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Hardware Unboxed: Frame Generation doesn't fix bad performance
- Thread starter MMaRsu
- Start date
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
MrRibeye
Member
Based on the thread title I thought this was posted by BennyBlanco
PauloRoberto
Member
It's not unlike AI when it's used to optimize bad processes... the result will be WAAAY less the the expected result.
Thebonehead
Gold Member
Great thr......
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
I thing FG is pretty useful. Clickbait videos are not.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I played all the way through Avowed using Frame gen 30FPS to 60FPS.
My RTX 4070 couldn't max the graphics at 4K without it.
So far Avowed has been the only game that both looked and played well doing this sorta thing.
Input lag was indeed a thing, but the game isn't a twitch action game. So it wasn't that much of an issue for me.
I don't understand how Nvidia Reflex works but it does.
Usually Framegen usually has flickering/strobing graphics that I can't stand, but it was absent in Avowed.
It's possible for some games to do with 30 FPS frame gen up to 60FPS. But it's only 'acceptable'
I can't imagine 15FPS though.
My RTX 4070 couldn't max the graphics at 4K without it.
So far Avowed has been the only game that both looked and played well doing this sorta thing.
Input lag was indeed a thing, but the game isn't a twitch action game. So it wasn't that much of an issue for me.
I don't understand how Nvidia Reflex works but it does.
Usually Framegen usually has flickering/strobing graphics that I can't stand, but it was absent in Avowed.
It's possible for some games to do with 30 FPS frame gen up to 60FPS. But it's only 'acceptable'
I can't imagine 15FPS though.
MMaRsu
Member
I thing FG is pretty useful. Clickbait videos are not.
Ofcourse FG is useful.
But not when the base game runs at 15 FPS on a RTX 4070 and needs FG to even get to 30fps.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
I think the people playing with FG at base 15 fps don't care. They're super rare tho.
Roman Empire
Member
Can't do unbox of frame generation.
Fbh
Gold Member
That's always the problem with tech like this, it sounds good on paper but then it gets used as an excuse to not optimize.
Going into this gen I naively though devs would use upscaling to enhance games running at native 1080p or 1440p. Instead we are seeing more and more games, specially UE5 ones, rendering at under 1080p, sometimes as low as 720p.
It's the same with this, on paper it sounds like a compelling way to make your 60fps+ appear smoother, now we are seeing it used to target 30/60fps.
Going into this gen I naively though devs would use upscaling to enhance games running at native 1080p or 1440p. Instead we are seeing more and more games, specially UE5 ones, rendering at under 1080p, sometimes as low as 720p.
It's the same with this, on paper it sounds like a compelling way to make your 60fps+ appear smoother, now we are seeing it used to target 30/60fps.
hououinkyouma00
Member
You'll never be able to change my mind that Frame Generation and the AI upscalers like DLSS/FSR/PSSR aren't just excuses for devs to not properly optimize their games.
Don't get me wrong. I use them and think (reluctantly with FG) they are useful but I just feel like there is a dependence on them now. I don't think anybody should be forced to use FG to get good performance when they are spending >$500 on a GPU alone (that's a whole other can of worms by itself).
Don't get me wrong. I use them and think (reluctantly with FG) they are useful but I just feel like there is a dependence on them now. I don't think anybody should be forced to use FG to get good performance when they are spending >$500 on a GPU alone (that's a whole other can of worms by itself).
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MMaRsu
Member
The game runs at 15fps without framegen. The dev is using it as a crutch
T4keD0wN
Member
I think its more likely that whoever was in charge of making that Lego Batman chart fucked it up because the chart is so ridiculous.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Youtubers gonna Youtube.
All of them are Clickbait Factories.
All of them are Clickbait Factories.
forsakkenSoul
Member
No, it's not. I played CP77 with FG on and the experience was way better. Playing below 60 fps with heavy motion blur all over the screen is one of the worst things during a playthrough. With FG on I was able to get past 60 fps, which significantly reduced the motion blur. In terms of smoothness, sure, it's not magic, but it's definitely not a useless tech below 60 fps. Also just to clarify, my base framerate was around 45 fps with DLSS enabled.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Aaah its about batman lego? I did not watch the video cuz at work but those specs are fake as shit. If theyre not i doubt the lego fanbase cares. We're not its target demographic.
Hyet
Member
I'd rather use frame gen to stabilize framerates that are already good but not perfect more than to pretend the game is smoother than it actually is by inflating FPS metrics. If your game runs at 15fps frame gen won't fix that. If you run it al 65-80 but it can help you with getting a "75fps at all times" experience I think that's much more interesting.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Because it's been proven time and time again to influence the algorithm in a positive way.
