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[SwolBro]

Pretty low bar you're setting there buddy.

You'd do yourself a favor by reading up on level design articles from seasoned developers instead of this pitiful attempt at meta trolling. I've seen it all before and you look silly when you're playing devil's advocate to make a point.

Sanctuary isn't a good map? Lolwut?

yeah, wait. when was sanctuary not a good map? it's considered one of the classics.

 

[wesleyshark]

Sanctuary isn't a good map? Lolwut?

Yeah wth... Sanctuary was a fantastic map.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Yeah wth... Sanctuary was a fantastic map.

Painting it as the pinnacle of map design is downright comical, especially given how worn out its meta has grown in recent years.

 

[SwolBro]

Painting it as the pinnacle of map design is downright comical, especially given how worn out its meta has grown in recent years.

well that i agree with. i rather not see it remade this time around

 

[Twilight Gap]

well that i agree with. i rather not see it remade this time around

Most pro players would be content shooting each other from two towers for the rest of their Halo career because it's easy, and that's fine.

There are however a fair amount of them that are ready for something new; thus, the goal for level designers going forward is going to be mixing that up so that elements of teamshoot are still absolutely viable, but are no longer limited to linear aggression and force-fed player decisions. Give that, Sanctuary is absolutely not a good map for the future of the series.

And inverse symmetry doesn't make a map Sanctuary

That design was scrapped right after I posted it by the way because - shockingly - the first or even the 10th idea you have isn't always viable.

 

[Walshicus]

Painting it as the pinnacle of map design is downright comical, especially given how worn out its meta has grown in recent years.

What the fuck does that even mean?

 

[Twilight Gap]

What the fuck does that even mean?

It means there is no new way to play on that design because its potential has been exhausted. And it has absolutely been exhausted because Sanctuary has been over represented in recent the last few games for competitive tournaments. We don't need another remake.

 

[The Real Napsta]

It means there is no new way to play on that design because its potential has been exhausted. And it has absolutely been exhausted because Sanctuary has been over represented in recent the last few games for competitive tournaments. We don't need another remake.

It's that really a fault of the map? Any map's meta will become worn out given enough time.

 

[Twilight Gap]

It's that really a fault of the map? Any map's meta will become worn out given enough time.

Not every map has the same amount of depth. 10 years is a good amount of time for a map to last, but there's no reason it can't be pushed further.

A good map will last longer than that; Damnation still has new meta being discovered as recently as this year.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Not every map has the same amount of depth. 10 years is a good amount of time for a map to last, but there's no reason it can't be pushed further.

A good map will last longer than that; Damnation still has new meta being discovered as recently as this year.

Can you link/explain about Damnation? I'm curious.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

The custom game creator in me is hyperventilating.

 

[SwolBro]

Not every map has the same amount of depth. 10 years is a good amount of time for a map to last, but there's no reason it can't be pushed further.

A good map will last longer than that; Damnation still has new meta being discovered as recently as this year.

That's because Damnation has been under appreciated for many years. It was my favorite CE map actually.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Can you link/explain about Damnation? I'm curious.

I'll look for the video I was referencing, but a quick search on Youtube should turn up new power weapon jumps and movement opportunities players have been finding (or variations on old ones).

I'm not big on Super Smash Bros anymore, but it's one of the reasons why Melee is played competitively more than Brawl or even the new game. It has more depth and that depth is still evolving to this day.

There are a variety of reasons why I would say a map isn't good, and that depth over time is an important part of it. I don't think Sanctuary is bad, but its design as it shipped has long since expired, and therefore I don't see a reason to bring it or maps built like it forward. Halo 5 will require a different design philosophy to incorporate its faster TTK and more mobile sandbox.

That's because Damnation has been under appreciated for many years. It was my favorite CE map actually.

Indeed, I'm glad it's getting its dues

 

[Twilight Gap]

stolen from another thread but just wanted to highlight how gorgeous this map looks

 

[SwolBro]

stolen from another thread but just wanted to highlight how gorgeous this map looks

this is from what game

 

[16BitNova]

stolen from another thread but just wanted to highlight how gorgeous this map looks

No way this is a Halo 5 forge map?.. Is it?

 

[Twilight Gap]

They're WIPs from Unreal Tournament. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182764991&postcount=1333

 

[Gabotron ES]

Pegasus final look, huge improvement over the beta imo.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Dammy video i was referring to earlier. Most of these are probably old tricks, but the variations on them give the map incredible replay value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zT0bLX9mu0

I'm very excited to build for the new abilities, especially Ground Pound. Maps are going to open up to a whole suite of different movement opportunities. It's almost a soft censor to remakes in the sense that we really need new philosophies this time around.

 

[op_ivy]

Pegasus final look, huge improvement over the beta imo.

wow, they significantly changed the layout.

