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[R0nn]

Would you guys like for Ninja Theory to be arquired by Sony? If they do that means they would only be able to make games for Sony of course. I personally would like them to but do you guys?

As a multiplatform gamer, I hope they'll buy them eventually as long as it wont compromise the developer's integrity. That way, they can focus completely on one type of hardware which will mean better optimized and polished games in the end.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I've tried playing without them and it's an exercise in frustration as it removes all the skill (precision aiming and tracking) from the game.

I respect your right to prefer it and support it but that doesn't make much sense.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I respect your right to prefer it and support it but that doesn't make much sense.

Let me put it plainly.

I am not an avid PC gamer, but I have played Doom, Wolfenstien, Quake 3, UT, and Outlaws. When I play those games, I can aim extremely quickly and not have to fiddle with lining up my target. Pretty remarkable considering I only play the genre once in a blue moon.

The same cannot be said for playing the same genre on a console. No matter how hard I try, a concerted effort being made, I cannot intuitively aim with a thumb stick or a D-pad. It's just not happening. This removes my ability to aim, which is the key mechanic that makes these games worth playing, and just makes playing a pain in the ass.

Trust me, this is the reason I suck so badly in Socom and avoid precision weapons like the sniper rifles and pistols like the plague.

It's sort of the problem console fans have playing a fighting game in the arcade. Haven't you ever run across nerds that claimed, "If I could play with X pad, I would beat you!"

Tekken 5 pretty much proved that. People were taking their Dual Shocks to the arcade and laying down some smack, and I got to use my arcade stick. Everybody was happy.

Given interface options, the decision should rest on the shoulder of the player. Not the developer.

 

[mckmas8808]

Ninja Theory has this to say after I asked him if they will be using certain engine code from Naughty Dog or any other SCEWWS studio.

Not sure if I should be insulted... Isn't that an assumption that everybody else is better than us? Ever consider it might be the other way

We use SCEE ATG tech a fair bit, and a few bits of various other SCEx tech. There is internal system for sharing and supporting different bits and peices.

But we all have very different ways of doing things or we are making very different types of games. We chatted about HDR and lighting systems with the Guerrilla guys when they were over and we couldn't share that much as we have such radically different requirements and usage models.

It seems like Sony's 1st and 2nd party teams will be using each others tech, which should be freaking amazing. Can you imagine Sony releasing more games that are like the God of War of next-gen? Imagine if the San Diego team uses Guerilla uses GoW's tech or vice versa?

:O

 

[Musashi Wins!]

maybe they'll come up with some compromise that makes using a different format easier with a console. I'm saying, I like consoles better than the pc gaming experience and I'd rather not have some other contraption to play with in front of my tv. I think the different formats require different skill, not none vs. some skill, which with your clarification is what you seem to be saying too. I agree that the ps2 sticks add another level of frustration to the excercise as shooting games are what they are least suited to.

I guess I simply doubt that developers will take the time to segregate the experience and also won't opt for a mixed one that frustrates the larger base that doesn't care that they're using the less than ideal control solution. We'll see. I don't think UT is the test case as it's a pc centric franchise.

 

[xaosslug]

Would you guys like for Ninja Theory to be arquired by Sony? If they do that means they would only be able to make games for Sony of course. I personally would like them to but do you guys?

Sony seems to be good at managing and offering their 1st parties a LOT of freedom, room to work. their 1st parties really are top notch. So, you know, if it ups the potential number and quality of games NT'd be able to output and achieve as apposed remaining independent... i say buy, buy, buy. independence really is overrated.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Ninja Theory has this to say after I asked him if they will be using certain engine code from Naughty Dog or any other SCEWWS studio.




It seems like Sony's 1st and 2nd party teams will be using each others tech, which should be freaking amazing. Can you imagine Sony releasing more games that are like the God of War of next-gen? Imagine if the San Diego team uses Guerilla uses GoW's tech or vice versa?

:O

nice! Are you some kind of inside man? How do you know people at NT?

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I agree that the thumb sticks add another level of frustration to the excercise as shooting games are what they are least suited to.

