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[Nebula]

The one rewarding and fun weapon in the whole game is being used as a scapegoat for atrocious map design and half-assed design constructs on 343's part.

This I disagree with. I don't get that feeling when using the DMR. I rarely get DMR battles. It feels CoD like when I use it, and when I come against it. Battles normally go to the first shooter. Of course flinch and connection factor in, but that still doesn't remove the fact that I don't feel rewarded when I get kills with it. I feel like I'm taking the easy route. Also taking Reach into it, I never felt rewarded then either, without flinch factoring in.

Still though, there is no denying that map design, and the design of most things in multiplayer are less than optimal. People have complained about a number of things in this game. The DMR isn't a scapegoat however.

 

[EagleBurnn]

Why is there a middle section in Ragnarok? The middle could just be a giant pit and it would play the same.

 

[kylej]

So your own argument is based on 343's half-assed design constructs that you are complaining about?

What? My argument is that the DMR is perfect for what it is designed to be. Instead of saying "all weapons should be nebulously balanced therefore we should nerf the DMR because it's not balanced under certain conditions" you should first say "all maps should be balanced for all weapons as they were designed". If the maps are a clusterfuck, tweaking variables on certain weapons isn't going to do shit for the vast majority of people.

Then you're stuck with the shitty BR spread.

That's certainly the DMR's fault.

 

[op_ivy]

all the dmr needs is a slightly slower rate of fire. make it outclassed by the other rifles at close and medium as far as kill times and its role will be only for long range where it should be. you'd introduce more variety in loadouts used. a dmr + pistol loadout for long sightline maps (btb) and the pistol would actually be a better tool up close. firepower pairing dmr and a more capable medium range rifle. or, just a standard loadout with a better close medium rifle in light rifle/carbine/br. either way, you'd have a lot more variety in engagement, still be able to have an option for taking out snipers or players over huge distances, and likely a pretty significant drop off of the amount of dmrs in action in all maps leading to a shortened engagement range. all good things in my book and easy to implement without drastic changes to the gun itself (like in changing power or zoom)

 

[Duji]

What? My argument is that the DMR is perfect for what it is designed to be.

Who cares what it was designed to be? The Needler is perfect for what it is designed to be. The Halo: Reach Beta Plasma Launcher was perfect for what it was designed to be. They're both stupid, skill-less weapons.

What we care about is whether or not a weapon suits Halo's medium paced, middle-range combat focused gameplay. The DMR does not do that. Why does it not do that? Because the default movement speed does not complement the DMR's long range capabilities. If we had a game with faster movement speed, the DMR would need the amount of aim assist that it has now to be a suitable long range weapon. Right now, players move slow enough to make the DMR easy as fuck to get long range kills with. It's overkill.

 

[Tashi]

I called Nutter crazy but now I do wonder if making the BR a 4 shot gun would make these weapons coexist nicely.

 

[Orochinagis]

Today I played some BTB matches, my team and I were obliterated by an army of DMR players using it as a sniper rifles, they take high ground so pretty much they win the battle at the first minutes of the match.

How to fix the DMR:

if it remains a loadout weapon:
-lower aim assist
-2 or 2.5x scope
-no bloom
-lock rate of fire

if it becomes a weapon drop
-keep 3x scope
-make rate of fire slightly faster than sniper rifle
-3 shot kill
-lowered aim assist

As is, it's completely overpowered.

So we are following the gears of wars 3 mess

The DMR needs recoil, lower its damage, lower its rate of fire or in worst case scenario, bloom, COD made it right with that kind of weapons adding Range and Precision stats.

 

[NobleGundam]

Halo 4 community infographic

We proudly present the first Halo community infographic. The response to this survey was really overwhelming. In total there have been 3210 surveys completed! It is very clear that the community wants more interaction with 343 Industries. At Gamersuggestions we want to facilitate this interaction. You can post suggestions and the community will rank them using a like/dislike system, this way developers can see in the blink of an eye which changes gamers want. We think Halo 4 is a great game, but it has so much more potential. Halo has a very loyal and vocal community that wants to help Halo 4 reach this potential.

