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Halo |OT3| Remember Reach?

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
MLG can suck a cock with no party restrictions, UGH. Vanilla/TU Reach is pretty much misery after playing nothing but MLG. With no bloom in 4, it's already got like a 100 point lead on Reach for me.

Yea I'm pretty much done playing MLG unless I have people on to play with. I did the same thing towards the end of Halo 3. Not gonna roll alone unless shit gets fixed.

Also, here's that sniper jamming on me after a YY reload like I mentioned earlier. Totally stole my overkill :(

http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii/b/316284498
 
They've already said there is no bloom like Vanilla Reach, so even if the DMR/Pistol does have some type of reduced bloom, I'll just roll with the BR and deal with its spread and recoil.

On the head. Benefit of the loadouts here. You don't like bloom? Use a BR.
 

feel

Member
They've already said there is no bloom like Vanilla Reach, so even if the DMR/Pistol does have some type of reduced bloom, I'll just roll with the BR and deal with its spread and recoil.
Yeah me too, but it's still gonna suck losing to people spamming their bloom weapons. Sigh. FFS 343...
 
Yeah me too, but it's still gonna suck losing to people spamming their bloom weapons. Sigh. FFS 343...

Something about Killa KC's impressions don't add up with other info we have. I would just blame it on an early build/first time playing the game at an event.

I do not believe that the BR is 5sk, nor the Magnum 6sk. It also would appear that the bloom on the DMR is just visual for the fixed rate of fire, perhaps as a placeholder because the DMR reticle we saw today was the Reach DMR reticle.
 

Domino Theory

Crystal Dynamics
Something about Killa KC's impressions don't add up with other info we have. I would just blame it on an early build/first time playing the game at an event.

I do not believe that the BR is 5sk, nor the Magnum 6sk. It also would appear that the bloom on the DMR is just visual for the fixed rate of fire, perhaps as a placeholder because the DMR reticle we saw today was the Reach DMR reticle.

Link to reticle screen and impressions?
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
On the head. Benefit of the loadouts here. You don't like bloom? Use a BR.

I mean I guess that could work if you're just playing for fun and satisfaction of using certain weapons but as far as competitive play it doesn't seem as though these weapons are "interchangeable". They seem to fill slightly different roles from what we've heard. However, it is still being tweak and balanced so we don't know exactly how they will coexist. Also, the game will evolve over time and strategies on maps will be different than what they are now. That's just the nature of releasing the game to millions of people for them to break it.

So basically we don't know for sure until we play it lol
 
Link to reticle screen and impressions?

The pic:
zB72t.jpg


And Killa KC's impressions:
Before I talk about Halo 4, it's very important for everyone to understand this. The developer bashing that happens in our community has to stop. Every time Halo 4 details are released, the competitive community is there to rip apart every detail and publicly blast 343 about their decisions. If this continues, I would not be surprised if the majority of developers walk away from the competitive audience and consider them a community that simply cannot be satisfied. When you see new information on an upcoming game, think about the positives it could bring to the game first. If you're certain it's something that will simply not work, come together with positive feedback on how to improve it or tweak it. Blasting employee Twitter accounts and bashing the game hurts everyone.

---

I was invited by Frankie to get my hands on Halo 4 last night in NYC. Microsoft was holding a very exclusive party with some football players that were here for the NFL draft and some press (tv shows and magazine mostly it seemed). There were a couple of community guys there as well.

The multiplayer was setup for 4v4 and 8-player FFA. We played 2 Maps back and forth. Wraparound and Warhouse. Both of these Maps have been seen in the various videos and images on the web. Wraparound had a center platform that was connected via bridges and air lifts with a circular exterior. Warhouse was a multi-level structure with a few outer rooms and hallways. Both Maps were fairly small in size and played TS and FFA very well.

