

I'm telling you they always knew the Ps5 was never going to do that. They do it for hype. Imagine having the ps5 reveil and not faking footage. If Sony showed up to the ps5 unveiling without Project Athia or Forbidden West trailer it wouldnt have played into gamers expectations (however wrong they turned out) of the "insane power of the ps5". It's a shitty way to conduct themselves but it's how they all do it.

They are straight up lying with these trailers and they know exactly what they're doing. I know your answer is to downgrade resolution but Sony knows 1080p is not acceptable for this generation (they'd have to have an internal resolution of 720p to get the game looking like this). Sony themselves created this monster by marketing the shit out of 4k. I wouldn't want to suffer a game with really bad image quality to get these kinda visuals.

Videogame industry is still the wild west. It's corrupt as hell and these companies get away with SO MUCH. They will suffer the backlash gladly so long as they can generate that huge initial hype to sell consoles and games.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm telling you they always knew the Ps5 was never going to do that. They do it for hype. Imagine having the ps5 reveil and not faking footage. If Sony showed up to the ps5 unveiling without Project Athia or Forbidden West trailer it wouldnt have played into gamers expectations (however wrong they turned out) of the "insane power of the ps5". It's a shitty way to conduct themselves but it's how they all do it.

They are straight up lying with these trailers and they know exactly what they're doing. I know your answer is to downgrade resolution but Sony knows 1080p is not acceptable for this generation (they'd have to have an internal resolution of 720p to get the game looking like this). Sony themselves created this monster by marketing the shit out of 4k. I wouldn't want to suffer a game with really bad image quality to get these kinda visuals.

Videogame industry is still the wild west. It's corrupt as hell and these companies get away with SO MUCH. They will suffer the backlash gladly so long as they can generate that huge initial hype to sell consoles and games.

I agree with you on them being corrupt and that conference with them implying GT7, Horizon and Miles were next gen only games like Returnal, Ratchet and Demon Souls was slimy as fuck, but I am legitimately struggling to see why PS5 versions of Ghost of Tsushima, TLOU Part 1 and Horizon Forbidden West did not use the E3 versions. TLOU Part 1 couldve just used those high quality motion matching animations, character models and GI. GoT had several downgrades too. You are launching the same year as the PS5, literally months before it comes out, just keep those models and animations for the PS5 version instead of throwing all of that work away. Again, the thing is, the work is already done.

Unless, they never had these implemented and what we got was something faked like Watch Dogs. Remember, Richard from DF alluded to Watch Dogs not just running on a souped up PC but also probably being a fucking scripted cutscene made to look like gameplay. If ND really had those crazy motion matching animations already working on the PS4 Pro, they couldve easily put them in the PS5 version of TLOU Part 1 or in a PS5 version of TLOU2 they never bothered to make. Something is off here.

P.S This reminded me of the Anthem demo revealed at E3 2017. SIX years later, we havent seen anything come close to looking this good. And this was a fake demo made by Bioware to fool the EA boss into thinking they had been working on something for five years.

 

[CGNoire]

I'm telling you they always knew the Ps5 was never going to do that. They do it for hype. Imagine having the ps5 reveil and not faking footage. If Sony showed up to the ps5 unveiling without Project Athia or Forbidden West trailer it wouldnt have played into gamers expectations (however wrong they turned out) of the "insane power of the ps5". It's a shitty way to conduct themselves but it's how they all do it.

They are straight up lying with these trailers and they know exactly what they're doing. I know your answer is to downgrade resolution but Sony knows 1080p is not acceptable for this generation (they'd have to have an internal resolution of 720p to get the game looking like this). Sony themselves created this monster by marketing the shit out of 4k. I wouldn't want to suffer a game with really bad image quality to get these kinda visuals.

Videogame industry is still the wild west. It's corrupt as hell and these companies get away with SO MUCH. They will suffer the backlash gladly so long as they can generate that huge initial hype to sell consoles and games.

I really want Gamers to Stand Up against False Marketing the way they stood up against NFTs.

 

[CGNoire]

I agree with you on them being corrupt and that conference with them implying GT7, Horizon and Miles were next gen only games like Returnal, Ratchet and Demon Souls was slimy as fuck, but I am legitimately struggling to see why PS5 versions of Ghost of Tsushima, TLOU Part 1 and Horizon Forbidden West did not use the E3 versions. TLOU Part 1 couldve just used those high quality motion matching animations, character models and GI. GoT had several downgrades too. You are launching the same year as the PS5, literally months before it comes out, just keep those models and animations for the PS5 version instead of throwing all of that work away. Again, the thing is, the work is already done.

Unless, they never had these implemented and what we got was something faked like Watch Dogs. Remember, Richard from DF alluded to Watch Dogs not just running on a souped up PC but also probably being a fucking scripted cutscene made to look like gameplay. If ND really had those crazy motion matching animations already working on the PS4 Pro, they couldve easily put them in the PS5 version of TLOU Part 1 or in a PS5 version of TLOU2 they never bothered to make. Something is off here.

P.S This reminded me of the Anthem demo revealed at E3 2017. SIX years later, we havent seen anything come close to looking this good. And this was a fake demo made by Bioware to fool the EA boss into thinking they had been working on something for five years.