For this purpose we have redesigned our site and it has gone live today. As a pilot we have added several categories (such as weapon balance, forge, gametypes etc.) to create an even better overview of which changes the Halo community wants.

The Halo community is active on several different sites. We want to combine the power of the community and gather and organize all suggestions and feedback at Gamersuggestions. If the community speaks with one voice, 343 Industries will have to listen. We will do whatever is in our power to get 343’s attention, but we need your help! Share this infographic, retweet this to @bsangel, post & vote on suggestions, share our site and do whatever you can to get 343 to listen!

Thank you good sir. Sharing your Infograph.

 

[Karl2177]

What? My argument is that the DMR is perfect for what it is designed to be. Instead of saying "all weapons should be nebulously balanced therefore we should nerf the DMR because it's not balanced under certain conditions" you should first say "all maps should be balanced for all weapons as they were designed". If the maps are a clusterfuck, tweaking variables on certain weapons isn't going to do shit for the vast majority of people.

You aren't going to have a good BTB map with DMRs, I can pretty much guarantee it. Headlong was a great map, but was ruined in Reach. Valhalla was fairly good, but was ruined in Halo 4. The things that were in those two games that weren't in Halo 2 and 3 were armor abilities and DMRs, and both destroyed the maps.

For the record, I'm for turning the DMR into a pickup weapon and making it 4 shots to kill at a fairly quick speed. That way not everyone has it in BTB, and you can force it as a starting weapon in MLG styled gametypes. Since Halo 4 backed itself into a corner with the Spartan Points progression system, I'm for lowering the aim assist on it. Because as it stands, it is a weapon that doesn't have a role, so it is messing with the balance in the entire casual to hyper-competitive range.

 

[orznge]

things to change in Halo:

• is the FOV still low? if it is make it higher
• aim assist
• magnetism
• player physics
• put the crosshair in the middle of the screen what the fuck
• kill times
• basically make the "precision weapon" into the CE pistol
• decent weapon/powerup spawn system
• if you're going to have those dumb-as-shit AAs put a clear visual indicator on a player's model that lets other players know which one they're using at a glance
• make maps that are good (The Cage made it into a retail game lol)
• fix forge
• filshare or theater or whatever I don't even know what the issues are with those I just know there's issues
• BTB where vehicles are not a deathtrap
• make medals colorful and easy to discern from one another (why was this even reversed lol)
• please do not tie a player's abilities to their xp
• nading weapons/powerups owns

what else needs to be on that list? I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff I wrote it in like two minutes

 

[Omni]

If it's so easy to hit people at distance with the DMR, why not clear people off who are pinging you? If someone has map control and is spawn trapping you (which is basically impossible in Halo 4), that's your fault. I'm not sure why people are arguing that the DMR is overpowered because it can hit you from far away, when they too have a DMR and can shoot people from far away. The one rewarding and fun weapon in the whole game is being used as a scapegoat for atrocious map design and half-assed design constructs on 343's

Isn't that like saying 'oh the boltshot isn't overpowered because you can spawn with one too'?

The entire problem with the DMR is that any semi-coordinated player can sit at the back of the map and get uncontested kills all match. He'll, that's all I did when I had the game. While 343i's map design has been far from stellar, a lot of the maps (especially the bigger ones... which is pretty much all of them) would play a lot better if people weren't forced to hide behind rocks all match. Admittedly, I think that the DMR works on a map like Haven as there are no real long sightlines... But in a game that's so obviously focused in bigger environment and player counts, the gun definetly needs to be tweaked.

 

[DeadNames]

things to change in Halo:

• is the FOV still low? if it is make it higher
• aim assist
• magnetism
• player physics
• put the crosshair in the middle of the screen what the fuck
• kill times
• basically make the "precision weapon" into the CE pistol
• decent weapon/powerup spawn system
• if you're going to have those dumb-as-shit AAs put a clear visual indicator on a player's model that lets other players know which one they're using at a glance
• make maps that are good (The Cage made it into a retail game lol)
• fix forge
• filshare or theater or whatever I don't even know what the issues are with those I just know there's issues
• BTB where vehicles are not a deathtrap
• make medals colorful and easy to discern from one another (why was this even reversed lol)
• please do not tie a player's abilities to their xp
• nading weapons/powerups owns

what else needs to be on that list? I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff I wrote it in like two minutes

Forge color palettes please.

