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Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights

K

kylej

Banned
u4iX said:
So many people wanted a canonical explanation for a multiplayer experience too, right?
Click to expand...

343: We're adding flinch and recoil to the shooting mechanics of Halo.

Consumer: Why?

343: Buy this Halo 4 skin in Forza Motorsport for 5 bucks!
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
The difference is that Halo comes out every few years and CoD comes out every year. The players have different expectations. CoD is kinda beating the system because they have 2 devs put 2 years into each title. Because we play the same game for 2-3 years, I think we expect something new and substantial jumps from title to title. And for the most part in the Halo series, we've had that. We have not seen the jumps we expect lately though.

With CoD, incremental changes do the job. Most people play CoD for a year and move onto the next one. Something like actual ranks for CoD is a huge change.
 
D

DeadNames

Banned
kylej said:
343: We're adding flinch and recoil to the shooting mechanics of Halo.

Consumer: Why?

343: Buy this Halo 4 skin in Forza Motorsport for 5 bucks!
Click to expand...

LOL.

343 does seem pretty distant from their community in terms of bug fixes and other things...

Screenshots, however, not so much.
 
T

Trey

Member
kylej said:
That's about as disingenuous as you can possibly get. Can you imagine how much effort McDonalds puts into developing new products, new ad campaigns, renovations, building plans for franchises, food production, co-marketing, and more? And they have to cater to not just different regions in the US but to the norms and tastes of different countries? I mean, the restaurant industry is about as volatile and filled with turnover as a business can possibly be while still being tenable, requires constant innovation, has extremely high competition, lightning quick sales windows and lives and dies by streamlined technological efficiency. One is a mass produced product aimed at the lowest common denominator - the brainchild of a relatively tiny group of people who control how millions experience the product. The other... is the same thing.
Click to expand...

Fast food is marketed to people that eat, first and foremost. Everyone eats. It found a niche back in the mid-20th century of churning out edible food in a quick manner which complemented the quickening pace of our country as it careened toward the information age. People had demands that needed to be met that second, including a desire to eat. Your disingenuous ploy is in trying to attach McDonald's to the restaurant industry at large.

They exist to provide a product high in chemicals which are biologically specced to affect humans in such a way as to cause satisfaction or addiction. There is only one way to eat food, it's just a matter of how it is delivered, and in what quality. There are a variety of ways to play a game, which in turn introduces much more subjectivity.

Gaming, like other entertainment industries, must innovate to survive when it comes to individual IPs. Genres are redefined almost on a yearly basis, in ways immediately recognizable. It's a "what have you done for me lately?" deal, wherein your immediate audience will just go on to the next big thing. It is innovation of ideas that changes the way people think and experience the product before them. Critical analysis, objective comparisons, longevity. There was always the Big Mac. Nobody knows what iterations it went through, it's just the big mac. But Mario has had dozens of game in its run, going into other genres.

The gaming industry is the same as the fast food industry in all the broad sensibilities you could compare two business. They differ in the development of ideas, and how those ideas translate and are embraced by the consumer. They differ in the transparency of the creators. They differ in the cultural relevancy which defines each respective industry throughout eras.
 
K

kylej

Banned
Amazing Mic said:
I don't argue ranks add longevity. My take is this: The vocal members here and elsewhere are often like ranks = population. To a degree, this may be true. But it is as if people are arguing that you released H2 w/ H4 graphical capabilities you'd have H2 pop numbers again. My take is your average player is going to see Halo ranks and his bronze or his 35 or whatever- and he's going to run to COD as fast as he can because the option is there now.

I really would not be surprised that in the event 343 does in game ranks that the population is stagnant and it just becomes a huge mess of exploits.

If this crusade actually does come up w/ some system that keeps the masses without turning MM isn't crap, I'll gladly eat crow. I'd love it. I'm just trying to be realistic. I decided late in Reach that I had more fun playing Doubles (post-Arena), getting decent games, then dealing w/ the BS sideshow in Arena. Nothing to do with whether Arena players were "nerds" or try-hards, or whatever- ranked has always been like that.

So when 343 comes and says your CSR is coming later- I see it as a pretty decent compromise.
Click to expand...

Your posts are so full of illogical statements that I'm not sure how long I will keep replying to them.

Nobody is arguing that ranks = population. People are saying that a certain group of people are drawn to ranked play. By adding ranks, you can get those people in addition to the larger part of your playerbase who enjoys casual unranked play.

Second, if ranked playlists become a huge mess of exploits, this is not the fault of the player population, it is the fault of shitty playlist management.

