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[Coriolanus]

With nearly 75% of the votes counted, Greece's population has now made it clear that it does not want the government to take whatever deal the creditors offer them.

Evening summary: Greece gives creditors the big No

A quick recap:

Greece has delivered a dramatic, unexpected and sensational rejection of the terms demanded by its creditors in return for aid, putting itself closer to leaving the euro.

With more than three quarters of votes counted, around 62% of Greeks have voted No, or Oxi – stunning the eurozone, and opening up another chapter in this long crisis.

Finance minister Yanis Varoufakis has praised Greeks for the ‘brave decision’ to reject the bailout package proposed by lenders, calling it a “big yes for democratic Europe’.

And labour minister Panos Skourletis has said Greece now has a very strong card to use to negotiate a better deal.

But the news has already been badly received in Germany. Vice-chancellor and social democratic leader, Sigmar Gabriel has warned it is hard to see how Greece can now negotiate a third bailout.

German chancellor Angela Merkel is to meet with French president Francois Hollande tonight to discuss the situation.

Antonis Samaras, the head of the New Democracy party who campaigned for a Yes vote, has fallen on his sword.

But beyond the euphoria, Greece still faces a desperately difficult situation after a week of capital controls, which left its banks closed and running very short of cash.

The Greek government is expected to meet tonight with its central bank, and the main commercial banks, to discuss the liquidity situation.

The Bank of Greece is expected to ask the European Central Bank for more liquidity; analysts have already predicted this request will be rejected.

One economist has predicted that there is a 75% chance that Greece will now leave the eurozone.

Europe’s financial markets are expected to fall sharply on Monday, with the FTSE 100 tipped to fall by around 2%. The euro has already fallen by 1% in early trading.

The government supported the vote for No, which won in every single electoral zone in the country.

What does this mean for Greece and the EU? We'll see. No one knows exactly how this will play out. Should be an interesting week.

As usual, please try to avoid "lazy greeks, they didn't do nothing!" rethoric. Tends to net people a ban.
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Resources:

Guardian Eurozone Crisis Live Coverage
My favourite way to stay up to date with the latest events.

Where did all the greek bailout money go?
Well-sourced article explaining it.

How did we get to this point, ffs?
Krugman warning on that one.

What's the FMI's take on Greece's debt?
Mo' Money, Less Problems.

Did the greeks even try to cut their spending?
Yerp.

A comprehensive and extensive primer on the Greek Crisis
By Anyl Kashiap, from the University of Chicago's Booth school of economics. Pretty decent read, tbh.

Also please don't put much stock on twitter coverage. Wait until a decent source like Reuters, Guardian or the AP writes a proper article on whatever news comes up. Otherwise you run the risk of thinking that everybody's a bunch of headless chickens.

 

[Madness]

Maybe Europe can award itself another peace prize for creating the EU... This basically means Greece is on a way out, and that the EU needs to think long and hard about whether their experiment was sustainable bringing in countries that have vastly different social cultures, etc. Greece is just the start, a lot of EU countries have tons of debt and would be unable to adopt extreme austerity to help reverse it. Gonna be an interesting latter half of century to world, I've been saying.

 

[John Kowalski]

Oxi means no?

Good luck to them.

 

[nature boy]

Unless there's a big u-turn, almost every eurozone governement oficial says Grexit is a reality.

 

[Courage]

I'm proud of Greece. A lot of uncertainty still lies ahead but at least they're not at the mercy of Troika and austerity any longer.

 

[vinnygambini]

Greece will be in my prayers tonight.

I'm hoping for a swift, and hopefully positive resolution for all parties involved.

Greece's people have suffered enough.

 

[PdotMichael]

Not the countries, but the EU as the institution.

Politically speaking the EU will become a walking zombie.

That's baseless.

Basically everything that defines EU works without any problems within the EU.

 

[hidys]

I'm glad they have rejected these absurd conditions that the EU has tried to impose on them.

 

[chadskin]

German EP president Martin Schulz said on German TV ARD the EU may have to look into preparing humanitarian aid to Greece in the next few days. Grim.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Unless there's a big u-turn, almost every eurozone governement oficial says Grexit is a reality.

I only heard Germans politicians saying this.

Italian exterior Italian minister said that the No means that Europe should look for a better deal.

That's baseless.

Basically everything that defines EU works without any problems within the EU.

