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[RAIDEN1]

I think with new developers at the helm with Halo Wars 2, the spotlight will be on to bring about a game that is as close to being as good if not better than the original Halo Wars....hopefully the single player campaign will have a better story to it than Halo 5...not to say I thought Halo 5's was bad in anyway, but clearly there was a feeling that it didn't pack a punch as it was alluding to pre-release with all the Hunt the truth talk...

 

[Poodlestrike]

More like a smear piece IMO. Stomps all over Nylund's great characterization.

Nylund's characterization wasn't so hot either. Traviss overcorrected, severely, but Nylund's Halsey was bordering on Mary Sue territory. Supergenius, expert in, like, every scientific field, wise, pragmatic but never harsh, everyone who disagreed or disliked her was just off on some irrational personal vendetta and deserved whatever they got.

Current portrayal is much, much better. Especially in Spartan Ops and Halo 5.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Looking back, I think the great failing of the Kilo-5 trilogy was that it felt like Traviss had one book's worth of thematic stuff, and the rest ended up being filler that was used to kick the universe forward for the games. Mortal Dictata was the only book that really got into the questions of Halsey's actions in a deep way that we'd never gotten anywhere else, and was the only book that felt like it stood on its own, compared to how much legwork Thursday War had to do with Jul or establishing the Halo 4 status quo with Glasslands.*

*Also, given how much time they had to work with in the play between early 2553 and 2558 with Halo 4 showing up, if I could wave my magic rewrite wand, I'd have stuck Halsey and the Spartans in Onyx for longer. Some chair-scraping was going to have to happen to get the pieces back where they were needed (and to be frank, Nylund's ending to Ghosts of Onyx was great for an ending, absolutely piss-poor for continuing the franchise) but they could have been a bit more elegant about it.

 

[kosmologi]

Nylund's characterization wasn't so hot either. Traviss overcorrected, severely, but Nylund's Halsey was bordering on Mary Sue territory. Supergenius, expert in, like, every scientific field, wise, pragmatic but never harsh, everyone who disagreed or disliked her was just off on some irrational personal vendetta and deserved whatever they got.

Current portrayal is much, much better. Especially in Spartan Ops and Halo 5.

Personally I like Nylund's style because he doesn't push his agenda too much the reader. It's up to the reader to make the conclusions about the characters' actions. And like Bungie, he didn't take the universe too seriously.

Traviss, on the other hand, wasted at least one and a half books to smear Halsey when she could have concentrated on telling stories about one of the more interesting eras in Halo timeline (post war before Requiem). She also retconned way too many important technological, historical and cultural stuff in the lore, but that's more a rule than an exception now that 343 is developing the franchise.

 

[Monocle]

Nylund isn't some Halo author deity. So many folks put him on the highest pedestal.

Nylund is great because he defined a huge swath of Halo's extended universe with vivid imagination and great attention to detail, but more importantly an apt and consistent tone that showed readers the shades of gray in characters and events without driving them toward a preordained conclusion. He certainly never imposed his personal moral judgments.

Karen Traviss's work is childish next to Nylund's important contributions to Halo lore. Her main strong suit IMO is giving life to new or once-marginal characters like Black Box and Margaret Parangosky. Evidently she has no respect whatsoever for established characters and canon, considering how she dragged Halsey through the mud and made her despised by nearly everyone who ever knew her.

Nylund's characterization wasn't so hot either. Traviss overcorrected, severely, but Nylund's Halsey was bordering on Mary Sue territory. Supergenius, expert in, like, every scientific field, wise, pragmatic but never harsh, everyone who disagreed or disliked her was just off on some irrational personal vendetta and deserved whatever they got.

This Mary Sue madness has got to stop. Yes, she's a once-in-a-century genius, but Nylund also portrayed Dr. Halsey with flaws and considerable frailty. He just didn't get all preachy through the mouths of the other characters. Before Traviss stepped in, we already knew Halsey to be manipulative, capable of monstrous acts that she justified with utilitarian reasoning, and greatly conflicted about her past actions. She was a complex and sympathetic character with serious demons and a formidable capacity to help or harm—sometimes both at once. Then Traviss showed up and literally compared her to Josef Mengele. I mean... GTFO, lady. That shit is amateur hour.

Current portrayal is much, much better. Especially in Spartan Ops and Halo 5.

Agreed. Mostly in Halo 5, though. The Halsey hate train was still chugging merrily away in Spartan Ops, what with Osman and Palmer constantly at her throat.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Personally I like Nylund's style because he doesn't push his agenda too much the reader. It's up to the reader to make the conclusions about the characters' actions. And like Bungie, he didn't take the universe too seriously.