Signalis
Gold Member
But how? Do people find someone looking like a retard something they want to watch, it has the opposite effect for me?
hououinkyouma00
Member
No clue. I'm sure somebody has some video out there explaining all the intricacies of it but I don't care enough to have looked it up. All I know is that it works which is why you get so many soy boy faces on YouTube.
Holammer
Member
Ever notice the arrows and circles in thumbnails, it's an old trick, but it's still a "best practice" for thumbnails. They used to be red, but yellow and white are common now.
dgrdsv
Member
There's been what? two titles which did this? One from Capcom and another one recently?
That's over a span of 2,5 years FG is on the market now, which means that there were several hundreds of game releases between then and now.
Am I the only one who don't see the "issue" which people seem so keen on pointing out again and again (and of course HUB had to make a video on it cause of them clicks from idiots)? If anything I'm seeing the opposite more often - games which don't have FG and run fairly badly so you're forced to use some LSFG or SM to make them run better, which kinda proves that supporting FG is in fact beneficial most of the time and doesn't mean that games are using it "as a crutch" to avoid anything, it's just an option for increasing your FPS if you're fine with the side effects.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Immortals of Aveum, Black Myth Wukong on PS5, Borderlands 4, and there are more. They don't always straight-up mention FG in their specs sheets, but for instance, in Borderlands' case, Gearbox was basically, "use frame gen and DLSS, bro", because the game ran like complete shit. Several devs have just recommended using frame gen when their games run badly.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Damn it, you promised us not to do drugs while posting on Gaf.
Doctor Hades
Member
Will definitely NOT be pre-ordering the LEGO Batman game based on the PC specs but then no-one should really be pre-ordering games anyway. Always best to wait for reviews and feedback on the final build before deciding whether to buy and what platform to buy it on. This could well be a game that is fine on consoles (because the developers prioritised those platforms) but a disaster on PC. It is using Unreal Engine 5 after all which is notorious for being heavy and poorly optimised. Then again the developers might be using frame gen to hit 60 fps on the consoles for all we know as this was used in the console versions of Black Myth: Wukong, also an Unreal Engine 5 game that had optimisation issues.
I wasn't particularly impressed with the performance of the PS5 version seen in the recent preview videos on YouTube. The parts where the action was enclosed seemed to run fine but the framerate in the open world sections looked wonky and unstable. This is a game that is released on 22nd May so that is only two weeks away so not much chance of that improving before release in my opinion.
I am fine with frame gen, I use it regularly in games to smooth out the perceived motion, but only when the native framerate is 70+ fps. I own a 500 Hz QD-OLED monitor so it is lovely to be able to use frame gen in less demanding games to make full use of the high refresh rate even if the real framerate is only half that.
I would never use it to, say, hit 60 fps from 30 fps because that would just look and feel awful to play. I know it does because I played badly optimised games on my PC where I hoped frame gen would save the day, e.g. Monster Hunter Wilds, which remains one of the worst optimised games I have ever played and it doesn't even use Unreal Engine 5! Frame gen is intended for use when the native framerate is 60 fps or higher in my opinion. I can only image how awful frame gen is when used at 15 fps to achieve 30 fps. Yuck!
I wasn't particularly impressed with the performance of the PS5 version seen in the recent preview videos on YouTube. The parts where the action was enclosed seemed to run fine but the framerate in the open world sections looked wonky and unstable. This is a game that is released on 22nd May so that is only two weeks away so not much chance of that improving before release in my opinion.
I am fine with frame gen, I use it regularly in games to smooth out the perceived motion, but only when the native framerate is 70+ fps. I own a 500 Hz QD-OLED monitor so it is lovely to be able to use frame gen in less demanding games to make full use of the high refresh rate even if the real framerate is only half that.
I would never use it to, say, hit 60 fps from 30 fps because that would just look and feel awful to play. I know it does because I played badly optimised games on my PC where I hoped frame gen would save the day, e.g. Monster Hunter Wilds, which remains one of the worst optimised games I have ever played and it doesn't even use Unreal Engine 5! Frame gen is intended for use when the native framerate is 60 fps or higher in my opinion. I can only image how awful frame gen is when used at 15 fps to achieve 30 fps. Yuck!
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dgrdsv
Member
Consoles are a completely different thing, FG there has been used to hit the beloved 60 FPS target - something which was never possible in 100% of console releases and the developers had to do something with the stupid expectations of the public.
And BL4 was badly optimized on PC regardless of whether you used FG or not, nothing would change if it didn't support FG, you would just not have the option.
