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Halo |OT 20| It really does feel like Halo
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
VivaciousJazzy
Member
That kind of downtime is pretty normal. I felt like they were doing better than most tournaments.
Every Halo was supposed to right the ship. Every Halo fails to do that in someone's eye. I'll quote myself on this one.
Loving the community leaderboards idea... but it won't be the same without sword flying in the Campaign. Since apparently the Campaign and MP use two different sets of assets... I don't see why this can't be patched in at a later date.
And frankly I have yet to find a single person who dislikes the ability to swordfly in the Campaign. Obviously this is an anecdote, but it is worth 20-25 minutes saved time in Halo 2 speedrunning.
And frankly I have yet to find a single person who dislikes the ability to swordfly in the Campaign. Obviously this is an anecdote, but it is worth 20-25 minutes saved time in Halo 2 speedrunning.
Top 8 in MLG never took this long. At least not consistently throughout the day, an entire game could have been played in between games for practically every series today.
Subtract half that time and guess what, we get to watch StK vs Optic.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Yeah the Sword flying has been a staple... However even super bounces were used in some runs.
I think speed runs should use the MCC for the communities sake.
GringoSuave89
Banned
It seems weird they wouldn't broadcast the rest of the matches, but whatever. I guess we'll have a definite answer tomorrow morning.
MLG would have broadcasted the games even without commentators until 3 in the morning if necessary.
#JustSayin
GringoSuave89
Banned
Dunno enough about MLG or ESL to comment one way or the other. Still new to all this.
The only comparison I can think of is not streaming OT of a playoff game, these were the 2 most hyped teams going into the event and they played. To make matters worst 343/ESL didn't even cover the damn thing and we found out from players sticking around to watch it.
No one in their right mind would have not streamed this, Lenox (stream director) must have been told no or something from above. He knows his shit. With that too, the potential to bring in new OpTic fans to competitive Halo just got flushed down the drain.
No one in their right mind would have not streamed this, Lenox (stream director) must have been told no or something from above. He knows his shit. With that too, the potential to bring in new OpTic fans to competitive Halo just got flushed down the drain.
343 led Halo eSports doesn't seem as dedicated to me as MLG did, straight up. I really don't care about the reasons, if they played meaningful matches, you stream it, full stop.
The only question left is will Halo 5 be the glorious return to the throne?
#Wearealreadydad
Ok, late night strong opinion time. I want to talk about drastically different opinions of Halo and what I thought of the MCC tournament. There will be no TLDR section. Either read it or don't I don't care.
The tournament sucked and here's why...
It was boring to watch. The same thing we saw years ago in MLG doesn't work with me anymore. I want more from my Halo than 4v4 on small maps with limited weapon sets. Let's dig into another style of competitive Halo.
Big Team Battle is fun! It's chaotic and epic. It allows for more variety in plays and may just lead to a more enjoyable match to watch. I get it, spawn trapping, power-up timing is competitive and can show how a skilled team wins a game, but is it fun to watch? To be honest I found it a little to chaotic and not interesting.
"But Cliq you said Big Team was Chaotic. You Hippocratic noob!"
True, I did say chaotic, but there are two different chaotics going on. In the tournament kill times were so fast and plays happened at such a rapid pace that most times I lost track of what was going on and stopped caring about who was winning. I felt everyone was doing so well that real strategy was not coming through the game. Here's what I mean...
On Warlock two teams played CTF. The main goal for both teams were to grab the flag, take it to the portal, and shoot up the lift and score before the defending team could catch up. While this does require skill it doesn't translate well in a live stream and comes across as boring (to me atleast).
Now lets look at other games like Counter Strike, League of Legends, Hearthstone, and Strcraft. Four games that constantly top the charts for views. Why are they so popular? They are easy to follow and you can see strategy clearly when watching. Counter Strike most of the time is a pretty slow game where matches could last an hour, same goes for league. Hearthstone is turn based and shows you what the player is thinking. Starcraft can be very fast paced but strategy can be observed from people like me who have never played a single game.
My point is I think Halo does a poor job of showing the skill and strategy involved when playing a game. Maybe it's time we rock the boat on competitive play.
If you've read any of my posts recently you will know that I like 8v8. I think it breads some of the most interesting conflicts Halo has to offer. That's why I propose that the community consider changing their minds on competitive Halo in favor of large scale big team style matches.