We were allowed to select from some different pre-set loadouts, but could not customize them. Loadouts were selected very similar to the way they were in Reach with armor abilities. Select at the start of the game or press X when you die to change your loadout. In the menu, you can edit the loadouts (we were not able to in this build). The loadouts had a mixture of the following things (anything not listed here I was not able to play with):

BR
DMR
AR
Plasma Pistol
Magnum
Frag Grenades
Plasma Grenades
Hologram
Promethean Vision

There were no power weapons on the Maps and I didn't see the weapon drop pods. Can't answer any questions about anything other than what is listed above.

I played with default controls that had Sprint mapped to clicking in the left joystick and crouch bring the B button. It made crouching difficult, but using sprint, abilities, and everything else really easy. I didn’t take any time to flip through the different controls. Sprint felt less clunky than Halo Reach’s sprint, but overall was similar. You do run out of sprint in which felt about the same amount of time you’d run out of sprint in Reach.

I was explicitly told that weapon tuning is still being refined. This is a very very early build of the game and all the weapons are still being tuned. I'm only writing about what I actually played with.

On Twitter, a ton of people asked BR or DMR. I started playing with the BR for a while. There is no bloom and all 3 bullets are very accurate, but there was some small bullet spread. Also, there is some recoil. After shooting a clip at the wall to test the bullet spread, my reticule was fairly higher than where I started shooting. The DMR was single shot with bloom. However, the bloom reset much faster than the DMR in Halo Reach. I didn't have to pace my shots much at all. Both the DMR and BR were 5-shot weapons in this build. At the end of the night, I preferred the DMR. It shot faster than the BR, took the same amount of shots to kill, and I didn't feel like the bloom made me miss shots all that often.

Promethean Vision is the new see-through-walls ability. When you hit it, a wave of heat-mapping goes out across the screen and shows you nearby enemies. It does not show you all the way across the Map, just fairly close proximity. The enemies are also alerted when you do it. It reminded me a bit of Enhanced Vision from Shadowrun, but not as powerful. Offensively, I would ping the vision before entering a room and then charge in knowing which person to pick off first or whether I should not charge in.

Hologram was very similar to the hologram from Halo Reach. Not much to say here.

Magnum also had bloom and was very similar to Halo Reach. It could be shot very fast, but the bloom would make it very inaccurate. It had 8 bullets in the clip and was a 6-shot kill. The Plasma Pistol shoots a little bit slower now when rapidly pressing the trigger, but each shot seemed to do more damage. The homing mechanism on a charged shot seemed to be toned down quite a bit.

Press X to spawn was in the games I played. However, since they were FFA and TS game types, I didn't notice it much. Not sure if that feature will appear in objective game modes or not.

In the end, the game looks and sounds amazing. At its core, it's the Halo everyone knows and loves. Movement felt great and I had a really great time playing it for the short amount of time I had. Hopefully 343 will invite us to a longer test session with more features available where we can provide feedback.
 
I mean I guess that could work if you're just playing for fun and satisfaction of using certain weapons but as far as competitive play it doesn't seem as though these weapons are "interchangeable". They seem to fill slightly different roles from what we've heard. However, it is still being tweak and balanced so we don't know exactly how they will coexist. Also, the game will evolve over time and strategies on maps will be different than what they are now. That's just the nature of releasing the game to millions of people for them to break it.

So basically we don't know for sure until we play it lol

True enough. I'm sure that bloom will be an option we can turn off if we want for customs, or making competitive gametypes, anyway. I imagine they're just talking about strictly the standard "Team Slayer" playlist - which I rarely play anyway. I'd personally like to hear more about Objective, and how all this fits in those gametypes.

In my opinion, it only really makes sense for 343 to demonstrate and talk about a lot of the features that are going to appeal to the masses, which it seems they are doing, versus the die-hard, to the bone, competitive fans - at this point anyway. We'll hear, and see more about the little intricacies when it launches (or during secret beta preview events like NYC).

