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Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I would've preferred a beta, hell we all would've, but 343 doesn't have the creative rights Bungie had so many of us saw this kind of stuff coming. As long as they fix stuff in a timely manner I'll survive. And yes, good times is right; 25 hours or so of multiplayer and i've definitely already gotten more than my money's worth.
I'm just messing around. All I'm implying is that a beta could have helped out a lot.
Syphon Filter
Member
those things would have made it anyways so whats the point?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
This kind of grinds on me a bit (I know you are half joking, but the "343 is lazy" thing that has come up in general). 343 created an entire studio and full AAA game in what, 3 years? I'm not making excuses for any of the issues or debatable additions to Halo, but let's be honest in a business/development sense here, they did an enormous amount of work in the time they had. People ask why things like campaign theater got cut, and why Certain Affinity got called in for Forge/MP maps, but it's clear why these happened.
343 met, decided on what features they could do within the little time they had, and chopped the rest or outsourced it. This may be funny to the negative people in the room, but I fully expect Halo 5 to be the "full force" of 343 now that the studio exists and has a base to work with.
Sometimes it takes years just to get a studio off the ground, 343 did that and made a critically acclaimed AAA game with some neat additions. Regardless of if you like or dislike Halo 4 and its changes you have to admit 343 did some crazy work to get this whole thing done and out the door. I think Halo 5 will be the one they can finally put their full might into. 343 is not lazy, they had to make decisions to ship a game in 2012.
BlueScrote
Member
It really is. The score board font in particular is really bad.
JohnOfMars
Banned
After two episodes, here are my thoughts on what I'd like to see in future Spartan Ops episodes:
Gameplay:
Story:
Gameplay:
- Scoring - The whole first episode is about competing with another team (Crimson vs. Gypsy), but we can't actually compete with them in any meaningful way. Give us scores so we can compete between our team. The game is already tracking this anyway. Put it on the HUD!
- Finite Lives - Let our antics have a cost.
- Failure MUST be an option - If it's not possible to fail, then I don't think you can truly succeed. Right now, dying is a great choice because you respawn with more ammo.
- Wave Defense - Make it matter that we just took a structure. There are waves now, but no down time. Give us a breather (which works great in campaign) and then have the waves hit even harder.
- Skulls - Let us customize the experience. Also, it's damn weird to not hear Grunt Birthday Party when I pop one of those guys in the face.
- Harder Options - Right now, even on legendary, my friends just plow through the chapters. It's not hard enough.
- Personal Ordnance - Have less ammo just laying on the field and make us earn our power weapons. This works great in Infinity Slayer, and could add a lot of replayability to Spartan Ops. Example: "Last time when I got a drop, I went FRG, but next time I should definitely go binary rifle."
Story:
- Better involvement - right now, since I have infnite lives and can't fail, and Sarah Palmer has said my only job is to shoot things and push buttons, I don't care about the story. How could I? My mission commander is telling me not to care.
- Some measure of choice - Let us make some decisions. Spartans aren't grunts. We're elite soldiers, so act like it and let us have a voice in the story. Let us decide between saving the scientists or capturing the artifact. And let that decision matter in later episodes. Let us decide if we want to sneak past a camp of Covenant and or attack and risk them discovering our plans. If you want "watercooler discussion", choice is the best way to do it. Just look how many people are talking about The Walking Dead adventure game!
- Scenarios that rely on the fact that you're a team. Multiple simultaneous encounters? Ground assault team and an air one? Dual hostage situations? Four bombs about to go off and only time to disable them if we all split up? Make it more than just a single player game without thought to the fact that you're supposed to have four players.
- Less chatter - Let my friends and I be the ones who talk and call things out. I don't need Miller saying "Watch out! Watchers!" or "Phantoms Incoming." By having everything called out, it's another way that we can't fail. Let my team figure things out. Make my team have to keep our eyes open for new phantom drops or drop pods. The game shouldn't call those things out unless I'm failing or taking too long.
So whom or what do we blame? Individuals? Not Invented Here syndrome?
Even the campaign isn't grabbing me (I am stuck on the Banshee part on Legendary, admittedly), and so far I think it has to do with how alone you are. Even if they were useless, Marines as fodder / 3 way battles made it feel alive.
That and it doesn't help that the AI seems really bad. Throw more grenades, please AI.
I can't accept that reasoning, at least not entirely. It's not like they didn't build on Reach's shoulders, here, and a lot of it seems to be their decisionmaking that's in question.
Like the font. It's horrendous and looks like something you'd stick in a beta as a placeholder.
Even the campaign isn't grabbing me (I am stuck on the Banshee part on Legendary, admittedly), and so far I think it has to do with how alone you are. Even if they were useless, Marines as fodder / 3 way battles made it feel alive.
That and it doesn't help that the AI seems really bad. Throw more grenades, please AI.
I can't accept that reasoning, at least not entirely. It's not like they didn't build on Reach's shoulders, here, and a lot of it seems to be their decisionmaking that's in question.
