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[Represent.]

I don't doubt it will look great - but for example: Hellblade 2 only looks as good as it does cus it's SUPER limited, nothing else comes close. I don't see anything to suggest consoles can pull off a game that has the amount of interactivity/simulation/physics and so on like GTA is known for, while being open world. While simultaneously having crazy lighting, while having the new hair physics stuff, while having the rumored new water sim stuff, while having a crazy amount of npcs… yet somehow (if you go off the trailers) it's going to look 2 times better than every other game out there? Even at 30fps it seems pretty much out of the question

This one of the ND slides about lou2 lighting tech they clearly addressed that the lack of rt dynamic lighting due ps4 limits which is clear indicate that there engine is supposed to be ready to use it on PS5 that make huge question for me why intergalactic looks like it doesn't have it ?, Are what we so from it not enough to judge ?, Their main programming team unchanged aside from very little moves since ps3 are they lazy or sony forced them to neglect rt for 60fps and if that the case why they didn't use some form of hypird rt lighting like ue5 lumen?

We've seen literally 3 seconds of gameplay. It was in early development, we should NOT be judging this game yet.

It will not look like what the screenshot that always gets posted in here looks like.

I guarantee it. Its Naughty Dog, its Neil Druckmann.

Who has never put out a bad project or an ugly game. Just wait.

At least they had the guts to show something while it's still very raw. Unlike Cory "Show nothing, say nothing, do nothing" Barlog and his team over at SSM.

All you have to do to know Intergalactic is in good hands is watch the TLOU 2 making of Documentary.

The devs in there were talking about how everything ND puts out has to be top notch, and "the best". From graphics, to story, to sound and gameplay. They are not lazy devs without ambition. Quite the opposite.

Intergalactic will be fine

 

[Msamy]

We've seen literally 3 seconds of gameplay. It was in early development, we should NOT be judging this game yet.

It will not look like what the screenshot that always gets posted in here looks like.

I guarantee it. Its Naughty Dog, its Neil Druckmann.

Who has never put out a bad project or an ugly game. Just wait.

At least they had the guts to show something while it's still very raw. Unlike Cory "Show nothing, say nothing, do nothing" Barlog and his team over at SSM.

All you have to do to know Intergalactic is in good hands is watch the TLOU 2 making of Documentary.

The devs in there were talking about how everything ND puts out has to be top notch, and "the best". From graphics, to story, to sound and gameplay. They are not lazy devs without ambition. Quite the opposite.

Intergalactic will be fine

I Really hope we won't end disappointed aside from (Neil druckman) they are my favorite developer's alongside rockstar

 

[PeteBull]

PC version didn't existed at that time, at least officially. It released 2 years later, so bullshots or not, the game was a lot worst when finally released on PS3/360 (yet a miracle for these console).

Yup, that was gta5 at launch, in sept 2013, on ps360, thats how it looked and how it ran:

 

[Kikorin]

Yup, that was gta5 at launch, in sept 2013, on ps360, thats how it looked and how it ran:

Exactly. Glorious 20/25fps at sub 720p, and I was blown away by anything I was seeing on the screen lol

I played it for ages and had some of the best game time of my life. Imagine if someone would release a game working like that today, it would be destroyed in no time, no matter how good the game could be. But was nice seeing devs push boundaries back in the days at cost of framerate/res, with the 60fps obsession right now would be impossible. Luckily Rockstar choose 30fps for GTA VI, so we'll probably have again a true blown away moment playing the game.

 

[geary]

At least they had the guts to show something while it's still very raw. Unlike Cory "Show nothing, say nothing, do nothing" Barlog and his team over at SSM.

Did they? I bet nothing is shown without Sony approval. They didn't shown anything new for 5 years. My bet is Sony pushed them to show anything.
No one gives a fuck about Cory's game. 99% of the games have no idea who Cory is. Santa Monica released a game 2 years ago. No one is pushing them to show anything.

For the mass, is Santa Monica game, not Cory Barlog game.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am not expecting much from Cory's new game. at least visually. im sure it will be a fun game. Might even be in goty contention but SSM's graphics days are behind them. that talent is just not there anymore.

