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Halo Lore Thread

IIRC, Regret stumbled across a Forerunner device or inscription or something inside of the keyship that detailed the location of the portal, and he leaped at the opportunity to claim it for his own personal glory. Thus the small fleet, the attack was supposed to go unnoticed by the other Covenant, and he had no idea what he was getting himself into.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Were the impending Grunt overlords discussed?

The horizon is a roiling gyre of smoke and steam. Sizzling plasma arcs across the low clouds, illuminating a twisted nightmare of scorched wreckage strewn across the frozen ground. Seeking shelter, an Unggoy foreman flees from his post, amidst the cackling chatter of a hundred thousand Unggoy hard at work.

Yes, the factories of Balaho are active again!

Following their alliance with Cortana and the Created, the Unggoy were granted nearly limitless resources. Ships empty of life but loaded with advanced technology arrived. New agricultural support stations appeared in orbit, awaiting eager workers to feed the desperate masses below. Where chaos had once reigned, stability and a semblance of order have returned. And something more: a purpose.

With their pressing requirements – food, shelter, medicine – met, Balaho’s finest designers and crafters have worked day and night, tirelessly building their future. From their factories come clever mechanisms and curious cudgels, manufactured with knowledge the Unggoy secretly learned over centuries of oppression and cruelty. The destiny of the Unggoy is unfolding, and this time, THEY will be the elite! Well, maybe.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/canon-fodder-driving-force

Exciting prospect. The grunts were strong enough to rip a mans arm off and bred like rabbits, they reached the industrial age pre-covenant on their own, and could learn languages faster than other Covenant races.

With Cortanas help and setting their minds to technology, they could be something.



And if she uplifted the Grunt way of life in one fell swoop when the Covenant only took advantage and humans never bothered...She's kind of right about AIs being the better stewards. An entire planet unburdened by concerns of food or medicine.
 

Flipyap

Member
With Cortanas help and setting their minds to technology, they could be something.

And if she uplifted the Grunt way of life in one fell swoop when the Covenant only took advantage and humans never bothered...She's kind of right about AIs being the better stewards. An entire planet unburdened by concerns of food or medicine.
#CortanaWasRight

Under her leadership, the future of the Halo universe looks bright and smells a lot like methane.
I've already switched to a bean-rich diet to properly welcome our new Grunty overlords.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
This is the beginning of the slippery slope.

Soon enough, everyone will be rallying behind Cortana.

I have to stop this.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I really hope we get time to play around in the universe before we go off to stop Cortana's plans. There's so much rich story and environment and gameplay opportunities from a galaxy alternatively cowed by Guardians, trying to sneak around away from prying eyes, getting rearmed, developing new tech...

Since Halo 5 was at one point going to have a hub-world mission structure, maybe we'll get that in the sequel.
 
I really hope we get time to play around in the universe before we go off to stop Cortana's plans. There's so much rich story and environment and gameplay opportunities from a galaxy alternatively cowed by Guardians, trying to sneak around away from prying eyes, getting rearmed, developing new tech...

Since Halo 5 was at one point going to have a hub-world mission structure, maybe we'll get that in the sequel.

Exactly the same here. I desperately want a book or something to come out which details the Universe from the final minutes of the Halo 5 ending and onwards
 

Monocle

Member
#CortanaWasRight

Under her leadership, the future of the Halo universe looks bright and smells a lot like methane.
I've already switched to a bean-rich diet to properly welcome our new Grunty overlords.
I'm ready to embrace this bold new direction for the Halo universe. Here's to a world where no Grunt goes thirsty.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I'm ready to embrace this bold new direction for the Halo universe. Here's to a world where no Grunt goes thirsty.

I hope it's more than just a one liner for multiplayer and gets written into the larger lore.

If she did that for the grunts imagine if she also sent all the food and medicine the Jiralhanae needed and brokered a peace there, even if by force.

Or any of the other races...Without worrying about survival and turning to creating better technology, any of them could come back and become decent factions on their own, without the Covenant.
 
Were the impending Grunt overlords discussed?



https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/canon-fodder-driving-force

Exciting prospect. The grunts were strong enough to rip a mans arm off and bred like rabbits, they reached the industrial age pre-covenant on their own, and could learn languages faster than other Covenant races.