Remember, they still haven't shown the Covenant's arsenal yet, or even that new "faction" they were hyping up a few weeks ago. There could still be a lot of changes and additions to look for in there.

Who knows? Competitive players may all be using carbines come launch.
 

daedalius

Member
After driving for 8 hours I come in here and there are no new impressions from the playtest and just a bunch of QQ.

Fuckthisshit.jpg
 
Happy Birthday. You're closer to 30 than you are to 20. Enjoy that terrible feeling for the rest of the day.
Bah, I'm closer to 40 than to 30 and I feel great.

I swear to God this thread moves a mile a minute - did I miss anything? I'd like to add that I'm a little hammered from a Thor's day night out so feel free to lie to me.

Yeah me too, but it's still gonna suck losing to people spamming their bloom weapons. Sigh. FFS 343...
I thought that the prevailing theory of Halo 4 bloom was that it communicated when to take the next shot, not how accurate your shot was when spamming, so whats the problem? Did we get confirmation one way or the other?

I've got Trials downloading and Fez pending. Don't let me down HaloGAF! What was the other XBL game Null was raving about a few days back?
Yep. Gatling Gears. I still hold that its the best twin stick shooter since Geometry Wars, although very different in style and pace. Its polished, gorgeous and worth far more sales than it garnered.

Here's why I don't like extraneous shit: it gets in the way of overall good competitive play. I'm one of those people who just likes a stripped down game with not that much shit going on. As such I guess I'll just be left in the dust when it comes to more and more games, since it's all about stupid gimmicky shit that I couldn't care less about.
The one positive of the gimmicky shit is that at least people will be able to start with the primary weapon of their choice (unlocking difficulty withstanding). So hopefully an end to BR vs DMR vs AR arguments. Then again I may just be naive and optimistic.
 
Bah, I'm closer to 40 than to 30 and I feel great.

I swear to God this thread moves a mile a minute - did I miss anything? I'd like to add that I'm a little hammered from a Thor's day night out so feel free to lie to me.


I thought that the prevailing theory of Halo 4 bloom was that it communicated when to take the next shot, not how accurate your shot was when spamming, so whats the problem? Did we get confirmation one way or the other?

The usual. Everyone cried.
 
it seems to me that bloom in 4 is more like it is on the sniper in Reach, where it just tells you when the next time you can fire. that's the only way it adds up to me
 
Yea I'm pretty much done playing MLG unless I have people on to play with. I did the same thing towards the end of Halo 3. Not gonna roll alone unless shit gets fixed.

Also, here's that sniper jamming on me after a YY reload like I mentioned earlier. Totally stole my overkill :(

http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii/b/316284498

Solid reload too not even a fast sketchy one. Games a joke sometimes, I try and remind myself of that but I still get mad at it now and then.
 
If that were the case wouldn't Frankie or David have told us yet?
haven't we been down the road of "well Frankie and David haven't told us otherwise?" I'm just trying not to go to hysterics about this, maybe put a little logic into it. We were told that the DMR has a set rate of fire, weren't we? And Killa KC said the bloom didn't interfere with his ability to shoot quickly. Just connecting the dots as I see them.
 
Just finished watching. It’s nice to listen to people whose opinions are more in line with my own. And while they were trying to be open minded about everything they know so far about Halo4, what I got out of watching the segment is that they are extremely skeptical.

My favorite talking points:

