Greenland considers joining the United States

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Punished Miku said:
If you're not going to kill them, that means you're planning to release them into society at some point.
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No, there is a thing called Life without Parole.

Punished Miku said:
So no answer then.
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Here is the answer you're looking for.

diffusionx said:
Putting people who committed crimes to work in order to repay their debts to society has a looooong history. Like thousands of years. I don't think just putting them to work is by itself cruel and unusual. A lot of people including myself, think it is better if they work and contribute something to society than just sit around in a cell.
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DeepEnigma said:
No, there is a thing called Life without Parole.


Here is the answer you're looking for.
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Most inmates have job opportunities. They are usually used to make profit for private industry that works with the prisons. They're not paying back taxpayers. For profit private prisons are likely to increase during the next administration.
 
Punished Miku said:
So no answer then. If you're not going to kill them, that means you're planning to release them into society at some point. That means you're investing in corrections programs and basic mental / physical health preservation.
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No answer for what? If the gov does not want to kill them then they can work in prisons forever. That's all to it. They don't need wages or anything - they have a place to live (a cell) and free lunch anyway.
 
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Punished Miku said:
Most inmates have job opportunities. They are usually used to make profit for private industry that works with the prisons. They're not paying back taxpayers. For profit private prisons are likely to increase during the next administration.
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Some do that, yes, where reform needs to come in.

A lot also clean up the roads, help with highway construction, etc..
 
demented waffle said:
What about cruel and unusual to the victims. Not saying American prison system doesn't need reforms on some counts. It obviously does for those we think that can be reformed. OTOH, there are also cunts who will never be a useful part of society. Their punishment should be extreme in the hope of deterring others.
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Criminals don't care about the victims. If you want to be a civilized society, you can't have just as much bloodlust in you as the criminal. Deterrence never works. We have capital punishments and extreme punishments already and guess what, people still commit crimes. Keep the worst out of civil society but don't treat them like animals. Don't really get how that is some controversial opinion. Especially because we know innocent people are being forced into these conditions also. We should be good to everyone in prison because not everyone should even be there.
 
diffusionx said:
i'm not going to go look for it either.


There is precedence for this. Citizens of Alaska get a dividend on oil royalties every year.

A place like this is going to be dependent on someone no matter what. Greenland cannot exist and defend its territory as an independent nation. So, the question is who. If Greenlanders "want" to be independent and "free", it doesn't matter, because they can't do it.


As always, the question is what is the definition of cruel and unusual.

Putting people who committed crimes to work in order to repay their debts to society has a looooong history. Like thousands of years. I don't think just putting them to work is by itself cruel and unusual. A lot of people including myself, think it is better if they work and contribute something to society than just sit around in a cell.
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if you're putting them to work they should be paid. Also this just lets corporations exploit people instead of hiring a functioning member of society. These jobs should be filled by people that aren't criminals and allow them to get paid the full amount for the work instead of forcing criminals to have these jobs while incarcerated. That just creates more unemployed regular citizens. As for what is cruel and unusual I figure if we outlawed it for regular citizens it's probably not the greatest thing to do to prisoners.
 
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Blade2.0 said:
if you're putting them to work they should be paid. Also this just lets corporations exploit people instead of hiring a functioning member of society. These jobs should be filled by people that aren't criminals and allow them to get paid the full amount for the work instead of forcing criminals to have these jobs while incarcerated. That just creates more unemployed regular citizens.
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I would argue that putting them to work helps teach them how to be functioning members of society.

In any case this is a different question.
 
He said, "Oh Canada!" 🤣


88n1Qd6.jpeg
 
On my local news they did a long segment about Trump & Canada.
They interviewed a Cabinet Minister and his answer was "This is ridiculous. Just watch South Park for example". 😄
 
Punished Miku said:
Most inmates have job opportunities. They are usually used to make profit for private industry that works with the prisons. They're not paying back taxpayers. For profit private prisons are likely to increase during the next administration.
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For profit prisons scare me to the bones. I can't really see how that is legal in civilized countries in modern times. It must open up incredible risks for corruption and slavery-like structures.
 
diffusionx said:
I would argue that putting them to work helps teach them how to be functioning members of society.

In any case this is a different question.
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it doesn't teach them how to function in society if the rules they are working under are different for them compared to others. Most people are smart enough to understand when they're getting fleeced and to resent the person or thing that did it to them.
 
Trilobit said:
For profit prisons scare me to the bones. I can't really see how that is legal in civilized countries in modern times. It must open up incredible risks for corruption and slavery-like structures.
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They have already been shown to take the profits and lobby (bribe) judges and lawmakers to tweak laws and sentencing to make incarceration more likely so they can profit off it. Its as evil as it gets.

