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[Der Flatulator]

I'm well aware. He also made Guardian in Halo 3, but somehow in Reach he drops The Cage and Paradiso on us. Baffling.

It's his first forge map(s), everyone's first forge map is horrible.

 

[Ramirez]

NubInATub, you ever get a partner for the league?

 

[NullPointer]

Halo needs to expand it's audience by offering a robust and streamlined experience instead of offering a strange dilution of the Halo and COD formula.

Pretty sure 343 doesn't even see it as the COD formula anymore. Its the contemporary shooter formula now.

So they aren't ripping another game off, they're adapting. They aren't breaking the Halo formula, they are trying to bring it up to date.

Not justifying it (although I do prefer JIP and some AAs), but this seems to fit with how they've spoken about the game in interviews. Its a mindset switch.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

It's his first forge map(s), everyone's first forge map is horrible.

We have one way to test this:

Fyrewulff, I have a question about Cragmire.

 

[Karl2177]

Keep it classic. Add rockets and sniper to the ordnance drops.

If Haven was a bit bigger, sure. I might work on an Adrift one tomorrow. If I do Adrift, it'll have Rockets and Sniper. That one will probably have no CQB weapons since it's a hallway map. I might drop a couple of Boltshots though to act like Maulers... Still mulling over how to work that one.

 

[BuggyDClown]

Pretty sure 343 doesn't even see it as the COD formula anymore. Its the contemporary shooter formula now.

So they aren't ripping another game off, they're adapting. They aren't breaking the Halo formula, they are trying to bring it up to date.

Not justifying it (although I do prefer JIP and some AAs), but this seems to fit with how they've spoken about the game in interviews. Its a mindset switch.

This. This. This.

 

[DeadNames]

Pretty sure 343 doesn't even see it as the COD formula anymore. Its the contemporary shooter formula now.

So they aren't ripping another game off, they're adapting. They aren't breaking the Halo formula, they are trying to bring it up to date.

Not justifying it (although I do prefer JIP and some AAs), but this seems to fit with how they've spoken about the game in interviews. Its a mindset switch.

This.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

The BTB maps are leagues better than Reach's offerings, but the only small map I can truly say I enjoy playing on is Haven. Abandon is okay. In Reach I liked Countdown, Powerhouse, Zealot, and Asylum. I'd say most of the small maps in Halo 4 are on the level of Boardwalk -- I can enjoy them, but I find them mediocre.

Eh, I like the maps. Most aren't Halo 2 or Halo 3 good, but they aren't Boardwalk bad either IMO. They do however seem to share some design philosophies with Reach.

Yeah I realize that the maps were probably finished before the game even shipped (DLC you're just the gift that keeps on giving), but as you said they should have at SOME POINT been like "oh fuck me, there are pretty much zero small maps, maybe we should do something about that".

Also the concept art vs reality on these maps is horrible. The concept art at least had some color in it and the maps looks pleasing visually, these just looks washed out and grey.

I just do not get it.

Agreed 100%.

With how much I don't like Halo 4, I keep fantasizing that 343 will hear our cries, and release a "Halo Classic" game on XBLA, which would exist alongside but separate from Halo 4. Based off of Halo 2, with less aim assist and stuff. FFA, Team Slayer, BTB (including objective), CTF, KOTH, and Assault. Midship, Battle Creek, The Pit, Lockout, Haven (made a little smaller), Wizard, Countdown (I like Countdown, shut up), Valhalla, and a few more large maps and asymmetrical maps. And the return of a decent active roster.

I would cry tears of joy. Joy tears, everywhere. Never gonna happen, though.

Maybe Halo 2 HD? Still, it would be nice if we just got more arena maps in Halo 4 and had a true classic playlist.

 

[YourExWife]

Why hello there folks! Humble THQ Bundle is pretty sweet. I have a proposal. Quote for a code that will give you Darksiders, Red Faction: Armageddon, Metro 2033, Company of Heroes, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor. Post and let people know that you got it (reminder: these are Windows-only, Steam-only). Then... buy a bundle anyway, and Pay It Forward!

If you're not the lucky person to get the code, buy the bundle anyway (currently ~$6 will get you all of those games plus Saints Row The Third. Also you get 5 soundtracks with purchase). Decide how much goes to charity, developers, and organizers. This is such a sick deal. Everyone do it.

Did I mention quote for the code?

Good luck!

 

[Reagan's BR]

Pretty sure 343 doesn't even see it as the COD formula anymore. Its the contemporary shooter formula now.

What happened to innovation and diversity in the market?

 

[DeadNames]

What happened to innovation and diversity in the market?

Too risky. Why take chances wren you know you can get a good deal of money with a generic military FPS?

 

[Mayyhem]

Dont buy the maps, don't turn the game on, speak with actions.

Let the #'s dwindle. Lets get our Halo back.

-No instant respawn
-No loadouts
-No perks
-Weapons on the map
-No random ordnances
-No default sprint
-Small Arena maps
-Ranking System
-New Playlist Management
-60fps
-Dedis!

Whos with me?

Halo 5. Do IT.