With Cortanas help and setting their minds to technology, they could be something.



And if she uplifted the Grunt way of life in one fell swoop when the Covenant only took advantage and humans never bothered...She's kind of right about AIs being the better stewards. An entire planet unburdened by concerns of food or medicine.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me super excited for the 'verse moving forward. We gonna get super-Grunts YO.

I'm hoping that we end up getting Banished and Created as enemy factions in 6. Created would be high-tech, fewer in number but with all sorts of crazy abilities. Banished would be brutal and numerous. Throw in a free-wheeling, hub-based campaign, some bigass setpieces, and you're good to go.
 

Monocle

Member
I hope it's more than just a one liner for multiplayer and gets written into the larger lore.

If she did that for the grunts imagine if she also sent all the food and medicine the Jiralhanae needed and brokered a peace there, even if by force.

Or any of the other races...Without worrying about survival and turning to creating better technology, any of them could come back and become decent factions on their own, without the Covenant.
I feel like 343 are laying the foundations for some neat twists on familiar things in Halo 6. We've got Grunts building new tech and humans integrating Forerunner tech with their own. Sounds like new enemy variations and hybrid weapons to me. Fun stuff, if some of the Warzone enemies and REQs are any indication.
 

AlStrong

Member
Or any of the other races...Without worrying about survival and turning to creating better technology, any of them could come back and become decent factions on their own, without the Covenant.

Next time when we shoot the clothes armour off of the brutes, the Forerunner armour plates can just reassemble after teleporting away.

:V
 
I feel like 343 are laying the foundations for some neat twists on familiar things in Halo 6. We've got Grunts building new tech and humans integrating Forerunner tech with their own. Sounds like new enemy variations and hybrid weapons to me. Fun stuff, if some of the Warzone enemies and REQs are any indication.

Man I hope some of the default campaign weapons get player choice or developer decisions for the REQ variants instead e.g. the default BR sights are garbage compared to the REQ variants, or double scope etc. I'd love a campaign where at certain points or REQ stations or base/ship terminals you can select loadouts. Go nuts in campaign, turn time trials/leaderboards off but make a sub category for scoring when using non default weapons, talk about replayability.

Shit give me some lore around an RPG-esque progression/skill/weapon sandbox system. I'll allow it :)

But you're right there is some really interesting ways things can move forward with many of the factions/races.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Take any "ground work" for Halo 6 with metric tonnes of salt.

Just remember the "ground work" for Halo 5 and how 90% of it was almost completely irrelevant.
 
Take any "ground work" for Halo 6 with metric tonnes of salt.

Just remember the "ground work" for Halo 5 and how 90% of it was almost completely irrelevant.

You mean like that time they stuck Cortana in slipspace and woke up the Prometheans and handed the keys to Jul M'Dama and stuck Halsey with him and how all these things actually played a fairly major role in H5's plot?

Smarm aside I'm genuinely kinda confused here. H5 builds off H4 in a number of ways, storywise.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
You mean like that time they stuck Cortana in slipspace and woke up the Prometheans and handed the keys to Jul M'Dama and stuck Halsey with him and how all these things actually played a fairly major role in H5's plot?

Smarm aside I'm genuinely kinda confused here. H5 builds off H4 in a number of ways, storywise.

  • - Spartan Ops led no where
  • - Jul was killed in the opening cutscene of the game, his story led no where
  • - Halsey's story ultimately led no where
  • - Broken Circle had zero impact on Halo 5
  • - New Blood was a slap in the face for ODST fans
  • - Hunters in the Dark was... ultimately a waste of everyone's time (look forward to maybe a throw away blink and you miss it link in Halo Wars 2 if anyone remembers!)
  • - Saint's Testimony was fucking awesome and a brilliant short story and an excellent Halo 5 tie in
  • - Shadow of Intent was great, but didn't matter at all to Halo 5
  • - You don't talk about the Kilo-5 trilogy in polite company
  • - Halo: Escalation had the audacity to bring back the Didact... and re-kill him. Yeah. Remember re-dead Didact in Halo 5? Me neither.
  • - Hunt the Truth set up an amazing story... that had nothing to do with Halo 5, season two sacrificed it's story and quality to relate and lead into Halo 5. After season one, it was a terrible misfire and almost undid all the good will season one generated.
  • - Nightfall was a waste of all the talent that contributed to it. If anything, it weakened expectations for Halo 5.
  • - The Halo 5 media campaign pretty much sold players on a complete distortion and lie about Halo 5. We didn't get the game that it advertised.
 