Private industry working with a state or federal prison is another matter. That's not too bad. Most inmates want the job opportunity, it helps socialize them for society, and the industry makes money. Win / win / win, if done correctly.
 
Blade2.0 said:
it doesn't teach them how to function in society if the rules they are working under are different for them compared to others. Most people are smart enough to understand when they're getting fleeced and to resent the person or thing that did it to them.
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well, they're in prison. Of course the rules are different. The point is they show up and do a job, something that most of them never did before in their life and simply do not know how it works. We're not talking about a hard labor camp breaking rocks like Victorian England or soomething (which, honestly, I have no problem with either).
 
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I'm seriously considering selling large part of my All-World ETF and buy a house or several apartments.
Trade sanctions due the USA trying to annex Greenland would tank the stock market so hard and stay crippled for many decades to come.
 
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Kacho said:
Things are moving fast. Hard to tell what's shitposting and what's real lol

What's the deal with Canada? Trump keeps talking about copping them, then Justin resigns... crazy times
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This is exactly how Trump does things. He says a lot of stuff, some will believe all of it and that's why they think he's insane. Others will realize maybe one or two points are true while the rest is there just to get all the smooth brains riled up.
 
gundalf said:
I'm seriously considering selling large part of my All-World ETF and buy a house or several apartments.
Trade sanctions due the USA trying to annex Greenland would tank the stock market so hard and stay crippled for many decades to come.
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Trade sanctions against whom? Sanctions against the US would be economic suicide. We basically have all the resources we need. And we have a resource that nobody else has on this planet; pure quartz.
 
Blade2.0 said:
it doesn't teach them how to function in society if the rules they are working under are different for them compared to others. Most people are smart enough to understand when they're getting fleeced and to resent the person or thing that did it to them.
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As an adult you should not need to be teached how to fucking function in a society dude, that's what you learn by growing up, if by reaching adulthood you are incapable of functioning in a society, a prison is not gonna teach you better than your parents\life experiences\having some good sense in you.


Learning how to do a practical job is already a skill that can be used in the real world when they are out, but i agree that they should not work for private places and they should receive some money for it to provide for their families outside.
 
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gundalf said:
So you don't want me to buy a beautiful beach house but hold instead?

Seriously though, the impact would be negative and lasting.
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Update your talking point sources. There is a lot of information either you're omitting, or they're failing to inform you with.
 
demented waffle said:
Trade sanctions against whom? Sanctions against the US would be economic suicide. We basically have all the resources we need. And we have a resource that nobody else has on this planet; pure quartz.
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Europe will sanction itself to send USA the message:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I am really curious how it is going to develop because if Trump gets big corporations on board (those trillion giants), oh boy.
 
demented waffle said:
Trade sanctions against whom? Sanctions against the US would be economic suicide. We basically have all the resources we need. And we have a resource that nobody else has on this planet; pure quartz.
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It's for sure a tricky one in regards of raw materials and energy but the economy will still take a hit if exports shrink due to various sanctions and a lot of folks can lose their jobs.
 
gundalf said:
It's for sure a tricky one in regards of raw materials and energy but the economy will still take a hit if exports shrink due to various sanctions and a lot of folks can lose their jobs.
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TBF, the only way would invade Greenland is if the dollar failed. Our currency would be toast anyways. America has chaos every 80 years. 1770's, 1850's, 1930's and now. Good luck rest of the world.
 
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gundalf said:
Trade sanctions due the USA trying to annex Greenland would tank the stock market so hard and stay crippled for many decades to come.
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USA won't annex Greenland.

Greenland belongs to Denmark. Denmark is part of the EU. EU has a nominal GDP of 19 trillion which is more than China's 18 trillion. (USA is 29 trillion).

USA has already a bad standing with China due to the Taiwan situation. You don't throw away exports to economies with 37 trillion combined nominal GDP.

Denmark is part of the NATO. NATO nations buy weapons from other NATO nations. USA is the biggest weapons dealer in the world. There's a giant industry in the US relying on weapon exports to other NATO countries.

What's even more important: One of USA's biggest military base outside the states is in the EU (Ramstein, Germany). Ramstein serves as a headquarter for all US military operations in Eurasia and Africa.

Annexing Greenland would be a net lose of unbelievable proportions for the USA.
 
diffusionx said:
well, they're in prison. Of course the rules are different. The point is they show up and do a job, something that most of them never did before in their life and simply do not know how it works. We're not talking about a hard labor camp breaking rocks like Victorian England or soomething (which, honestly, I have no problem with either).
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They should be getting what anyone else would be making while doing that job. Not only would it give them a skill but starting funds when leaving prison. Recidivism would be much lower then.
 
Blade2.0 said:
They should be getting what anyone else would be making while doing that job. Not only would it give them a skill but starting funds when leaving prison. Recidivism would be much lower then.
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they could have gotten "what everyone else would be making while doing that job" if they didn't commit a crime that landed them in prison. They could have just done that job instead of committing crimes.
 