 

[orznge]

ATTENTION MICROSOFT: release a Halo game for windows with a decent SDK

 

[orznge]

Forge color palettes please.

lol remember when we argued and argued and argued in this thread over the technical feasibility of letting players create even a single decent visual landmark in a forge map?

 

[orznge]

imagine a H3 with sweet player movement and rocket arena and freeze tag and all kinds of sweet shit

edit: "oops" triple post

 

[Rev3rb]

things to change in Halo:

• is the FOV still low? if it is make it higher
• aim assist
• magnetism
• player physics
• put the crosshair in the middle of the screen what the fuck
• kill times
• basically make the "precision weapon" into the CE pistol
• decent weapon/powerup spawn system
• if you're going to have those dumb-as-shit AAs put a clear visual indicator on a player's model that lets other players know which one they're using at a glance
• make maps that are good (The Cage made it into a retail game lol)
• fix forge
• filshare or theater or whatever I don't even know what the issues are with those I just know there's issues
• BTB where vehicles are not a deathtrap
• make medals colorful and easy to discern from one another (why was this even reversed lol)
• please do not tie a player's abilities to their xp
• nading weapons/powerups owns

what else needs to be on that list? I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff I wrote it in like two minutes

Scratch this one off the list.

Spoiler

nice triple

 

[heckfu]

ATTENTION MICROSOFT: release a Halo game for windows with a decent SDK

lol remember when we argued and argued and argued in this thread over the technical feasibility of letting players create even a single decent visual landmark in a forge map?

imagine a H3 with sweet player movement and rocket arena and freeze tag and all kinds of sweet shit

edit: "oops" triple post

lol lol lol good post

 

[NobleGundam]

Please 343. Ship it.

 

[orznge]

just do a one-off multiplayer game that's vaguely based on CE and call it Halo: Reloaded and give it a PC port, SDK, and decent dedicated server software

 

[Genesis Knight]

Does K/D in Custom Games impact what I see when I look at my in-game service record stats?

 

[DeadNames]

I take back what I said about Davidge. Requiem is one of my favorite Halo tracks yet. Plus the way it was played in campaign was jaw dropping.

 

[kylej]

Precisely.


That's not what I asked you. I, too, have no problem with a weapon being able to hit people via all lines of sight on a competitive symmetrical map. I fucking hated Reach bloom and H3 BR spread.

You just asked me if I have a problem with the DMR's range on Haven. I said I don't. You said you also don't have a problem with that. What?

Who cares what it was designed to be? The Needler is perfect for what it is designed to be. The Halo: Reach Beta Plasma Launcher was perfect for what it was designed to be. They're both stupid, skill-less weapons.

What we care about is whether or not a weapon suits Halo's medium paced, middle-range combat focused gameplay. The DMR does not do that. Why does it not do that? Because the default movement speed does not complement the DMR's long range capabilities. If we had a game with faster movement speed, the DMR would need the amount of aim assist that it has now to be a suitable long range weapon. Right now, players move slow enough to make the DMR easy as fuck to get long range kills with. It's overkill.

The DMR is at fault because something that isn't the DMR isn't right for the DMR, so the solution is to change the DMR. Got it.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Dujimon digivolved to a member? ;'[

just do a one-off multiplayer game that's vaguely based on CE and call it Halo: Reloaded and give it a PC port, SDK, and decent dedicated server software

Have you not been reading my posts?

Spoiler

Combat Evolved 2.

 

[Tashi]

You just asked me if I have a problem with the DMR's range on Haven. I said I don't. You said you also don't have a problem with that. What?



The DMR is at fault because something that isn't the DMR isn't right for the DMR, so the solution is to change the DMR. Got it.