Like the font. It's horrendous and looks like something you'd stick in a beta as a placeholder.
I'm just messing around guys. I applaud 343i for all the work they did in the time they had.
This game is better than Halo 3 and Reach, playing oddball last night is the most fun I've had in Halo since Halo 2.
Edit: Also, I think BigShow might have been having a good time as well running oddball with my friends.
This game is better than Halo 3 and Reach, playing oddball last night is the most fun I've had in Halo since Halo 2.
Edit: Also, I think BigShow might have been having a good time as well running oddball with my friends.
Oh god this.
The matchmaking proximity/ping and accuracy will start improving fairly rapidly very shortly as it gathers newer, more up to date data and uses it.
Syphon Filter
Member
yea the font and Ui overall is terrible and amature.it makes me appreciate nice UI and font more now.we take it for granted.
I was agreeing up until the end. Some of the things you are suggesting would alienate solo-players like myself. I want to be able to play however I want to. If I go in a party or solo, it shouldn't matter.
How to Forge Ordnance drops by Certain Affinity, for those who are interrested.
Well this is good news. Sounds like people from 343 and MS are monitoring and looking to improve things as well.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
None of us know how much of Reach they were able to use. Also, font choices are an opinion. The font you'd have liked would be hated by someone else, etc.
To add to what I noted, I think that is the primary reason why we see Frank mentioning that 343 will be doing more with updates this time. They know they missed a few things, but they had to miss those things to ship the game. Now that it's out they can work on adding those things into the game.
JohnOfMars
Banned
Yeah. I play solo a lot too. But I think there's a way to handle it. If you're playing solo, then whatever team part you don't do is scripted. Instead of having to disarm four bombs, then you only have to disarm one. Or twin hostage situations would be staggered for solo Spartans. Or if given the option to run on ground or storm in the air, a marine squad takes whichever you don't. Having team options increases player interaction with the story and in between players and it increases replayability.
If you're trying to tell a story about a team, I think it's a missed opportunity not to have any moments that really rely on the fact that your'e more than just one person.
bobs...onGaf
Member
That's fantastic news, can't wait till things improve.
So to summarize some common complaints round these parts.
Multiplayer
-SpOps is a letdown so far, writing and mission wise. CG looks great.
-Forge looks prettier, but the forging itself took a step back. Magnets don't work well, no precision editing... so and so.
-Too much random nonsense in MP. The core game is good, but the fluff on top ruins it.
-Not enough MP options
-Slow search times
-Lag
-Where's mah fileshare
Campaign is sort of all over the place as far as criticisms go.
Multiplayer
-SpOps is a letdown so far, writing and mission wise. CG looks great.
-Forge looks prettier, but the forging itself took a step back. Magnets don't work well, no precision editing... so and so.
-Too much random nonsense in MP. The core game is good, but the fluff on top ruins it.
-Not enough MP options
-Slow search times
-Lag
-Where's mah fileshare
Campaign is sort of all over the place as far as criticisms go.
I haven't played around in Forge yet, but it seems like you can indeed just have initial weapon spawns, and have them keep spawning. Awesome. They just need to do this everywhere.
next a video about disabling instant respawns in slayer modes pls.
I really hope slayer pro gets statuc and fixed weapon spawns like at the mlg tournament.
And I need a doubles playlist or multiteam.
Been a designer since 2009ish.
Actually, I'd argue that the font is objectively bad as some people have ridiculously nice / large TV's and can barely / can't see the font.
It's kind of like the incredible UI discussion that went on earlier. Is it REALLY opinion? Yes, it all is.....buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut you could also say it goes agains accepted ideals / practices.
Is the game balls? No. Graphically, it does some really incredible things with the old hardware.
The MP is (obviously) fun for a significant amount of people.
It's not a game that deserves to be tossed into the trash. That being said, though, I do not think it as good as prior installments and no matter what the excuse is (running out of time is an excuse), that remains.
Campaign:
- Not enough story in the actual game, don't hide away key plot elements in terminals.
- Prometheans aren't very fun to fight. Not enough feedback, behaviours aren't very interesting, and there aren't enough of them (only three classes)
- Encounters aren't as interesting because the enemy variety is so low and the AI seems simpler
- Not enough large-scale encounters.
-Short?
I think these seem pretty universal.
Spartan Ops just feels so lazy. Every mission boils down to: 1) Go push buttons and kill things on the way 2) Kill all the enemies that spawn after this objective is completed 3) Exit level.
Also, I'm uncertain as to why 343i feels that spawning a upwards of 12 elites at a time, some of which with fuel rod cannons, constitutes as "fun" combat. Not to mention someone decided that the sword should now mysteriously be invisible when an elite is cloaking.
Overall, Spartan Ops feels really half-assed besides the CGI, which is fantastic. The story is mediocre, and rehashing the same levels again is leaving a lot to be desired.