GymWolf said:
As an adult you should not need to be teached how to fucking function in a society dude, that's what you learn by growing up, if by reaching adulthood you are incapable of functioning in a society, a prison is not gonna teach you better than your parents\life experiences\having some good sense in you.


Learning how to do a practical job is already a skill that can be used in the real world when they are out, but i agree that they should not work for private places and they should receive some money for it to provide for their families outside.
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not everyone is on the same level as adults. So yes, many people need to be taught how to function. Do you think an orphan is going to be as socially adept in society as much as a billionaire's son?
diffusionx said:
they could have gotten "what everyone else would be making while doing that job" if they didn't commit a crime that landed them in prison. They could have just done that job instead of committing crimes.
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It's crazy how you still ignore that not everyone in prison is actually guilty or did something wholly unredeemable. They deserve respect and rights because they are still humans. And most in prison aren't even in there for hard crime. Why does someone in prison for marijuana deserve to be a slave? Pretty disgusting you're salivating for them to be punished like that for something that didn't even deserve jail time to begin with.
 
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Blade2.0 said:
not everyone is on the same level as adults. So yes, many people need to be taught how to function. Do you think an orphan is going to be as socially adept in society as much as a billionaire's son?

It's crazy how you still ignore that not everyone in prison is actually guilty or did something wholly unredeemable. They deserve respect and rights because they are still humans. And most in prison aren't even in there for hard crime. Why does someone in prison for a marijuana deserve to be a slave? Pretty disgusting you're salivating for them to be punished like that for something that didn't even deserve jail time to begin with.
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Nothing I said implied taking away their rights.

If they didn't commit the crimes, tell it to a judge. Not my problem. I don't even know how many people are in jail for marijuana but it's not many, and quite frankly I don't even care about that. The vast majority in prison deserve to be there and in fact should probably be there for longer. My sympathy goes for people who aren't convicted criminals.
 
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diffusionx said:
they could have gotten "what everyone else would be making while doing that job" if they didn't commit a crime that landed them in prison. They could have just done that job instead of committing crimes.
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It's literally cheaper for the taxpayer to just have them save whatever their shit wage is to try and transition to an apartment. Some keep the same jobs and transition out that way, and have a sense of what their income will be. Getting them out of prison saves on average around $40,000 a year per person. If they transition out and don't come back for even a "short" 4 year stay, that saves 160,000 plus court, police costs and the lost participation in the economy for local businesses.

Even people on the outside that aren't criminals are getting trashed right now with inflation and rent increases with an 18% uptick in homelessness this year. Some of these people emerge from custody a decade later and don't have a clue. We really don't need to have slave labor. It doesn't really teach them anything but that work is useless. Leaving with a tiny savings is probably the only time they've even experienced that. Maybe they can get a car, which is pretty much required to work. Anything they have will be spent within the local economy in the first 6 months.
 
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diffusionx said:
Nothing I said implied taking away their rights.

If they didn't commit the crimes, tell it to a judge. Not my problem. I don't even know how many people are in jail for marijuana but it's not many, and quite frankly I don't even care about that. The vast majority in prison deserve to be there and in fact should probably be there for longer. My sympathy goes for people who aren't convicted criminals.
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Being willfully ignorant of the problems surrounding you is why you don't want changes. You also can't say the vast majority of inmates deserve to be there when you aren't even willing to know why they're there to begin with.
 
Blade2.0 said:
Being willfully ignorant of the problems surrounding you is why you don't want changes. You also can't say the vast majority of inmates deserve to be there when you aren't even willing to know why they're there to begin with.
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Get off your high horse. Irs an extremely small number and has been declining.

Most drug offenders in prison were dealers. Many of those pled down to a lesser possession charge but they weren't just smoking a joint and got arrested. Nobody is getting arrested for smoking a joint anymore as anyone who has walked through NYC in the past five years knows.
 
Punished Miku said:
They have already been shown to take the profits and lobby (bribe) judges and lawmakers to tweak laws and sentencing to make incarceration more likely so they can profit off it. Its as evil as it gets.

Private industry working with a state or federal prison is another matter. That's not too bad. Most inmates want the job opportunity, it helps socialize them for society, and the industry makes money. Win / win / win, if done correctly.
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Classic example:
 
IDKFA said:
Lol. Fucking hell. He's lost the plot!

Either that or this must be some God-tier level trolling.
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The whole thing is one giant comedy distraction tactic to move people away from the fact he backed Elon over immigration - thus proving he doesn't give a shit about what MAGA wants, and he played them for fools.

It's very clever. And working extremely well. Nobody's talking about H-1B's anymore. The cattle have been moved on.
 
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