LOL

 

[heckfu]

The DMR is at fault because something that isn't the DMR isn't right for the DMR, so the solution is to change the DMR. Got it.

Oh, well now I get it too.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

 

[DeadNames]

Why would someone soil Halo 2 with that garbage.


why.

 

[Duji]

You just asked me if I have a problem with the DMR's range on Haven. I said I don't. You said you also don't have a problem with that. What?

It sounds like you're under the impression that aim assist is absolutely necessary to have in order to even hit things across the map.

I asked you if you had a problem with the red reticle range on Haven. You know, how far you can hit players until aim assist no longer helps you. You said you have nothing against a weapon that can hit players across Haven. I don't either. The DMR can hit players across the map without aim assist. It's not the H3 BR.

Here, I'll rephrase the question: do you think the DMR's aim assist radius should be THAT big?

The DMR is at fault because something that isn't the DMR isn't right for the DMR, so the solution is to change the DMR. Got it.

You lost me.

Dujimon digivolved to a member? ;'[

A girl used to call me that in high school. lol

 

[Rev3rb]

Fuck. No.

 

[kylej]

Here, I'll rephrase the question: do you think the DMR's aim assist radius should be THAT big?

Yep.

 

[Ghazi]

No.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Congratulations, your now a minority. There is no return, we all know this. Games like the old Halos are on the way out, same shit happened with the Quakes and Unreal Tournaments etc.

Halo 4 is a good game. Your wasting your time if your holding out for Halo 5 or whatever to go back to the old style. The majority dont want that. The majority wants Cod styled games, we got Halos version of perks, killstreaks etc.

Your out your mind if you think thats going away anytime soon.

This is so wrong on so many levels. The majority who wants CoD style games is playing CoD right now. Halo 4 MP has tanked.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

For those who don't understand what Duji is saying, allow me point you over to a quick search I found on YouTube. SO much metagame going on in this one little video it's bonkers. No perks, no shotguns in loadouts, no perks.. Skill-based, lone wolf yet team-demanding combat that requires control of maps and powerups/weapons. Halo.

Also, RIP CTF.. on an asymmetric map no less. Just update this game with the weapons/features we have now with H2-quality maps and voila! I'd suggest also updating the movement because it definitely feels sluggish compared to today's standards.

 

[Booshka]

The aim assist and magnetism of all weapons needs to be toned down overall, not just at long range. The CE Pistol had the right amount of magnetism and aim assist, Halo CE also had smaller hitboxes, and better player movement (lateral movement). These factors added up to skill based Pistol fights in CE. You could get shot first, hell even get shot in the back and turnaround and out-shoot the other player with aiming and movement skill. Not so much in Halo 4, hitboxes are huge, there isn't much of a lateral strafe, and the aim assist and magnetism is ridiculous, so DMR fights aren't nearly as skill based.

If you were mediocre or bad in Halo CE, you could still just spam body shots with the Pistol and get a kill every so often, but better players would out-shoot you almost every time by strafing and going for headshots when your shield was down. In Halo 4, it seems like landing head shots is as easy as body shots for a wide swathe of players, it's just too easy. At high levels of gameplay, this turns into who shoots who first for a majority of the fights. Pros would miss all the time in Halo CE, either because of their own fault, or the opponent's strafe and player movement (ducking in and out of cover, crouching, etc). It wasn't stupidly easy to land shots, so there was a lot of room to improve, and a huge skill gap.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Were you ever hit by a DMR while trying to ping him back? The flinch is horrible, the person who hits first will win most of the time ( at great distances)

Very frustrating. Complex says hello. Oh, and I'm invisible too. WTF man.

 

[orznge]

The aim assist and magnetism of all weapons needs to be toned down overall, not just at long range. The CE Pistol had the right amount of magnetism and aim assist, Halo CE also had smaller hitboxes, and better player movement (lateral movement). These factors added up to skill based Pistol fights in CE. You could get shot first, hell even get shot in the back and turnaround and out-shoot the other player with aiming and movement skill. Not so much in Halo 4, hitboxes are huge, there isn't much of a lateral strafe, and the aim assist and magnetism is ridiculous, so DMR fights aren't nearly as skill based.