Traviss, on the other hand, wasted at least one and a half books to smear Halsey when she could have concentrated on telling stories about one of the more interesting eras in Halo timeline (post war before Requiem). She also retconned way too many important technological, historical and cultural stuff in the lore, but that's more a rule than an exception now that 343 is developing the franchise.

This is said so many times, and yet never backed up by actual evidence.

 

[Squire]

There are so many layers to how Halsey is written in Glasslands. The character is trying to grow. I find her incredibly sympathetic. She has adversarial relationships and for pretty decent reasons.

I'm only one book in, but I'm really not sold on the "smearing/dragged through the mud" stuff.

 

[AlStrong]

This is said so many times, and yet never backed up by actual evidence.

Yeah, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, though it's been a while since I've read both sets of books. *shrug*

The only really cool tech stuff I remember was the PoA's triple firing MAC & the laser cooled engines. The Covenant ship weaponry got a little confusing for me when Cortana started doing fancy stuff with the Ascendant Justice and just what sort of stuff the Covenant could actually do.

 

[Fuchsdh]

There are so many layers to how Halsey is written in Glasslands. The character is trying to grow. I find her incredibly sympathetic. She has adversarial relationships and for pretty decent reasons.

I'm only one book in, but I'm really not sold on the "smearing/dragged through the mud" stuff.

I think it really comes down to the number of characters sharing the same view, mostly in Glasslands. It's certainly a little repetitive (like the 'as the humans say' lines.) The differences of opinion about what she did don't really come up much until Mortal Dictata.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Nylund is great because he defined a huge swath of Halo's extended universe with vivid imagination and great attention to detail, but more importantly an apt and consistent tone that showed readers the shades of gray in characters and events without driving them toward a preordained conclusion. He certainly never imposed his personal moral judgments.

Karen Traviss's work is childish next to Nylund's important contributions to Halo lore. Her main strong suit IMO is giving life to new or once-marginal characters like Black Box and Margaret Parangosky. Evidently she has no respect whatsoever for established characters and canon, considering how she dragged Halsey through the mud and made her despised by nearly everyone who ever knew her.



This Mary Sue madness has got to stop. Yes, she's a once-in-a-century genius, but Nylund also portrayed Dr. Halsey with flaws and considerable frailty. He just didn't get all preachy through the mouths of the other characters. Before Traviss stepped in, we already knew Halsey to be manipulative, capable of monstrous acts that she justified with utilitarian reasoning, and greatly conflicted about her past actions. She was a complex and sympathetic character with serious demons and a formidable capacity to help or harm—sometimes both at once. Then Traviss showed up and literally compared her to Josef Mengele. I mean... GTFO, lady. That shit is amateur hour.


Agreed. Mostly in Halo 5, though. The Halsey hate train was still chugging merrily away in Spartan Ops, what with Osman and Palmer constantly at her throat.

Mary Sues frequently have a "fatal flaw" that's not really a flaw at all. Halsey's is that she "cares too much" about her Spartans. That's the sort of answer I'd give if asked what my greatest weakness is in a job interview.

Now, she's not a Sue; she's borderline. So you're right about that. But her "internal conflict" was largely moot since every single person and sign in the universe pointed to her being fully in the right. It's the sort of thing added for sympathy points, not as a real character study.

Spartan Ops gets in because yeah, Osman and Palmer hate her, but they've got reason. On any big ethical question there are going to be people who are ambivalent (Thorne) and people who fall into either "agree strongly" and "disagree strongly." Granted, we never see the former (because child soldiers are a tough thing to argue in favor of), but I don't see it as at all unreasonable that some people are going to hate the hell out of Halsey. Osman has especially good reasons. The problem in Glasslands is that LITERALLY EVERYBODY (Even Mendez and Paragonsky, for chrissake) fell into the "fuck that bitch" pile, and no time was spent asking whether or not it might have been ultimately worth it. SpOps handles it with much more nuance.

On the tech thing, it's worth noting that the single most over-the-top piece of tech in the series was in Fall of Reach (Pillar of Autumn's Thermodynamics-defying reactor), so really we're in a much better place now

 

[Fuchsdh]

Mary Sues frequently have a "fatal flaw" that's not really a flaw at all. Halsey's is that she "cares too much" about her Spartans. That's the sort of answer I'd give if asked what my greatest weakness is in a job interview.

Now, she's not a Sue; she's borderline. So you're right about that. But her "internal conflict" was largely moot since every single person and sign in the universe pointed to her being fully in the right. It's the sort of thing added for sympathy points, not as a real character study.

Spartan Ops gets in because yeah, Osman and Palmer hate her, but they've got reason. On any big ethical question there are going to be people who are ambivalent (Thorne) and people who fall into either "agree strongly" and "disagree strongly." Granted, we never see the former (because child soldiers are a tough thing to argue in favor of), but I don't see it as at all unreasonable that some people are going to hate the hell out of Halsey. Osman has especially good reasons. The problem in Glasslands is that LITERALLY EVERYBODY (Even Mendez and Paragonsky, for chrissake) fell into the "fuck that bitch" pile, and no time was spent asking whether or not it might have been ultimately worth it. SpOps handles it with much more nuance.

