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HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.
- Thread starter User 73706
- Start date
Isn't Colossus in/on the gas mine on Threshold?
Yeah, but Frankie was implying that there would be a setting change for a map that is not traditionally associated with water.
Fascinating (seriously I love this stuff).
So I guess that shoots down slip space. Though if interplanetary travel were to be a thing, are there any current real world ideas that propose a practical solution? Apparently NASA has been working on the idea of a warp drive. That was just from a quick google search though. I have no idea if there have been any other "advancements" in this area.
As for hard light there's not much I can say. Solar sails aren't really the same thing but they do work off of using light somehow if I'm not mistaken. There was also this from a while back but that doesn't necessarily point to anything as massive as bridges made of light. The whole idea of hard light works works off of "slowing" light down and condensing it. That is putting it extremely simply obviously.
The main reason the Spartans were taken as children was because their bodies would more easily adapt to the augmentations if I recall correctly which is why they spent all of their time training their bodies until they were about to hit puberty. There was a bit about "molding" their minds more easily but I think the physicality was the majority of it.
The UNSC's actions against the outer colonies really don't make much sense though. Even when you take the Saturday morning cartoon villains that are ONI it is pretty out there. As you said it would've made more sense to allow them to separate. Even with FTL communication and travel it isn't really practical.
Being 500 years into the future helps as far as all the tech is concerned so it never crossed into unbelievable for me. Some of the political stuff though... nope.
lol
Ah... hm... I guess it could be a trick of the angle too.
The UNSC has the ability to circumvent the laws of thermodynamics. I have to ask, how come they almost lost the frigging war?
As per Fall of Reach, the Autumn's fusion reactor magically cooled itself as the more power it generated. http://www.halopedia.org/Fusion_drive#Development_history
You know what? I'm going to pretend that's just Nylund's nonsense and not canon, things work much better without self-cooling fusion reactors. Though that might explain how come the UNSC has stealth ships.. (detection is space is actually pretty easy. The space shuttle's main engines can be detected from Pluto's orbit, ignoring the lightspeed delay).
Reading about stuff, pretty much every issue i have with Halo comes from Nylund's books. Everything else makes much more sense.
As per Fall of Reach, the Autumn's fusion reactor magically cooled itself as the more power it generated. http://www.halopedia.org/Fusion_drive#Development_history
You know what? I'm going to pretend that's just Nylund's nonsense and not canon, things work much better without self-cooling fusion reactors. Though that might explain how come the UNSC has stealth ships.. (detection is space is actually pretty easy. The space shuttle's main engines can be detected from Pluto's orbit, ignoring the lightspeed delay).
Reading about stuff, pretty much every issue i have with Halo comes from Nylund's books. Everything else makes much more sense.
I know that ain't it bit extreme though? What would a gas mine do with a waterfall and soggy rocks
I'm going to assume that in the Halo universe, the laws of thermodynamics don't apply.
That would make things interesting
Melty Lockout.
Why are we arguing about the science of the 26th century? We went from horse-drawn carriages to the moon in less than a century. It's not implausible to think that the "laws" we hold as immutable will change, just like Newton's "laws".
Internal consistency is really the only thing that makes sense to complain about in a sci-fi setting. Everything else is just gravy to make the story flow.
Internal consistency is really the only thing that makes sense to complain about in a sci-fi setting. Everything else is just gravy to make the story flow.
Alcubierre drive does not work. The mathematics work, but the reality is that we have no way of making one, much less to make it work even if we could somehow harness negative/exotic matter required for one. The issue boils down to causality once again. Unless of course causality doesn't work or isn't required, but all our knowledge about physics is based on the assumption that cause happens first...
I won't go into STL interstellar travel now. http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/slowerlight.php Read that if you're interested.
FTL is the basis of all space opera really... and honestly that's not a bad thing. It has never been an issue for me, though unclear limitations can bother me (can FTL detected? How fast? Special requirements like presence of a gravity well or lack of it?, etc).
