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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

Kuroyume said:
I don't care. It is what it is...
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What it is, is an armor ability that allows for EMP at point blank. Which at that point you may as well board.

What is being discussed is spawning with ranged EMP weapons and people bitching that the grenade launcher needs to be removed as a spawn weapon.
 
Alienshogun said:
Fantastic logical reply! I can see why NEOgaf posters have the reputation they do.
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Are you any different though? We are the same, we both know jack shit when it comes to the point you're trying to make.

Both sides should spawn with EMP.... that's balance... what? Just because they both have a secondary effect in common doesn't make it balanced if both teams spawn with their variant. The Focus Rifle has stun damage, should the Spartans now have a weapon with stun damage for the sake of balance?
 
CircularLogicMascot.JPG
 
Hydranockz said:
Are you any different though? We are the same, we both know jack shit when it comes to the point you're trying to make.

Both sides should spawn with EMP.... that's balance... what?
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How is it not and how do we not know jack? That's currently the way it works. The grenade launcher is an EMP, as is the pistol. At the point of the game when the grenade launcher comes into play vehicles become a dominant part of invasion.

This was obviously the idea when they put the grenade launcher in as a loadout. It's the reason it has an EMP function.
 
EazyB said:
I think you might be onto something here:

The grenades are overpowered because Bungie's testing how overpowered they are.

The gunplay is loose and inconsistent because Bungie's testing how poor the gunplay is.

This Beta is supposed to be mediocre. Bungie's testing how mediocre the game is.


Thanks for putting my mind at ease.
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:lol

I'm dying here...
 
GhaleonEB said:
Do me a personal favor guys and stop quoting him, if you know what I mean. He'll know when you're responding to him.
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This.

If anyone fancies some games when Genny Defence kicks on, let me know!
 
Dax01 said:
Ghal, are you home for Generator Defense? I guess it's not as important as trying out Invasion for the first time.
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I'm not, unfortunately. I've got an afternoon meeting and am doing some errands and dinner in town, so I won't be online until the kids are in bed.
Spasm said:
Logic: GL Loadouts turn any and every vehicle into a papier-mâché coffin. A question to ask yourself; Does the PP loadout have the same affect?
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Expected Response: An EMP is an EMP, all EMPs are the same.
 
Logic: GL Loadouts turn any and every vehicle into a papier-mâché coffin. A question to ask yourself; Does the PP loadout have the same affect?
 
Has it been posted/known that you can melee through the glass windows in SwordBase?

I ran into a game last night where a guy was trying to lure my teammate to the window and he meleed him through the window. So my teammate double meleed him back through the window. I thought it was pretty funny.
 
Dax01 said:
I'm assuming that, because Coco is online, Generator Defense will be up any moment.

Now I play the waiting game.
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Haha, nope, sorry. Online for other reasons. :)
 
Heres the problem with the "both sides should get an EMP" argument:

There wasn't a EMP for humans in Halo 3 and it wasn't a problem. Humans have big ass rockets and lasers and fucking everything to take out a vehicle.

Now we are adding one more into the mix while nerfing the vehicles.

Honestly, the Grenade Launcher should not have an emp. Why? Because of the wealth of anti vehicle weapons already available to spartans in the game (especially invasion)

And besides, all this bickering is taking the focus away from the original problem. Vehicles are too fragile and at this point in the beta, certain default weapons are way too effective at locking down vehicles and rendering them useless or extremely temporary.

It is quite possible that the problem is emphasized by the map itself. Vehicles don't see much play except for the last stage. And at this stage, the environment is very cluttered and not vehicle friendly.

Given the current state of weapons, I would speculate that Bungie have tried taking vehicles into a different direction than halo 3:

Deadly at range, extremely fragile in tight spaces.

Perhaps this change will be made more clear in the retail where there is a possibility of much more vehicle focused game-types and maps.
 
FourDoor said:
Has it been posted/known that you can melee through the glass windows in SwordBase?

I ran into a game last night where a guy was trying to lure my teammate to the window and he meleed him through the window. So my teammate double meleed him back through the window. I thought it was pretty funny.
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I've done that, pretty funny the first time.
 
Spasm said:
Logic: GL Loadouts turn any and every vehicle into a papier-mâché coffin. A question to ask yourself; Does the PP loadout have the same affect?
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This.

As I outlined in the previous page, the GL can be tricky to use but at medium range, the GL makes taking out vehicles far easier than the PP.
 
Spasm said:
Logic: GL Loadouts turn any and every vehicle into a papier-mâché coffin. A question to ask yourself; Does the PP loadout have the same affect?
Click to expand...

Like I said before, I think the damage needs to be altered, and/or the vehicle damage model needs to be changed. The EMP function should remain though. There is a reason the grenade launcher becomes available when it does in invasion. It's clearly bungies intent to give equal EMP ability to both sides when vehicles enter the mix.