If you were mediocre or bad in Halo CE, you could still just spam body shots with the Pistol and get a kill every so often, but better players would out-shoot you almost every time by strafing and going for headshots when your shield was down. In Halo 4, it seems like landing head shots is as easy as body shots for a wide swathe of players, it's just too easy. At high levels of gameplay, this turns into who shoots who first for a majority of the fights. Pros would miss all the time in Halo CE, either because of their own fault, or the opponent's strafe and player movement (ducking in and out of cover, crouching, etc). It wasn't stupidly easy to land shots, so there was a lot of room to improve, and a huge skill gap.

I bet you could get someone in this thread to argue seriously that the idea of lateral movement in an arena FPS is antiquated

 

[TimeEffect]

Is it still possible to play Halo CE on PC? Is the community still strong?

 

[User 73706]

Maybe they should release Halo: Arena as an Xbox 420 launch title. Make it the dedicated space for competitive multiplayer, F2P with a barebones weapon sandbox/map set (featuring 5 originals, 5 remakes) and basic Spartan player models with minimal features beyond customization. Throughout the lifespan of the game it can have options patched in or available through paid DLC to allow things like mapmaking, increased Spartan customization, compatability with Halo 5, and so on. The Reclaimer Saga would still contain the campaign and 343's vision of multiplayer and all that.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

The latest issue of Official Xbox Magazine UK says that 343 Industries, maker of last year's Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary (and, of course, this year's all-new Halo 4), has similar plans for Halo 2.

"Following the success of remake Halo Anniversary, 343 Industries has now started development of Halo 2 Anniversary,"

Spoiler

July 8 2012, Kotaku

Source

 

[Tawpgun]

I don't know why you CE purists haven't left the franchise yet. We're never gonna get another Halo game like CE. It dealt with too much physics fuckery (the weapons being naded and flying across the map) the 3 shot pistol is too fast a kill time for Halo and reducing auto aim will increase noob frustration. That stuff was awesome and I miss it. My first Halo was Halo on the PC, and it was SO empowering to know that you and your pistol could take on the world if you had the skill. Halo PC even had honor rules that said good "honorable" players never used Rockets/Fuel Rod or Vehicles. That's because a good player could go into an 8 on 8 BTB match with banshees, scorpions, and hogs everywhere and still come out on top by only using the pistol. I miss that, but its not coming back.

It's a different time now. I'm already beginning to accept Halo will never go back to equal starts and no random bullshit like in 2 and 3.

 

[Booshka]

Spoiler

July 8 2012, Kotaku

Source

I hope they release it as Singleplayer with the MP just being DLC maps and a Classic playlist for Halo 4. That way everyone can rage similarly to how I raged when they did that with Anniversary. If Anniversary would have had CE MP on XBL, I and ten's of thousands of others would be set for about a decade or more, but no, DLC for another shit Halo game.

@Tawpgun, I know it's over, but I still like to argue my point, and put it out there. I don't really give a shit about Halo anymore (I haven't cared since Halo 3 came out), but because Halo CE is one of my favorite games of all time, and does so many things right, I feel the need to discuss it.

 

[Duji]

For those who don't understand what Duji is saying, allow me point you over to a quick search I found on YouTube. SO much metagame going on in this one little video it's bonkers. No perks, no shotguns in loadouts, no perks.. Skill-based, lone wolf yet team-demanding combat that requires control of maps and powerups/weapons. Halo.

Also, RIP CTF.. on an asymmetric map no less. Just update this game with the weapons/features we have now with H2-quality maps and voila! I'd suggest also updating the movement because it definitely feels sluggish compared to today's standards.

Great gameplays. I miss classic CTF.

And kyle, what is your ideal Halo utility weapon? I think most around here would say a 4sk single shot weapon with a 2x scope and no spread/bloom/recoil.

