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[Zaptruder]

WoW has recently fallen prey to the very things that it was so staunchly against when it begun.

As it stands, a majority of the content are released for a specific type of player; the end game raider.

Fine if you're in an end game raiding guild...

but you know, the majority of players aren't.

Those people are still stuck in DM, Strat, Schol, UBRS, 3 of 4 have been in the game since release.

ZG is an intresting step, but realistically, 20 is still too large a group to gather in a reasonable time frame, provides worse loot than MC with higher difficulty... so it's been rather phyrric in its success as a bridging ground for UBRS and MC (I'd estimate 80% of those that complete ZG successfully have also beaten MC).

There have recently been pretty major uproars in their forums... the expansion pack will seek to redress many of the issues, but at the same time, its stern warning for the developers to not fall into the same trap.

Have end game raiding content sure, but make sure you continue to cater to the rest of us.

Current max item level that can be achieved by a non-raider (note, not necessarily not a hardcore player) is 62ish at best, the best a raider can achieve is more along the lines of 80, with legendary items in the game.
The disparity is rather too tremendous, and the AQ instance will only continue to widen that.

Note, I'm not saying raiders shouldn't be at an advantage; they should; it does take effort to organize and coordinate the raiding guilds, but at the same time, it shouldn't be the only avenue to take if you want to see anything/progress beyond DM/UBRS.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Well Zap, the thing is, I imagine early-mid game content's usually on the back burner because there's still content for those people who haven't got there. More 5-mans would be divine, though.

 

[Zaptruder]

Well Zap, the thing is, I imagine early-mid game content's usually on the back burner because there's still content for those people who haven't got there. More 5-mans would be divine, though.

Nah, I'm talking about level 60 content.

The game HAS been out for over a year now, so even casual players will have started hitting up strath, schol, UBRS something serious now.

The players that are a little more than casual will gone through those instances months ago and still not have moved beyond.

level 1-59 is fine in WoW; they have no need to add more content to it; but 60, and soon 70 where people end up spending a majority of their time will need things redressed.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"level 1-59 is fine in WoW; they have no need to add more content to it; but 60, and soon 70 where people end up spending a majority of their time will need things redressed."

Expansion Pack!11!

I can only wonder how long it would take people to go from 60-70, though. That just seems like such a minor step in levelling to be worth being a bulletpoint for an expansion pack.

 

[Zaptruder]

"level 1-59 is fine in WoW; they have no need to add more content to it; but 60, and soon 70 where people end up spending a majority of their time will need things redressed."

Expansion Pack!11!

I can only wonder how long it would take people to go from 60-70, though. That just seems like such a minor step in levelling to be worth being a bulletpoint for an expansion pack.

If it follows the exponentially rising exp needs for levels, then I'm guessing it'll take as long to level from 60-70 as from 40-60. Which in turn took longer than 1-40.

 

[Ronok]

I'm currently playing FFXI I love it, just wish I hadn't introduced it to my g/f as she is even more addicted to me now..... Good thing I actually live with her or it might have caused bigger problems. ;_;

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm currently playing FFXI I love it, just wish I hadn't introduced it to my g/f as she is even more addicted to me now..... Good thing I actually live with her or it might have caused bigger problems. ;_;

Look. The key to enjoying that kind of situation is to do her from behind, while she's casting healing spells on the raid group fighting a HNM.

 

[etiolate]

I play Guild Wars and will prolly give WoW a monthly trial try soon.

I really don't think someone trying something different will work honestly. The grind is the pull, dungeons and dragons is the look they're use to and just little carrots in front of noses is how the systems work.

Even though GW tried something different and it has over a million users now, the things it does different and the attitude towards it from the mmorpg base is rather negative.

 

[Flynn]

Here's what I see for the future of MMOs:

User Created Content: Create quests that allow certain players to create their own quests. These, of course would have to be developer approved, but I could see this become a clever way to expand playablity and give every server a life of its own.

Paid Character Actors: Why have NPCs just sit around on their ass? Remember when you could walk up and talk to Lord British? Why not pay GM actors to take on the roles of certain royalty, etc. Have them round up people for raids, lead parties through exclusive instances and straight up role play.

Encouragement to Role Play: I'm not a fan of team-speak and other stuff that pulls you out of the game world. To make MMOs better, I think developers really need to work to encourage role play.