The problem is not intrinsic to any hardware maker's control. I've played FPS games on several consoles, and they all suck equally with thumb sticks.

I don't see how pad users would be frustrated. People swear by them and claim they're just as effective as using a KB&M. Time to ante up!

 

[Jerkface]

Good luck to them, I'm willing to eat crow because they had the makings of a decent universe (albeit one with strange art decisions)

 

[jett]

Was the video running at that res and framerate?

I'm pretty sure it was.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

nice! Are you some kind of inside man? How do you know people at NT?

The inside is Beyond3D. You have been warned.

EDIT: Damn you, gofreak. I'm suing my ISP now.

 

[gofreak]

nice! Are you some kind of inside man? How do you know people at NT?

The lead programmer, and another programmer at Ninja Theory post at Beyond3d.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

The lead programmer, and another programmer at Ninja Theory post at Beyond3d.

cool

 

[mckmas8808]

The inside is Beyond3D. You have been warned.

Yep B3D is the place where they discuss certain topics sometimes. Due to HUGE NDA's they can only say but so much.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Yep B3D is the place where they discuss certain topics sometimes. Due to HUGE NDA's they can only say but so much.

NDA's rock! They build huge anticipation IMO. Kuturagi for the win!1 I can't wait to see Tekken PS3!!!

When is the feb event?

 

[dark10x]

Would you guys like for Ninja Theory to be arquired by Sony? If they do that means they would only be able to make games for Sony of course. I personally would like them to but do you guys?

I would like most games to be single platform exclusive. I hate multiplatform games. They almost always suffer in one way or another with virtually no exception. X360 and PS3 will both be powerful systems, but they will also be different...and that will result in compromises. As a multiplatform gamer, I could not possibly care less about multiplatform releases.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It seems like Sony's 1st and 2nd party teams will be using each others tech, which should be freaking amazing. Can you imagine Sony releasing more games that are like the God of War of next-gen? Imagine if the San Diego team uses Guerilla uses GoW's tech or vice versa?

:O

This could work out really well. Ape Escape 3 is pretty much the best first party platformer this gen on the PS2, the problem is that technically its worse than anything Naughty Dog or Insomaniac did. Now with all of the developers are together, having ND share their engine with the AE team would be great. Just having games on the same wave graphically instead of this game looking amazing, and this one look ok will be awesome.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

This could work out really well. Ape Escape 3 is pretty much the best first party platformer this gen on the PS2, the problem is that technically its worse than anything Naughty Dog or Insomaniac did. Now with all of the developers are together, having ND share their engine with the AE team would be great. Just having games on the same wave graphically instead of this game looking amazing, and this one look ok will be awesome.

I said the exact same thing when I learned that AE3 had poor frame rate. This is a great move by Sony.

 

[TAJ]

>>>I will not buy an FPS that does not support KB&M!

I've tried playing without them and it's an exercise in frustration as it removes all the skill (precision aiming and tracking) from the game.<<<

Aiming effectively with an analog stick takes far more skill than aiming with a mouse. (Mouselook is also much easier than aiming a real gun) That's why you find it frustrating.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

>>>I will not buy an FPS that does not support KB&M!

I've tried playing without them and it's an exercise in frustration as it removes all the skill (precision aiming and tracking) from the game.<<<

Aiming effectively with an analog stick takes far more skill than aiming with a mouse. (Mouselook is also much easier than aiming a real gun) That's why you find it frustrating.

I'm inclined to agree. There's a higher degree of skill if you're able to accurately aim with analog sticks without aim assistence compared to a keyboard and mouse setup. I support both setups, but KB+M just makes console FPS too easy (Quake 3 for DC; Half-Life for PS2).

 

[gofreak]

It's a bit of leap to go from "sharing of bits of pieces", and components provided by ATG (Sony's own tech group, I think) and inter-developer communication to sharing whole engines between developers..

That said, we do see some studios within Sony themselves apparently coming together to work on common engines (i.e. the ICE engine, I think it was called? A collaboration between SCEA Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Insomniac). But whether they, for example, will share the whole engine if required with another Sony dev..maybe, maybe not. It certainly makes a lot of sense if the engine is suited to the task at hand, but that would seem to be a little step up from what DeanoC talks about.