  • - Spartan Ops led no where Except setting up the status quo for Halo 5, which is... sorta what you'd expect from a bridging story.
  • - Jul was killed in the opening cutscene of the game, his story led no where Jul didn't die until the end of the first mission.
  • - Halsey's story ultimately led no where Halsey's story isn't done yet
  • - Broken Circle had zero impact on Halo 5 True, but was it ever advertised as being groundwork for H5?
  • - New Blood was a slap in the face for ODST fans YMMV, I'm a fan and I liked it.
  • - Hunters in the Dark was... ultimately a waste of everyone's time (look forward to maybe a throw away blink and you miss it link in Halo Wars 2 if anyone remembers!) Also never advertised as groundlaying. It did suck tho.
  • - Saint's Testimony was fucking awesome and a brilliant short story and an excellent Halo 5 tie in Truth.
  • - Shadow of Intent was great, but didn't matter at all to Halo 5 Again, not all the extended 'verse stuff is groundwork.
  • - You don't talk about the Kilo-5 trilogy in polite company Agreed, but it definitely laid a lot of groundwork for 4 and later 5. Unfortunately.
  • - Halo: Escalation had the audacity to bring back the Didact... and re-kill him. Yeah. Remember re-dead Didact in Halo 5? Me neither. Arguably sets up Cortan's return; if the Didact survived falling into Slipspace, makes sense she could, too. It was stupid, but it did lay groundwork.
  • - Hunt the Truth set up an amazing story... that had nothing to do with Halo 5, season two sacrificed it's story and quality to relate and lead into Halo 5. After season one, it was a terrible misfire and almost undid all the good will season one generated. YMMV. Loved season 2, admittedly not to the extent of season 1. Definitely had nothing to do with H5 specifically, though.
  • - Nightfall was a waste of all the talent that contributed to it. If anything, it weakened expectations for Halo 5. It did, indeed, suck. But it also established the backstory of one of the main characters, so it definitely laid groundwork.
  • - The Halo 5 media campaign pretty much sold players on a complete distortion and lie about Halo 5. We didn't get the game that it advertised. Except, we did. It definitely didn't measure up to the story promised in the ads, but it did follow the general structure promised. Chief DOES go rogue and Osiris IS dispatched to bring him in. That things go solidly sideways halfway through doesn't change that the events depicted do play out, even in an unsatisfactory manner.

Responses in bold.
 
  • - Nightfall was a waste of all the talent that contributed to it. If anything, it weakened expectations for Halo 5.

I didn't really enjoy Nightfall, drawn out and kinda crappy compared to FuD. I thought Nightfall had the bigger budget over FuD? When I watch them it appears like FuD is far better production wise.

The story element of where Locke came from was half interesting but I would have preferred him kicking some ass rather than being all fair and even steven softy.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Except setting up the status quo for Halo 5, which is... sorta what you'd expect from a bridging story.
What status quo? None of the primary actors in Spartan Ops are primary actors in Halo 5.

Jul didn't die until the end of the first mission.
That... doesn't change my point in any way. The dude was irrelevant.

Halsey's story isn't done yet
So? Halsey had a very specific story set up between Halo 4 and Halo 5's release. It had zero impact on Halo 5. At all.

True, but was it ever advertised as being groundwork for H5?
It was released as content filler between games, as part of a heavy media burst leading up to Halo 5's release. It was never meant as a direct tie in, true. It's literally just filler.

YMMV, I'm a fan and I liked it.
Glad you did. Wish I did.

Also never advertised as groundlaying. It did suck tho.
I dunno man, going back to the Ark post Halo 3 had me hyped as all hell. The disappointment from this book was tangible.

Again, not all the extended 'verse stuff is groundwork.
World building, flesh outs, filler. It keeps the ball rolling.