Third, adding ranks to Waypoint isn't a compromise, because the only people who will care about their Waypoint rank are the people who don't want their ranks to be on Waypoint.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Amazing Mic said:
I don't argue ranks add longevity. My take is this: The vocal members here and elsewhere are often like ranks = population. To a degree, this may be true. But it is as if people are arguing that you released H2 w/ H4 graphical capabilities you'd have H2 pop numbers again. My take is your average player is going to see Halo ranks and his bronze or his 35 or whatever- and he's going to run to COD as fast as he can because the option is there now.
Click to expand...
When people here or elsewhere say they want the same thing they do not mean a copy/paste job. What they want is what works, the same formula, refined, tweaked, made better with each iteration. Not fundamentally altered. When they want something substantial they expect things that add to the experience not take way. I don't see the average player leaving over a rank, if the player likes the game they will stay, play and improve.
kylej said:
Third, adding ranks to Waypoint isn't a compromise, because the only people who will care about their Waypoint rank are the people who don't want their ranks to be on Waypoint.
Click to expand...
So much this.
 
K

kylej

Banned
Trey said:
Fast food is marketed to people that eat, first and foremost. Everyone eats. It found a niche back in the mid-20th century of churning out edible food in a quick manner which complemented the quickening pace of our country as it careened toward the information age. People had demands that needed to be met that second, including a desire to eat. Your disingenuous ploy is in trying to attach McDonald's to the restaurant industry at large.

They exist to provide a product high in chemicals which are biologically specced to affect humans in such a way as to cause satisfaction or addiction. There is only one way to eat food, it's just a matter of how it is delivered, and in what quality. There are a variety of ways to play a game, which in turn introduces much more subjectivity.

Gaming, like other entertainment industries, must innovate to survive when it comes to individual IPs. Genres are redefined almost on a yearly basis, in ways immediately recognizable. It's a "what have you done for me lately?" deal, wherein your immediate audience will just go on to the next big thing. It is innovation of ideas that changes the way people think and experience the product before them. Critical analysis, objective comparisons, longevity. There was always the Big Mac. Nobody knows what iterations it went through, it's just the big mac. But Mario has had dozens of game in its run, going into other genres.

The gaming industry is the same as the fast food industry in all the broad sensibilities you could compare two business. They differ in the development of ideas, and how those ideas translate and are e,braced by the consumer. They differ in the transparency of the creators. They differ in the cultural relevancy which defines each respective industry throughout eras.
Click to expand...

You can romanticize and categorize McDonalds however you want to try to make it fit your argument. Video games like Halo and and food like the Big Mac are mass produced for public consumption (literally and figuratively in this case). The point you were originally responding to and my point in the follow up post wasn't that every single element of McDonalds and Halo are exactly the same so I'm not sure why you wrote 4 paragraphs rebuffing that. Deadly Cyclone suggested that if you don't dramatically change your product before a certain amount of time, people will get sick of it. That's false, as objectively proven by sales of certain products in both industries.
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
Fuck, it's 2.30 am and you guys are making me hungry as hell with all your food talk. Having nothing I want to eat right now doesn't make the situation better.
 
M

malfcn

Member
Tomorrow is the first day to 1000 this game right? Now we really see if everyone bails. All the achievement hunters can flip it.
 
Z

zap

Member
I still am trying to figure out how Halo 4 is the most expensive Halo game ever.

343 has fewer employees than Bungie did for over the game dev time, the game was developed for less time (man hours-wise). The only thing I am thinking is that the outsourcing to CA and the CGI guys was really expensive. I just don't get it.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
zap said:
I still am trying to figure out how Halo 4 is the most expensive Halo game ever.

343 has fewer employees than Bungie did for over the game dev time, the game was developed for less time (man hours-wise). The only thing I am thinking is that the outsourcing to CA and the CGI guys was really expensive. I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

Marketing. Doritoes, Dew, Press Events, Helicopters, Hollywood Directors' TV Ads.

If they put even half that marketing cash towards making the game better...

Well no, that's not how these things work. They are after the COD cashpile. Got to spend money to make money.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
malfcn said:
Tomorrow is the first day to 1000 this game right? Now we really see if everyone bails. All the achievement hunters can flip it.
Click to expand...

Meh, no rewards or something via Waypoint just the Raider Helmet for playing Spartan Ops on legendary.

Slightly Live said:
Marketing. Doritoes, Dew, Press Events, Helicopters, Hollywood Directors' TV Ads.

If they put even half that marketing cash towards making the game better...

Well no, that's not how these things work. They are after the COD cashpile. Got to spend money to make money.
Click to expand...



Actually the Halo 4 Ads in mexico were a little silent and only aired on pay tv and some casinos.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
I think they made like a waste of time half movie thing too.

I should get around to watching that trainwreck, maybe that will help me understand Halo 4.
 
T

Tunavi

Banned
zap said:
I still am trying to figure out how Halo 4 is the most expensive Halo game ever.

343 has fewer employees than Bungie did for over the game dev time, the game was developed for less time (man hours-wise). The only thing I am thinking is that the outsourcing to CA and the CGI guys was really expensive. I just don't get it.
Click to expand...
They didn't even make the game engine.