On the tech thing, it's worth noting that the single most over-the-top piece of tech in the series was in Fall of Reach (Pillar of Autumn's Thermodynamics-defying reactor), so really we're in a much better place now

Honestly Mendez and Parangosky's reactions didn't bother me much at all. Mendez seems like a guy who just grew to hate what he did, saw the S-IIIs as a sort of penance, and maybe soured on that too after the losses started piling up.

Parangosky, meanwhile, is just a piece of work. I wouldn't even say she's externalizing her own insecurities or guilt, she's just the biggest bitch at the head of an organization that prides itself on being the biggest bastards around. We don't really know much of what she really thinks, we just get what she says to Halsey, and I think that's mostly about twisting the knife and making sure she does her best to utterly destroy her. There's a little bit of personal vengeance in there, for sure, but even to the end I think it's mostly pragmatic—hence why she sends Halsey to Requiem to help Infinity, and keeps her alive when she first captures her.

On a related note, though, I do wonder why Halsey wasn't publicly scape-goated with the Spartan-II program. She makes it plain to Halsey in Glasslands she intends to pin it all on her, but they don't follow through on it (and do the false-flag leak to discredit Ben in Hunt the Truth, although that's presumably Osman's doing.) I guess you can say that it was just another twist of the knife to dig into Halsey and Parangosky never actually meant to disclose it, which would make a certain amount of sense.

And another aside: obviously ONI was right there, making the Spartan-II project a reality, but do we actually know what role Parangosky played? She was only a rear admiral in 2511, so she might not have had direct approval on the project, although I suspect she probably would have been fully aware of it in its infancy.

 

[kosmologi]

This is said so many times, and yet never backed up by actual evidence.

What is "evidence"? This is fiction, and there are no facts in its interpretations. Besides, I've seen quite a few discussions about this here and there. A few retcons off the top of my head: Humans suddenly have instantaneous interstellar communication and ships that travel to Sanghelios in days (or hours). Many highly populated colonies apparently survived the war, and glassing apparently wasn't "common". This is stupid because it undermines the meaning of the original trilogy, and takes away the suspense of the story.

And yes, while these might not be straight up retcons, they are significant changes to the "balance" of the universe. Originally Humanity was the underdog, hopelessly underpowered in technological means. That created the suspense in the original trilogy and Nylund's books, and that's what is missing from the newer media. Humanity is too powerful and that makes the story seem boring and pointless to me. The fact that it was Traviss that enabled much of this in Kilo Five is just coincidence. Someone said somewhere that the "new" Halo is like Star Trek: every episode of the story sees the Infinity (or something else) in a difficult and dangerous situation, which is eventually dissolved with little to no impact to the overall story. Not much that happens really matters anymore.

Now it would've been fine if these changes had happened in a different timescale. If 343 had the courage to abandon every established character and continue the story from 2625, for example, there could have been believable development in the universe. But sadly the Halo universe isn't mature enough to have that.

 

[AlStrong]

Humans suddenly have instantaneous interstellar communication and ships that travel to Sanghelios in days (or hours).

Wouldn't that just be down to improvements from all the research and thousands of Engineers they captured?

Many highly populated colonies apparently survived the war

There are?

 

[kosmologi]

Wouldn't that just be down to improvements from all the research and thousands of Engineers they captured?

Engineers are a deus ex machina and plain lazy storytelling. One of the biggest mistakes Nylund and Staten made was including them in the story.

There are?

Cascade and Andesia, to name a couple. Others pop up every now and then when the writers or map designers decide they need new human environments. Earth's population collapse was also retconned since Halo 3. Venezia having not just survived the war but being populated by both humans and covenant aliens is just ridiculous, in my honest opinion.

 

[Poodlestrike]

What is "evidence"? This is fiction, and there are no facts in its interpretations. Besides, I've seen quite a few discussions about this here and there. A few retcons off the top of my head: Humans suddenly have instantaneous interstellar communication and ships that travel to Sanghelios in days (or hours). Many highly populated colonies apparently survived the war, and glassing apparently wasn't "common". This is stupid because it undermines the meaning of the original trilogy, and takes away the suspense of the story.

And yes, while these might not be straight up retcons, they are significant changes to the "balance" of the universe. Originally Humanity was the underdog, hopelessly underpowered in technological means. That created the suspense in the original trilogy and Nylund's books, and that's what is missing from the newer media. Humanity is too powerful and that makes the story seem boring and pointless to me. The fact that it was Traviss that enabled much of this in Kilo Five is just coincidence. Someone said somewhere that the "new" Halo is like Star Trek: every episode of the story sees the Infinity (or something else) in a difficult and dangerous situation, which is eventually dissolved with little to no impact to the overall story. Not much that happens really matters anymore.