 

[Ramirez]

Does Zoba have exposure to Sanctuary outside of that awful Bungie Forge remake in Reach? ;P

But really, Sanctuary is not a "bad" map, maybe not your cup of tea, but come on now.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Does Zoba have exposure to Sanctuary outside of that awful Bungie Forge remake in Reach? ;P

But really, Sanctuary is not a "bad" map, maybe not your cup of tea, but come on now.

I don't think it's bad, just think its design was undercooked.

Asylum though? Jesus, now that was bad, and it played even worse with Jetpack lol. I remember we had to test like five Sanctuary remakes when we were trying to replace it and I think all of them got rejected because of framerate problems in splitscreen. Meanwhile, Asylum had that one where you scope from Snipe to Sniper and got framerate drops. We could at least play on a map that didn't have broken boundaries...

 

[TheOhrenberger.]

Sactuary is one of the all time great Halo maps. The fuck are you on, Zoba?

 

[op_ivy]

Does Zoba have exposure to Sanctuary outside of that awful Bungie Forge remake in Reach? ;P

But really, Sanctuary is not a "bad" map, maybe not your cup of tea, but come on now.

but he read some articles, watched some webinars. if that doesnt give you the right to expertly critique a professionals work and dismiss opinions, i dont know what would.

 

[Ramirez]

My personal GOATY map is Paradiso, just Carnie and Chad messing around in Forge, creating masterpieces.

 

[Twilight Gap]

but he read some articles, watched some webinars. if that doesnt give you the right to expertly critique a professionals work and dismiss opinions, i dont know what would.

Give or take the years playing the game competitively and collaboratively with people in the industry.

I mean if we want to go there.

My personal GOATY map is Paradiso, just Carnie and Chad messing around in Forge, creating masterpieces.

No Cragmire? For shame. Fyre's legacy must live on.

 

[Nutter]

Pretty low bar you're setting there buddy.

You'd do yourself a favor by reading up on level design articles from seasoned developers instead of this pitiful attempt at meta trolling. I've seen it all before and you look silly when you're playing devil's advocate to make a point.

I will be awaiting with bated breath for your awesome forge maps. So you can show us how you are a map creator God!

I also love how this guy can use the "years of playing experience" line. As if others experience since 2001 is somehow mute.

 

[BokehKing]

Got a couple of forge questions since I will be very new to this

If I make a map, Who can play it?

Is there a community playlist of just forge maps?

Is there a process internally in game or people sitting at 343 that determine the map is simply unplayable?

If there is no community playlist for forge maps where randoms can just play my map, can I simply share it with Halo GAF

Last question, how many people can work on a singular map?

 

[Twilight Gap]

I will be awaiting with bated breath for your awesome forge maps. So you can show us how you are a map creator God!

Absolutely.

I'll be posting any level design work I do here until the Forge OT and will be very forthcoming about that design process. It's a fascinating subject and one I continue to grow in understanding.

I'm expecting to stumble on the way and learn from that. I'm never satisfied with what I create, and ever since I've started I have challenged myself to be more ambitious.

Everyone has different experiences and feelings about what makes the maps for them. For me, I have my sights set much higher than most.

I enjoy building maps and taking them apart. Hope to see you guys share in the fun.

I also love how this guy can use the "years of playing experience" line. As if others experience since 2001 is somehow mute.

I've also been playing since 2001. But if all it took was hours put into the game, everyone would be "professionals". That knowledge isn't going to come to you just like that, and it isn't going to grow if you don't seek it out. I didn't know anything about level design when I started forging and it's why all my early stuff were complete trash.

 

[wesleyshark]

I will be awaiting with bated breath for your awesome forge maps. So you can show us how you are a map creator God!

I also love how this guy can use the "years of playing experience" line. As if others experience since 2001 is somehow mute.

Your views and opinions are invalid and wrong. There is only ZobaForge.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Got a couple of forge questions since I will be very new to this

If I make a map, Who can play it?

Is there a community playlist of just forge maps?

Is there a process internally in game or people sitting at 343 that determine the map is simply unplayable?

If there is no community playlist for forge maps where randoms can just play my map, can I simply share it with Halo GAF

Last question, how many people can work on a singular map?

1. Anyone who downloads your map should be able to play on your map. If it ends up in matchmaking, anyone will be able to play it.

2. 343 hasn't mentioned any community playlists but there might be a few of those.

3. If your map is being considered for matchmaking, it is brought to 343's attention by their Community Cartographers and stress tested with 343 to see if it meets their requirements. If it's "unplayable", it wont get to that stage.

4. I don't know how many people can Forge simultaneously, but it was 8 in the past.

 

[SwolBro]

Map creation is some of the hardest things to do. Bungie can't create a map worth shit anymore and it doesn't look like 343i can either.

Bungie hasn't made a decent map since when? The Pit in halo 3?

343i couldn't manage 1 decent map in Halo 4.

 

[Jessie.Bristol]

Pegasus final look, huge improvement over the beta imo.

Yeah, seen this during Roy's stream when they were doing Pro 8's. First thing I thought was "What the hell?" because of layout & lighting changes. Looks decent though.