What did 343 do for 5 years?
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Good discussion with the Halo vs McDonalds vs CoD :]


Personally, I wouldn't mind if Halo 5 went the way of adding MAC Blasts, Glassing, Carpet Bombs, Healing Rings, Gravity Hammer Vortexes and Sword Raging if you earned enough points for your Ordnance. They could just say they combined ideas from H4/Halo Wars instead of CoD and the world would be ok, as long as there was another developer releasing a Halo that innovates on Halo 1/2 while keeping the fundamentals intact.

Right?


But really, at this point I would not be opposed to splitting the MM. One with Infinity and one with Classic, then have all the appropriate playlists fall in.

Infinity
  • TS
  • FFA
  • BTB Slayer
Would be the current Halo 4 settings for those playlists.


Classic
  • TS
  • FFA
  • BTB Slayer/OBJ
  • CTF
  • Oddball
  • KotH
  • Dominion
  • Extraction
The Classic Playlist settings would be what the general consensus seems to want (no instant respawn, Global Ordnance not being completely random, sound-based radar (fair compromise), etc.) plus these Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades as default traits, while keeping the custom loadouts only for weapons.
  • Ammo (Only for loadout weapons)
  • Dexterity
  • Drop Recon (So basically a weapon spawn system that functions like classic Halo but helps players by giving them a few second reminder that a power weapon is spawning)
  • Gunner
  • Mobility (For BTB and maybe other playlists)
  • Shielding (Since it takes 6 secs to begin recharging)
  • Resupply (Have it function like Classic Halo though, not automatically giving you 1 of each grenade the person was carrying before they died..)
  • Firepower (This should've always been a default feature IMO - give you a pool of starting weapons to choose from, you decide what you want to use in your primary/secondary slots - Who cares if I want to spawn with a Magnum/PP? But I shouldn't need a "perk" to use a DMR/AR)
  • Wheelman
 
T

Trey

Member
kylej said:
Deadly Cyclone suggested that if you don't dramatically change your product before a certain amount of time, people will get sick of it. That's false, as objectively proven by sales of certain products in both industries.
Click to expand...

Those paragraphs were there to explain why McDonald's do not have to drastically change their product to maintain consumers, while game creators do in many respects.

More concisely, the market has spoken to everyone who makes FPS. It's why the CoD series dramatically changed it's gameplay, and in doing so changed the landscape of the action shooter genre going forward.

Similar to how the Halo franchise gained its popularity by innovating the FPS genre in the first place.

People can and will get tired of the same ol' shit in the video games industry. Especially when something better comes along.
 
A

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
kylej said:
Your posts are so full of illogical statements that I'm not sure how long I will keep replying to them.
Click to expand...
I won't mind- really.

Nobody is arguing that ranks = population. People are saying that a certain group of people are drawn to ranked play. By adding ranks, you can get those people in addition to the larger part of your playerbase who enjoys casual unranked play.
Click to expand...
Seriously, nobody? There is no correlation to all the talk about plummeting population numbers? Come on. You want to nit pick me for slight exaggerations, don't come back at me with more of the same. Maybe I'm mistaken and all the talk was about the overpowered AAs that haven't played any significant role in any game I've played.

Second, if ranked playlists become a huge mess of exploits, this is not the fault of the player population, it is the fault of shitty playlist management.
Click to expand...
It's 343's fault that some jackass grabbed my IP?

Third, adding ranks to Waypoint isn't a compromise, because the only people who will care about their Waypoint rank are the people who don't want their ranks to be on Waypoint.
Click to expand...
Well, since you make such a practice making huge deals out of the small sample sizes that support your point- I can think of one person.
 
P

Poker Face

Member
Ken said:
what have i done
Click to expand...

you have pleased our leader

HqMxW.png
 
K

kylej

Banned
Amazing Mic said:
I won't mind- really.


Seriously, nobody? There is no correlation to all the talk about plummeting population numbers? Come on. You want to nit pick me for slight exaggerations, don't come back at me with more of the same.


It's 343's fault that some jackass grabbed my IP?


Well, since you make such a practice making huge deals out of the small sample sizes that support your point- I can think of one person.
Click to expand...

Everything you said right there made zero sense.
 
A

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
Karl2177 said:
In that case, it's not a problem of playlist management or the system. That's a problem of that person's character and motivations.
Click to expand...

I agree- and maybe I'm alone in this, but that significantly and consistently degraded my experience in the past.

kylej said:
Everything you said right there made zero sense.
Click to expand...

I have no problem w/ you or anyone not agreeing w/ my opinion. I don't see how you could call me illogical when we repeatedly talk comparisons with H2 or even the H3 ranking culture. The FPS landscape has changed so much since then.

Seriously though, kyle, I hope you lead some incredibly sarcastic movement that gets a functional rank system and more competitive gameplay in Halo. I will applaud you and love the game even more for it.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Amazing Mic said:
I agree- and maybe I'm alone in this, but that significantly and consistently degraded my experience in the past.
Click to expand...

I don't know what your side on this argument is. I'm saying that 343i should aim for preventative network defense to avoid it as much as possible. In the event that something slips through, have the ability to record all information about said player and ban accordingly. I don't understand what that has to do with a ranking system at all.
 
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