Now it would've been fine if these changes had happened in a different timescale. If 343 had the courage to abandon every established character and continue the story from 2625, for example, there could have been believable development in the universe. But sadly the Halo universe isn't mature enough to have that.

Those... aren't retcons? That's a few years of post-war tech surge + Forerunner goodies.

As for the rest, of course many highly populated worlds survived. The Covenant basically stumbled across Earth by accident, and then the war was over. That's always been pretty clearly established.

Glassing was a show of force maneuver, and while they almost always exterminated the planetary population, they'd only occasionally bother to FULLY glass the planet, that's just too much effort. You could argue that it's a retcon, but since it's not like we saw every planet through to its end, it's kind of not.

As for the "humanity is too strong now" stuff, I've never gotten that. Yeah, they've got the Infinity, a ship that's finally as pound-for-pound tough as Covenant ships, but... it's the only one of its kind. Should the Elites ever get their shit together (or the Brutes, for that matter), they could roll over the UNSC fairly easily.

Engineers are a deus ex machina and plain lazy storytelling. One of the biggest mistakes Nylund and Staten made was including them in the story.



Cascade and Andesia, to name a couple. Others pop up every now and then when the writers or map designers decide they need new human environments. Earth's population collapse was also retconned since Halo 3. Venezia having not just survived the war but being populated by both humans and covenant aliens is just ridiculous, in my honest opinion.

That's not what deus ex machina means

 

[kosmologi]

That's not what deus ex machina means

What does it mean then? Enlighten me, English is not my native language.

Merriam-Webster says the following: "a character or thing that suddenly enters the story in a novel, play, movie, etc., and solves a problem that had previously seemed impossible to solve"

Slow FTL travel and comms were the problem, and the Engineers were provided as a deus ex machina solution to this (in the timeframe, like I said earlier using a different timeframe would make this ok), thus making the writing of Kilo Five and many other things much easier.

As for the "humanity is too strong now" stuff, I've never gotten that. Yeah, they've got the Infinity, a ship that's finally as pound-for-pound tough as Covenant ships, but... it's the only one of its kind. Should the Elites ever get their shit together (or the Brutes, for that matter), they could roll over the UNSC fairly easily.

I kind of agree with this, but again it's more about how the narrative is, than the in-universe reality. I don't think 343 has the balls to unite the Covenant species against humanity again, and the Infinity really should have taken a beating in Halo 5 like the ads suggested it might. Based on Halo 4 the UNSC had built a lot of new ships since the war, but we haven't seen them since so it's possible that's been pushed aside by the writers.

 

[Poodlestrike]

What does it mean then? Enlighten me, English is not my native language.

Merriam-Webster says the following: "a character or thing that suddenly enters the story in a novel, play, movie, etc., and solves a problem that had previously seemed impossible to solve"

Slow FTL travel and comms were the problem, and the Engineers were provided as a deus ex machina solution to this (in the timeframe, like I said earlier using a different timeframe would make this ok), thus making the writing of Kilo Five and many other things much easier.

Basically, Deus ex Machina is a storytelling tool where an unsolvable situation is solved by a newly introduced element. The traditional example is how in many Greek plays, the protagonists were ultimately saved by some god or another swooping in at the last minute, thus Deus ex Machina - god from the machine, the last word referring to the machinery that would propel the actor (or what have you) onto the stage.

Engineers are just being used as a plot convenience, helping explain humanity's rapid advancement. Different beast.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I see the complaint about things like the Spartan IVs and Infinity mostly just in that it seems like 343 missed an opportunity to offer a space post-war for some different kinds of stories. As it is we have Infinity and Spartans within six months of the end of the war, and while I do like conceptually the idea of last-ditch weapons that just never saw the light of day due to the sudden end of the war (and the implication that the Infinity would likely have been an Ark for humanity if Earth fell), you could have had that stuff come about in 2555 or 2556 without affecting Halo 4. As it is we've barely gotten anything in that period until Last Light/Hunters in the Dark.


On a quasi-related note, we've got a semi-new article about the dissolution and reformation of the Covenant up on FUD: "Glimmer of a Dying Star".

 

[kosmologi]

Basically, Deus ex Machina is a storytelling tool where an unsolvable situation is solved by a newly introduced element. The traditional example is how in many Greek plays, the protagonists were ultimately saved by some god or another swooping in at the last minute, thus Deus ex Machina - god from the machine, the last word referring to the machinery that would propel the actor (or what have you) onto the stage.

Engineers are just being used as a plot convenience, helping explain humanity's rapid advancement. Different beast.