Minus a few points, that looks strikingly similar to posts a lot of us made when Reach was out. Posts that ended with "Halo 4. Do IT"

Just don't see it happening

 

[willow ve]

Complex is the fucking worst map ever for KotH.

Hills G and E trololololololololo

Why is it even still in the playlist?

It's terrible for pretty much anything other than that Sparty Ops episode. 2 Flag on that map is a joke. One flag is out in the open with sight lines from all directions... the other flag is ten feet from a lift, hallways, and multiple corners with cover.

 

[Steelyuhas]

It's his first forge map(s), but that doesn't matter, cause all forge maps are horrible.

Sorry, you had some typos there that I just had to correct.

 

[Pop]

Pretty sure 343 doesn't even see it as the COD formula anymore. Its the contemporary shooter formula now.

So they aren't ripping another game off, they're adapting. They aren't breaking the Halo formula, they are trying to bring it up to date.

Not justifying it (although I do prefer JIP and some AAs), but this seems to fit with how they've spoken about the game in interviews. Its a mindset switch.

I can agree with this.

However, I believe they only have so long until H4 will completely bomb. That will come around about in January with the skill ranks and Title Update. If they fail with those then H4 will be dead completely. At least to me anyway.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Pretty sure 343 doesn't even see it as the COD formula anymore. Its the contemporary shooter formula now.

So they aren't ripping another game off, they're adapting. They aren't breaking the Halo formula, they are trying to bring it up to date.

Not justifying it (although I do prefer JIP and some AAs), but this seems to fit with how they've spoken about the game in interviews. Its a mindset switch.

Be that as it may, Halo's combat design is also unique among modern shooters. And so the many ways in which it both has and has not been updated in Halo 4 has created some tension and contradictions in the game design, IMO. For example, instant respawn doesn't work with Halo because Halo was built around the idea of a required downtime between encounters for players to recharge their shields. Letting a defeated player hop back into the game and kill someone who just defeated them, before that player has recharged their shields, breaks the combat design. One element is "brought up to date", but it runs smack into the reason Halo worked in the first place.

That's just one example. And in some ways the easiest example. But I think there are a fair number of similar uncomfortable updates, where modernizing Halo is also breaking it, with Halo 4. I think 343 needs to either pull back from the direction they've gone, or go down the path more fully, in order to make it really work.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Why hello there folks! Humble THQ Bundle is pretty sweet. I have a proposal. Quote for a code that will give you Darksiders, Red Faction: Armageddon, Metro 2033, Company of Heroes, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor. Post and let people know that you got it (reminder: these are Windows-only, Steam-only). Then... buy a bundle anyway, and Pay It Forward!

If you're not the lucky person to get the code, buy the bundle anyway (currently ~$6 will get you all of those games plus Saints Row The Third. Also you get 5 soundtracks with purchase). Decide how much goes to charity, developers, and organizers. This is such a sick deal. Everyone do it.

Did I mention quote for the code?

Good luck!

Someone snagged it already.

 

[Korosenai]

NubInATub, you ever get a partner for the league?

Nah, I didn't try. I've been too busy with school as of late and i'm gonna be gone most of this winter break. Wouldn't have had enough time to play. Thanks for asking though.

 

[kittens]

Guys, let's not get mad at 343 for copying cod and metroid prime, cuts had to be made.

Nice to see some of our seasoned veterans are grilling the staff about it though.

More big maps? Issues aren't something you guys should skirt, stakes are pretty high.

At least they decided to trim the fat out of the playlists.

Protein Vision is overpowered as fuck.

You guys are gonna bitch until the cows come home.

let's talk about our favorite fruit again

 

[YourExWife]

Someone snagged it already.

Figures. Post still applies. GO GET IT!

 

[Tawpgun]

let's talk about our favorite fruit again

There is no favorite fruit.

There is only raspberries and regular fruit.

 

[kylej]

Let's reminisce, shall we?

that guy in the video is a real asshat for beating up on Gray Man/Starwolf.

 

[Sai-kun]

let's talk about our favorite fruit again

edited because that's probably bannable on some level. my favorite fruits are pomegranates and blueberries

 

[Karl2177]

mines heckfu's banana

gross

 

[Plywood]

The Halo 4 Crimson Map Pack trailer was either a quick job or incredibly rushed, maybe both.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Can we get some beefier challenges? I find it funny that the Ops challenges are worth 1500 and 1100. I can get twice that from one multiplayer match...

 

[Aggrotek]

There is no favorite fruit.

There is only raspberries and regular fruit.

This.

 

[Ramirez]

There are those who said this day would never come, what are they to say now?

 

[heckfu]

edited because that's probably bannable on some level. my favorite fruits are pomegranates and blueberries

-______-

 

[Aggrotek]

edited because that's probably bannable on some level. my favorite fruits are pomegranates and blueberries

The proof is in Karl's response. It's too late Sai. The end is nigh.

 

[Karl2177]

hahahahahahahahaha

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

-______-

Don't worry, it was something about dingleberries I think, nothing bad.

