Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
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BlownUpRich
Member
I am still FLOORED by GTA VI, I went and booted up Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart on my PS5 because GTA got me excited about graphics talk and stuff, and man, Ratchet still pulls no punches, I can't believe this is a 2021 game lmao, looks better than all games released this year so far, looks much more next-gen than Ghost of Yotei even.
I took some shots in photo-mode and used clever camera angles & some point lights, the weapon models look out of this world (I got the golden weapon skins yeah).
I took some shots in photo-mode and used clever camera angles & some point lights, the weapon models look out of this world (I got the golden weapon skins yeah).
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Absolutely insane.
Basketball on the roof.
Girl relaxing on the balcony.
Police chase happening in the city.
Ive never seen a city feel so alive from just a single screenshot.
RodriGames40
Member
We'll be there again by 2029 surely, wouldn't be surprised if the sequel ends up looking better than most PS6 games.I am still FLOORED by GTA VI, I went and booted up Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart on my PS5 because GTA got me excited about graphics talk and stuff, and man, Ratchet still pulls no punches, I can't believe this is a 2021 game lmao, looks better than all games released this year so far, looks much more next-gen than Ghost of Yotei even.
I took some shots in photo-mode and used clever camera angles & some point lights, the weapon models look out of this world (I got the golden weapon skins yeah).
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BlownUpRich
Member
I literally screamed "HOLY SHIT!" when I found this image floating around, this looks extremely detailed, full-blown next-generation if you like, everything here is of pristine quality, not just quality, but even the amount of asset density & variety is out of this world, straight up looks like a pre-rendered image at times, there's something contrasting the garish white color of the buildings hit with the sunlight mixed-in with the ever so-slight blue fog & the sea in the background with that obscene draw distance & detail retention far into the distance that gob smacks my face so hard, it's nuts!
Absolutely insane.
Basketball on the roof.
Girl relaxing on the balcony.
Police chase happening in the city.
Ive never seen a city feel so alive from just a single screenshot.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
let's look at our old friend Lumen GI, shall we?
(obviously watch in 4k)
Say hi to the typical delayed screen space information fill-in that is an issue to this day:
then we have the extremely low precision leading to constant boiling and light leaking. notice how at the far edge of the bridge it's constantly boiling as well as shifting from light to dark as it desperately tries to look for screen space information to shade the notches:
and now while moving a bit (notice how it looks like there are some hidden blinking LEDs or something in those notches, but turns out, it's just Lumen once again breaking in non-optimal conditions:
and here another example of Lumen not working correctly without having screen space information to fill the gaps of the insanely low fidelity raytracing. it doesn't know if the edge is in darkness or in bright daylight, unless I have the whole think in screenspace:
(also notice how the light around that spot also changes and is temporally unstable)
and now let's look how fast Lumen is,
here all I do is stand still and move the camera to a different direction. notice how Lumen takes multiple seconds to catch up and correctly light the environment:
(also look how TSR turns into blocky static around my character when moving the cam to fast)
ans last but not least... I don't even know how to describe this... probably a mix of TSR fucking up and lumen missing screen space information... either way look at my character sparkling!:
the only reason this demo looks even remotely cohesive is becaus the extreme motion blur hides a lot of the issues with image quality.
basically the moment you turn the camera the entire screen is just blurred over to an extreme degree
the moment you don't hide everything behind motion blur or specifically scripted sequences, everything breaks apart. TSR artifacts, low resolution, low fidelity RT, missing screen space information creating holes in the lighting, the low quality denosier working overtime trying to not boil like crazy.
First of all, the night time mode is literally labeled experimental. It is not indicative of lumen.
Secondly, the lumen in Matrix Awakens is literally hardware ray tracing so whatever issues you have with it are present in every other game with ray tracing. Those games use ray reconstruction on PC to denoise it properly. UE5 has also added denoising passes since this was released 4 years ago before UE5 was even released.
Lastly, those issues are extremely minor and only happen under some lighting conditions. Yet you called the demo ugly. It's an insane statement to make. I literally just downloaded the demo and ran it and i literally had to look for that ghosting. The game looks visually stunning and you are out there nitpicking which is fine, but dont go around calling the best looking game 'extremely ugly'.