Yeah, and the unsolvable situation here was humanity's technological backwardness. UNSC didn't know how to do stuff, but they were saved by ancient artificial floating aliens that are programmed to make every piece of tech infinitely better.

But whatever that stuff might be called, it doesn't take out the laziness from the writing. "Plot convenience" doesn't sound any better than deus ex machina in this context.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Yeah, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, though it's been a while since I've read both sets of books. *shrug*

The only really cool tech stuff I remember was the PoA's triple firing MAC & the laser cooled engines. The Covenant ship weaponry got a little confusing for me when Cortana started doing fancy stuff with the Ascendant Justice and just what sort of stuff the Covenant could actually do.

I've always loved this bit about Cortana reconfiguring Covie plasma control, I've been waiting to see it in game TBH. I wonder what sort of firepower or reconfigurations/upgrades she's going to bring in future games...

I also liked how Cortana used to say Covies imitated rather than innovated with Forerunner tech which made them inferior based on her knowledge of the full potential being exploited. The mirrored version of this where Halsey innovates off recovered Jackal shield tech to create the MJOLNIR shield system will forever be a favourite bit as well.

 

[shoreu]

More like a smear piece IMO. Stomps all over Nylund's great characterization.

Looking at it from two different sides. You can't tell me if you heard HTT first you would have thought she was a good person.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I've always loved this bit about Cortana reconfiguring Covie plasma control, I've been waiting to see it in game TBH. I wonder what sort of firepower or reconfigurations/upgrades she's going to bring in future games...

I also liked how Cortana used to say Covies imitated rather than innovated with Forerunner tech which made them inferior based on her knowledge of the full potential being exploited. The mirrored version of this where Halsey innovates off recovered Jackal shield tech to create the MJOLNIR shield system will forever be a favourite bit as well.

And more to the point, that's why the Engineers aren't the magic deus ex machina people are pointing to. Both the Prophets and the humans keep them on a short leash—the Prophets because it undermined their powerbase, the humans because no matter what cool things they do, Engineers don't leave technical manuals to explain themselves. If humanity started relying on the Engineers, they'd be up the same creek as the Covenant post-2552 if something happened to them. As it is, Infinity is already in a tenuous spot where Halsey was really the only true expert into Infinity's Forerunner upgrades.

 

[AlStrong]

I've always loved this bit about Cortana reconfiguring Covie plasma control, I've been waiting to see it in game TBH. I wonder what sort of firepower or reconfigurations/upgrades she's going to bring in future games...

hm... my memory is pretty fuzzy, but I sort of remember her also doing something along the lines of a super laser? When the carrier was firing in Halo 2, I sort of figured the Covenant somehow magically figured out how to do it, or maybe I'm missing some other explanation about that.

 

[Fuchsdh]

hm... my memory is pretty fuzzy, but I sort of remember her also doing something along the lines of a super laser? When the carrier was firing in Halo 2, I sort of figured the Covenant somehow magically figured out how to do it, or maybe I'm missing some other explanation about that.

I dunno if the Covenant got access to anything else, but the rogue AI managed to let the Covenant know about her improvements to slipspace that allowed them to jump very close to a planet and do in-atmosphere jumps, which is what enabled Regret to hightail it out of there.

 

[AlStrong]

I dunno if the Covenant got access to anything else, but the rogue AI managed to let the Covenant know about her improvements to slipspace that allowed them to jump very close to a planet and do in-atmosphere jumps, which is what enabled Regret to hightail it out of there.

Oooooh right. That rings a bell. hm... oh wait, I do vaguely recall that Cortana was glad that her weapon improvements were after tearing apart the Covie AI. hm........

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

And more to the point, that's why the Engineers aren't the magic deus ex machina people are pointing to. Both the Prophets and the humans keep them on a short leash—the Prophets because it undermined their powerbase, the humans because no matter what cool things they do, Engineers don't leave technical manuals to explain themselves. If humanity started relying on the Engineers, they'd be up the same creek as the Covenant post-2552 if something happened to them. As it is, Infinity is already in a tenuous spot where Halsey was really the only true expert into Infinity's Forerunner upgrades.

So true on both counts.

hm... my memory is pretty fuzzy, but I sort of remember her also doing something along the lines of a super laser? When the carrier was firing in Halo 2, I sort of figured the Covenant somehow magically figured out how to do it, or maybe I'm missing some other explanation about that.

Yep that's the part I was talking about, she took out a bunch of Covie vessels with that winning move and pinpoint super lazer she upgraded too. Covies never got that tech upgrade and I don't think we've seen it used anywhere else.

The closest I can think of is the Forerunner terminals showing their hand weapons firing in a very similar precision lazer style. I like to think Cortana leaped over the Covie tech and went right into exceeding the Forerunner tech potential of such weapons.