Midship is a map. Blood Gulch is a battlefield. What i'm about to say will probably get criticized to all hell but it's what I believe. Long range combat and vehicle battles are more enjoyable to watch than close range BR fights and Power-up timing. More improvised events can happen when you expand the sandbox. Sure bad and unbalanced things could happen too, but I believe a slower, larger, and a vehicle oriented competitive Halo would get more support. Not to mention that besides team Slayer, Big Team Battle is the most popular playlist in any Halo.
Please express your thoughts on this, I want to hear why you think this is good or bad. Why is 4v4 the standard? Don't say it's because getting a team of eight is hard to do because I don't buy that for a second.
Thanks for reading!
The tournament sucked and here's why...
It was boring to watch. The same thing we saw years ago in MLG doesn't work with me anymore. I want more from my Halo than 4v4 on small maps with limited weapon sets. Let's dig into another style of competitive Halo.
Big Team Battle is fun! It's chaotic and epic. It allows for more variety in plays and may just lead to a more enjoyable match to watch. I get it, spawn trapping, power-up timing is competitive and can show how a skilled team wins a game, but is it fun to watch? To be honest I found it a little to chaotic and not interesting.
"But Cliq you said Big Team was Chaotic. You Hippocratic noob!"
True, I did say chaotic, but there are two different chaotics going on. In the tournament kill times were so fast and plays happened at such a rapid pace that most times I lost track of what was going on and stopped caring about who was winning. I felt everyone was doing so well that real strategy was not coming through the game. Here's what I mean...
On Warlock two teams played CTF. The main goal for both teams were to grab the flag, take it to the portal, and shoot up the lift and score before the defending team could catch up. While this does require skill it doesn't translate well in a live stream and comes across as boring (to me atleast).
Now lets look at other games like Counter Strike, League of Legends, Hearthstone, and Strcraft. Four games that constantly top the charts for views. Why are they so popular? They are easy to follow and you can see strategy clearly when watching. Counter Strike most of the time is a pretty slow game where matches could last an hour, same goes for league. Hearthstone is turn based and shows you what the player is thinking. Starcraft can be very fast paced but strategy can be observed from people like me who have never played a single game.
My point is I think Halo does a poor job of showing the skill and strategy involved when playing a game. Maybe it's time we rock the boat on competitive play.
If you've read any of my posts recently you will know that I like 8v8. I think it breads some of the most interesting conflicts Halo has to offer. That's why I propose that the community consider changing their minds on competitive Halo in favor of large scale big team style matches.
Midship is a map. Blood Gulch is a battlefield. What i'm about to say will probably get criticized to all hell but it's what I believe. Long range combat and vehicle battles are more enjoyable to watch than close range BR fights and Power-up timing. More improvised events can happen when you expand the sandbox. Sure bad and unbalanced things could happen too, but I believe a slower, larger, and a vehicle oriented competitive Halo would get more support. Not to mention that besides team Slayer, Big Team Battle is the most popular playlist in any Halo.
Please express your thoughts on this, I want to hear why you think this is good or bad. Why is 4v4 the standard? Don't say it's because getting a team of eight is hard to do because I don't buy that for a second.
Thanks for reading!
GringoSuave89
Banned
Boom. There it is.
I don't agree with your stance on Big Team Halo being the ultimate for competitive Halo, but I see where you are coming from.
H2A is too easy and boring, it's better than Halo Reach, H4, and will be better than Halo 3 when it gets some maps. But, the core gameplay and playmaking abilities of individual players is too low for it to be truly amazing as a spectator sport. Halo 2 Classic and Halo CE are far better in this case.
In my opinion, 6v6 Objective based, Counter-Strike Style Shadowrun would be the absolute best Console Shooter eSport. Tons of strategy, improvisation, fun for spectators, longer kill times and engagements, and a nearly infinite metagame.
BTB Halo has some potential, but organizing it on LAN, along with making it better than a game like Battlefield seems improbable. Halo is a medium paced Quake game for Consoles, it should strive to perfect that niche.
I disagree in pretty much every possible way. The tournament was really good for a pretty small one, and it's exactly the type of Halo I like to watch. There's a shitload of critical thinking, intricate planning, and weapon skill involved. It was actually pretty far from chaotic. It was methodical and even hesitant at times unless the objectives or timers pushed the pace. The problem with communicating what's going on isn't with the game, but the presentation. Bravo did a great job but Goldenboy isn't familiar enough with old Halo to explain to the viewers what's going on in the players' heads in the same way someone who has played it can. There was a lot of disorganized viewpoint switching, and we didn't get to hear the players talk. Also, fewer games on Warlord please.