 

[blue_phazon]

Map creation is some of the hardest things to do. Bungie can't create a map worth shit anymore and it doesn't look like 343i can either.

Bungie hasn't made a decent map since when? The Pit in halo 3?

343i couldn't manage 1 decent map in Halo 4.

I like Bannerfall in Destiny

 

[Raide]

Map creation is some of the hardest things to do. Bungie can't create a map worth shit anymore and it doesn't look like 343i can either.

Bungie hasn't made a decent map since when? The Pit in halo 3?

343i couldn't manage 1 decent map in Halo 4.

I think that is because they started making MP maps based upon the SP, instead of crafting MP maps for that purpose. It never really works to have sections of a SP game carved up to make MP maps.

Also the style of gameplay has changed. Its not all about tight arena maps anymore, people want more larger and action filled maps.

Hopefully the new Forge will help Forgers design some much more unique maps.

 

[FyreWulff]

I think that is because they started making MP maps based upon the SP

This is false. The only MP map in Reach that started as a campaign map was Boneyard. Every other map was MP first and later put into the campaign.

 

[Ramirez]

Pegasus final look, huge improvement over the beta imo.

Wow, it's so small now, not sure how I feel about that.

 

[op_ivy]

Wow, it's so small now, not sure how I feel about that.

Should make it slightly harder to hold hill. That's a good thing.

 

[Ramirez]

Should make it slightly harder to hold hill. That's a good thing.

I dunno, they took out an entire section that you could attack it from, lol. I maintain radar was the problem on that map, would have loved to play it without it.

 

[Twilight Gap]

The colors are pretty cool, but that dead end at 1:25 though

No teleporter or anything?

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

I'm only seeing white placeable lights and that's sorta freaking me out. The lighting options of past forge iterations left a LOT to be desired. It's an extremely welcome change to be able to place more lights, but if I can only place white lights I'm not too happy about it anymore to be honest. Varied lighting plays a huge part in making geometrically simple maps stand out and look great.

Well, at least interior maps won't be totally dark and bland anymore.

 

[NOKYARD]

I'm only seeing white placeable lights and that's sorta freaking me out. The lighting options of past forge iterations left a LOT to be desired. It's an extremely welcome change to be able to place more lights, but if I can only place white lights I'm not too happy about it anymore to be honest. Varied lighting plays a huge part in making geometrically simple maps stand out and look great.

Well, at least interior maps won't be totally dark and bland anymore.

No need to freak out. I placed Blue flood lights and Amber warning lights on my map.

 

[Gabotron ES]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVQ4Bp7vlwc

 

[Raide]

No need to freak out. I placed Blue flood lights and Amber warning lights on my map.

I saw you on the Sprint Episode!!

Edit: Damn Forge looks really good. Seems more like an actual level editor now. I just hope 343 keep supporting it with new content to keep things fresh.

 

[Gabotron ES]

Stinkles you there? would it be possible to get proper footage of the BTB maps? that longbow remake looks very good!

 

[nillapuddin]

Forge Thoughts,

Spoiler

prologue

Ive ran around Orion and Pegasus in customs quite a bit, looking at various pieces, figuring out how certain shapes and structures are made, and even though I havent used it hands-on, I know enough about Forge to spot a 3x4 ; )

So the first thing that jumped out at me when on Orion was this

No Player shadows, on forge pieces or terrain.

Slightly Disappointing since..

Nevertheless

Shadow Softness vs LOD

There is a small amount of visual fuzz around seemingly all shadow lines created by Forge objects

As some of you may remember, one of the biggest things Ive harped on, and included in the Forging the Future (FUD feature that Fuchsdh set up with Pete The Duck and I) was the shadows..

Halo 4 Forge had great exterior shadows, within 5 feet, but when across the map...

This is not present in Halo 5, shadows are much more defined, even from great distance, however they dont neccesarily sharpen up a huge amount when closer. So they have found a way to make the shadows vastly improved at all distances, with the trade off they do not sharpen up to 100% when you are in close proximity. I can live with this change, although soft, the shadows are accurate, and the LOD at distance is far worth the tradeoff.

 

[Karl2177]

The no player shadows might be because they didn't set those pieces for shadows. It's not likely, but it is a possibility.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

The staggered feature launch of Halo 5 (BTB, Forge etc.) stings a bit, but it's incredibly smart to keep it talked about and relevant through the holiday period. Otherwise it could have been suffocated by the likes of Battlefront. Instead, it may actually get a strong second wind.

At first I was like "why are they making us wait?"
...and now I'm like "well played 343i, extremely well played".

Xmas is going to be a great period to be a Spartan me thinks.

 

[Cuzco]

I really hope there is a lobby style type of matchmaking for popular forge games, i.e Starcraft 2 Arcade.

 

[nillapuddin]

fuck fuck fuck

just noticed this today

guess the cross map jaggies are still in