Agreed, but it definitely laid a lot of groundwork for 4 and later 5. Unfortunately.
Honestly? I feel I could expose the major items from each book and clearly detail how they went nowhere and ultimately meant nothing. This is the series that start the Halsey bashing. The series that set up Jul. That reduced the Onyx story to... a forgotten macguffin. That showed so much interesting non-UNSC stuff then... forgot about it all.

Sorry, the K5 wounds still haven't healed.

Arguably sets up Cortan's return; if the Didact survived falling into Slipspace, makes sense she could, too. It was stupid, but it did lay groundwork.

So we need a dozen super Composers to re-kill Cortana? :p
The less said about Halsey, the Librarian and jAnus key, the better.

YMMV. Loved season 2, admittedly not to the extent of season 1. Definitely had nothing to do with H5 specifically, though.
After season one, instead of throwing money at the writing team, they threw money at the casting director and ballooned it with more celebrities than a C-List Hollywood after party
#HuntTheActualPointoftheStory

Benjamin Giraud's fate is a pretty good analogy for the story itself.

It did, indeed, suck. But it also established the backstory of one of the main characters, so it definitely laid groundwork.
I actually clapped when Cortana in Halo 5 named dropped the stupid new Covenant species that they shoehorned into Nightfall.

Except, we did. It definitely didn't measure up to the story promised in the ads, but it did follow the general structure promised. Chief DOES go rogue and Osiris IS dispatched to bring him in. That things go solidly sideways halfway through doesn't change that the events depicted do play out, even in an unsatisfactory manner.
Nah, I'm not going to bend on this point. The tone, the ideas presented. Implied. There was no great hunt. No great rivalry. No great meeting. No real meaningful conflict. There was a justified push back from players post released about feeling lied to. They were justified. The Chief going "rogue"? You actually remember how that played out in the game? Disappointing is a severe understatement here.

The ad campaign was as disappointing as the mo-capped showdown cutscene in the game itself.
 
I feel like we're kinda talking past each other here; I agree that it's clear that post Halo 4 343 went back and decided to dramatically retool some story plans. H5 has 0 to do with the implied return of the Forerunners, and a lot of the H4 characters and plotpoints like Jul M'Dama or Thorne or the Janus Key are dealt with very quickly or relegated to tie-in material. It doesn't help that the tie-ins are... kind of a mixed bag, qualitywise. Like, I don't think anybody would've objected to Hunters in the Dark being totally unconnected to H5 if it was actually good. This applies to a lot of this stuff. If Escalation was worth reading on its own merits, it wouldn't matter that it presented a bit of a mess in terms of the overall plot. That's, I think, the distinction I was trying to make up there.

But, at the same time, most/all of the groundwork laid in H4 and the bridging works does turn up in H5, or at least is referenced in such a fashion as to pass the ball along to a future entry. Like, you say that Halsey's specific story doesn't come up in H5, but her being with M'dama and having the opportunity to a) study the Forerunner sites he visited and b) being close enough to betray him do shape the plot of 5. The payoff being dramatically different (and sometimes worse) than expected (no hunt for the Janus Key, M'dama shuffled off immediately in a cutscene) doesn't change that it was there.

Plus, there's not really any story room that I can see for a similar course correction before H6, unless they literally decide to settle the entire issue with the Created in EU material, which admittedly isn't impossible but I can't say is particularly likely.
 
Halo Mythos is pretty awesome. Raced through it tonight.

I think there is some new Forerunner info, some clarifications, etc.. It is mostly a nicely printed Wiki recap of everything Halo thus far with some great artwork.

There were some omissions,
don't recall much Broken Circle talk, or Hunt the Truth :(, none of the anthology stuff either I don't think
, most of it was focused on the games, but they did include a decent amount of the side stuff.

The presentation is really nice, and I have no regrets. If someone is confused about Halo, giving them this book to borrow should help.

Reading it with the glorious Halo 5 soundtrack on in the background is even better.

Looking forward to the next books in a month or so...
 
Halo Mythos is pretty awesome. Raced through it tonight.

I think there is some new Forerunner info, some clarifications, etc.. It is mostly a nicely printed Wiki recap of everything Halo thus far with some great artwork.

There were some omissions,
don't recall much Broken Circle talk, or Hunt the Truth :(, none of the anthology stuff either I don't think
, most of it was focused on the games, but they did include a decent amount of the side stuff.