I've said that over and over again. Hell, for all we know the grenades for the grenade launcher fall in line with the grenade "nerf" that's coming in launch.
 
A friend of mine is playing the Beta as a Silver member right now. He uses ODST to start it. I on the otherhand used a code to download it and cannot play as a Silver member right now. Can you use the free weekend only when playing via ODST?
 
Lead Based Paint said:
Heres the problem with the "both sides should get an EMP" argument:

There wasn't a EMP for humans in Halo 3 and it wasn't a problem. Humans have big ass rockets and lasers and fucking everything to take out a vehicle.

Now we are adding one more into the mix while nerfing the vehicles.

Honestly, the Grenade Launcher should not have an emp. Why? Because of the wealth of anti vehicle weapons already available to spartans in the game (especially invasion)

And besides, all this bickering is taking the focus away from the original problem. Vehicles are too fragile and at this point in the beta, certain default weapons are way too effective at locking down vehicles and rendering them useless or extremely temporary.

It is quite possible that the problem is emphasized by the map itself. Vehicles don't see much play except for the last stage. And at this stage, the environment is very cluttered and not vehicle friendly.


Given the current state of weapons, I would speculate that Bungie have tried taking vehicles into a different direction than halo 3:

Deadly at range, extremely fragile in tight spaces.

Perhaps this change will be made more clear in the retail where there is a possibility of much more vehicle focused game-types and maps.
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Yeah, I can see your point, but they also introduced the plasma launcher in reach, giving elites an anti vehicle weapon as well. Also there is nothing stopping elites from camping the power weapons and using them against the spartans.

Like I said, bungie made the GL a loadout at that specific time in invasion for a reason. Vehicles are everywhere right off the bat, and without the GL at spawn only the elites can disable the vehicles right away.

I agree, and HAVE been agreeing though that vehicles should be stronger, and the grenade launcher damage should be looked into though, people just ignore that and focus on the parts they don't like to hear.
 
Has it been established whether the emblem changes are intentional or not? For example:

My Halo 3 emblem used to be this:

emblem.ashx


It's impossible to create in Reach, because the part of the emblem that gets toggled off is the opposite part of the vortex. Oddly, though, it appears on bnet correctly, which I only jsut noticed and I guess proves it's a bug :D

EDIT: There's also a bug on bnet where if you set your H3 or ODST emblem as your avatar, it displays the secondary part of the emblem even if it's toggled off. It didn't used to do this.
 
Hydranockz said:
Protip4Life: Pissing people off is not a way for ones views to be taken seriously.

Is NT1 up yet? If so, impressions?
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FYI, I didn't start the asshole crap. Anyone who has been following the conversation can see that.
 
GhaleonEB said:
So, they should have put this stuff through a public beta before shipping the public beta.

Good grief, Eazy.
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Just giving the game a hard time. For all those saying everything is perfect about the beta and they don't want anything changed.
That and I'd almost have a 40 game winning streak in Grab Bag if it weren't for that broken gametype.

Still, I don't really see why or how they'd accurately gauge how unbalanced a gametype is. Seems to me it'd be more valuable to try to create the most balanced gametype possible and continue tweaking it (with different loadouts) to see if the winning % per side (in games at both low true skill and high skill) even out. Hopefully they will update it as they did the some other gametypes but right now it's a lopsided
on purpose and without attempt to balance
gametype that only further adds more grief to the things broken about the beta (those that are "Fixed for Fall" and otherwise).
 
EazyB said:
Just giving the game a hard time. For all those saying everything is perfect about the beta and they don't want anything changed.
That and I'd almost have a 40 game winning streak in Grab Bag if it weren't for that broken gametype.

Still, I don't really see why or how they'd accurately gauge how unbalanced a gametype is. Seems to me it'd be more valuable to try to create the most balanced gametype possible and continue tweaking it (with different loadouts) to see if the winning % per side (in games at both low true skill and high skill) even out. Hopefully they will update it as they did the some other gametypes but right now it's a lopsided
on purpose and without attempt to balance
gametype that only further adds more grief to the things broken about the beta (those that are "Fixed for Fall" and otherwise).
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Sure, isn't that how they roll? Break everything first, then nerf it. Wasn't that the view expressed in that article on changing the time between sniper shots in Halo 3?
 
Does anyone else actually like the fact Elites are to be feared now? In Halo 3 they were just Spartans in Elites clothing. Of course it means some hefty balancing when it comes to gameplay but I am sure Bungie will manage that in time.