 

[SlimySnake]

Exactly. Glorious 20/25fps at sub 720p, and I was blown away by anything I was seeing on the screen lol

I played it for ages and had some of the best game time of my life. Imagine if someone would release a game working like that today, it would be destroyed in no time, no matter how good the game could be. But was nice seeing devs push boundaries back in the days at cost of framerate/res, with the 60fps obsession right now would be impossible. Luckily Rockstar choose 30fps for GTA VI, so we'll probably have again a true blown away moment playing the game.

Dude we have locked 30 fps games nowadays thanks to DRS with resolutions 4x higher than the 720p gtav resolutions, and people still bitch and moan like its unplayable.

Some guy in the other thread was bringing up input lag and i legit laughed out loud. uncharted 4 had an input lag of 150 ms last gen. and thats on non-oled tvs which add even more input lag. this was in the same gen where cod had a 50 ms input lag and was 60 fps. no one gave a shit.

the problem has always been switching back and forth. it makes 30 fps feel like 10 fps and vaseline covered garbage due to motion blur. thats why im like dont even give players the option. your eyes adjust to it in minutes. the only 30 fps game that felt bad to me was HFW at launch because of the brightness flickering bug. but i was able to get around it by changing some camera settings and they quickly fixed it after a week. ratchet, FF16, callisto, spiderman 2, AC shadows, outlaws, Wukong, all felt great at 30 fps.

 

[ChiefDada]

This one of the ND slides about lou2 lighting tech they clearly addressed that the lack of rt dynamic lighting due ps4 limits which is clear indicate that there engine is supposed to be ready to use it on PS5 that make huge question for me why intergalactic looks like it doesn't have it ?

Are you serious!? Intergalactic lighting was basically perfect with flawless image quality all while running at 60fps. RT reflections and shadows (possibly VSM) are apparent in the trailer. DF even thought it was too much for PS5 Pro.

 

[SlimySnake]

Who has never put out a bad project or an ugly game. Just wait.

never?

He called this mind blowing and next gen during PR.

The trailer for intergallactic was 60 fps. That should tell you everything you need to know about his priorities. And not just 60 fps. It was native 4k 60 fps. Witcher 4's E3 demo was also 60 fps but it was 800p 60 fps. That means the intergallactic trailer is basically 8x the resolution of the witcher 4 demo. thats 8x the gpu resources that couldve gone towards making the game look next gen.

maybe it was faked like the uncharted 4 1080p 60 fps teaser and they are only targeting native 4k 30 fps. but even then, thats 4x the gpu power wasted compared to the witcher 4 demo.

there is a reason why this looks a gen behind witcher 4 despite both running at 60 fps. One dev tried, they other jerked off to shemales.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

I really hope there will be no 60 FPS mode with GTA 6, on any console. Because that means compromises in terms of physics, AI, and overall fidelity.

Yes you can scale back some settings on the fly, but for some you have to program the game around the 60 FPS target then, which means significant compromises. I'd rather have a full 30 FPS game that goes crazy on everything. 30 FPS is enough.

If you post this outside of threads like this one people will certainly pile on you. But I agree 1000%.

Exactly. Glorious 20/25fps at sub 720p, and I was blown away by anything I was seeing on the screen lol

I played it for ages and had some of the best game time of my life. Imagine if someone would release a game working like that today, it would be destroyed in no time, no matter how good the game could be. But was nice seeing devs push boundaries back in the days at cost of framerate/res, with the 60fps obsession right now would be impossible. Luckily Rockstar choose 30fps for GTA VI, so we'll probably have again a true blown away moment playing the game.

I will always prefer to pay the resolution and framerate cost to have a game push the boundaries with the tech for the simple fact that once we get better hardware res and framerate will instantly get better buy every compromise made in other areas will be there forever unless, of course, the devs go back and put in the work.