Except we are more far than ever for a true fiscal union, just an example, and other similar mechanism that streghtens the EU.

With most politcians pushing for their local worries had make the EU union weaker than ever, as the Greece crisis show it.

 

[alexandros]

We are truly in uncharted waters. I hope for the best but fear that other european governments might not be so willing to sit on the negotiation table.

 

[petran79]

Conservative opposition leader Samaras, Juncker's favorite, resigns.

 

[RoKKeR]

Will be very interesting to see what the fallout of all this is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they are to get kicked out of the EZ their people will be stranded with no money while the government attempts to generate a new currency? Only been following this loosely.

 

[elrechazado]

With nearly 75% of the votes counted, Greece's population has now made it clear that it does not want the government to take whatever deal the creditors offer them.
.

That wasn't the actual question though?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Will be very interesting to see what the fallout of all this is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they are to get kicked out of the EZ their people will be stranded with no money while the government attempts to generate a new currency? Only been following this loosely.

Ish, yes. The government have probably been secretly prepping behind the scenes to introduce a new currency, so you'd been looking at probably a two-three month "adrift" period.

 

[nature boy]

I only heard Germans politicians saying this.

Italian exterior Italian minister said that the No means that Europe should look for a better deal.

Polish PM said the same thing:

Polish PM Ewa Kopacz to @N24: If the predictions are confirmed then only one option remains for #Greece: Exit from the Eurozone."

 

[Tetranet]

That is all. Tonight history changed.

 

[PodcastFips]

I only heard Germans politicians saying this.

Italian exterior Italian minister said that the No means that Europe should look for a better deal.

Poland also expects a Grexit.

 

[Randomizer123454444]

I honestly don't see how "NO" vote will help in negotiations with EU. I thought a "NO"-vote was a vote for Greece to stand on its own two feet? As in "NO" to EU aid (with conditions we have demanded this far)?

Whatever happens, I dearly hope the government and people of Greece will not get so stuck on EU hate that they forget to make the massive structural reforms their society needs.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

That wasn't the actual question though?

Let's face it, that was what people were coting today.

 

[Slayven]

So what are the best case and worst case scenarios?

 

[gofreak]

Good luck to the people in Greece, I hope the best possibility comes out of the whole situation. I fear all the possibilities will be painful, but I hope they find the shortest path out of this.

Politicians are lining up to draw their lines in the sand already. Strong words from Germany's deputy chancellor now. It'll be interesting to see where the common front arrives at.

 

[mackaveli]

Per reuters front page.

"German Chancellor Merkel spoke to Hollande on Sunday night, both agreed that Greek referendum result must be respected: German government spokesman"

No idea if that means Merkel will force the Grexit now or will they change their tone and compromise.

 

[SgtCobra]

Good luck to Greece, rough times ahead.

 

[PodcastFips]

Per reuters front page.

"German Chancellor Merkel spoke to Hollande on Sunday night, both agreed that Greek referendum result must be respected: German government spokesman"

No idea if that means Merkel will force the Grexit now or will they change their tone and compromise.

It means it's up to Greece to do something.

 

[Tworak]

are the greek going to blame germany for fucking themselves over this time, too?

interesting times ahead, for sure. I hope shit gets solved, but I have a feeling this just made everything a lot worse. drachma, ohoy-- oh boy.

 

[chadskin]

mathieuvonrohr: #Breaking: Merkel and Hollande to ask for extraordinary #EUCO on Tuesday - German gov spokesperson via AFP

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/617789165594378240

 

[Theonik]

Conservative opposition leader Samaras, Juncker's favorite, resigns.

Yesssssssss

 

[Indyana]

Thanks Greece. You stand proud against all odds.

Best of luck in the future negotiations.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/617789165594378240

Yup. That'll be the make or break. This rollercoaster is careering towards the end.

 

[The Power Of Snap]

Wonder how the manipulated stock markets will react tonight.

 

[Xando]

Per reuters front page.

"German Chancellor Merkel spoke to Hollande on Sunday night, both agreed that Greek referendum result must be respected: German government spokesman"

No idea if that means Merkel will force the Grexit now or will they change their tone and compromise.

Good luck getting a compromise(with debt cut) through the Bundestag.