  • I loved Lemon's thoughts on the starting weapon. It has to be capable in all situations, even though it may not be the most ideal in all situations.
  • Nexy likes his skill weapon -- wants to shoot better than other people. (This to me is the very essence of Halo and I couldn’t agree more.)
  • Nexy also mentioned that he thinks that people should have a better chance at surviving if they turn around and fight. I agree. Run away tactics should be discouraged, because it doesn't encourage competition.
  • Bloom -- Most people didn’t like it in Reach. 343 went as far as taking it out of the game. So why is it going back in? Unless bloom as we knew it in Reach is not the same as in Halo4, the decision to include it is mind boggling.
  • Seemed like everyone in the segment agreed that kill times were too slow in Reach. Lemon brought up a good point that players who misuse power weapons aren't punished for their lack of prowess. In Halo1, you miss with the rocket launcher, you’re going to die for blowing your opportunity. In Reach, it takes so long to kill someone with a non-power weapon that a person with a power weapon is not punished for poor execution.
  • Lemon says don't add frivolous bullshit. I 100% agree. That’s all armor abilities are... gimmicks.. They distract or detract from the core of what makes Halo, Halo.
  • If the base movement speed is fast enough, then sprint is purely aesthetic. Look I can run fast! But how does it enhance the game or encourage competition that would otherwise not be in the game? Answer: It doesn’t.
  • Armor abilities need to have a counter consequence. While I agree, I would rather them not even be in the game.
More of my thoughts: I want to be able to shoot better than other players and I want a starting weapon that puts me on even feet as everyone else in the game at any point in the game. That's halo to me. Armor abilities take away from that philosophy. Bloom and slow kill times takes away from a player's ability rather than enhancing it. If I can aim well while shooting fast, I shouldn't have something like bloom telling me that I'm not hitting my target. Slow kill times is, boring for one, and not conducive for competition, something that should be fast paced, especially in a first person shooter. Every time a new halo game comes out, we get further and further away from the core principles of halo. And every time I think developers have learned their lessons from previous games, I find out i'm mistaken.
 
HaloGAF needs to migrate to waypoint for the next 4 hours while im at work. Its the only site i can get on now since the little English halo blog has been blocked under "blogs and dynamic content".
 

Striker

Member
:|

[*][*]Seemed like everyone in the segment agreed that kill times were too slow in Reach. Lemon brought up a good point that players who misuse power weapons aren't punished for their lack of prowess. In Halo1, you miss with the rocket launcher, you’re going to die for blowing your opportunity. In Reach, it takes so long to kill someone with a non-power weapon that a person with a power weapon is not punished for poor execution.
I listened to this part, and yeah, he's not wrong. But the issue here is, in the case of Reach and Halo 3, why shoot in that matter? MELEE THEM. It's so absurdly powerful you have a greater chance to kill them by smacking than actually shooting them with your rifle in a timely fashion. The strength of melee killed Halo's combat as much as the rest of the issues it has had. And MLG addresses this in each iteration they've went through in Halo 3 and Reach. I'm not expecting anything different in H4, although I wish I was wrong.

And while CursedLemon comes off rather arrogant or stubborn in some cases, he is often sharing my own beliefs about most of the game's mechanics. Sprint, weaponry, just general combat. I wished they had just gone with a faster base speed and did away with sprint, but I knew it was coming back in some form so I live(d) to deal with it, unfortunately.
 

TheOddOne

Member
How 343 Is Reinventing Halo
Microsoft's 343 Industries is taking Halo to the next level, while maintaining that almost undefinable feel of what it's like to be the Master Chief.

"Wake up Chief. I need you." With Cortana's first words you feel like you are back to all of those hours of action-packed storytelling that filled the original Halo trilogy. The banter between Master Chief and Cortana as they seek out those attacking their ship just cements it. And then come the Elites and Grunts: your first firefight as Master Chief in years, and you know you are playing Halo.

But Halo 4 is shaping up to provide not just everything people have loved from the series, but even more than what you've experienced in the past. "It feels like Halo. But there are some subtle changes. We changed the HUD and we also added a sense of immersion--you can hear your breath as it sounds inside the helmet," said Frank O'Connor. O'Connor is the franchise director for Halo and has shepherded the series from original developer Bungie to Microsoft's 343 Industries.

Anyone who has been following the videos 343 has been putting out knows they have redone the series' sound, the music, and the graphics, but what you can't see is that it still plays like a Halo game. Running, jumping, shooting the battle rifle or pistol--it all feels very familiar. "It's definitely at a higher fidelity at this point. Our facial animation and motion capture technology are all going to make it look better."