 

[Msamy]

There is something wrong with digital Foundry first that said that 007 don't have RT reflection or shadows on ps5 pro while developer's themselves confirmed it

Ofiical specs

Then they said that phantom blade zero didn't have lumen while developer's themselves confirmed it

Phantom Blade Zero Q&A - Dev Says Bosses are the Game's Highlights, Confirms Hardware Ray Tracing & PS5 Specs

We interviewed S-Game founder and CEO Soulframe Liang to learn all about the impressive Chinese Soulslike game Phantom Blade Zero.

wccftech.com

 

[YeulEmeralda]

GTA6 will be 60fps on PC let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[adamsapple]

There is something wrong with digital Foundry first that said that 007 don't have RT reflection or shadows on ps5 pro while developer's themselves confirmed it

Ofiical specs

Don't put too much stock on the PS5 blog / store page.

It has been wrong before too.

The Until Dawn remake blog page mentioned RT in it and the final game doesn't have any RT on either PS5 or Pro, only on the PC.

Until Dawn, rebuilt and enhanced for PS5 and PC, launches October 4

Discover the enhancements in graphics, gameplay, story elements, and more.

blog.playstation.com

 

[Flabagast]

There is something wrong with digital Foundry first that said that 007 don't have RT reflection or shadows on ps5 pro while developer's themselves confirmed it

Ofiical specs

Then they said that phantom blade zero didn't have lumen while developer's themselves confirmed it

Phantom Blade Zero Q&A - Dev Says Bosses are the Game's Highlights, Confirms Hardware Ray Tracing & PS5 Specs

We interviewed S-Game founder and CEO Soulframe Liang to learn all about the impressive Chinese Soulslike game Phantom Blade Zero.

wccftech.com

PsBlog is full of bullshit

 

[Bojji]

There is something wrong with digital Foundry first that said that 007 don't have RT reflection or shadows on ps5 pro while developer's themselves confirmed it

Ofiical specs

Then they said that phantom blade zero didn't have lumen while developer's themselves confirmed it

Phantom Blade Zero Q&A - Dev Says Bosses are the Game's Highlights, Confirms Hardware Ray Tracing & PS5 Specs

We interviewed S-Game founder and CEO Soulframe Liang to learn all about the impressive Chinese Soulslike game Phantom Blade Zero.

wccftech.com

Don't put too much stock on the PS5 blog / store page.

It has been wrong before too.

The Until Dawn remake blog page mentioned RT in it and the final game doesn't have any RT on either PS5 or Pro, only on the PC.

Until Dawn, rebuilt and enhanced for PS5 and PC, launches October 4

Discover the enhancements in graphics, gameplay, story elements, and more.

blog.playstation.com

Yep, and devs have been lying many times before.

We have to wait for final game, there might be some things that will be there but were not present in what they showed so far.

 

[BlownUpRich]

PlayStation 6 Full Specs leaks video just dropped!

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

its called volumetric lighting. something sucker punch apparently knows nothing about.

And at least they have ground textures in star wars outlaws. the ground in ghosts is literally a plain grey texture probably copied from MS Paint. maybe 16th century japan had invented flat concrete roads hence the lack of detail on the ground.

lol! This made me laugh.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

10 tflops is just enough for next gen visuals at 1440p 30 fps, and not just native 1440p. 1440p reconstructed to 4k. We saw this at the UE5 reveal which was so clean and crisp that people thought it was native 4k but they later confirmed it was 1440p reconstructed to 4k using TSR. Which is what almost all UE5 games have been targeting so far this gen.

Avatar, Outlaws , AC Shadows, Alan Wake 2, Star wars Jedi Survivor and Callisto also targeted 1440p being because reconstructed to 4k using FSR2 or TSR in Callisto's case. Hell, avatar can actually go all the way up to 1800p though it does average out around 1440p.

GTA6 is targeting 1440p internal resolution before being upscaled to 4k using FSR2. it's why they can push so many other features like RTGI, reflections, insane amount of detail, hair physics and all those amazing water effects.

Exactly, TLOU 2 (I consider it top 5 best gaming visuals of all time) was 1440p 30 FPS on PS4 Pro, so a 1440p 30 FPS title on PS5 Pro (3x more powerful) should blow TLOU 2 out of the water.