Its cause its way cheaper to target ps4 graphics @ 60fps than ground breaking visuals @ 30fps. Like way cheaper. Devs have now convinced laymans that 60 fps is "super hard" and tottally "next gen". (Fucking eyeroll)

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

it kinda is. because at what point is it pointless to waste money and time on details that need to be pointed out in youtube videos because people can easily miss them, instead of fleshing out the gameplay and design of a game?

especially in cases like Red Dead 2 where the "crazy detail" in animations and physics actually make the game feel like ass for example.
details are nice, but sometimes it feels like the focus of the studio is more on the graphics and animation details than on the actual design of the game.
and then they want you to look at all the detail of course, so interactive sequences are littered with automatically moving cameras, forced slow walking etc. which makes games less immersive and just screams pretentiousness.

you can see it in RE4 as well. many things in the remake demo have been altered for the sake of "presentation". formally interactive sequences are not interactive anymore, the game has to allow you to draw your gun because "cinematic".
the way Leon controls in the remake also feels more sluggish and imprecise, which is directly caused by the "more detailed" animations

detail is great, but it is a very mixed bag for me, where so much work is put into things that are A: not really important and B: force you to look at them because the devs want to show off to the detriment of gameplay, immersion and gamedesign.

The combination of all of the these details together makes a next gen experience…expect more from next gen…and no this isn’t the thread for your personal opinions on game design…this is about next gen features and graphic fidelity…TLOU II had most awards in gaming history a few months ago…that means something.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

This modeling wouldn't look out of place in some Unreal Engine 3 titles from over a decade ago.

Epic Games is like the last of the old guards that managed to excellently transition their visual style over the course of technology; It's rare now to see skilled video game artists, everything else looks like work done by film artists instead.

 

[CGNoire]

This modeling wouldn't look out of place in some Unreal Engine 3 titles from over a decade ago.

Epic Games is like the last of the old guards that managed to excellently transition their visual style over the course of technology; It's rare now to see skilled video game artists, everything else looks like work done by film artists instead.

Thats only because those arent one model. There nanite assets glued together and quickly used to "kitbash" that highway together. Those flat seams arent evidence of low quality assets there just seams where the high quality modular assets touch. If they had a larger team and more time they could of made more larger bespoke assets for each section of highway. Its a budget time issue not a tech issue

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Thats only because those arent one model. There nanite assets glued together and quickly used to "kitbash" that highway together. Those flat seams arent evidence of low quality assets there just seams where the high quality modular assets touch. If they had a larger team and more time they could of made more larger bespoke assets for each section of highway. Its a budget time issue not a tech issue

That's exactly what I mean. I remember seeing some Unreal Engine 3 games just sticking static meshes together like lego blocks, and even seeing a static mesh blended into another static mesh where you will see weird graphical artifacts.

 

[OCASM]

Unless, they never had these implemented and what we got was something faked like Watch Dogs. Remember, Richard from DF alluded to Watch Dogs not just running on a souped up PC but also probably being a fucking scripted cutscene made to look like gameplay. If ND really had those crazy motion matching animations already working on the PS4 Pro, they couldve easily put them in the PS5 version of TLOU Part 1 or in a PS5 version of TLOU2 they never bothered to make. Something is off here.

Yep, it was all scripted. It's not the first time they do this:

 

[SlimySnake]

Yep, it was all scripted. It's not the first time they do this:

Yh I remember that video. What’s even worse is that a ubisoft developer called them out on tlou2 and was harassed on Twitter until he apologized. Then the game came out and it was obvious the entire demo was scripted to hell and back. Nd knew this and let the dude get destroyed on Twitter anyway.

I’m a big fan of their games but they have a really poor track record with this shit and their internal politics is even worse. What they did to Amy henning then Bruce straley is just shitty.

 

[LiquidJensen]

Yh I remember that video. What’s even worse is that a ubisoft developer called them out on tlou2 and was harassed on Twitter until he apologized. Then the game came out and it was obvious the entire demo was scripted to hell and back. Nd knew this and let the dude get destroyed on Twitter anyway.

I’m a big fan of their games but they have a really poor track record with this shit and their internal politics is even worse. What they did to Amy henning then Bruce straley is just shitty.

What did they do to Bruce straley?

 

[Lethal01]

Details are “next gen”… TLOU 2 is on another level.

Nah, I'm talking about details you can actually use in gameplay

 

[SlimySnake]

What did they do to Bruce straley?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-last-of-us-game-director-bruce-straley-calls-for-unionization-after-hbo-credits-snub.1650309/

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Repost

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Nah, I'm talking about details you can actually use in gameplay

Yeah, we should have both…TLOU II is the most “next gen” game I’ve played…its a story driven game btw..the same systems wont work for all games and genre’s…

 

[LiquidJensen]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-last-of-us-game-director-bruce-straley-calls-for-unionization-after-hbo-credits-snub.1650309/

What happened between Straley & druckmann?

 

[sinnergy]

The detail and graphical in those cutscenes is what we are talking about. The foliage density, underwater detail, lighting quality, and other visual effects are completely missing from the final version. They specifically said the footage was captured running on a PS5. So if this was running on a PS5 then why downgrade it?

I made these gifs and spammed them to hell and back on both era and gaf for two years. Some of these have like 90k views. This is what we were sold and while we got something absolutely gorgeous, it doesnt look as good as the original reveal which they claimed was captured on PS5.

Yet every console cycle most fall for this PR, it’s now 9th generation, tells you something about people ..

 

[Madserb2023]

I can't believe people are still falling for bullshots. It's the equivalent of images you see for fast food. You can see why they do it. Look at the reception of God Of War Ragnorok when it was first showed. Almost everyone complained that it looked marginally better than the last game. I admire the fact that they were willing to show the game as it was. Ironically it looks better than a lot of games that have been released so far.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

I will not be surprised at all if Unreal Engine 5 games look technically downgraded for retail games, let me say that again retail games on the PS5 and Xbox (I'm not including PC) than what we got with The Matrix; Specifically cut-scene assets like shaders and animations. I hope I'm wrong, but my experience says otherwise.

If Final Fantasy XVI media footage looks like that at retail I wouldn't even be surprised if it best some Unreal Engine 5 titles on a technical level for retail games, let me say that again too on a technical level for retail games, I'm telling you guys.