 

[blackadde]

>>>I will not buy an FPS that does not support KB&M!

I've tried playing without them and it's an exercise in frustration as it removes all the skill (precision aiming and tracking) from the game.<<<

Aiming effectively with an analog stick takes far more skill than aiming with a mouse. (Mouselook is also much easier than aiming a real gun) That's why you find it frustrating.

it is harder to become competent on a pad. however, being that this is a game forum centered around, say, gamers, one would assume that the vast majority of people here could accomplish at least that much with relative ease. it takes a great deal of skill to become become competitively proficient with either a pad or a mouse, but there is an inherent skill cap involved when you use a pad - can you turn 180 in <3 frames?

i'm not sure how you'd rail someone coming off a jump pad on an analog stick, since the aiming mechanism doesn't even move that fast. your options become limited due to the control scheme.

 

[Stinkles]

BOOOOOO!

The FPS w/ KB&M support gets my money - UT2K7 for the win!

Then boy, do I ever have the console for you!!!

The only way KB and mouse could ever possibly work, is if you put them on separate matchmaking. That would mean the KB and mice players would be in a ghetto relative to the default controller folks, and have a much harder time matchmaking. Fine for custom games though.

Also, the amount of testing required for two FUNDAMENTALLY different gameplay/control schemes, would be mind-boggling. It's not just making mouse and keyboard relative to stick motion, or vice versa - play Quake 2 on 360 to see why.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

It's a bit of leap to go from "sharing of bits of pieces", and components provided by ATG (Sony's own tech group, I think) and inter-developer communication to sharing whole engines between developers..

That said, we do see some studios within Sony themselves apparently coming together to work on common engines (i.e. the ICE engine, I think it was called?). But whether they, for example, will share the whole engine if required with another Sony dev..maybe, maybe not. It certainly makes a lot of sense if the engine is suited to the task at hand, but that would seem to be a little step up from what DeanoC talks about.

The Ice engine rumour is probably bs. ND is a great dev and they will deliver a great looking game but I don't think either Sony Santa Monica or Insomniac are working on the engine. Once clue is that Insomniac is using Speed Tree tech but ND and Sony SM aren't using it.

They are probably just helping each other with problem solving like said.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Might as well if Heavenly Sword shapes up to be the real deal. Hold onto them. SCEWW is shaping up to be the best first party developer in the industry. It is amazing to see how far Sony has come from the PSone days as a developer. Heck even the early PS2 days when we got the mighty Fantavision from them at launch. It was a good game, but at the time Sony only had a fireworks puzzle game ready at PS2 launch.

In the PSOne days, I was not a big fan of Sony at all....I thought they were arrogant but didnt produce the quality software to back up the big talk...

During the PS2 days, Sony made a *HUGE* turnaround concening the quality of their games, their developer acquisitions and then the treatment of those developers once they acquired them.....they have come so far it is just crazy....

Now, at the end of the PS2 generation, and going forward to PS3, I believe Sony WW Studios to be a powerhouse developer in terms of quality AND quantity....

 

[gofreak]

The Ice engine rumour is probably bs. ND is a great dev and they will deliver a great looking game but I don't think either Sony Santa Monica or Insomniac are working on the engine. Once clue is that Insomniac is using Speed Tree tech but ND and Sony SM aren't using it.

They are probably just helping each other with problem solving like said.

It's just a rumour?

But element said...

 

[Pimpwerx]

Well shit, Ninja Theory kicked the shit out of all the other realtime stuff at E3, Sony better be bringing them on. The engine's only gonna get better too, so I gotta think SCEWWS is looking formidable this coming gen if they can do a good job sharing technology. PEACE.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Aiming effectively with an analog stick takes far more skill than aiming with a mouse. (Mouselook is also much easier than aiming a real gun) That's why you find it frustrating.

Are you actively trying to be a douche?

I don't see why game geeks feel the need to bring the issue of aiming a firearm into game discussion. What? Are you trying to say, "Gur hur! I done shot things." Because if that's the point, so have I, and I can tell you the entire comparison is foolish.