 

[Zuzu]

A short film produced using UE5. It says in the description that most scenes run in real-time in-engine (they used the movie render queue for offline rendering features).

 

[GymWolf]

Shake my head, fucking borderlands 4 giving ammo to ue5 haters...

 

[GymWolf]

A short film produced using UE5. It says in the description that most scenes run in real-time in-engine (they used the movie render queue for offline rendering features).

Am i crazy if i say that after hb2 and wukong, this doesn't look THAT impressive?

Like i expect cheap AA on unreal 5 (6) to look like this in the nextgen without a sweat.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

People continuing to lie to themselves that UE5 just appears to be poorly optimized because there are so many UE5 games being released. It is the developers who suck.....

 

[GymWolf]

Slimysnake and others continuing to lie to themselves that UE5 just appears to be poorly optimized because there are so many UE5 games being released. It is the developers who suck.....

Probably as much as you and the other ue5 haters lie about ue5 not producing the best graphic in the business, BY FAR.

Maybe buy a decent pc so you can actually play ue5 games at their best (that is far from perfect and also far from the unplayable bullshit narrative you people have).

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Probably as much as you and the other ue5 haters lie about ue5 not producing the best graphic in the business, BY FAR.

Maybe buy a decent pc so you can actually play ue5 games at their best (that is far from perfect and also far from the unplayable bullshit narrative you people have).

Nobody denies the insane fidelity of UE5. The problem is that if developers are struggling to run the engine on average hardware, they will be forced to make cuts in other areas. Game worlds will feel more empty, like in Avowed. Enemy density will be less. It will affect the games overall design. All gamers, including high end PC owners will be affected. Gameplay is still king

 

[geary]

 

[GymWolf]

Nobody denies the insane fidelity of UE5. The problem is that if developers are struggling to run the engine on average hardware, they will be forced to make cuts in other areas. Game worlds will feel more empty, like in Avowed. Enemy density will be less. It will affect the games overall design. All gamers, including high end PC owners will be affected. Gameplay is still king

You may not deny it, but majority of ue5 haters actually do that.

I mean you have people thinking that decima look better when the best graphical aspect of both horizon and ds2 is a freakin ue5 feature

You may be right, but then what is the excuse for other games with dead worlds that don't use ue5??

I have faith that living breathing worlds can be made with ue5 if cdproject chose this engine for w4 and probably cyberpunk 2.

Spiderman 2 is made with an optimized engine and both the car traffic and npcs behaviour are inferior to infamous 1 on ps3...

And i could make a lot of examples...

 

[coachmcguirk91]

You may not deny it, but majority of ue5 haters actually do that.

I mean you have people thinking that decima look better when the best graphical aspect of both horizon and ds2 is a freakin ue5 feature

You may be right, but then what is the excuse for other games with dead worlds that don't use ue5??

I have faith that living breathing worlds can be made with ue5 if cdproject chose this engine for w4 and probably cyberpunk 2.

Spiderman 2 is made with an optimized engine and both the car traffic and npcs behaviour are inferior to infamous 1 on ps3...

And i could make a lot of examples...

Studios chose to work on UE5 many years ago, likely assuming that any major flaws in the engine would most likely be ironed out by this point. On its face it is a great engine for studios. Not only in terms of fidelity, but ease of use and the ability to contract developers that are already familiar with it. It makes complete sense why a large portion of the industry changed to it

Spiderman 2 is a terrible example. The whole purpose of that game world is to replicate NYC traffic and crowd density while swinging 20 stories in the air. You are not meant to interact with NPCs on the ground

DS2 and HFW have game worlds that are way more "lively" than anything that UE5 has produced. Maybe Outer Worlds 2 will prove me wrong

 

[Msamy]

Nobody denies the insane fidelity of UE5. The problem is that if developers are struggling to run the engine on average hardware, they will be forced to make cuts in other areas. Game worlds will feel more empty, like in Avowed. Enemy density will be less. It will affect the games overall design. All gamers, including high end PC owners will be affected. Gameplay is still king

You come to graphics theard and sayin that nobody desire better fidelity and gameplay is king absolutely amazing

 

[coachmcguirk91]