I'm very happy with Silver Hand, an RP server for WOW. People do their best to keep OOC talk to a minimum -- even in Guild Chat. City of Villians on the other hand, doesn't seem to have much role play going on at all. I was actually in a party that had just robbed a bank, icing tons of guards. One player made a comment about "killing pigs" and the rest of the party was offended. You're playing a game called "City of Villains" for Christ sake. Don't get your nose all out of shape when somebody you're playing with ACTS like a Villain.

 

[Scrow]

more cyberpunk damn it im so sick of slaying teh dragon....



*applies cpr to Neocron and Anarchy Online*

that's why i think blizz need to go ahead with world of starcraft. they've got the tech all worked out with WoW, now they just need to add the right content.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

This will be y next MMO if I decided to continue playing MMOs

http://www.mythicentertainment.com/warhammer/

 

[myzhi]

Here's what I see for the future of MMOs:

User Created Content: Create quests that allow certain players to create their own quests. These, of course would have to be developer approved, but I could see this become a clever way to expand playablity and give every server a life of its own.

Paid Character Actors: Why have NPCs just sit around on their ass? Remember when you could walk up and talk to Lord British? Why not pay GM actors to take on the roles of certain royalty, etc. Have them round up people for raids, lead parties through exclusive instances and straight up role play.

Sounds wonderful, but they will probably lead to many problems.

1) User create content. Looks awesome at 1st. Here are some issues. A person can create quest that is easy, but gives insane loot. Quest could have errors, text, missing req. (items, NPC, and etc.), doesn't fit with lore, and etc. The developers would have to hire people to debug / test all user quests. Might as well hire these people to make quest sinstead. Less hassle.

2) WoW has over 100 servers. Hiring 100+ actors to chat and make / leads raids cost $$$. Chatting / playing with actor may sound awesome, but how will they handle it when hundreds / thousands of users are trying to get their attention at the same time. Can we say overwhelm. It will be fustrating experience for everyone. As for leading raids, they can only lead a few at a time. Many paid users will be left out and piss.


It's just not practical.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

WoW has recently fallen prey to the very things that it was so staunchly against when it begun.

As it stands, a majority of the content are released for a specific type of player; the end game raider.

Fine if you're in an end game raiding guild...

but you know, the majority of players aren't.

Those people are still stuck in DM, Strat, Schol, UBRS, 3 of 4 have been in the game since release.

ZG is an intresting step, but realistically, 20 is still too large a group to gather in a reasonable time frame, provides worse loot than MC with higher difficulty... so it's been rather phyrric in its success as a bridging ground for UBRS and MC (I'd estimate 80% of those that complete ZG successfully have also beaten MC).

There have recently been pretty major uproars in their forums... the expansion pack will seek to redress many of the issues, but at the same time, its stern warning for the developers to not fall into the same trap.

Have end game raiding content sure, but make sure you continue to cater to the rest of us.

Current max item level that can be achieved by a non-raider (note, not necessarily not a hardcore player) is 62ish at best, the best a raider can achieve is more along the lines of 80, with legendary items in the game.
The disparity is rather too tremendous, and the AQ instance will only continue to widen that.

Note, I'm not saying raiders shouldn't be at an advantage; they should; it does take effort to organize and coordinate the raiding guilds, but at the same time, it shouldn't be the only avenue to take if you want to see anything/progress beyond DM/UBRS.

maybe the ZG armor sets arent so hot, but the weapons are INSANE theres an epic polearm that procs for like 1k dmg decapitate move, not to mention great pets for hunters . MC is great for gear but compared to dungeons like Strat,, Mauradon, Dire Maul, and Scholo the place is a boring hole. There are other options besides MC like onyxia which goes far quicker for comparable gear, the two epic spawns in blasted lands and azhara, and pvp gear. Dont tell me the unstoppable force wasnt the reigning champ of 2h weapons for months before knockback got nerfed.

I guess if your a phat lewtz head in a guild not built for raids the situation is driving you crazy. But for people like me i just need a shot to kill people and in a group with level 60 dungeon gear from places like DM, strat, onyxia etc you can still be effective in groups.

I really dont understand why this is such a surprise to people this is the way it has been in every mmorpg i've ever played. Now darkage was the exception you could make the best gear in the game for a long time that was great. But even then you had to have a shit ton of money to afford masterpiece gear so the disparity was still there. Then of course TOA came out and put an end to that crap.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Even though GW tried something different and it has over a million users now, the things it does different and the attitude towards it from the mmorpg base is rather negative.

If it's the same kinda people from the WoW forums that planned attacks to take down GW forums, then their opinion on that game or any game don't matter because they are mental midgets to the higest degree.

 

[Flynn]

Sounds wonderful, but they will probably lead to many problems.