You are not fooling anybody.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
https://www.rockstargames.com/VI/downloads/videos/GTAVI_Trailer_2/GTAVI_Trailer_2.mp4
Just right click and download. chrome sometimes has trouble streaming high bitrate files.
That's because its not PS5. Note that in the video they label it as "Capture on PS5". The same isn't the case for these short clips and screenshots.
They are most likely PC footage with high-end ray tracing / path tracing at native 4k.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, sony had a great first couple of years. Demon Souls, Ratchet and HFW basically ruled the world. At least on consoles. Cyberpunk was the king on powerful PCs. It's after HFW they just completely fell off. It's been 3 years since HFW and nothing from them. Literally nothing. Despite SSM, ND, Insomniac and PD all releasing AAA $70 games.I am still FLOORED by GTA VI, I went and booted up Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart on my PS5 because GTA got me excited about graphics talk and stuff, and man, Ratchet still pulls no punches, I can't believe this is a 2021 game lmao, looks better than all games released this year so far, looks much more next-gen than Ghost of Yotei even.
I took some shots in photo-mode and used clever camera angles & some point lights, the weapon models look out of this world (I got the golden weapon skins yeah).
they have already been embarrassed by Avatar, Wukong, Silent Hill 2, and most recently AC shadows. They have no shame. they have put their faith in the wrong leaders.
You have Neil who has spent the last 5 years making two seasons of a tv show instead of a video game.
you have Barlog literally jerking off for the last 7 years without having shown a single screenshot of his new IP. He also handpicked eric williams who decided not to have Milnor playable to just to subvert expectations. Cory also decided to make Ragnorak last gen.
You have Herman who saw Bluepoint make an amazing remake, and instead of having them do Demon Souls 2, he bought them only to have them slave away 5 years on a gaas game he cancelled. Bend has wasted literally 6 years on gaas since releasing one of the best looking games of last gen.
Insomniac was rushed from the very beginning by suits and it got to the point that they had to gut almost all of venom from the final game. I wouldnt be surprised if they had to downgrade the game's visuals because they realized they effectively had only two years to make a next gen only sequel. the game director literally bitched about this to the studio head Ted Price saying how suits from Sony forced him to gut the game 6 months out instead of delaying it.
Meanwhile, Rockstar told their CEO to go fuck themselves and literally delayed a $2 billion game because they didnt want to crunch and rush it out. Sony is simply full of leaders who have no backbone and dont champion their studios. After GoT was such a massive hit, you would think Sony would write them a blank check and turn them into a ND caliber studio with 300-400 devs but nope. The results are as mediocre as Sony's leaders.
Pharaoh 117
Member
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if one of these days, out of the blue, we get a Barlog tweet saying he's leaving SMS and then later Jason Schreier confirmed his game was canceled. With the way Sony is going this gen it would be so fitting.
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Balducci30
Member
You can throw all the money you want at something but it doesn't shift the reality - how does it exceed what the console is apparently capable of? Like we're lucky if we get very basic RTGI and raytraced reflections
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Balducci30
Member
This makes the most sense
BlownUpRich
Member
Good question, the answer most likely (of course I'm not a developer) is with ample time, budget, plenty of labor & Lead Director & Core Tech direction, they have created custom solutions that can utilize these consoles in the most efficient ways possible while providing such big leaps in graphical quality, these things take lots & lots of R&D, also part of this tech direction, is if they either choose to build the game to run at 60 FPS or 30 FPS, and they obviously from the looks of it, opted to squeeze every ounce of the PS5, may not even run at native 4K, I bet it's approximately 1440p, that frees up a LOT of GPU power, a full-generation range of GPU power instead of using all that to run at 60fps 4K.