You come to graphics theard and sayin that nobody desire better fidelity and gameplay is king absolutely amazing

I love fidelity in my games but not when it sacfrices game design. UE5 will stifle gameplay innovation if performance issues are a consistent issue on average hardware

 

[Msamy]

I love fidelity in my games but not when it sacfrices game design. UE5 will stifle gameplay innovation if performance issues are a consistent issue on average hardware

We are on graphics theard and it's objective is mainly graphics aside from anything else (also we care about other things but not if it affects graphics) as example we don't care about 60fps if game gonna look amazing at 30fps finally this graphics theard if you want talk about design,gameplay and performance this not the theard for that

 

[coachmcguirk91]

We are on graphics theard and it's objective is mainly graphics aside from anything else (also we care about other things but not if it affects graphics) as example we don't care about 60fps if game gonna look amazing at 30fps finally this graphics theard if you want talk about design,gameplay and performance this not the theard for that

I know it says Graphics, but the thread has always included overall technical abilities of games. Whether it is graphics, animations, or performance

 

[Msamy]

I know it says Graphics, but the thread has always included overall technical abilities of games. Whether it is graphics, animations, or performance

No mainly graphics above anything else even if some talks about other aspects so we don't sucrfice graphics for anything else but the opposite،you can find most here hate 60fps because it's affect game graphics on current gen hardware which can't handle both of them with good resolution that said we talk about about animation and other aspects also but the mindest here is graphics is king

 

[SlimySnake]

Played some borderlands 2 last night (came free with my 5080) and man i will never understand why devs continue to start games in the most dull, boring, and ugly looking scenarios. Just look at how Spiderman 2 and DS2 started. The games look last gen as fuck but DS2 used the best looking rocks and mountains for their opening. its literally a dude walking but there is an icnredible soundtrack, sweeping camera angles, gorgeous sunset lighting. Spiderman 2 of course starts off with an awesome setpiece.

Meanwhile this game starts off in an empty facility with no detail. you then finally make it outside after like 20 minutes of mindless shooting drones. but instead of having this awe-inspiring reveal of next gen jungle like Avatar, its dark and grey and night time. And you are shooting dogs for the next 10 minutes.

I didnt have any graphics issues but i am playing on a PC thats roughly 3x more powerful than the PS5. I just dont think the graphics are that impressive. But then again i havent seen the game during day time at its best because the devs are retarded.

 

[GymWolf]

Studios chose to work on UE5 many years ago, likely assuming that any major flaws in the engine would most likely be ironed out by this point. On its face it is a great engine for studios. Not only in terms of fidelity, but ease of use and the ability to contract developers that are already familiar with it. It makes complete sense why a large portion of the industry changed to it

Spiderman 2 is a terrible example. The whole purpose of that game world is to replicate NYC traffic and crowd density while swinging 20 stories in the air. You are not meant to interact with NPCs on the ground

DS2 and HFW have game worlds that are way more "lively" than anything that UE5 has produced. Maybe Outer Worlds 2 will prove me wrong

agree to disagree.

Horizon world looks lively but the npcs are robots and you can barely inteact with them, and let's not even speak about ds2 that is basic af, even a non-fully developed stalker 2 eat the world of ds2 and horizon alive for breakfast.

Oh and before you say that stalker devs made much better worlds before working with ue5, from my understanding the vanilla version of the stalkers were buggy, unfinished mess aswell, and they were always heavilly improved by modders.
The most advanced and systemic version of stalker i think it's straight up a stand alone mod...

And like i said, i can make countless examples of open world with shitty or inexistent interactions with npcs that feel dead that are not on ue5, it is not a limit of the engine, it is devs not having that as a priority, if this excuse work for sp2, it work for ue5 games aswell.

They say that male communist feminist wet dream simulator 2 already has more systemic shit than avowed or the first game so it sound like a devs problem.

P.s. i'm sure cdproject, the studio that need to redeem itself for making dead open worlds (and was roasted for that) chose ue5 because it's shit at making wirlds feel alive, yeah they must be that stupid.