The game definitely doesn't need to change, and I hope that the presentation improves with time. That Halo Channel Twitch stream UI looks like it'll help.
The game definitely doesn't need to change, and I hope that the presentation improves with time. That Halo Channel Twitch stream UI looks like it'll help.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Failed... trying again.
http://free.timeanddate.com/countdo...n/tpc000/mac000/mpc000/iso2014-11-11T00:01:00
Ok I have no idea how to imbed this thing.
http://free.timeanddate.com/countdo...n/tpc000/mac000/mpc000/iso2014-11-11T00:01:00
Ok I have no idea how to imbed this thing.
This is exactly what i'm talking about. I don't play League of Legends or Starcraft but I do watch the tournaments and it's because they are easy to follow. If you don't know what's going on than why watch it? I'm not saying you can't follow a 4v4 match but I am saying that if you slowed the game down a little bit and broadened the sandbox I think you would have a more interesting Halo to watch.
It's time we stepped into bigger Halo than Midship, Warlock, Lockout.
Game comes out in 27 hours here... right on top of my exams. 
I guess I have to wait two weeks...
Edit: I'll also agree with the "change" mentality for MLG streams. Watching the same thing again and again gets boring after a while. This tournament had some very close matches, yet it feels like I've seen it all before.
A 6v6, limited respawn gametype might be the change needed. Obviously, it doesn't replace vanilla MLG, but it may be more interesting than playing Crazy King on Warlock every 2nd game.
I guess I have to wait two weeks...Edit: I'll also agree with the "change" mentality for MLG streams. Watching the same thing again and again gets boring after a while. This tournament had some very close matches, yet it feels like I've seen it all before.
A 6v6, limited respawn gametype might be the change needed. Obviously, it doesn't replace vanilla MLG, but it may be more interesting than playing Crazy King on Warlock every 2nd game.
There are a lot of factors that went into the production of this show. It's unfortunately not as simple as just flipping a switch and streaming the match. We would love to show every match, we understand how important all loser's bracket matches are and not just ones with premier players. For this event, there were factors that just did not allow it.
I can totally be down for something like this. I am just trying to get people to look a little outside the box. It doesn't have to be 8v8 but it should be something different. It's just to bland right now for how much Halo offers in matchmaking.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I would've liked to see that match, but hopefully it was at least recorded.
Could the staff at least made an effort to tweet it or something? Like finding out from Maven and Lxthul, we honestly thought they were trolling at first.
Sure it's not easy and maybe the teams won't all be pros from the get go but I think that would make it even more exciting to watch. Having a team of eight people not all pros could really make for some exciting plays. Imagine a flag run across the plains of Blood Gulch and training the flag into the base for that ultimate score.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Fair enough. I appreciate the response.
You couldn't even stream one player PoV for these matches? Literally just one player with no commentary? It's better than nothing, I spent years watching grainy, low quality loser bracket matches late into the night at old Halo tournaments, what were the factors that prevented 343 from showing anything?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The BR being the only utility/midrange weapon is a problem. It's just not an interesting weapon and it's the most used.
Then all the maps look brown and still not enough Power-up usage. You should always be fighting over Power-ups, not once in a while when it gets wasted a lot of the time. Halo is most interesting when you can be creative in a fun, diverse sandbox. Shootouts with the BR play out the same way, but there's exponentially more excitement if one player can pull off incredible plays where the audience knows there's a certain level of skill that takes determination to achieve.
What were some of the most exciting moments throughout that tournament? The Triple Kill by Flamesword? The come back where StK was trapped on the bottom of Lockdown because their utility weapon takes too long to kill against a team that has positions locked down? Perhaps for some it was the long, dragged out TS match? It really is funny how similar the Halo franchise is with Smash:
- 64 = Halo CE --- Great combination of simplicity, accessibility and depth for competitive play.
- Melee = Halo 2 --- They were both saved by button combos, glitches, advanced tech, etc.
- Brawl = Halo 3&4 --- Convoluted with nerfed gameplay.
Smash 4 = H2A --- Alright, but has more potential that's not being realized.
EDIT:
It was actually what sparked me to make this post, but quoted Booshka because your post was gigantic lol
FUNKNOWN didn't chime in about my gigantic post. I guess he doesn't see the merit in what I said. Sadface
FUNKNOWN did respond.I just gave him no time to..