How much did 343 change below the surface? They started with the Reach engine, but took it further. "Some of the core systems are still recognizable to what Bungie engineered, but every system has either been radically overhauled or completely written from the ground up," said O'Connor. "It has a different look--but it looks like a Halo game. If you were a wine connoisseur you would probably describe it as a completely different varietal."

Of course, that balance between improving the features of the game while still keeping that Halo feel has extended beyond the single-player game. The competitive multiplayer game has new modes; levels have new features; and the Spartan trainee players can create, level up, and purchase new armor and abilities. But the biggest change to online play is the Spartan Ops mode.

With this mode, players will engage in a co-op story with other Spartan trainees, not unlike the co-op of Portal 2. The difference with Halo 4 is that this story is episodic, with new missions being released each week. O'Connor said, "It's about the same amount of story as [a traditional] campaign stretched over weeks."


Besides giving players more bang for their buck, the Spartan Ops mode was created for another practical reason. Despite what a glance at the leaderboards seems to tell you, Halo players really don't play online. "Most people actually play campaign and don't play competitive. It's because the competitive landscape is really intimidating for people. So they prefer to play at their own pace," said O'Connor.

343 is hoping that Spartan Ops will get more gamers connecting online. O'Connor said, "It's competitive; [players are] competing for objectives and scores, but they are also cooperating to get the job done and experience the story."

The Spartan Ops story will stretch out for several weeks, but not months, according to O'Connor. And beyond that? "Season one comes free with the game. If we did another season we would be building that from scratch. Maybe that will be DLC; maybe it goes in the next game. We are still tinkering with that."

Speaking to Frank O'Connor, you get the sense they are still tinkering with other aspects of Halo 4, such as getting the feature set and the engine just right. "The Halo process is layering and layering and testing and layering off and on…it's really close to the ship date that you see what the final product looks like. We've gone pass the 'Can we do it?' to 'Can we do it better,' and that's what anyone working on a sequel should always be thinking."

So are there some surprises to come, like those in Halo Anniversary? "We are not supporting 3D TVs or Kinect for Halo 4," said O'Connor. "3D in Halo Anniversary was a benefit we got from the method we used to switch between classic and modern graphics, and we were able to use that area of the frame buffer to put out two sets of data at the same time."

And maybe O'Connor is right. The game may not need the flashy extras. 343 is already giving Halo 4 the largest levels the series has ever seen, the most feature-intense multiplayer yet, and a new online co-op campaign in Spartan Ops--not to mention richer sound and visuals. "We are still pushing more and more of the graphics. We had one guy at the showcase who thought this was the next-gen preview. I wouldn't go that far, but it does look good. There is still more and more to be squeezed out of the box," said O'Connor.

Because Halo 4 is the start of a new trilogy, why didn't they go next-gen with the game? "There are tens of millions of 360s this time around, and if you wait until the next generation you are going to start with a lower install base," said O'Connor. "Secondly, it's a sequel to a bunch of games that existed on one platform, and you want to take advantage of that momentum and reward the people who have already invested in the ecosystem of that console."
 
Most people actually play campaign and don't play competitive. It's because the competitive landscape is really intimidating for people. So they prefer to play at their own pace," said O'Connor.
Is this true? I'm not sure I believe it. Online is the shiz. Everyone's doing it!
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Random thought after re-reading Primordium.

With the whole Geas thing isnt it possible that
Cortana is herself a Geas taken from Halsey's mind?
 
The applications of this controller in a game like Halo... hmmm...
It's another gimmick. Let's hope microsoft doesn't try and introduce a controller with a touchscreen on it. I just see something that will disrupt immersion in a game.

You're going through game with fluid controls, completely absorbed in the game. STOP! Have to use touch screen for a second. GO! Try and get back into game.

It's completely unnecessary just like motion controls.
 
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