 

[GymWolf]

Played some borderlands 2 last night (came free with my 5080) and man i will never understand why devs continue to start games in the most dull, boring, and ugly looking scenarios. Just look at how Spiderman 2 and DS2 started. The games look last gen as fuck but DS2 used the best looking rocks and mountains for their opening. its literally a dude walking but there is an icnredible soundtrack, sweeping camera angles, gorgeous sunset lighting. Spiderman 2 of course starts off with an awesome setpiece.

Meanwhile this game starts off in an empty facility with no detail. you then finally make it outside after like 20 minutes of mindless shooting drones. but instead of having this awe-inspiring reveal of next gen jungle like Avatar, its dark and grey and night time. And you are shooting dogs for the next 10 minutes.

I didnt have any graphics issues but i am playing on a PC thats roughly 3x more powerful than the PS5. I just dont think the graphics are that impressive. But then again i havent seen the game during day time at its best because the devs are retarded.

Dude they ripped you off, borderlands 2 is an old ass game.

 

[Luipadre]

The lighting in BL4 looks really good. There are certain lighting and day time conditions where it looks amazing. The distance details are not good in the game tho.

 

[SlimySnake]

DS2 and HFW have game worlds that are way more "lively" than anything that UE5 has produced. Maybe Outer Worlds 2 will prove me wrong

DS2? really? how? it literally is a post apocalyptic world with literally nothing going on. And thats on purpose.

HFW i can understand. it has robots everywhere and some wildlife you can hunt. but its extremely limited as well. I saw maybe two people walking and like one patrol getting into an altercation with robots in my entire playthrough.

it was nothing like the original HZD trailer which showed massive herds of different robots in large fields that are then attacked by trex. that is what the game shouldve been but we didnt even get that in the sequel.

the lack of lively worlds in modern games is not a UE5 issue. We saw in the matrix demo that UE5 is capable of having 50k civilians with 50k cars along with another 30k parked cars. its a developer problem. besides we havent really seen many UE5 open world games anyway. Avowed, and Stalker which is also a post apocalyptic hellhole like DS2. And avowed is fairly linear outside of the towns.

KCD2 is on cry engine and has a fairly dead open world despite having a lot of different systems with NPCs inside towns. ghost of yotei looks dead as fuck. Avatar, Outlaws and AC shadows have similar issues.

 

[metareferential]

DS2? really? how? it literally is a post apocalyptic world with literally nothing going on. And thats on purpose.

HFW i can understand. it has robots everywhere and some wildlife you can hunt. but its extremely limited as well. I saw maybe two people walking and like one patrol getting into an altercation with robots in my entire playthrough.

it was nothing like the original HZD trailer which showed massive herds of different robots in large fields that are then attacked by trex. that is what the game shouldve been but we didnt even get that in the sequel.

the lack of lively worlds in modern games is not a UE5 issue. We saw in the matrix demo that UE5 is capable of having 50k civilians with 50k cars along with another 30k parked cars. its a developer problem. besides we havent really seen many UE5 open world games anyway. Avowed, and Stalker which is also a post apocalyptic hellhole like DS2. And avowed is fairly linear outside of the towns.

KCD2 is on cry engine and has a fairly dead open world despite having a lot of different systems with NPCs inside towns. ghost of yotei looks dead as fuck. Avatar, Outlaws and AC shadows have similar issues.

Yep, that's just stagnating game design. Nothing to do with tech.

AC Unity fares favourably compared to modern games for that very reason. Cyberpunk same thing.

 

[xxDeadlockxx]

 

[metareferential]

Lol. Why do they even bother having modern features in their hardware.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I wonder if KCD3 will switch to Unreal.

 

[SlimySnake]

This one of the ND slides about lou2 lighting tech they clearly addressed that the lack of rt dynamic lighting due ps4 limits which is clear indicate that there engine is supposed to be ready to use it on PS5 that make huge question for me why intergalactic looks like it doesn't have it ?, Are what we so from it not enough to judge ?, Their main programming team unchanged aside from very little moves since ps3 are they lazy or sony forced them to neglect rt for 60fps and if that the case why they didn't use some form of hypird rt lighting like ue5 lumen?