 

[GrimBrother One]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-bulkhead-banter

<3

 

[Poodlestrike]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-bulkhead-banter

<3

Looking forward to the new comics. Was skimming the names and thought you guys had gotten Dustin Nguyen for a minute, now that would have been a coup

I love the Fleet Battles tidbits btw.

 

[Blue Ninja]

So I'm finally reading Hunters in the Dark and there's just one thing I can't get out of my head...

At the end of Halo 3, Installation 04B fires, killing the Flood on its qurdace and the Ark. Naturally, this should kill all life capable of sustaining the Flood as well.

Then why are there Blind Wolves and space whales on the Ark's surface? It just doesn't make any sense. I hope it's explained, but I doubt it will be. Feels so sloppy.

 

[Fuchsdh]

So I'm finally reading Hunters in the Dark and there's just one thing I can't get out of my head...

At the end of Halo 3, Installation 04B fires, killing the Flood on its qurdace and the Ark. Naturally, this should kill all life capable of sustaining the Flood as well.

Then why are there Blind Wolves and space whales on the Ark's surface? It just doesn't make any sense. I hope it's explained, but I doubt it will be. Feels so sloppy.

Simplest answer to that is Tragic Solitude reseeded it like any other portion of the galaxy would have been after the activation.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

So I'm finally reading Hunters in the Dark and there's just one thing I can't get out of my head...

At the end of Halo 3, Installation 04B fires, killing the Flood on its qurdace and the Ark. Naturally, this should kill all life capable of sustaining the Flood as well.

Then why are there Blind Wolves and space whales on the Ark's surface? It just doesn't make any sense. I hope it's explained, but I doubt it will be. Feels so sloppy.

The pulse never fully fired. The ring wasn't yet structurally stable, causing it to self-destruct from the attempted firing. The Flood (which were heavily localized) were wiped out by the explosion, not the actual super-weapon.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Simplest answer to that is Tragic Solitude reseeded it like any other portion of the galaxy would have been after the activation.

That kinda makes sense, I suppose he'd still have samples. Would make those space whales awful fast growers, though.

The pulse never fully fired. The ring wasn't yet structurally stable, causing it to self-destruct from the attempted firing. The Flood (which were heavily localized) were wiped out by the explosion.

This answer just feels sloppy. Yes, the whole point of Cortana's gambit was to draw all the Flood outside the galaxy, but to have them localized enough that one explosion kills them? No way. There'd still be some left.

 

[Fuchsdh]

That kinda makes sense, I suppose he'd still have samples. Would make those space whales awful fast growers, though.

Based on what we see in Origins and Silentium, I'm presuming that the indexing includes both live, grown animals as well as stuff you grew in a lab.

 

[SpartanN92]

Nylund isn't some Halo author deity. So many folks put him on the highest pedestal.

Take that back... He IS the Halo EU

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

This answer just feels sloppy. Yes, the whole point of Cortana's gambit was to draw all the Flood outside the galaxy, but to have them localized enough that one explosion kills them? No way. There'd still be some left.

Regardless, that's the case. It's explicitly laid out in Halo 3's ending.

And you're kind of misrepresenting the scale. The explosion of a 10,000km superstructure isn't exactly nothing. And we know the blast razed a significant portion of the Ark's surface.

Presumably there may have been some Flood that survived, by the remainder would have been wiped out by surviving sentinels. The vast majority of the Flood were on the actual Halo ring itself, rather than the Ark, so most died there when the ring finally blew.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Based on what we see in Origins and Silentium, I'm presuming that the indexing includes both live, grown animals as well as stuff you grew in a lab.

Yeah, I suppose that's true, maybe they had some locked in stasis.

Regardless, that's the case. It's explicitly laid out in Halo 3's ending.

And you're kind of misrepresenting the scale. The explosion of a 10,000km superstructure isn't exactly nothing. And we know the blast razed a significant portion of the Ark's surface.

Presumably there may have been some Flood that survived, by the remainder would have been wiped out by surviving sentinels. The vast majority of the Flood were on the actual Halo ring itself, rather than the Ark, so most died there when the ring finally blew.

I see your point, but Halo 3's ending pretty clearly says the ring fires, but is destroyed because it's not ready. It's the reason 343 GS finally goes crazy. Cortana explicitly says "When Halo fired..." so no, I don't think "a failed pulse" really qualifies. The ring fired.

That said, the entire premise of Halo 3's ending is somewhat faulty, as the rings were originally meant to kill the Flood's food, not the Flood itself. So the idea of the Halo's destruction wiping out a large portion of them has some more merit in that regard. You know, considering it's the only way they could've died. However, that idea seems to have been retconned, so I'm not sure if it still applies. It was a large explosion, sure, but the ring still fired.

