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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

Epiphany: Perceived balance issues with Invasion occur because it is a one sided, one round gametype. It would be akin to playing a single round of one flag, except that it gets progressively difficult for the attackers to score the closer they get to base. If this were a multi-rounded gametype (which it looks to be at retail), there would be even less complaints about it than there are about current round-based objective games. Why? Because there is gradation in winning. One team may capture only the ship as elites, while the other may unlock the core. In the single-rounded version, both of those count as a loss. But in a multi-rounded variant, it would be obvious the second team would have won, as they had scored two out of the possible three points, while the first team had only scraped one.

tl;dr it's gun b k
 
Dax01 said:
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Click to expand...

May I present counter evidence?

All taken from my last game played. All stickied. Only Elites were harmed in the making of this gallery.

reach_1111384_Medium.jpg

reach_1111354_Medium.jpg

reach_1111355_Medium.jpg

reach_1111385_Medium.jpg

reach_1111352_Medium.jpg

reach_1111353_Medium.jpg
 
Kapura said:
Epiphany: Perceived balance issues with Invasion occur because it is a one sided, one round gametype. It would be akin to playing a single round of one flag, except that it gets progressively difficult for the attackers to score the closer they get to base. If this were a multi-rounded gametype (which it looks to be at retail), there would be even less complaints about it than there are about current round-based objective games. Why? Because there is gradation in winning. One team may capture only the ship as elites, while the other may unlock the core. In the single-rounded version, both of those count as a loss. But in a multi-rounded variant, it would be obvious the second team would have won, as they had scored two out of the possible three points, while the first team had only scraped one.

tl;dr it's gun b k
Click to expand...
You sir, are amazing!
 
Kapura said:
Epiphany: Perceived balance issues with Invasion occur because it is a one sided, one round gametype. It would be akin to playing a single round of one flag, except that it gets progressively difficult for the attackers to score the closer they get to base. If this were a multi-rounded gametype (which it looks to be at retail), there would be even less complaints about it than there are about current round-based objective games. Why? Because there is gradation in winning. One team may capture only the ship as elites, while the other may unlock the core. In the single-rounded version, both of those count as a loss. But in a multi-rounded variant, it would be obvious the second team would have won, as they had scored two out of the possible three points, while the first team had only scraped one.

tl;dr it's gun b k
Click to expand...

I kinda agree, but it still needs some work. Phase 3 in particular. The Core room is far too easy to defend and the run to the Phantom is far too open.
 
Generic said:
You are speaking to a very casual MP player, who is hoping to get into Reach MP longterm because it seems like you guys have endless fun around here.
Click to expand...
Well I am technically a casual Halo player as well, as I truly despise the small 4v4 objective games, and the majority of my hours in H3 were from Rocket Race. This also illustrates my extreme bias for unique gametypes that may not necessarily detract from traditional mechanics, but recombine them in new and different ways. Interesting to hear your response, thanks for the extra feedback on why you don't like it.

So, you don't typically capture a hill, had new gear drop, and then get killed by enemies who suspiciously left you alone while you captured the hill for them? Because that's what happens to me. On a constant basis.
Click to expand...
The majority of the time I exit the hill as soon as the resupply countdown begins, leaving my random teammates there to use with the timer as bait. This way I can engage the players who are rushing down range from an angle they aren't expecting, usually around the same time they open up on the two or three remaining in the hill waiting for the goodies.

It's not entirely dissimilar (albeit a smaller scale) from the tactics in the open Conquest modes in Battlefield. If you don't clear out or at least check every building in the village when you take the flag, a straggler can certainly jump in your freshly respawned tank and rip your squad off and take the base back with little trouble :lol

Although I agree it's a little more complicated and less easy to manage when the territory is close to enemy spawn zones.
 
Kapura said:
Epiphany: Perceived balance issues with Invasion occur because it is a one sided, one round gametype. It would be akin to playing a single round of one flag, except that it gets progressively difficult for the attackers to score the closer they get to base. If this were a multi-rounded gametype (which it looks to be at retail), there would be even less complaints about it than there are about current round-based objective games. Why? Because there is gradation in winning. One team may capture only the ship as elites, while the other may unlock the core. In the single-rounded version, both of those count as a loss. But in a multi-rounded variant, it would be obvious the second team would have won, as they had scored two out of the possible three points, while the first team had only scraped one.

tl;dr it's gun b k
Click to expand...

Thats.... very true. I guess complaining about which side is more overpowered is now a bit of a moot point. Epiphanys are awesome, I cant believe I didnt realize this, whoops.
 
Generic said:
So, you don't typically capture a hill, had new gear drop, and then get killed by enemies who suspiciously left you alone while you captured the hill for them? Because that's what happens to me. On a constant basis.
Click to expand...

This is my favorite strategy in the world when I'm an Elite. :lol Why do people insist on waiting around? That's like, the number one thing you shouldn't be doing at a hotspot like that.
 