 

[Der Flatulator]

hahahahahahahahaha

Now you have the power of changing that quote to whatever you want it to be

 

[Karl2177]

Now you have the power of changing that quote to whatever you want it to be

I already did and that's why it's so funny to me.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

The Halo 4 Crimson Map Pack trailer was either a quick job or incredibly rushed, maybe both.

Goes with the rest of it, no?

Oh snap

 

[Der Flatulator]

 

[NullPointer]

Be that as it may, Halo's combat design is also unique among modern shooters. And so the many ways in which it both has and has not been updated in Halo 4 has created some tension and contradictions in the game design, IMO. For example, instant respawn doesn't work with Halo because Halo was built around the idea of a required downtime between encounters for players to recharge their shields. Letting a defeated player hop back into the game and kill someone who just defeated them, before that player has recharged their shields, breaks the combat design. One element is "brought up to date", but it runs smack into the reason Halo worked in the first place.

That's just one example. And in some ways the easiest example. But I think there are a fair number of similar uncomfortable updates, where modernizing Halo is also breaking it, with Halo 4. I think 343 needs to either pull back from the direction they've gone, or go down the path more fully, in order to make it really work.

It'd be nice to know if these kinds of changes are even in the cards - if 343 sees their role as continuous steward between releases. If I was them I'd split these changes up in two: Changes that keep essential Halo systems intact (unbreak them, your example of instant respawn / shield recharge) and those that enhance competition by removing random elements and added customization options. There is a difference between the two, and that seems to me like an opportunity.

The first set of changes you put into play across all playlists as a baseline, and the second category of changes are just put into pro playlists, which this game seems to need more of.

/armchair-dev

 

[Ramirez]

I think people didn't click my link.

The week 1 matchups for the league are up, if you are in the league, please click this and start setting up your matches.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44907515&postcount=139

 

[Devin Olsen]

Halo 4 Multiplayer Pro Tips: Spartan Ops and War Games

Brought to you by Doritos, Mt.Dew and Xbox Live GOLD.

I'm impressed they were able to squeeze actual gameplay in between all of those marketing plugs.

 

[Plywood]

Goes with the rest of it, no?

Oh snap

I didn't want to say anything about the maps because I'm feeling a bit apathetic but:

Initial impressions-

Wreckage makes me think Erosion with Campaign assets, also brown, brown, brown.

Harvest makes me think this is the map Complex probably should have been, which leads me to: Complex 2.0.

Shatter - Abandon, Complex and Vortex had a kryptonite babby.

"Maps for objective"

Speaks for itself.

 

[Tawpgun]

What time do we have to complete the matches by?

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Scratch that, nvm.

 

[Ramirez]

What time do we have to complete the matches by?

Just get them done before Monday morning.

Move all discussion of the league to that thread, it makes for a healthy league, trust me!

 

[ncsuDuncan]

While we're waiting for the podcast to finish uploading, I'd like to call attention to a new thing I'm doing at HaloGAF.com:

Whenever I see any well-written posts that I feel should be archived, I'm going to post them to the HaloGAF.com front page for posterity. This should make them easier to find later on without having to figure out the magic keyword combination to search for.

First up: Fyrewulff's Forge Fantasy

If you'd like to nominate a post for a future TL;DR feature, send me a PM or an email. I'm mostly looking for three types of posts:
- Reviews of Halo content.
- Intelligent discussion of gameplay elements and/or suggestions for future games.
- Particularly funny posts. (Not just passing jokes, but things that future readers will laugh at.)

Sometimes I'll rehost the entire post and sometimes I'll just post links. If I want to rehost, I'll send the author a PM first. I don't have the archive framework up yet, but I'll get that together soon.

 

[Der Flatulator]

"Maps for objective"

Speaks for itself.

Well I think this is good, as chances are the next two map packs will have a different focus, perhaps Small Symmetric Competitive, and Asym FFA.

 

[Plywood]

Well I think this is good, as chances are the next two map packs will have a different focus, perhaps Small Symmetric Competitive, and Asym FFA.

My point was that a statement such as that could be viewed negatively considering the state of Objective in Halo 4.

 

[Aggrotek]

My point was that a statement such as that could be viewed negatively considering the state of Objective in Halo 4.

I like objective in Halo 4.

 

[CyReN]

There better be a Arena style map pack..

If there isn't it's probably too late at this point. Forge on my brothers (or attempt to with limited options!)

 

[willow ve]

Well I think this is good, as chances are the next two map packs will have a different focus, perhaps Small Symmetric Competitive, and Asym FFA.

Will there still be anyone left in 3 months who's clamoring for more 4v4 small symmetrical maps? I can't imagine they'll stick around for months and months and months with the hope that they get more 4v4 maps into the game. That's a lot of time playing Haven over and over again.

And please, for the love of everything in Halo, can we at least get symmetrical spawns on Haven? Why do you spawn in the middle of the arc and the other team on the bottom of the ramp? Why not at each end of the map? Just once I would like to hear a developer defend some of these decisions like this.

 

[DeadNames]

There better be a Arena style map pack..

If there isn't it's probably too late at this point. Forge on my brothers (or attempt to with limited options!)

Isn't the second one supposed to be small maps?