GringoSuave89
Banned
FUNKNOWN didn't chime in about my gigantic post. I guess he doesn't see the merit in what I said. Sadface
FUNKNOWN did respond.I just gave him no time to..
Were I not lazy/tired I'd retort. Maybe in the morning. There's plenty I want to respond to.
I want to change things. I do want to read what you have to say and I think having conversations like this are important to keeping Halo exciting.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Someone tell me if this is working. My work firewall won't show the imbedded clock.
or this
or this
Someone tell me if this is working. My work firewall won't show the imbedded clock.
or this
Blank squares on mobile.
There's definitely a better way it could have been messaged and handled. I don't necessarily think Tweeting it out would have been best.
I can't go into exact details but there were time constraints we were working with.
You inspired me to drag out my Xbox and play some Halo CE on Legendary. Still the best SP Shooter ever.
I'm glad it inspired you. I'll try and stream some more tomorrow (Sunday). We'll see what I feel like playing.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Damn. I'm terrible at imbedding things in the forums.
I still don't get it, how did these time constraints result in the matches and tournament format being important enough to play, but them not being important enough to broadcast, at even the bare minimum of effort. I'm talking Twitch app 30 FPS, grainy, trash tier quality, I'd still be there watching if the big names are competing for 50K in Loser's Bracket.
The exact details, and transparency is what Competitive Gaming Leagues live and die by, by the way. I doubt there is some production details that 343/ESL could explain that wouldn't be understood by the community. Otherwise it just sounds like excuses and lack of preparation to me.
Der Flatulator
Member
It doesn't necessarily have to be BTB but I am suggesting changing the competitive format in a rather drastic way.
http://www.twitch.tv/halo/b/586723166
Here is their entire Past Broadcast VoD. 7 Hours of Competitive Halo matches and commentary. 3 and a half hours of nothingness.
Oh wow thanks, booshka.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=928315
The connections of non-NA players should be something that is fixed... if 343i is reading this it is definitely something to look into in the long term. I don't expect miracles in the next few months after looking at your backlog of upcoming updates, but if this was fixed by the time the beta or even Halo 5 Guardians comes it, it would be fantastic.
Allowing us to selectively play by region benefits all MP players. I would happily wait 2 extra minutes for a match with a better connection. A Battlefield style server browser would be even better.
Halo games have generally added major features to the franchise. A server browser/custom game browser is the next step, in my humble opinion. It would be a universally appreciated feature, unless you guys have something even better that can be added in terms of content or functionality.
Edit: Battlefield has dedicated servers, but I wouldn't even dare try to play in Euro or Asian servers, which have horrible connections. Australia or US West are my preferred regions. My point is that dedicated servers will not solve this problem.
The connections of non-NA players should be something that is fixed... if 343i is reading this it is definitely something to look into in the long term. I don't expect miracles in the next few months after looking at your backlog of upcoming updates, but if this was fixed by the time the beta or even Halo 5 Guardians comes it, it would be fantastic.
Allowing us to selectively play by region benefits all MP players. I would happily wait 2 extra minutes for a match with a better connection. A Battlefield style server browser would be even better.
Halo games have generally added major features to the franchise. A server browser/custom game browser is the next step, in my humble opinion. It would be a universally appreciated feature, unless you guys have something even better that can be added in terms of content or functionality.
Edit: Battlefield has dedicated servers, but I wouldn't even dare try to play in Euro or Asian servers, which have horrible connections. Australia or US West are my preferred regions. My point is that dedicated servers will not solve this problem.
Halo matchmaking. Middle finger for non NA players?
Opinions, guys?
Really, I ain't bothered as I always have lag in games and have dealt with it in the past.
EDIT: Psh, Random 17 stole my news! I knew I shouldn't have caught up on HaloGAF before posting! But he makes a good point saying Halo needs a server browser. Too long has man been Matchmade with poor connection!
Opinions, guys?
Really, I ain't bothered as I always have lag in games and have dealt with it in the past.
EDIT: Psh, Random 17 stole my news! I knew I shouldn't have caught up on HaloGAF before posting! But he makes a good point saying Halo needs a server browser. Too long has man been Matchmade with poor connection!
lifeexpectancy
Member
Bleh that defeats the purpose then. Can't have an animated timer counting down the seconds.