 

[Ghazi]

I hope they release it as Singleplayer with the MP just being DLC maps and a Classic playlist for Halo 4. That way everyone can rage similarly to how I raged when they did that with Anniversary. If Anniversary would have had CE MP on XBL, I and ten's of thousands of others would be set for about a decade or more, but no, DLC for another shit Halo game.

@Tawpgun, I know it's over, but I still like to argue my point, and put it out there. I don't really give a shit about Halo anymore (I haven't cared since Halo 3 came out), but because Halo CE is one of my favorite games of all time, and does so many things right, I feel the need to discuss it.

Yeah that pissed me off to no end. Hell, I would've been fine if they'd just kept classic graphics and settings for the MP maps and stuff and just added online to it. That way, they barely have any work to do and everyone's happy. BUT NOOOOO!

 

[Duji]

.

I like your avvy. Lateralus is my top 1.

 

[orznge]

Yeah that pissed me off to no end. Hell, I would've been fine if they'd just kept classic graphics and settings for the MP maps and stuff and just added online to it. That way, they barely have any work to do and everyone's happy. BUT NOOOOO!

the fact that so many people accepted what was added to Reach's multiplayer as an approximation of CE multiplayer is really telling (with regards to how they experienced and understood CE)

 

[Ghazi]

the fact that so many people accepted what was added to Reach's multiplayer as an approximation of CE multiplayer is really telling (with regards to how they experienced and understood CE)

Yeah, I was honestly surprised that there wasn't a larger backlash to it. It would've been much better for CEA to have been a full package rather than a remade campaign and tacked on DLC.

 

[NobleGundam]

Spoiler

July 8 2012, Kotaku

Source

HNNNNGGG!

 

[Booshka]

the fact that so many people accepted what was added to Reach's multiplayer as an approximation of CE multiplayer is really telling (with regards to how they experienced and understood CE)

Yeah, I was honestly surprised that there wasn't a larger backlash to it. It would've been much better for CEA to have been a full package rather than a remade campaign and tacked on DLC.

There was some fervent rage on the News thread where it was announced, but overall, I think most of HaloGAF are bigger Halo 2 and 3 fans than they are of CE. So no one really cared, and the people that loved CE back in the day, but don't really game anymore or stopped playing console shooters, probably couldn't care less. Halo CE MP is just some mystical relic of the past that won't work in today's gaming landscape, and that fact is exactly what is wrong with the present gaming landscape.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I don't know why you CE purists haven't left the franchise yet. We're never gonna get another Halo game like CE. It dealt with too much physics fuckery (the weapons being naded and flying across the map) the 3 shot pistol is too fast a kill time for Halo and reducing auto aim will increase noob frustration. That stuff was awesome and I miss it. My first Halo was Halo on the PC, and it was SO empowering to know that you and your pistol could take on the world if you had the skill. Halo PC even had honor rules that said good "honorable" players never used Rockets/Fuel Rod or Vehicles. That's because a good player could go into an 8 on 8 BTB match with banshees, scorpions, and hogs everywhere and still come out on top by only using the pistol. I miss that, but its not coming back.

It's a different time now. I'm already beginning to accept Halo will never go back to equal starts and no random bullshit like in 2 and 3.

Give it another several years of what you're experiencing now with the franchise and you'll understand. I can't quit Halo when Halo is the closest thing to feeling Halo lol

There was some fervent rage on the News thread where it was announced, but overall, I think most of HaloGAF are bigger Halo 2 and 3 fans than they are of CE. So no one really cared, and the people that loved CE back in the day, but don't really game anymore or stopped playing console shooters, probably couldn't care less. Halo CE MP is just some mystical relic of the past that won't work in today's gaming landscape, and that fact is exactly what is wrong with the present gaming landscape.

Hopefully this new generation of hardware resets that shitty landscape though. Now's the chance to do it, 343 can't afford to mess this up again...

Spoiler

yes they can because people will buy Halo anyway

.

 

[orznge]

Give it another several years of what you're experiencing now with the franchise and you'll understand. I can't quit Halo when Halo is the closest thing to feeling Halo lol



I wish I could make the bolded my GAF "title" message.

.