Light does exert pressure but a minuscule amount, you need some 300 megawatts per one newton of thrust. But that is not the same thing as the solid light theory i noted earlier but can't find anywhere again for some reason.
The hardlight in Haloverse is more like typical force fields in fiction. Frankly i like calling it hardlight better than calling them force fields.
As for slowing down light, it has do with the speed of light in different materials. The speed of light in vacuum is 299 792 458 m/s... but in air or glass or other stuff it is slower. And once it exits those, it moves at the speed it can move within the stuff it travels in.
No comment on those photon-molecule thingies. Looks awesome, but no idea what the heck it means really.
Oh and sometimes fiction presents force fields as molecular-binding-force generators, basically you get molecules, like air-molecules to bond together and form... well, usually whatever you want. Perhaps Halo's hardlight is something like that? Not that the technobabble matters as much as the effect itself and what it causes.
Yup, didn't think of that really. Apparently the research ended up being useful as the modern Spartans don't need to be children to accept the bio-chemical-augs.
In any case, Halo's fiction itself portrays the Spartan's as a questionable endeavor really. They never turned the war around really, rather it was the string of events that started with the Fall of Reach. That a Spartan played a big part with those events... well, i don't think he was needed really. Though fighting against the Flood without energy shielding is problematic...
But as i noted, we don't know too much about that time period, 343i should get some competent writer to flesh out that period, explain it.
I'd suggest getting Timothy Zahn to write that stuff, he is excellent at fixing things, and considering causes and effects.
Just because you ignore or bend something for the sake of a story doesn't mean you should throw out everything.I'm going to assume that in the Halo universe, the laws of thermodynamics don't apply.
That would make things interesting
Because if you do, you lack limits, and limitations make much better stories than lacking those limits.
This is a common misconception.
There is such thing as a correspondence principle, a new theory must give the same answers as the old one.
Newton's laws are true and hold true until extreme circumstances (such as traveling at significant percentage of lightspeed), but they are good enough for everyday things.
When they break down, we start utilizing Einstein's theories, which explain the Newton's laws as well, give the same answers.
Any new theory there will be MUST give the same answers as Einsteins theories. Einstein's theories say traveling faster than light is not possible, thus any new theory will also say that.
Those "laws" have never changed (except perhaps when the universe was still forming?), only our understanding about them.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_ht...e_Have_My_Way"--Correspondence_Principle
A very good page about this stuff.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I love Halo lore, but Who the hell cares if their science isnt exactly up to your anal standards.
So like an oasis? A really... really big oasis... huh...
I'd love a really tropical vacation looking map
Yes please.
Maybe the workers just had it installed for a change of scenery and a bathhouse.I know that ain't it bit extreme though? What would a gas mine do with a waterfall and soggy rocks
Also, is that Asuka as your new avatar?
User 73706
Banned
In the water, duh. They feign death but that's really when they get their poops out.
You obviously because you bother commenting?
And i've noted that most issues with Halo's science part (it is after all science fiction. Unless you think like me and think space opera (which Halo is as well) should be separated as genre from scifi) can be solved with better explanations and retconning the worst stuff away (like the ridiculously powerful engines and self-cooling fusion reactors. Just say the UNSC has excellent heat radiator tech, though that still doesn't explains stealth ships).
Some stuff can't be really adequately explained realistically, but they could get better handwaves.
Mass Effect's lore has a lot of holes but overall it is much better held together than Halo's. Its holes don't stop me from enjoying it (the third game is another matter), just like they don't with Halo.
An issue with the issues Halo has is that as long as they go unaddressed, the chance of someone basing something even more idiotic on them gets bigger. How would you feel if the UNSC built a Death Star with perfect stealth, in other words a weapon that truly ends all wars?
Halo's most wonderful thing is the feeling, and the relatively extensive world is a good aspect as well.