1) User create content. Looks awesome at 1st. Here are some issues. A person can create quest that is easy, but gives insane loot. Quest could have errors, text, missing req. (items, NPC, and etc.), doesn't fit with lore, and etc. The developers would have to hire people to debug / test all user quests. Might as well hire these people to make quest sinstead. Less hassle.

2) WoW has over 100 servers. Hiring 100+ actors to chat and make / leads raids cost $$$. Chatting / playing with actor may sound awesome, but how will they handle it when hundreds / thousands of users are trying to get their attention at the same time. Can we say overwhelm. It will be fustrating experience for everyone. As for leading raids, they can only lead a few at a time. Many paid users will be left out and piss.


It's just not practical.

1) Start with a building block quest creator. There are certain requirements that all missions must meet. Like a choose your own adventure. Perhaps the creator must provide the loot for the quest, so maybe they're more like one time missions, or bounties. It's gonna happen eventually, might as well explore it than dismiss it.

2) So wait. That doesn't happen to GMs already? You've already got a built in base of people who play 24/7 and role play very well. Hire them over. Train them and put them to work. For raids and whatnot, you first reserve it for people who have gotten a rare drop from an uberboss -- so it's something you really have to earn. I guarantee this is going to happen more and more. Star Wars already did the Darth Vader event, right?

You're not a game designer are you? Your post has the earmarks of a frustrated, overworked programmer.

 

[Zensetsu]

Personally I would love to see a MMORPG that has stuff to do - totally irrespective of fighting. WoW is fun, but its really just about combat when it all boils down....I would be interested in a game that has the combat systems, the opposed sides and the creeps to fight; but also allows you to explore the world, to build settlements and player\npc communities etc.
Although I realise the technology and human input to keep something like this running would be incredible, I think its only a matter of time before someone takes the step and makes a MMORPG thats about living, rather than just fighting.

 

[Zaptruder]

1) Start with a building block quest creator. There are certain requirements that all missions must meet. Like a choose your own adventure. Perhaps the creator must provide the loot for the quest, so maybe they're more like one time missions, or bounties. It's gonna happen eventually, might as well explore it than dismiss it.

2) So wait. That doesn't happen to GMs already? You've already got a built in base of people who play 24/7 and role play very well. Hire them over. Train them and put them to work. For raids and whatnot, you first reserve it for people who have gotten a rare drop from an uberboss -- so it's something you really have to earn. I guarantee this is going to happen more and more. Star Wars already did the Darth Vader event, right?

You're not a game designer are you? Your post has the earmarks of a frustrated, overworked programmer.

GMs... they don't just work on single servers.

They work on multiple servers per GM per shift.

Given the ticket times for GM requests, their hands are already quite full dealing with player complaints.

 

[hyp]

don't forget about guild wars. not your typical MMORPG, but definitely a kick ass game in its own right. stone me to death you WoW lovers, but i actually enjoyed it a lot more.

 

[ManaByte]

1) Start with a building block quest creator. There are certain requirements that all missions must meet. Like a choose your own adventure. Perhaps the creator must provide the loot for the quest, so maybe they're more like one time missions, or bounties. It's gonna happen eventually, might as well explore it than dismiss it.

2) So wait. That doesn't happen to GMs already? You've already got a built in base of people who play 24/7 and role play very well. Hire them over. Train them and put them to work. For raids and whatnot, you first reserve it for people who have gotten a rare drop from an uberboss -- so it's something you really have to earn. I guarantee this is going to happen more and more. Star Wars already did the Darth Vader event, right?

You're not a game designer are you? Your post has the earmarks of a frustrated, overworked programmer.

1) Well it's obvious people are thinking of how do to exactly that:
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq...ssage.id=154262&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children… What if your characters could have children and pass on the family name…

What if players could build fantastic dungeons that become part of the worlds we create with tools we give them? How would that work exactly?

Can MMORPGs have skill based combat?

Interesting note on the children idea; UO actually had graphics for children in the original release client but they were never activated or implemented so that's an idea that has been around for a while.

Skill-based MMO combat is a reality now with Guild Wars, D&D Online: Stormreach, and the new SWG. And while CoH/CoV is still the old turn based auto-attack, their PVP is fantastic in that its based on your characters skills/powers as opposed to having UBER RAID KILLA SWORD. I have friends completely addicted to CoV PVP due to that so I'll probably jump in next week.