Regardless, it feels sloppy and contrived, especially if it's never explained. Nothing on the Ark's surface should be alive, least of all gigantic space whales.

Anyway, it doesn't feel worth discussing if 343 or the writer never paid it any thought. Not very impressed by this one, I hope Last Light is better.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

The series' depiction of what the Halo weapon does changes constantly across the games and books, and while Halo CE explicitly states that it doesn't kill the Flood, but rather starves it, more recent depictions seem to settle on it killing all life of a significant biomass, Flood included. Presumably that wouldn't affect Flood spores though, so technically the initial description is accurate, as they would have nothing significant capable of infecting and would then "starve".

Regarding Halo 3's ending, the ring begins to self-destruct the moment the weapon begins priming, and detonates as it attempts to fire. Considering that and the fact that the Dawn is still in the system when the ring explodes, I think it's safe to say the actual super weapon was never able to complete the firing sequence, especially considering both Chief and the Arbiter survived.

As far as Cortana's plan goes, you're right in that there's inconsistencies there. However there is a short story that actually points out the discrepancies between the actual events and what Cortana's initial plan theoretically was. So far there's been no payoff, buy the hook is still there.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Regarding Halo 3's ending, the ring begins to self-destruct the moment the weapon begins priming, and detonates as it attempts to fire. Considering that and the fact that the Dawn is still in the system when the ring explodes, I think it's safe to say the actual super weapon was never able to complete the firing sequence, especially considering both Chief and the Arbiter survived.

This part I think isn't really a good indicator of anything but dramatic touches, because if the pulse under normal circumstances traveled as slow as observed in that cutscene, the galaxy would never be wiped clean of the Flood.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

This part I think isn't really a good indicator of anything but dramatic touches, because if the pulse under normal circumstances traveled as slow as observed in that cutscene, the galaxy would never be wiped clean of the Flood.

I'm saying that's not the pulse though. That's the explosion of the ring itself.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Based on what we see in Origins and Silentium, I'm presuming that the indexing includes both live, grown animals as well as stuff you grew in a lab.

I've always just assumed they can restore indexed samples to whatever state or point in time they choose. There was that terminal where various species appeared out of their storage and I sort of assumed they just spat them out at that physical age and with those memories etc.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I've always just assumed they can restore indexed samples to whatever state or point in time they choose. There was that terminal where various species appeared out of their storage and I sort of assumed they just spat them out at that physical age and with those memories etc.

Well at least with the humans they were kept alive on the Ark, and in Origins you see I believe Sangheili at least getting "released".

The abilities of the Forerunner to clone and manipulate living beings is never really defined, although presumably if they have the ability to manipulate genetic memory they could do something similar.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I was reminded that this thread exists, and I have to say, Tyrant's lore description is goooooood.

 

[User 73706]

I didn't realize this thread was still alive. Anyways, crossposting from the H5G OT:

So, question: considering Cortana's needed Chief as a physical interface in almost every instance of her working with Forerunner technology, how the heck can she be expected to mess with Builder installations (such as the Halo array)? Working with Warrior-Servant tech (e.g. controlling Soldiers) is a little different because

a. after being in the Domain she probably figured out how to assume control over automata that weren't giant galaxy-spanning death lasers, and
b. I'm sure she had less difficulty running the Guardians considering the Warden was going out and buying her booze even though she's only like 8 or 9 years old

I have to wonder if that's going to be explored / become a plot point in Halo 6, because then it'd have a pretty clear mirror in the UNSC / Covenant and Creators / Created, considering she'd need to coerce humans to fire stuff off for her.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I didn't realize this thread was still alive. Anyways, crossposting from the H5G OT:

I think it comes down to the Mantle. She's trying to seize it from humanity, but it's not really clear that she has it. So she'll either have to figure out how to do it, or else bypass it by doing something like coercing people. It'll be interesting for sure.

 

[User 73706]

I think it comes down to the Mantle. She's trying to seize it from humanity, but it's not really clear that she has it. So she'll either have to figure out how to do it, or else bypass it by doing something like coercing people. It'll be interesting for sure.

I'm also curious as to whether the Assembly is still in play, and if their goal of ensuring Humanity's survival for the next 200,000 years revolves around "Mantle humanity" or humanity humanity. I'm half-expecting them to be the obligatory "third act, third-party" twist in Halo 6, but with less clear motivations than "throw Cortana into space prison."

EDIT: Also, after consuming literally any other sci-fi media than Halo, I'm at a point now where I wish factions didn't put such a dependence on race / species in the Halo universe. We're kinda getting there in-game with stuff like the civil war on Sanghelios, but as-is I feel like that's always been a stumbling block with the game design in that Bungie / 343 have generally always pigeonholed humanity / alien race A into "good guys", alien races B, C, and D into "bad guys", etc.