Shooting at the range is knowing what gun you're using, how the sights line-up, how fast the bullet reaches the target, blah - blah - blah. A ton of factors that don't come into play in most FPS games, regardless of what anti-violent game political detractors want you to believe.

If you want to boil it down to which motion is more akin to aiming an actual gun - then the one in which I aim with by moving my arm (mouse) is the winner!

Let's leave the shooting range out of this as it proves nothing. If you like to aim with a thumb stick, that's fine. You're your preference. Don't foist that crap off on me.

Yeah, washing dishes holding my sponge with chopsticks is a more skillful means of washing my dishes; but does it get the job done any quicker or better? No.

 

[Stinkles]

I'm inclined to agree. There's a higher degree of skill if you're able to accurately aim with analog sticks without aim assistence compared to a keyboard and mouse setup. I support both setups, but KB+M just makes console FPS too easy (Quake 3 for DC; Half-Life for PS2).

KB and mouse requires way less skill to become accurate versus stick - it's the difference between moving a mouse pointer directly to a folder, versus guiding a camera to it. That said, players using a stick with aim assist will reach the apex of their skill much faster - does that lead to a more even playing field? Nope.

Both types of players, at the very top levels, find ways to get better than the default control scheme allows for.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

It's just a rumour?

But element said...

element says a lot of things:

Sega Rally coming to PS2 < He said it was coming to Xbox

Unreal 3.0 Engine on PS3 < Said MS had Epic locked down.


He said sometimes his source is wrong or whatever. But ND's PS3 will look fantastic, no doubt what-so-ever! Jak III blows the shit out of all PS2 games technically.

 

[mckmas8808]

In the PSOne days, I was not a big fan of Sony at all....I thought they were arrogant but didnt produce the quality software to back up the big talk...

During the PS2 days, Sony made a *HUGE* turnaround concening the quality of their games, their developer acquisitions and then the treatment of those developers once they acquired them.....they have come so far it is just crazy....

Now, at the end of the PS2 generation, and going forward to PS3, I believe Sony WW Studios to be a powerhouse developer in terms of quality AND quantity....

I personnally think that if Sony keeps doing what they are doing I might even consider them better than Nintendo at making and producing games.

:O

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

We are certainly far from the days of "9-8-9 Studios" (PLANK!).

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I personnally think that if Sony keeps doing what they are doing I might even consider them better than Nintendo at making and producing games.

:O

You had to. You had to say it.

*puts on protective sweater*

 

[BlueTsunami]

I might even consider them better than Nintendo at making and producing games.

:O

HIT THE DECK!!!

*BlueTsunami runs away

 

[Stinkles]

I personnally think that if Sony keeps doing what they are doing I might even consider them better than Nintendo at making and producing games.

:O

I think they've been equal, if not better than Nintendo as a first party for two or three years now.

Spoiler

Fake gasoline to keep this gem going

 

[FiRez]

FPS genre is the one area the Playstation platform still lags in. Putting money into games like Killzone 2 and I-8 makes sense, if Sony wants to try and appeal more to western gamers. Or maybe more Xbots.

Bring on the Playstation Live rip off too, Sony. It'll make online experience so much easier.

They should begin by changing the controller, even the DS2 is awful for FPS

 

[TTP]

They should begin by changing the controller, even the DS2 is awful for FPS

Awful? No. Developers can be "lazy" tho. Just play PDZ with the "best controller ever" for proof.

Btw, link to the message board this is coming from pretty please?

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Well it's more of a graphics thing, Killzone is a great looking game.

The modelling is very good, especially the faces,

Seems like a nice jump over the first game. I hope Guerrilla can replicate the facial expressions in the trailer in the final game, because they were complete gash in Killzone PS2 - it spoiled the overall appearance of the human characters.

Btw, link to the message board this is coming from pretty please?

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board?board.id=killzone

 

[Kleegamefan]

I personnally think that if Sony keeps doing what they are doing I might even consider them better than Nintendo at making and producing games.

:O

Well, of course Nintendo is the best developer in the world and have been for many years, I would rank Sony WW as a close 2nd....