ZehDon
Member
Excellent response. To add to this, having a large staff and development time frame also allows the developer to employ pre-baked solutions for lots of things, as they have the time and man-power to tweak every little thing to get them to look just right. Pre-baked solutions allow them to increase the visual quality leaps and bounds over real-time solutions for specific items - there's diminishing returns without artist intervention - it's just extremely time consuming. Smaller developers simply don't have the time, staff, and money to do this stuff - and nowhere near attempting it at this kind of scale. For example, pre-computed lighting and shadow probes for interiors are pretty common on bigger titles, as interiors pose lots of edge cases for real-time solvers. We're talking millions of dollars just for artists to complete this process for interior spaces for a game as massive as GTA. Apply this to things like reflection system hand offs, audio system probes, cube-map updates, pre-calculated BCH swapping, AI pathing, particle system collisions; Rockstar can make this hardware sing because they can invest to a degree few developers could dream of. That's not to downplay their technical achievements, which have been industry leading since the PS2.
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Balducci30
Member
So does this mean that they're baking a lot of the lighting? Why does everyone think it's real time?
mrMUR_96
Member
Nah, I think they had RT in mind from the start, GTA V got an RT update on PS5 ages ago and PC recently just got a full RT update for it too. It's very impressive and clearly something they've been working on for a long time.
sncvsrtoip
Member
About gta6 for me more than graphics that for sure are really good more impressive is level of density of assets, never seen before in open world game. Every scene is full of little details. This plus top tier animation and final result is realy amazing.
mrMUR_96
Member
I wonder if they'll tweak roughness cut-off and other RT quality settings for cutscenes vs gameplay. I'm just so impressed by what I'm seeing, hard to believe what they're getting out of ps5.I just noticed the RT reflections on that ceiling surface above them near the end of that gif; the ripples of the water on the other side of the bar are being reflected up and on to the left side of it and there's zero occlusion issues with that, or any characters, plus all of the NPCs are being reflected nicely. The surface texture makes me think the roughness cut off isn't too aggressive either, at least in cutscenes.
So it's not only RT, but it's capturing the water in a detailed enough way and regularly enough to properly convey the ripples as well as the specular on it. For the cutscenes at least it seems the BVH isn't too rudimentary.
mrMUR_96
Member
They look like RDR2 clouds, somewhat low res but still impressive. The fact that some minor flaws are visible in the trailer just hypes me up more that the good stuff really is that good in the actual game.This is another shot I really like and it's so lifelike, everything in it but the sky looks bonkers. I don't know what is it about the clouds and sky that just doesn't look right.
GymWolf
Gold Member
They have been embarassed for a whole gen dude...
GymWolf
Gold Member
My brother in chtullu, sushi2 looks mediocre even for a sony average budget game standard...
Audiophile
Member
In official gta vi website if you navigate to downloads you can find all trailers in source quality, all website gifs as videos in source quality and all releasesed pics with good quality
Grand Theft Auto VI - Rockstar Games
Vice City, USA. Jason and Lucia have always known the deck is stacked against them. But when an easy score goes wrong, they find themselves on the darkest side of the sunniest place in America, in the middle of a criminal conspiracy stretching across the state of Leonida — forced to rely on each...www.rockstargames.com
Rest of the industry needs to follow suit on this. It's pretty dire that in 2025 our best option for a trailer for 99% of games is a ~9mbps vp9 youtube stream. And even then they regularly only upload them in 1080p and/or 30Hz containers.
Even if the vast majority are ok with that, putting out a 50mbps+ hevc trailer download on their website is so incredibly easy for a multimillion/billion dollar company to do.
PeteBull
Member
Indeed man, srsly, even fricken suckerpunch that gave us I:SS early 2014 and later Ghost of Tsushima in 2020, dropped the ball so hard with Yotei's graphical fidelity, obviously its not as big downgrade as ND had, but fuck, we really need shuhei back to properly manage those sony studios.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Sushima was already a step down, art design did all the heavy lifting, raw graphic wise it was probably the worst sony open world out of the big 3-4.
Sucker punch are definitely the worse in term of graphic out of all the big sony studios imo, or at the very least, they got worse since inf3.
I still have hope for santa monica even if ragnarock was a joke, i hope it was made by the b team and the a team is making the new corey game.