Given the political climate and Cortana's supposed willingness to actually bring species / civilizations onboard that don't mind her rule (and we've had people on this very board in favor of Cortana's power structure), it'd be cool if they took an XCOM approach and had private military companies of humans / even human-alien cooperative factions operating under her, rather than just assuming all of humanity would immediately rally with the UNSC.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Oh, you know what'd be cool? Having the Assembly as a counter-organization to the Created, giving rebel humans and aliens a fighting chance.

 

[Outrun]

Nylund's characterization wasn't so hot either. Traviss overcorrected, severely, but Nylund's Halsey was bordering on Mary Sue territory. Supergenius, expert in, like, every scientific field, wise, pragmatic but never harsh, everyone who disagreed or disliked her was just off on some irrational personal vendetta and deserved whatever they got.

Current portrayal is much, much better. Especially in Spartan Ops and Halo 5.

I think that the current portrayal is much more nuanced. I prefer it also.

 

[GringoSuave89]

The Assembly is such an interesting concept, and before Halo 5 I didn't think in a million years they would be brought back. But now? It's very likely.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I think that the current portrayal is much more nuanced. I prefer it also.

I'm really not seeing the nuance. If anything all of her qualities got amplified to cartoonish degrees. Stuff like her superiority complex has gotten so extreme it's grating, and overall the character is so excessive that I can't stand her anymore.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Nice to see this get a bump, thought it had died a death!

I just finished a playthrough MCC, game thoughts here:-

Halo 2 Anniversary
Halo 3/4

Storywise this run through the 4 main games (Halo 5 replay coming next), really upset the apple cart for me in terms of what I had previously thought of the main story.

Halo 2 as much better story wise than I remember, whether this was the new lick of paint, updated cinematics (Gravemind especially benefited from this!!), or simply things I picked up and understood better this time around due to EU reading, I really enjoyed the playthrough. The fanatical Prophets were much more convincing and the pacing of the story also seemed much better as well. The dual storyline with the Arbiter and Master Chief was MUCH better done than I remember, possibly due to confusion, or me missing things that I now really know well.

The Covenant Civil War, with the Brutes and Elites was executed much better than I remember, and my dislike for Brutes as in game enemies should have no bearing on the story beats which were well done.

Halo 3 on the other hand felt quite limp and unfinished story wise, I could almost feel Bungie being tired of the universe and story, it felt rushed, unfinished the pacing really suffered.

However, one thing that playing through Halo 3 did do for me, was really tighten up the story execution in Halo 4 a LOT, with respect to Cortana's rampancy, a lot of Cortana's 'blowups' in Halo 4 have smaller germs in Halo 3, and this gave a nice sense of continuity.

When Halo 4 came out, I was quite critical of it's story execution within the gameplay, but this time around,(again maybe EU, maybe Halo 5) I felt the story execution in Halo 4 was actually maybe the best in the series with the exception of dropping the ball at the end of the game with the limp Didact QTE. The aftermath of that with Cortana is REALLY well done, and strikes I great balance (as it did throughout IMO) of genuine emotion without becoming cloying or cheesy.

Things I picked up this time in the Halo 4 story where I had issues before:-
- Why the Covenant fleet were at Requiem was clearly stated by Cortana in the 2nd mission of the game. 'Promethean Awakening'
- Why the Infinity was there was also clearly stated by Del Rio 'three guesses where it led'.
- Terminals being part of the game through Halo Channel was MUCH better (even though Halo Channel is as slow as dugshit!)
- The Librarian exposition 'infodump' was still a little bit off / too long, but it wasn't as bad as I remember it being. I thik 343 would probably agree they could have split this up a little bit and drip fed the Librarian's involvement.

My main beef with Halo 4 now, is I'm not sure what impact it's going to have on my replay through Halo 5. I had some beefs with Halo 5 story execution, even though the plot I thought was actually quite logical. The argument a lot of folks have that Cortana's story was nicely wrapped up at the end of Halo 4 is a compelling one, and knowing Halo 5's story does dilute the ending of Halo 4 somewhat.

As I noted in H2A, visuals maybe make a bigger difference for me than I thought they did on previous playthroughs, as Halo 4 looked amazing throughout, and the cutscenes were great. Laskey is a brilliantly animated character, and his introduction to the game I really enjoyed. Del Rio was no less better animated, but the effect was (probably as desired), in the opposite direction.

Someone in my H2A thread noted how much better Miranda Keyes came across in the updated cinematics as a character as a reason for the story beats being better, and I'd have to agree. Halo 3 being sandwiched in between H2A and Halo 4 was always going to suffer in the presentation department, and maybe this exacerbated it's story issues and painted over Halo2 and Halo 4's?

Anyone else had changed thoughts on the main game stories after an MCC playthrough?