I always thought those were unused grenades that dropped when a Spartan died.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I wouldnt care because its a damn videogame. we already Have the Infinity so there is that. it doesnt stop me from enjoying the game anymore than Retconning The Fall of Reach does.
Is that why they won't make swimming animation, because physics are actually the poop.
That actually sounds like something that should be in the lore.
I take a holistic view on the franchise. Everything affects everything. The feel of the whole matters quite a bit. And overall, it is good. Just fix a bunch of issues that are easy to fix with a couple of sentences and saying, "yes, we are retconning". EDIT i've followed Halo EU since the beginning, so it is practically as big thing as the games themselves for me.
And the Infinity is nowhere near a Death Star, yet alone stealth-DS.
I do have a couple of issues with the Infinity, but both are about visual things: The ship does not look cool, and the MACs firing effect looks like a particle beam or laser, not a MAC round.
EDIT actually, what i'm asking is to strengthen the internal consistency by an order of magnitude, drop the odd elements and establish strict guidelines for the future. It is not going to win any realism awards ever... but it might be much more consistent at very least.
Zeouterlimits
Member
They never stop. That is their curse.
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
Curse? What do you think powers the suit hmm?
Other than possibly the research facility they were automated and had sentinels. Sentinels probably wouldn't complain about scenery and lack of bathhouse services.
And yes it is Asuka.
Orochinagis
Member
is this the weird side of lore discussion?
Eh? Asking if the Chief can be considered a superhero? Ain't his a general Halo thread?
User 73706
Banned
That's why 343 tried keeping you away from them. The Resupply perk is really for the sickos. God help you if you pair it with Explosives.
A superhero is a semantic umbrella and you can open it as wide as you like. Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China is a superhero - he has a special power and is a good guy. But he's not built to be one on purpose in the more focused sense of the word.
Orochinagis
Member
Hmm. Never thought of it that way. Never cared much for superheroes, not even as a child. And now they feel so American thing... It is as if they embody many American ideals. And i've always felt they are more specific.
Though thinking about this reminds me of someone somewhere suggesting that Paul Atreides was a superhero...
But i started wondering about the Chief specifically because i feel he has a bunch of similarities with typical superheroes. Well, typical as i've usually defined a superhero.
At very least i'd interpret him, and the Spartans in general, at least the earlier ones, to be considered superheroes in Haloverse.
Gotta make note that superheroes and their definitions and such make an interesting discussion point. Too bad my friends are not really into such discussions.
Oh, interesting. Watching it ASAP.
And about Stan Lee. I remember asking my friend "Who?" when watched Avengers (this was a few months ago) when he mentioned that "that guy was Stan Lee".
EDIT Stan Lee mentions that an iconic character should be unique. One of my friends thinks that other Spartans reduce the Chief's uniqueness. A view point i can see. I wonder if Halo developers ever worried about such?
Orochinagis
Member
Their misticism is kinda lost new with 343i new view of the spartans for me.
This was before Halo 4 actually. It was about Reach then.
But yes, the mystery is gone really. The original Reach intro did make the new Spartans we saw feel mysterious but somehow the final intro didn't create such a feel.
On one hand the new Spartans are a logical thing considering the success of the programs despite various issues and questionable efficiency and decisions. On the other hand, they don't feel the same anymore, out of universe. Not sure how to feel about that.
Did the Halo's piece in Nightfall actually crash on a planet?
If it is a piece of the original (i mean, the second 04 is next to the Ark with no planets in sight..), it probably crashed on a planet on the system (this would require it to have been blow off so fast it escaped Threshold's gravity, probably not impossible given the size of the Autumn's explosion) and the colonist came later.
Slipspace engine. Redundant and malfunctioning safety system. Will type up later. And the slipspace event had other ramifications...
That sounds... well, like a horror story really. I mean, the Flood and all...
You know, it was pretty cool scene in that one Forerunner trilogy book where a Halo chops off the damaged parts and jumps to slipspace. I remember that scene very vividly.