Show me Forge and Firefight dammit! :lol
 
Lead Based Paint said:
I think Bungie's data on PvP between Spartans and Elites is more important that your win streak. Just sayin.
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Give me a reason creating a gametype that is known to be unbalanced and gauging how unbalanced it is more valuable than attempting to create a SvE gametype that is supposed to balanced and testing that theory.

If their goal is to create a gametype in the final game where SvE can be a balanced I figure it'd be most valuable to refine a hypothetically balanced gametype and test it to see if the win percentages are near 50%. Or do you really think seeing that elites win 75% of the time by 20 point margin is a better route to reach that same goal?

Seems stupid to try the later no doubt. My only explanation is that they thought it was close to being balanced and wanted to see if their assumption was correct. A little less shocking considering how some gametype elements found their way into the beta.
 
Raide said:
Does anyone else actually like the fact Elites are to be feared now? In Halo 3 they were just Spartans in Elites clothing. Of course it means some hefty balancing when it comes to gameplay but I am sure Bungie will manage that in time.

Show me Forge and Firefight dammit! :lol
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Honestly I love the feeling of trying to take out an elite rush, it brings back those really strong CE memories of trying to finish off elites in single player of CE, and having to do something special to pull off that final headshot that wins the battle. When I have a reliable buddy to spawn on (Co-op style) it gives me some incredible experiences.

And honestly, outside of the vehicles and their counter measures, I think the team vs. team balance is pretty good in Invasion.
 
EazyB said:
Give me a reason creating a gametype that is known to be unbalanced and gauging how unbalanced it is more valuable than attempting to create a SvE gametype that is supposed to balanced and testing that theory.
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The more variables you have to test, the harder it is to analyze the results.

Couple that with what we know about the kind of data Bungie can pull from these games. Not just who is winning, and with what weapons and by what margins. They can track distance between players killed - who killed who with what and how far away they were. You can start to ask questions like, are Elites dominating the close game, but the Spartans are holding their own at range? Using what and to what degree? With that established as a baseline, start to modify the game type by re-introducing other variables, such as certain load outs and armor abilities and evaluating how that impacts the balance.

Throw more variables such as load outs into the mix at the outset and it gets harder to peel back.

Pure speculation, as is the speculation about the purpose of the gametype. But there's ample reason to have a stripped-down gametype for test and then build it outward from there. I'd wager is a standard iteration methodology, starting spare and adding variables in a controlled manner.
 
Shake Appeal said:
Wouldn't make my day and didn't shock. Eazy trolling the beta is about as shocking as soldat defending it.
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He's not trolling it though, he brings up valid complaints in everyone of his posts.
 
GhaleonEB said:
The more variables you have to test, the harder it is to analyze the results.

Couple that with what we know about the kind of data Bungie can pull from these games. Not just who is winning, and with what weapons and by what margins. They can track distance between players killed - who killed who with what and how far away they were. You can start to ask questions like, are Elites dominating the close game, but the Spartans are holding their own at range? Using what and to what degree? With that established as a baseline, start to modify the game type by re-introducing other variables, such as certain load outs and armor abilities and evaluating how that impacts the balance.

Throw more variables such as load outs into the mix at the outset and it gets harder to peel back.

Pure speculation, as is the speculation about the purpose of the gametype. But there's ample reason to have a stripped-down gametype for test and then build it outward from there. I'd wager is a standard iteration methodology, starting spare and adding variables in a controlled manner.
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That's a fine way to go about it if they plan on rigorously iterating on the gametype but there's not enough time in the beta to have players both get accustomed to strategies with the most recent gametype configuration and tweak that gametype once this has happened and Bungie's gathered the appropriate data.

Personally, I think that approach, even given more time, is still less ideal than offering the most theoretically balanced gametype and making tweaks from there. You make a good point about having too many variables but I fear it's much too difficult to predict what the addition of just a single variable will have on the outcome of the matches. Not only that but from a user perspective, it's a lot less fun participating in your proposed plan.


On a slightly different note, another suggestion for the veto system: As I proposed earlier, the gametypes should be in random order but SvE, if it's on there at all, is always the default gametype (probably because they want more people to play it) so it's weighted pretty heavily. Another suggestion that SvE and Invasion showed me, the pre-game lobby shouldn't show what team you're on (red vs blue or spartan vs elite) until after the votes have been counted. Right now if you're on red team (elite) in SvE you're probably going to stick with the default vote because you know the other team is screwed, if neither team knew which side they'd be on going into a vote they'd be less inclined to vote for unbalanced gametypes.

Shake Appeal said:
Wouldn't make my day and didn't shock. Eazy trolling the beta is about as shocking as soldat defending it.
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Have you gave any thought about writing a "Introductory Guide to HaloGAF Posting." I'm sure I'm not the only one that could benefit from some pro tips and I can't think of a finer chap to construct it.
 
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