Managed to produce convincing/consistent lighting where probe lit objects integrate well into environment:

Some examples of convincing/consistent lighting:

The game looks phenomenal outdoors in direct light scenarios and really bad indoors. Yes, ray tracing was not feasible last gen but they clearly ran into memory/framerate issues indoors because i saw a lot of games last gen with better interiors. including the infamous uncharted 4 epilogue sequence.

 

[SlimySnake]

Nintendo on Switch 2:

Real developers on Switch 2 who dont spend all day jerking off to hentai porn:

 

[Msamy]

 

[GymWolf]

I think you people mistake number of npcs with actual meaningful interactions, to me matrix demo and ac unity are rather unimpressive because they have basic to none interactions between them, the world and the main character.

In 2025, sheer numbers are as impressive as 2020 circa era of devs saying how many square kilometers their open world maps are or how many words their script have.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

DS2? really? how? it literally is a post apocalyptic world with literally nothing going on. And thats on purpose.

HFW i can understand. it has robots everywhere and some wildlife you can hunt. but its extremely limited as well. I saw maybe two people walking and like one patrol getting into an altercation with robots in my entire playthrough.

it was nothing like the original HZD trailer which showed massive herds of different robots in large fields that are then attacked by trex. that is what the game shouldve been but we didnt even get that in the sequel.

the lack of lively worlds in modern games is not a UE5 issue. We saw in the matrix demo that UE5 is capable of having 50k civilians with 50k cars along with another 30k parked cars. its a developer problem. besides we havent really seen many UE5 open world games anyway. Avowed, and Stalker which is also a post apocalyptic hellhole like DS2. And avowed is fairly linear outside of the towns.

KCD2 is on cry engine and has a fairly dead open world despite having a lot of different systems with NPCs inside towns. ghost of yotei looks dead as fuck. Avatar, Outlaws and AC shadows have similar issues.

"Lively" worlds are not just about NPC density but interactivity within the game world. The Death Stranding series does a phenomenal job of absorbing the player in its world and using dozens of different of gameplay mechanics to traverse it. I have my criticisms for DS2, as I wish it was more dynamic, but regardless, it is one of the most engaging open worlds I have ever played. You don't play an open world game for more than 50hrs, let alone 100+hrs, if the game world doesn't pull you in

I love how people always come back to Matrix demo as to what UE5 is capable of. It is all smoke and mirrors of what we were promised and not a single developer has come close to producing an actual game, not a tech demo, that looks anything like that

And KCD2 is easily the most immersive game I have ever played. I have no clue what you are talking about there. The best interactivity with NPC's bar none. NPC's with daily schedules should be the norm for all AAA RPG's. The game world doesn't have great terrain variety, but that is because the game is being historically accurate to the geography it is set in. It has great wild life, a massive city, woods, small villages, entire castles filled with NPC's. All alongside an incredible story. If the game had an actual fun combat system, it would be in discussion for Game of the Generation

Kuttenberg is fucking amazing

 

[SlimySnake]

"Lively" worlds are not just about NPC density but interactivity within the game world. The Death Stranding series does a phenomenal job of absorbing the player in its world and using dozens of different of gameplay mechanics to traverse it. I have my criticisms for DS2, as I wish it was more dynamic, but regardless, it is one of the most engaging open worlds I have ever played. You don't play an open world game for more than 50hrs, let alone 100+hrs, if the game world doesn't pull you in

Then you keep using it in the wrong context. just because DS2 uses its open world to make traversal engaging doesn't mean it has a lively world. i mean you literally blamed the engine for devs being forced to cut enemy density and empty worlds. Thats how this whole argument started. To you lively worlds equaled NPC density just a few posts ago, and vibrant living open worlds. Something DS2 is anything but. Sounds like you are moving goalposts.

The problem is that if developers are struggling to run the engine on average hardware, they will be forced to make cuts in other areas. Game worlds will feel more empty, like in Avowed. Enemy density will be less.