Also, I'm uncertain as to why 343i feels that spawning a upwards of 12 elites at a time, some of which with fuel rod cannons, constitutes as "fun" combat. Not to mention someone decided that the sword should now mysteriously be invisible when an elite is cloaking.
Overall, Spartan Ops feels really half-assed besides the CGI, which is fantastic. The story is mediocre, and rehashing the same levels again is leaving a lot to be desired.
Eh, some people, including me disagree on the prometheans. I loved fighting them. But agree about not being enough of them.
Everything else I agree with.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I agree with the first point (the terminal part). I disagree with the idea that there was not enough story. I found this story to be much better than Halo 3, and to have more depth than any of the Halo games. They just needed to tell some parts a bit better and add some clarity.
Also the game took me almost 9 hours on Heroic, from my standpoint that's a bit above average for a shooter and was just about the right amount of time for a shooter campaign.
I also enjoyed fighting the Prometheans, I'd just like to see more variations next time as you mentioned.
Our approach to updates and sustain support will be much more frequent and organic than before. There are limits to this of course, but it won't simply be bug fixes or glitch-fixes (some of which can be done fairly rapidly, like carneyholes in maps) but added features and functionality too. Like tending a garden.
Blue Ninja
Member
Urk must have a Gaf filter for his name and anything Bungie. He's like Batman dropping in here.
The hero we need, but do not deserve.
Digital Limit
Member
I've been experiencing a bug where ordnance drops won't have their icons over them, e.g. I start Adrift and grab the Sticky Detonator without ever seeing the icon, or I drop a SAW via personal ordnance and never see the icon.
Someone should add that to the list.
Someone should add that to the list.
Videos like this say two things.
1. These maps are too large for 4v4 slayer
2. Instant Respawn cannot be a part of Slayer Pro
But the next game will be on a new console. So they will have the excuse of having to learn the new hardware. Then we'll be saying "well Halo 6 will be better, right?"
Just playing devils advocate. I really have no idea what will happen but I would not be surprised if someone used that argument when the next Halo comes out. I don't totally dislike Halo 4 it just has a lot of problems. The game does some important things right but many other elements of it are frustrating. I am still holding out hope that this game receives extensive updates that make the game more playable and more customizable.
Right now I'm playing it less and less everyday. It just isn't consistently fun.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
I like the sound of that.
Pop
Member
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I see what you're saying, but I don't think that will happen. They have the studio complete now, they don't have to worry about building a studio and game at the same time. Plus, they should have the next-gen hardware already, and know how to make their game work on it. The fact that they had to build the entire studio from the ground up before starting Halo 4 development is the one thing I think lead to a lot of the cuts.
Digital Limit
Member
Right, because sometimes you lose. Such is the nature of a competitive game.
They started in 2008 and built from there so about 4 years, that's plenty of time considering the amount of talent they have at 343i. This is there first game together however and will hopefully learn from this launch to move Halo forward.
thezerofire
Banned
1) You see all the player cards all the time unless you're party leader, and then you don't see any of them. what gives? Also red x's
2) not overpowered, but the carbine could use a little buff
3) Solace has really weird flow. I don't particularly like it. Too much random stuff around and you have to jump on ledges just to see across the map. Just weird.
4) haven't really played customs yet
5) too many recycled environments, stop making fun of geeks ;_; Palmer is just kinda annoying
6) ending was really confusing as to what actually happened and how. I think Ghaleon brought up a lot of good points on this front
7) spawning system is still kinda broken in objective gametypes. One team often spawns right next to the hill/ball whether they have the hill/ball or not. Weapons in Slayer Pro don't drop often enough. No red x's. The time to return for CTF is way way way too long
8) Complex glitch
9) haven't used forge yet
9.8
hay u cant use that
Infinity Slayer is a bit messy but I've been sticking to it for the sake of playing the main/default game. It sucks playing a rebel playlist, I'm so sick of it after Reach. It's not that bad, the key is just not giving a fuck about what Halo has become and just rolling with it focusing on the positive aspects, like the super satisfying gunplay.
edit-
Looking forward to the fixes and updates Frank, I hope you guys go all out and break some ground on post release support for a console game, PC gaming (specifically Valve) has spoiled me greatly. And accept my game invite sometime.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I literally fell asleep while watching that.
Don't let the forum haters bring you guys down too much. Personally this is my GOTY by a long mile, and I'm completely in love with this more than any other Halo game. Pat on the back for everyone.
My only complaints off the top of my head are:
Wish I had more maps in Infinity Slayer, or at least take away the voting option honestly.
Wish Auto Sentry was a bit more useful.
Wish DMR wasn't such a clear cut winner for weapon choice 90% of the time.
Syphon Filter
Member
why.
Garrett 2U
Member
This is so disappointing to me.
I love the Light Rifle but it just isn't consistent enough to compete with the hitscan DMR.
So can you suggest to the team to add in death x's and campaign theater?
Also make sure slayer pro never gets axed.
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