Personally I would love to see a MMORPG that has stuff to do - totally irrespective of fighting. WoW is fun, but its really just about combat when it all boils down....I would be interested in a game that has the combat systems, the opposed sides and the creeps to fight; but also allows you to explore the world, to build settlements and player\npc communities etc.
Although I realise the technology and human input to keep something like this running would be incredible, I think its only a matter of time before someone takes the step and makes a MMORPG thats about living, rather than just fighting.

There are a couple like that actually. A Tale in the Desert and Second Life are two examples. The Sims Online was another, but everyone knows what happened to that. And both UO and SWG make it possible to just be a non-combat person who crafts stuff for a living.

GMs... they don't just work on single servers.

They work on multiple servers per GM per shift.

Given the ticket times for GM requests, their hands are already quite full dealing with player complaints.

Depends on the game you're talking about. Some games have server specific GMs, others do not.

don't forget about guild wars. not your typical MMORPG, but definitely a kick ass game in its own right. stone me to death you WoW lovers, but i actually enjoyed it a lot more.

Guild Wars is great because it isn't too much of a timesink. Looks gorgeous as well.

D&D Online: Stormreach will attract a very different audience than most MMOs as it's a very literal adaptation of D&D and is structured unlike most other MMOs. I think it's a breath of fresh air honestly and is a welcome diversion from the regular MMO grind.

Vanguard will be pretty big I believe. It's the one I'm looking forward to most in 2006. R.I.P. Keith Parkinson.

 

[Suikoguy]

I've been thinking about trying City of Vilians...

 

[ManaByte]

I've been thinking about trying City of Vilians...

I'm hearing the PVP is excellent thanks to no relying on gear and instead on your skill choices as a character. Definitely going to get it in a week or two.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Guild Wars isn't a MMORPG.

 

[Deku]

Playing FFXI is an obligaiton? Yes,if you're in a high level, powerful LS that's camping kings and gods. It's no different than being in a powerful guild in Everquest. It can also be a fun game if all you want out of it is community and doing questing and adventuring on the weekends. It's all about what you want.

When people want uber leet end game gear, they wait their turn and in the meantime, peopl edo spend hours doing stuff for other people to build up capital so when it comes time for 30 member alliance to kill a dragon for 1 item that goes to one person, the LS will actually commit that kind of manpower to the task.


In anycase With FFXI there was a failed, but adminrable attempt to marry two very different cultures together into one game world. It's too bad that SE and the first wave of retarded NA players screwed it up and the split between the NA and JP communities is now permanent.

 

[Flynn]

A long time ago, I had an idea for an MMO called Eden. Standard MMO except when you die, you go to heaven or hell, depending on how you behaved on Earth. Your spirit must then fight it's way back to purgatory. Then two players must mate on Earth for you to come back to life. This whole reincarnation process could take weeks or longer. There would be equal amounts of things to do in heaven and hell as in earth. Also, depending on how good or evil you were, you would have that much farther to travel.

Back to the reincarnation thing. When you're born, you don't pick your name. You're named by your parents. And you're very weak. You are protected and nurtured by your parents until you're strong enough to stand on your own. I thought it would be cool if you couldn't talk either. As you progressed you'd slowly learn some signs until finally grasping language.

 

[ManaByte]

A long time ago, I had an idea for an MMO called Eden. Standard MMO except when you die, you go to heaven or hell, depending on how you behaved on Earth. Your spirit must then fight it's way back to purgatory. Then two players must mate on Earth for you to come back to life. This whole reincarnation process could take weeks or longer. There would be equal amounts of things to do in heaven and hell as in earth. Also, depending on how good or evil you were, you would have that much farther to travel.

Back to the reincarnation thing. When you're born, you don't pick your name. You're named by your parents. And you're very weak. You are protected and nurtured by your parents until you're strong enough to stand on your own. I thought it would be cool if you couldn't talk either. As you progressed you'd slowly learn some signs until finally grasping language.

Good idea except for the reincarnation taking weeks. Not a good idea for MMOs. Horizons tried that with the Dragons where it could take a LONG time (six months?) to become a full grown Dragon.

 

[Flynn]

Good idea except for the reincarnation taking weeks. Not a good idea for MMOs. Horizons tried that with the Dragons where it could take a LONG time (six months?) to become a full grown Dragon.

I figured that there could be cool quests in the afterlife to do, a whole host of things you could accomplish and take back with you to the next life. For example, you go to the river Styx and kill some guy, he gives you some item or blessing that gives your reborn character a buff or a rare skill.

 

[Wafflecopter]

I'm still subscribed to FFXI even though I haven't logged on in over a year. :|

:|