I love how people always come back to Matrix demo as to what UE5 is capable of. It is all smoke and mirrors of what we were promised and not a single developer has come close to producing an actual game, not a tech demo, that looks anything like that

But you were literally blaming the game engine not allowing devs to create lively worlds. Matrix proves that the game engine IS capable. It's the devs that are incapable.

And KCD2 is easily the most immersive game I have ever played. I have no clue what you are talking about there. The best interactivity with NPC's bar none. NPC's with daily schedules should be the norm for all AAA RPG's. The game world doesn't have great terrain variety, but that is because the game is being historically accurate to the geography it is set in. It has great wild life, a massive city, woods, small villages, entire castles filled with NPC's. All alongside an incredible story. If the game had an actual fun combat system, it would be in discussion for Game of the Generation

Eh. Like i said, it's good within villages but you go out in the open world and its as barren as HFW, AC Shadows, Avatar, outlaws and well, virtually every other game out there. Maybe you are ok with dead worlds like this but i dont want that world to exist so i can ride my horse through it to get to the next mission. I want shit to fucking happen on the ride there. Which it almost never does. Sometimes you might run into a couple of bandits but its extremely rare and thats about it.

It's a great game yes, but we are not talking about that. We are talking about your comment regarding lively worlds.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah if you think ds1-2 open worlds are impressive we have literally nothing else to discuss because i think the exact opposite.

They are as fucking basic as it comes.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think you people mistake number of npcs with actual meaningful interactions, to me matrix demo and ac unity are rather unimpressive because they have basic to none interactions between them, the world and the main character.

In 2025, sheer numbers are as impressive as 2020 circa era of devs saying how many square kilometers their open world maps are or how many words their script have.

yeah, as much as i live AC Unity, it's kind of weird going back to it and realizing 99% of the people in the crowd dont notice you kill someone. A few around you are startled and might scream, but the rest are clearly salad dressing. its not like RDR2 or GTAV where everyone just goes off running like there is a mass shooter going on a killing spree.

I still think infamous 2 was the best use of NPCs. They had full physics applied to them so they would get caught up in tornadoes, get hit by cars you throw at them, and all run around like they were being hunted. it was awesome playing the evil mode. it sucks how games have basically shied away from all that to avoid upsetting people. started with infamous second son where they toned down some of those NPC interactions, and now NPC interactions are basically non-existent.

P.S Watch Dogs has an amazing NPC simulation. But the devs kept it to a minimum. There are mods out there that push the sliders to max and its absolute insanity. car accidents, NPCs fighting each other, brawls everywhere. its hilarious. I really hope GTA6 is like this. I just want to go to a bar where a fight between NPCs automatically breaks out without me doing anything.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Then you keep using it in the wrong context. just because DS2 uses its open world to make traversal engaging doesn't mean it has a lively world. i mean you literally blamed the engine for devs being forced to cut enemy density and empty worlds. Thats how this whole argument started. To you lively worlds equaled NPC density just a few posts ago, and vibrant living open worlds. Something DS2 is anything but. Sounds like you are moving goalposts.


But you were literally blaming the game engine not allowing devs to create lively worlds. Matrix proves that the game engine IS capable. It's the devs that are incapable.

Eh. Like i said, it's good within villages but you go out in the open world and its as barren as HFW, AC Shadows, Avatar, outlaws and well, virtually every other game out there. Maybe you are ok with dead worlds like this but i dont want that world to exist so i can ride my horse through it to get to the next mission. I want shit to fucking happen on the ride there. Which it almost never does. Sometimes you might run into a couple of bandits but its extremely rare and thats about it.

It's a great game yes, but we are not talking about that. We are talking about your comment regarding lively worlds.

It is not just about enemy density, but gameplay mechanics will get watered down as result of performance issues. There are more systems working together in DS2 than practically any other game in existence. Whether it be the type of terrain, building mechanics, vehicles, character stamina

What open world/hub UE5 game is there to look forward to? I don't think Outer Worlds 2 will push the engine in any meaningful way. Are we really just waiting for the Witcher 4 to come out in 2-3 years? If Gears E-Day comes out with performance issues will you stop blaming the developers? Because if the people who worked alongside Epic games for decades can't figure it out, who can?