Covy Slayer = win.

Hammer guy runs up to me, and is in striking range.

RB to evade away

He tries to follow, but can't take same EXACT path as me, so is further away

I round the corner of Office Roof, RB to evade away one last time

Throw plasma

He comes around the corner and meets my sticky in the face.

:lol :lol Evade = win
 
Dani said:
May I present counter evidence?

All taken from my last game played. All stickied. Only Elites were harmed in the making of this gallery.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/iamnotevilness/reach_1111384_Medium.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/iamnotevilness/reach_1111354_Medium.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/iamnotevilness/reach_1111355_Medium.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/iamnotevilness/reach_1111385_Medium.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/iamnotevilness/reach_1111352_Medium.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/iamnotevilness/reach_1111353_Medium.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]
Uh, none of those are near or on the head. My pictures clearly show the plasma grenade touching the elite's head like it's not even there.
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=238169]This[/url] picture clearly shows you can stick an Elite on at least one side of their head. This isn't limited to sticky grenades, though, this also happens to me with the grenade launcher.

I've also seen others on here talk about the exact same thing - plasma grenades go right through an Elite's torso.

[QUOTE=Kapura]Epiphany: Perceived balance issues with Invasion occur because it is a one sided, one round gametype. It would be akin to playing a single round of one flag, except that it gets progressively difficult for the attackers to score the closer they get to base. If this were a multi-rounded gametype (which it looks to be at retail), there would be even less complaints about it than there are about current round-based objective games. Why? Because there is gradation in winning. One team may capture only the ship as elites, while the other may unlock the core. In the single-rounded version, both of those count as a loss. But in a multi-rounded variant, it would be obvious the second team would have won, as they had scored two out of the possible three points, while the first team had only scraped one.

tl;dr it's gun b k[/QUOTE]
There are balance issues that fall outside of your epiphany, such as there being too many anti-vehicle weapons and grenade launcher starts.
Click to expand...
 
Dax01 said:
Uh, none of those are near or on the head. My pictures clearly show the plasma grenade touching the elite's head like it's not even there.
This picture clearly shows you can stick an Elite on at least one side of their head. This isn't limited to sticky grenades, though, this also happens to me with the grenade launcher.

I've also seen others on here talk about the exact same thing - plasma grenades go right through an Elite's torso.
Click to expand...
Dax, it's lag. Nothing new to online shooters.
 
Just had a game where I lost 45 to 50. The number 1 guy on the enemy team went 20 kills 11 deaths. He had 13 kills with the fucking hammer, and apparently also had a 10 killing spree with it.

I know it's been said, but sprint + hammer is so fucking broken in the beta :lol
 
Dax01 said:
There are balance issues that fall outside of your epiphany, such as there being too many anti-vehicle weapons and grenade launcher starts.
Click to expand...
This is why there is a beta. To determine balance. It's not like it's going to take herculean effort to change the loadout setup. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that Shishka already has better loadout progression ready for retail.

Shake Appeal said:
Well... yeah. Didn't we know this all along?

Now explain Invasion Slayer, hotshot.
Click to expand...
Yes, but I pointed it out because it's really, really dumb to debate balance on a one sided gametype. And regarding Invasion slayer, shit's hella imba. Don't ship.

Dax01 said:
I never had this kind of problem in Halo 3, and Reach's netcode is far superior. This is happening a lot more than it did in Halo 3, and it's not just me seeing it.
Click to expand...
Perhaps this is due to the fact that in Halo 3, you were too busy pumping butts with the AR to throw plasma grenades? ;). Anecdotal evidence from a single connection doesn't equate a trend.
 
Kapura said:
This is why there is a beta. To determine balance. It's not like it's going to take herculean effort to change the loadout setup. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that Shishka already has better loadout progression ready for retail.
Click to expand...
Um, all I said was there are balance issues that fall outside your epiphany. It seems like you were saying that all balance issues stem from not being able to switch sides. Of course this is why there is a beta. I never said anything to the contrary.

And I just checked my Bnet stats, comparing stickies to plasma grenade kills. Maybe it was just the occasional lag. ;) That, or Bungie has done something different with the sword lunge.
 
Dax01 said:
Um, all I said was there are balance issues that fall outside your epiphany. It seems like you were saying that all balance issues stem from not being able to switch sides.
Click to expand...
He did not say that. He was referring to perceptions of winning and losing, and how those will different on one-sided objective games such as Invasion when the teams each have a turn on offense and defense, especially given the scoring of individual phases in Invasion. And he's right. It was an astute observation about player perceptions of balance.

Beacuse he didn't mention load outs does not mean he was lumping them in to the assesment. It means he wasn't addressing them at all, one way or the other.
Cocopjojo said:
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/CareerStats.aspx?player=GhaleonEB

EDIT: Looks like yours isn't there. You can see where it would be on mine:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/CareerStats.aspx?player=Cocopjojo
Click to expand...
Thanks. Though I'm not seeing it on your page, probably because of the custom IE6 I'm stuck using at work, which displays a very borked version of b.net.