EDIT Hey, the Halos can remove damaged parts, and some of the Halos were originally bigger. So... can the Halos be combined to form a bigger ring?
EDIT and this remind me, one thing i liked very much about Halo 4 were the terminals (Waypoint requirement aside). That scene where the ancient humans and the Forerunners fight especially. Very strong image, very space opera. Reminded me of Star Wars. Kind of old school scifi thing.
NobleGundam
Banned
Will we ever see Jorge again in the comics?
Pretty sure that Reach slipspace, uh, explosion really wasn't a proper transition. The Portal between the Ark and Earth failed and thus split the Dawn in two, but it did work.
Or was the slipspace bomb basically a transition with nothing but "enter" command? The slipspace generator just taking everything within about 10km of itself with it to slipspace and that's it? Doesn't that mean the thing could be activated again?
A final hope doesn't have the same allure when a whole military branch is dedicated to them.
Sure it's logical to have more but I'd rather have kept it to be a few left. Have them left over as relics of a sort for a lack of a better term an example of what had to be done.
Trying to decide between my sense of logic ruling and feeling that fewer Spartans feeling special feeling better than sense of logic.
Of course one could have both: Say there are more in-universe but focus only on very few at most in the games (the Chief, Locke, perhaps someone else, as long as it ain't Palmer).
squidhands
Member
interesting to make the Kurt Russel comparison. Soldier is a very underrated action sci-if movie; very much of how I would have pictured John's upbringing by the military.
Puhlease Flood and stuff. Scott would do a mean flood me thinks.
Poodlestrike
Banned
In terms of science fiction hardness, Halo actually rates pretty well; probably a 3 on the scale. Yes, they take numerous liberties with reality, but those are always attempted be couched in some sort of physical law (barring occasional messups stuff like the Autumn's thermodynamics breaking fusion core), whether real or fictional. Compared to something like Star Trek, it's actually fairly hard. The one persistent exception would be the lack of major societal change, but that can be chalked up to it being more military sci-fi than anything else, and those settings kind of require a familiar reference frame.
And besides. Sociology's not a "real" science anyway
And besides. Sociology's not a "real" science anyway
;{P
I have never agreed with TV Tropes scale even though i'm a heavy user (reader) of the site. It isn't accurate enough, a lot of gets lumped under 3 even though there's a ridiculous variance within that group.
The problem with Physics Plus category it often includes stuff that should be 2 or even 1 but looks visually realistic or such. Perhaps the thing just doesn't have enough oversight and discussion... Of course, this depends on personal definitions too.
And then there's the nebulous realm what is plausible and what is possible.
Halo's high performance (torch) fusion drives are not really impossible, but they are not really plausible either.
EDIT i'll grant you Halo's better than Star Trek when it comes this, much better. Which is really a 1 IMO, not two as TV tropes thinks.
People don't like Soldier? It was lacking in the whole character development front but I don't think it's that bad. It's also got the whole blade runner references too that's cool.
Logic ruling doesn't work to well because as you mentioned they don't do the most logical thing with their technology. But on the other hand anything is better than Palmer. Maybe some head hunters or something like that.
Ah but if you say, let us know, like has been done already, that there are other Spartans, but don't actually show them in the games or make a big deal about them but concentrate on the Chief and Locke (with preferred focus on the latter), we can keep the myth and the logic. Partially at least.
EDIT speaking of the Headhunters, what happened to the S-III Gamma Company? I really want to know that. That's one big mystery that's interesting. Hopefully they didn't meet an inglorious death like that one Spartan team...
Orochinagis
Member
RIP Black team, killed offscreen.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Gamma got disbanded; some members joined the new Spartan branch of the UNSC, and the others retired to civilian life.
Partially but not entirely kinda hard to block out a whole new branch and shiny new flagship plot wise. Unless it gets scuttled like the Graf Spee maybe but can't see that happening.
As for gamma company saber and some others of them are still alive as far as I'm aware.