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ZehDon
Member
It's a hybrid approach, such as using pre-calculated virtual shadow and lighting maps, sky occlusion maps, and voxelised ray-marching structures, all of which can hand off to various real-time probe-based approaches based on proximity to the camera. This allows real-time lighting effects - including shadows from clouds, car headlights, etc. - to be merged with the pre-calculated information, giving the illusion of a fully real-time lighting solution on a massive scale. It also allows artists to intervene, and setup things that aren't "technically" correct, but are artistically correct. (The pre-calculated approach is just an updated version of Quake's lightmap, albeit dramatically more sophisticated. Variations of the approach have been used in everything from Quake 2 - which actually included a simplistic bounced lighting pass - all the way up to Cyberpunk 2077, which actually used multiple pre-calculated sets of lighting and shadow information to allow for the open-world time of day transitions.)
For GTAVI, in some of the screenshots we've seen, the shadows up close look immaculate and very fine detail. The shadows much further away from the camera are clearly of quality lower while light bounce is still present in distance geometry. If you look closely at distant objects, you'll notice point lights aren't casting direct shadows and bounce lighting is only for environmental lights. That's the hallmark of pre-calculated maps being sampled at lower rates further away from the camera. There's clearly a cut-off being used for some of the lighting steps. If it was a full blown real-time path tracing approach, we wouldn't see that kind of discrepancy - everything would be bounced lit the same, shadows retain details at distance from all lighting sources, etc. I'd wager limited RT is used to assist with local effects - like car headlights - and it's combined with pre-calculated voxelised information for the environment. (When I say RT, I don't mean a real-time RT approach, I mean using hardware accelerated rays to assist with occlusion and bounce calculation, to speed up the work, as opposed to trying to do fully RT lighting.) It's no doubt a complex solver, and easily a generation ahead of RDR2, which was already the best on the market, short of fully real-time path tracing.
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Schmendrick
Banned
we got shrinking horse testicles in RDR2. If it`s Rockstar with their billion dollar budget then everything is possible.How many chances to get titty soap cleaning physics?
Homeboy doesn't even need a coat when it's chilly outside
PeteBull
Member
We gotta remember tsushima was made on ps4, aka 1,8tflop gpu with jaguar cpu(about 3x weaker from current gen console cpu) and 5400rpm hdd(not even 7200rpm lol) so i got 0 complains on how it looked, especially as open world, ofc corridor shooter like the order 1886 is still top looking game but again- different genre- "1080p" with black bars so actual pixel count was 1920x800(aka 6% more pixels from 900p) so bit unfair to compare to actual open world, and yeh uc4/lost legacy, and later tlou2 were graphically superior to GoT but those werent open world, they were mid-way from corridor shooter to actual open world.
On ps5/ps5pr0 those games should look visibly better, and like slimy mentioned, we can give pass to insomaniac coz of fast travel speed in spiderman2, but wtf are doing other studios...
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Portugeezer
Member
The fact that trailer says capture on PS5 is crazy. Not even the PS5 Pro.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Nah i was talking about the other sony open worlds, not the small games.
Tsushima graphically look worse than sp1, days gone and horizon, art design, saturated colors and wind tech is what save that game.
Audiophile
Member
Ok, I spoke too soon... the encode of the video download on R*'s site is using MPEG-4 Layer 2 Visual, H.263 with the Simple L3 profile, encoded in Xvid (lol!)..
It'll probably edge out the VP9 YouTube stream on pure bitrate and I understand using old codecs for max compatibility with streams, but for the purposes of a high quality download I don't know what they were thinking using quarter century old formats. And in fact, H.263 doesn't work on a lot of newer TVs, my LG OLED won't play it off USB.
Would it really be so hard just to offer an additional download option with a beefy HEVC encode?
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Its gotta be new AI algorithms. Theres just no way the old methods could be optimized enough to be used all at once on every character.
Because of its effects on dynamic objects.
Audiophile
Member
All the short clips muxed/appended together into a single file (bit awkward to watch 1s clips by themselves), slowed from 30fps to 24fps as they're short and it gives you a moment longer to check them out, looped 2x and re-encoded with a "take as many bits as you like" approach, should run on any modern TV over oozbe:
drive.google.com
Couple lossless screen grabs from each scene in there too.