Any game genre you can think of, Sony WW Studios can probably produce a quality title in that genre......any genere...

Furthermore, Sony provide a steady stream of titles year round, not to mention they can produce good games for specific regions (EU, US, JAP) as well as a worldwide hit

Nintendo is more limited in quantity of great software, but the ultimate quality of some of thier big games are off the charts....


So yes, I think you can mention Sony WW Studios and Nintendo in the same breath now......an amazing achievement for Sony, IMO....

 

[Kleegamefan]

The modelling is very good, especially the faces,

Seems like a nice jump over the first game. I hope Guerrilla can replicate the facial expressions in the trailer in the final game, because they were complete gash in Killzone PS2 - it spoiled the overall appearance of the human characters.

I recognize the Killzone PS3 guy, but who is the guy on the left and where is he from??

 

[TTP]

I recognize the Killzone PS3 guy, but who is the guy on the left and where is he from??

The first Killzone on PS2, most probably from a pre-rendered cutscene but I'm not sure. Here is a better picture of how the guy looked like in-game.

Edit: Thanks Wax

 

[Gek54]

The first Killzone on PS2, most probably from a pre-rendered cutscene but I'm not sure. Here is a better picture of how the guy looked like in-game.

Edit: Thanks Wax

No they, looked that good durring gameplay at a certain distance.

 

[TTP]

No they, looked that good durring gameplay at a certain distance.

Yeah, I remember them looking good but memories can sometimes trick you, so I decided to be more cautious in my post

 

[mckmas8808]

You had to. You had to say it.

*puts on protective sweater*

Damn I take it back. Fuck *slaps forehead* I messed up a damn good thread.

 

[dark10x]

Yeah, I remember them looking good but memories can sometimes trick you, so I decided to be more cautious in my post

If you look, though, you'll see a crosshair present in the PS2 shot.

 

[TTP]

If you look, though, you'll see a crosshair present in the PS2 shot.

Fuck yeah! Didn't notice!
Well, it's real then. Next Gen KZ is doable on PS3!

 

[kaching]

Once clue is that Insomniac is using Speed Tree tech but ND and Sony SM aren't using it.

Why is that a clue? Speed Tree should tech you can plug into any game engine, right? If there really is a collaboration on a game engine going on, it doesn't necessarily cover every single aspect that one or the other devs may need.

 

[mckmas8808]

Now the NT dev is saying....

The main source of sharing for us is a big portal that hosts lots of project by various teams in SCEE and SCEA. SCEE ATG for example have a big bit on there. We don't have access to everything but if we would like to use some tech we can ask to have access and then if allowed, can download it, share bug fixes, use its forums, emails, IM etc.

There is also the normal PS3 forums which connect all PS3 devs across the world.

Don't know how it works for Guerilla etc. but simple proximity (we are in the some physical building as SCEE Cambridge) and personal friendships, mean NT virtually always bug ATG about everything, as poor ol' DeanA knows only too well

The other non-physical aspect, is a fairly open forum via visits, emails etc. to dicuss ideas etc. We can (and have) chatted to various game teams as well as the shared source bits, which is very handy as we are often tackling the same non-technical problems as well.

He is giving us a great source of infomation w/o breaking NDA's of course. I can't wait until the Feb. Sony embargo is over. TTP can you enlighten us a little more about what you know about the embargo?

 

[TTP]

He is giving us a great source of infomation w/o breaking NDA's of course. I can't wait until the Feb. Sony embargo is over. TTP can you enlighten us a little more about what you know about the embargo?

The EA one? All I know is that there has been a print media only meeting with the executive producer of Medal of Honor Airborne ("which is in development for PS3 and will be released during 2006") on December 6th (at least here, in my country, but I guess other meetings took place throughout Europe and US on different dates).

I didn't attend the meeting so don't ask me to share impressions but expect something on next month mags 'cos that EA embargo will end on February 1st.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Don't know how it works for Guerilla etc. but simple proximity (we are in the some physical building as SCEE Cambridge) and personal friendships, mean NT virtually always bug ATG about everything, as poor ol' DeanA knows only too well

Yah, Sony's definetly about to buy them.