The presentation is really nice, and I have no regrets. If someone is confused about Halo, giving them this book to borrow should help.

Reading it with the glorious Halo 5 soundtrack on in the background is even better.

Looking forward to the next books in a month or so...

Any good info on post-Halo 5 goings on? I can't imagine any major spoilers, but hopefully at least a tease.
 
Halo Mythos is pretty awesome. Raced through it tonight.

I think there is some new Forerunner info, some clarifications, etc.. It is mostly a nicely printed Wiki recap of everything Halo thus far with some great artwork.

There were some omissions,
don't recall much Broken Circle talk, or Hunt the Truth :(, none of the anthology stuff either I don't think
, most of it was focused on the games, but they did include a decent amount of the side stuff.

The presentation is really nice, and I have no regrets. If someone is confused about Halo, giving them this book to borrow should help.

Reading it with the glorious Halo 5 soundtrack on in the background is even better.

Looking forward to the next books in a month or so...

No mentions of Hunt the Truth I don't think. They do give Hunters in the Dark a much larger mention than Broken Circle, but I have a feeling Broken Circle is still a much deeper layer for forward lore to call back on.

Any good info on post-Halo 5 goings on? I can't imagine any major spoilers, but hopefully at least a tease.

There's definitely some teases sprinkled throughout, with a fairly major one at the very end.

All in all Mythos is quite excellent. It's mostly the broader strokes, but it does cover the Halo Canon from end to end. If one wants to dig deeper, there's obviously all of the individual novels and other pieces of literature that one can get, but if someone read through it who had little to no idea what the story of Halo was about up unto the present, this would definitely paint a pretty good picture.

Not to mention, the artwork is superb. There's some glimpses of characters we've only read about in the books, which I greatly appreciated.

IIRC, Regret stumbled across a Forerunner device or inscription or something inside of the keyship that detailed the location of the portal, and he leaped at the opportunity to claim it for his own personal glory. Thus the small fleet, the attack was supposed to go unnoticed by the other Covenant, and he had no idea what he was getting himself into.
Pretty much. He jumped the gun and also had no idea Earth was the home world of humanity.

Wasn't it Mendicant Bias that gave him the necessary information to push him to act?
 
Just about a week until Halo: Fractures drops. Stoked.

cfhalo_fractures_cvr_plusmech-993e23221ae54d75986af034068a5762.jpg


Launch once more into galaxy-spanning conflict and legendary heroism…shards of an ever-expanding journey where human and alien alike find their finest hours in facing their greatest challenges. These scattered stories span untold millennia, from the age of the ancient custodial race known as the Forerunners…to the aftermath of the Covenant’s bloody war against humanity…and even the shocking events surrounding the resurrection of the mysterious Guardians. Halo: Fractures explores mythic tales of bravery and sacrifice that blaze brightly at the very heart of the Halo universe.

Story titles (spoiler tagged in case you don't want to know):

Lessons Learned - Matt Forbeck [connected to upcoming Halo: Legacy of Onyx (Amazon listed)]

What Remains - Morgan Lockhart

Breaking Strain - James Swallow

Promises to Keep - Christie Golden

Shadow of Intent - Joseph Staten [previously Kindle only]

The Ballad of Hamish Beamish - Frank O'Connor

Defender of the Storm - John Jackson Miller

A Necessary Truth - Troy Denning

Into the Fire - Kelly Gay

Saint's Testimony - Frank O'Connor [previously Kindle only]

Rossbach's World - Brian Reed

Oasis - Tobias Buckell

Anarosa - Kevin Grace

Seems like a pretty meaty selection of stories.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Going through Mythos right and now and enjoying it. Te artwork is pretty amazing. Next I would love to see another encyclopedia and tech manual ala Star Trek.

Looking forward to Fractures. Think I'm going to get the audiobook.
 

Ade

Member
Re: Fractures. If I get the kindle edition I assume Im paying to rebuy the two kindle only stories that are in it?
 

Ade

Member
Almost done with fractures

Fantastic so far, really enjoying it.

Looking forward to some discussion once more of us have read it.
 

Ade

Member
Damn, that's fast. Plan on picking up the audiobook soon.