GTAVI_Clips - Google Drive
drive.google.com
Couple lossless screen grabs from each scene in there too.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. thats why im convinced this is a $2 billion game or at the very least, at least a billion. We will never see an open world game with this many different assets in one room.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is my favorite shot from the website. Shame its not in the trailer and isnt included in any of the gif videos. Excuse the jerkiness, i had to scroll down to loop the gif.
The lighting, the charactrer models, the background detail, the cinematography. this is better than most movies nowadays. Rockstar is going to shit on everyone with this game, even hollywood.
We are all old men here. How many of us went around buying up magazines after MGS2 and MGS3 trailers came out so we could watch them on CDs and DVDs. This is back when games werent event 480p. We are up to 2160p now and most devs just dont care that their games look like dogshit on youtube.
The lighting, the charactrer models, the background detail, the cinematography. this is better than most movies nowadays. Rockstar is going to shit on everyone with this game, even hollywood.
Honestly, everything needs to be uploaded in HDR nowadays. its 2025.
We are all old men here. How many of us went around buying up magazines after MGS2 and MGS3 trailers came out so we could watch them on CDs and DVDs. This is back when games werent event 480p. We are up to 2160p now and most devs just dont care that their games look like dogshit on youtube.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Am I gay if i noticed the hair tech on the dude's arm before the hot chicks with tits?How many chances to get titty soap cleaning physics?
Homeboy doesn't even need a coat when it's chilly outside
Thats what I thought when watching this part. If so these graphics are crazyI'm sure we're seeing a real-time transition from cutscene to gameplay here.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Portugeezer
Member
Humanity has peakedHow many chances to get titty soap cleaning physics?
Homeboy doesn't even need a coat when it's chilly outside
GymWolf
Gold Member
Not until we see the rumored dynamic boner for jason based on how lucia is dressed with real bulging physics
(Not my joke)
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BlownUpRich
Member
My God! 1st time seeing this! Absolutely stunning.This is my favorite shot from the website. Shame its not in the trailer and isnt included in any of the gif videos. Excuse the jerkiness, i had to scroll down to loop the gif.
The lighting, the charactrer models, the background detail, the cinematography. this is better than most movies nowadays. Rockstar is going to shit on everyone with this game, even hollywood.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
We are gay for graphics. Hence the NSFW tag on this fucking thread that mods refuse to remove.No you are not, because i did the same
wait...
Kabelly
Member
Some of the take I've been reading in here regarding Naughty Dog are pure haterade. We're really going to doubt them now? Say what you want about Part II's story, but I'd probably consider it top 5 in graphic detail as well. Intergalatic looks clean af already and that was just a slice trailer and at 60fps. Virtually nothing was shown of the game world at large.
Schmendrick
Banned
Last gen, yes easily.
This gen however they have not released anything new, their remakes/remasters were nothing to write home about and the first glimpse of what they actually have in the pipeline for ALMOST THE END OF THE GEN wasn`t exactly breathtaking in any way. Coupled with how fucked up Sony`s general output has been with the PS5......yes, doubt is warranted.
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Negotiator101
Member
This game is bedded in last generation technology, only areas it really impresses in now are animation and attention to detail which both are still world class.Some of the take I've been reading in here regarding Naughty Dog are pure haterade. We're really going to doubt them now? Say what you want about Part II's story, but I'd probably consider it top 5 in graphic detail as well. Intergalatic looks clean af already and that was just a slice trailer and at 60fps. Virtually nothing was shown of the game world at large.
Obviously there next game will be amazing but it's hitting too late to really make waves, especially post GTA VI.
Balducci30
Member
it's because people hoped and had expectations for Naughty Dog to be on rockstars level, or even above because of their reputation and past workSome of the take I've been reading in here regarding Naughty Dog are pure haterade. We're really going to doubt them now? Say what you want about Part II's story, but I'd probably consider it top 5 in graphic detail as well. Intergalatic looks clean af already and that was just a slice trailer and at 60fps. Virtually nothing was shown of the game world at large.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
here we go. The website gifs are likely from the PC version. Probably why they look so amazing.
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