Edit: NM, I see it now.
 
_tetsuo_ said:
Usually don't say things like this but it seems that you aren't as good as you think you are.
Click to expand...

:lol I wish. I dont mind being bad at games, because then its just a matter of time and effort to get better. I'm a fast learner, which is good cause it allows me to bounce back and forth between games like Halo 3, Gears of War, Rainbow Six and COD and quickly acclimate or reacclimate myself with the different gameplay balance and mechanics. I'll never be the absolute best at a game, or even in the top 5-10%, simply because I play too many games to ever master one, but skill isnt really a concern.

But I've played 150 games of Reach, and I'm no better today than I was the first time I played the game. I bounce back and forth between 1600 games and 1300 games, +9 and -9 KD ratios, four-shot kills and 25-shot deaths. There's no consistency to the shooting mechanics, I never know when I'm about to get a kill or get gunned down. In Halo 3, I could tell exactly when I was about to die or about to get a kill, this time its a surprise everytime.

If skill was the issue, I would still find the kills I do get satisfying. I don't. Even when I go 1600+, +10 or more K/D and go on killing sprees. There is nothing satisfying about killing an opponent in Halo: Reach, because I never feel like they came as a result of my skill, so much as sunspots, the alignment of the planets, black magic, or sheer random chance. And to me, that is the definition of a bad game.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Does bungie.net display your Arena Divison? I got my 5th Daily Rating yesterday but can't find the Division I'm parked in.
Click to expand...

I have my 5 days, got the message and everything, but still isn't showing either.
 
Why even worry about Arena ranking, half of GAF got into Onyx, so you know the player pool isn't even big enough to properly place people anyways.

Oh, I kept getting randomly booted out of Invasion matches last night, happened like 3 times, but didn't happen a single time in GB...?
 
Ramirez said:
Why even worry about Arena ranking, half of GAF got into Onyx, so you know the player pool isn't even big enough to properly place people anyways.

Oh, I kept getting randomly booted out of Invasion matches last night, happened like 3 times, but didn't happen a single time in GB...?
Click to expand...

Apparently some people using ODST on a original Xbox are having that problem. I guess you would have been in the F+F though?
 
Man, people get angry when I'm in the lift room on Sword Base with a shotgun. I killed all three of you last time. Why did you think respawning and running back up would work? But thanks for wasting all your grenades on the wall in front of me.
 
Mr. Sam said:
Man, people get angry when I'm in the lift room on Sword Base with a shotgun. I killed all three of you last time. Why did you think respawning and running back up would work? But thanks for wasting all your grenades on the wall in front of me.
Click to expand...

:lol

When people are in that room I HAVE to clear them out, I dont know what it is :lol

Dani, out of interest what playlist are you playing?
 
One thing about one sided-gametypes. While having you play both attack and defend technically makes it balanced, there is still the matter of making it fun, and I believe they should still strive to make attack and defense as close to even as possible.

I've been playing some Lead and Gold for a while, and it has something similar. One sided objective types, but a match consists of you playing both sides. The thing is defending is insanely easy, usually resulting in a brutal unfun spawn camp. Then you switch sides and get spawn camped yourself. Yes it's technically balanced, but it's not fun.

So while Invasion doesn't have to be perfect, it's definitely not off the hook just because you play both Spartans and Elites in a round.
 
BladedExpert said:
I get days like that too. I get other days where I couldn't hit the side of a bus at 4 paces... I do not enjoy those days so much.
Click to expand...

Yeah. This game is gonna turn me schizophrenic. The lack of consistency has crossed the line from mildly amusing to infuriating.

Luckily, my early copy of Alan Wake arrived today, so I can distract myself from the recurring temptation to play the next Halo for at least 10 hours or so.
 
So I lamented the melee system in the Beta since day 1. Then you fine folks started telling me to double melee because the glitch lets you do a second melee quickly. I present to you my redemption at losing all of those melee battles for the past week in the beta:

Our team had 1 random quit so we were down early on. We claw our way back and the other team is now up 49 to 48:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1103647

If someone could kindly render the clip it would be greatly appreciated. :D

Edit: Thanks for rendering Pennybags. I'll buy some minutes to render next time I log on to Halo 3.
 
FourDoor said:
So I lamented the melee system in the Beta since day 1. Then you fine folks started telling me to double melee because the glitch lets you do a second melee quickly. I present to you my redemption at losing all of those melee battles for the past week in the beta:

Our team had 1 random quit so we were down early on. We claw our way back and the other team is now up 49 to 48:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1103647

If someone could kindly render the clip it would be greatly appreciated. :D
Click to expand...

I'll do it for ya.

Edit: Done.
 
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