 

[oti]

Schulz:

- We're waiting for Greece's new proposals.
- I respect the result of the referendum.
- Greece didn't gain a better hand.
- We can't ignore the opinion of the Greek population.
- Greece has to initiate new negotiations.
- Even Tsipras and his people have to get serious at some point.
- Government failed to inform their people, but we can't torture the people for their politicians.

Gellinek:

- New Europe wide meeting Tuesday evening.
- Two solutions: Either pull the plug and that's it or Tsipras will accept reforms for another program.


The ZDF chef editor just said the Greek government should fire Vaeoufakis.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Good luck getting a compromise(with debt cut) through the Bundestag.

Doesn't need to go via the Bundestag, can go entirely through the EC and ECB (although IMF acquisence would also be pretty important).

 

[Bodacious]

German EP president Martin Schulz said on German TV ARD the EU may have to look into preparing humanitarian aid to Greece in the next few days. Grim.

I wonder if the Greeks will vote no to that too.

 

[Coriolanus]

That wasn't the actual question though?

I could've put "they've voted No to a deal that's no longer on the table" but that would've said nothing and you know that's not how the greek government will interpret it.

So what are the best case and worst case scenarios?

Best: EU gives Greece a massive haircut and injects more money into the place, helping the current government foster reforms to fix all of the problems the country faces. Grutopia.
Worst: Grexit, endless hyperinflation, people start eating dogs, new elections, Golden Dawn wins. Grenosha.

Probable: Grexit, New drachma, one to two years of high inflation, greece recovers.

 

[genjiZERO]

Nuts. Still not sure what to think. On the one hand Greece needs serious political and tax reform. On the other austerity is a terrible economic policy.

 

[elrechazado]

I could've put "they've voted No to a deal that's no longer on the table" but that would've said nothing and you know that's not how the greek government will interpret it.

Well it would have been true, rather than your interpretation in what seems to be trying to be a news thread

 

[Xando]

Doesn't need to go via the Bundestag, can go entirely through the EC and ECB (although IMF acquisence would also be pretty important).

ECB financing greece without program will get shutdown from european courts before you can say notfallfinanzierung.

 

[lazer_bean]

are the greek going to blame germany for fucking themselves over this time, too?

interesting times ahead, for sure. I hope shit gets solved, but I have a feeling this just made everything a lot worse. drachma, ohoy-- oh boy.

I'm pretty sure there are many countries who had more spending power before the Euro. In terms of rent, food, proximity services etc... those tings were cheaper before the euro imo

Also why does it make more sense to borrow money from banks, with a high interest rate (as European countries must do - by law) rather than creating your own money with no interest at all ?

 

[oti]

There's a Greek guy called "Schatzimarkakis" on ZDF right now. That's a totes cute name.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm pretty sure there are many countries who had more spending power before the Euro. In terms of rent, food, proximity services etc... those tings were cheaper before the euro imo

Also why does it make more sense to borrow money from banks, with a high interest rate (as European countries must do - by law) rather than creating your own money with no interest at all ?

Because no one wants your Monopoly money? Why should I take your money if you just print more of it and make what I have worthless?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

ECB financing greece without program will get shutdown from european courts before you can say notfallfinanzierung.

EC does actually have executive powers, you know. That was one of the main aims of the Lisbon Treaty.

 

[PodcastFips]

There's a Greek guy called "Schatzimarkakis" on ZDF right now. That's a totes cute name.

Is the ZDF discussion or Günther Jauch on ARD more interesting? I missed the beginning.

 

[Osiris]

I'm pretty sure there are many countries who had more spending power before the Euro. In terms of rent, food, proximity services etc... those tings were cheaper before the euro imo

Also why does it make more sense to borrow money from banks, with a high interest rate (as European countries must do - by law) rather than creating your own money with no interest at all ?

Ask Zimbabwe.

 

[Coriolanus]

Well it would have been true, rather than your interpretation in what seems to be trying to be a news thread

Oh you.

Ask Zimbabwe.

If your example is a country that has had the same guy in power for nearly three decades... weeeell...

 

[Maximus.]

Rough roads for the EU over the next few decades for sure. Wonder how it will all play out now.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Can't believe they were saying was too close to call. 2015 has been the year of saying fuck you to pollsters.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Ask Zimbabwe.

This was a stupid post and you should feel ashamed.

 

[franbatista123]

I would not like to be a greek right now, not knowing what'll happen but knowing that whatever happens is not good.