Slow day, lots of travel. Already read Shadow of Intent and Saints Testimony so was purely feasting on the new morsels.


There hasn't been a bad/dull story yet, and the post H5 world building is great. Rossbachs World is a highlight, as was Into the Fire.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Slow day, lots of travel. Already read Shadow of Intent and Saints Testimony so was purely feasting on the new morsels.


There hasn't been a bad/dull story yet, and the post H5 world building is great. Rossbachs World is a highlight, as was Into the Fire.

Awesome. Looking forward to the post H5 stuff.
 
Ahh Fractures is out?! Amazon must be shipping it to me today.. completely forgot about that. Will dig in to it tonight!

Nice to finally get some Halo books again.. we were SPOILED last year, and it made the first 2/3rd of this year feel downright barren by comparison.
 

SilverArrow20XX

Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Didn't realize Fractures was out. Been waiting for this instead of buying Shadow of Intent. Can't remember if I preordered it or not on Amazon.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Posted my first-readthrough thoughts on HBO.

Overall I think "Defenders of the Storm" and "Rossbach's World" are my standouts. A lot of the front half of the stories feel like they just aren't long enough to be truly successful, but I admire the thematic unity of Fractures. It makes me just really hope we get that openish world Halo campaign we've seen glimpses of.
 
Hope to pick up Fractures this weekend.

Re-read Last Light a week ago, it's so good, love it.

Would really love to see 343 and Microsoft look at the story and content of Last Light as a possible template on how better to expand the Halo game universe without having to push everything experimental through the main Halo AAA route:-

+ Noir feel, slower pace. Echoes of the Halo 3 ODST vibe, some of the RPG-lite type things that were introduced into Halo 5 and felt out of place (listening to conversations to get where to go) would be much more at home in something like a game based on Last Light
+ Introduce great new characters (Veta rocks!) without having to compromise Master Cheif (Locke/Osiris).
+ Does not even have to be an FPS.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Hope to pick up Fractures this weekend.

Re-read Last Light a week ago, it's so good, love it.

Would really love to see 343 and Microsoft look at the story and content of Last Light as a possible template on how better to expand the Halo game universe without having to push everything experimental through the main Halo AAA route:-

+ Noir feel, slower pace. Echoes of the Halo 3 ODST vibe, some of the RPG-lite type things that were introduced into Halo 5 and felt out of place (listening to conversations to get where to go) would be much more at home in something like a game based on Last Light
+ Introduce great new characters (Veta rocks!) without having to compromise Master Cheif (Locke/Osiris).
+ Does not even have to be an FPS.

Honestly they didn't feel out of place to me at all. I wanted more of it, I just wish the non-combat sections hadn't been so segregated from the rest of the mission flow.
 
Honestly they didn't feel out of place to me at all. I wanted more of it, I just wish the non-combat sections hadn't been so segregated from the rest of the mission flow.

I think that's more what I meant, they just stuck out as being incongruous and wasn't designed into the overall game partciularly well i thought.
 
I think they'd work better as part of a consistent hub rather than these one-off areas you just sorta wander through. Judging by the hints in the H5 artbook, we'll probably get that in 6 in the form of the Infinity.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I wonder if they'll go back to the Halo 5 storyline plan or not. It could certainly work as far as we know with the direction it's headed in (take "away missions" to round up UNSC survivors, fight the Created off planets, etc.) but for all we know other considerations besides time factored in to the change in direction.
 

golem

Member
I wonder if they'll go back to the Halo 5 storyline plan or not. It could certainly work as far as we know with the direction it's headed in (take "away missions" to round up UNSC survivors, fight the Created off planets, etc.) but for all we know other considerations besides time factored in to the change in direction.

To fight a coalition of AIs with superweapons, you'll probably need some kind of AI and superweapon of your own. Don't see Master Chief rescuing too many civvies when he has to figure out how to presumably get the (Fractures spoiler)
precursor AI and their tech
on his side.

Instead I'm hoping to see an online component like Destiny where you can create your own Spartan IV and go on missions from the Infinity on strikes/raids (pls 343). Or I could see them just wrapping it all up in the comics and dropping the whole plot unceremoniously for the next epic omg idea :p
 
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