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[Montresor]

I have no problem with anyone who will enjoy this game. I'm a big softie though. In Fallout 3 I felt bad when I captured some slaves for an achievement. I made a save file strategically so I could reverse that decision after earning the achievement and continue with a non-slaver save file.

I'm sort of disgusted and grossed out at the self-righteous people in this thread looking down on anyone who will enjoy this game. What would you say about people who happily enslaved people in Fallout? About people who murdered prostitutes in GTA? Do prostitutes ever fight back? No; in that game they get exploited and then run away helpless if you attack them.

You've all committed heinous acts in games before, conveniently hiding behind "b-b-b-b-but they deserve it!!!!"

Don't get me started on military shooters, where in real life the United States are basically terrorists with their drone program. We all happily attacked helpless targets from 10000 feet in the air in the AC130 in Modern Warfare 1....and you have the gall to look down on attacking helpless people in this new game?

Let me stress that I am a huuuge softie and I likely will have trouble playing this game, but I want to emphasize how toxic and disingenuous and despicable it is to look down on those that will play and enjoy this game, when you yourselves have played games that essentially do the same thing, but whom all hide behind the bullshit excuse "they attacked me first!!"

 

[xBladeM6x]

Seems like a fun and terapeutic game for venting after a shitty day. I used to do that a lot in GTA.

Give me 2 copies, please.

I used to use Gears of War for that, but it would just make me rage more. xD

 

[RM8]

This game doesn't seem to pretend to be anything beyond a mass murder simulator, and that's pretty messed up. Definitely would not play, it's one of those games that "is not supposed to be fun" anyway, with the "plus" of revolving around an awful theme.

I'm looking forward to upcoming media coverage...

 

[Lord_Balkan]

Right, but the thing is, at least to me, context is important. Remove all context from games where you shoot stuff and yeah, they are the same.

Halo:
You play as a polygon man who uses polygon guns to shoot other polygon guys

Hatred:
You play as a polygon man who uses polygon guns to shoot other polygon guys

Halo:
You play as the Master Chief, a space marine in big armour who is super well trained and fight against the covenant, a collection of hostile alien races that want to destroy humanity

Hatred:
You play as a guy whose name doesn't matter and use guns to kill innocent people who can't defend themselves because you want to kill people and die violently.

Halo has a story and reasons why you are fighting these guys (it opens with them atatcking your ship and killing your crew mates), a justification for the violence you will be using against them while Hatred has nothing, just an angsty guy killing because.

Isn't the importance of context entirely up to the individual? What happens when someone doesn't find context important and because of that is able to enjoy this game?

 

[VibratingDonkey]

The most offensive thing about this game is probably its marketing trick. Either that or the fact that it appears to be working, at least here on GAF. 9 pages.

To make me a bit less of a hypocrite, this will be my first and last post in this thread.

Spoiler

I got last page'd. Doesn't count!

 

[Lord_Balkan]

Are you disagreeing with me? I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't understand the point of your reply to me. We seem to largely agree, but the tone seems contentious.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I apologize if it seemed contentious- that wasn't my purpose. I just thought your post was an interesting read and wanted to expand on it.

 

[oni-link]

Yeah, I just think you're being sentimental and dismissive. We'll agree to disagree.

Well i'm dismissing the notion that just because it's pixels and on a screen and we know it's not real that we're silly for feeling an emotional response to it

Are you completely unmoved by all cinema?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

What happens if I walk out of the house and don't shoot anybody?

 

[Mesoian]

Right, but the thing is, at least to me, context is important. Remove all context from games where you shoot stuff and yeah, they are the same.

Halo:
You play as a polygon man who uses polygon guns to shoot other polygon guys

Hatred:
You play as a polygon man who uses polygon guns to shoot other polygon guys

Halo:
You play as the Master Chief, a space marine in big armour who is super well trained and fight against the covenant, a collection of hostile alien races that want to destroy humanity

Hatred:
You play as a guy whose name doesn't matter and use guns to kill innocent people who can't defend themselves because you want to kill people and die violently.

Halo has a story and reasons why you are fighting these guys (it opens with them atatcking your ship and killing your crew mates), a justification for the violence you will be using against them while Hatred has nothing, just an angsty guy killing because.

Right, the conversation we're having now centers around whether or not context is enough to trivialize the acts of violence we do in games. Take Prototype 2. Your wife was murdered and you're out for revenge against the monster who did it, and you do so by becoming the monster yourself and killing anyone you find in your path maintain your strength. You have justice on your side, but you still just ate that homeless ladies' head to replenish your health.

Is that okay? Does it matter? How is it different than Hatred? How is it different than Halo or Robotron?

I totally agree with you that context is super important, but there's something to be said about the actual violence being committed outside of the WHY violence is being committed.

What happens if I walk out of the house and don't shoot anybody?

That's a fine question.

The most offensive thing about this game is probably it's marketing trick. Either that or the fact that it appears to be working, at least here on GAF. 9 pages.

To make me a bit less of a hypocrite, this will be my first and last post in this thread.

Spoiler

I got last page'd. Doesn't count!

Even if it is just a marketing tool, and I agree, it probably is, at least we got some good conversation out of it.

 

[JNA]

Precisely why I'll be playing this, at least a little. I'm a bit of a masochist that way. Lol

I'll probably be playing it as well because I find it interesting.

Hmmm, a character that kills for the sake of killing? I wonder, isn't there a character that is both well loved and well praised for being as such? A character that even if you never played the games, watch the TV show or he movies, you must have at least heard his name come up once? A character that is so well known, he is critically acclaimed for being one of the greatest villains in any form of media of all time? I wonder...OH YEAH!

But no cry or outrage over this right? Maybe it's because he's dressed like a clown or something. XD

 

[Sothpaw]

Looks like a shitty GTA.

 

[Sify64]

The trailer was awesome, it reminds me of the fun mayhem in GTA games but even bloodier.
I definetely would like to play it.

 

[BLUElightCory]

It's a clever conceit. Players slaughter people in their thousands without thinking just because a game tells them a character is a villain, a guard or a soldier. Games have repeatedly embraced torture as a gameplay mechanic to no complaint from gamers, they have indirectly encouraged players to laugh at killing prostitutes and strippers, reduced the idea of taking a life to a number on a score or a variable determining bonuses later on. Now this comes along and everyone gets all righteous? I'm calling bullshit on that. This is the sort of game most of you will have been playing your entire gaming lives and as many have pointed out, a small reskin, a justifying objective or the dishonest pretense of 'satire' would make it all OK in everyone's eyes. No matter how it turns out, this game looks to be offering exactly what so many other games do but without any excuses to hide behind: murdering people as an accomplishment and source of pleasure. Anyone who has ever played and enjoyed a Rockstar game in particular has absolutely no justification in getting high and mighty over this.

Games like GTA and Watch Dogs don't shy away from harming innocents, but the point of those games is not the murder of innocent people. There's an obvious distinction between Rockstar's games and what Hatred's devs seem to be going for. The entire point of Hatred (as far as we know) is the realistic looking mass murder of innocents who post no threat to the player character, a la Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc. The game has every right to exist, and people have every right to play it, but it's incredibly tasteless and it's potentially damaging to the industry.

I think it's important that the violence isn't so much the issue, it's the context.

 

[Crash Station]

The point being shooting innocent people for the sake of it makes this game pretty awful

Yeah it's "only a game" but so was RapeLay and i don't think most people would defend that as being "only a game"

A lot of games feature killing but it always has context, and even games like GTA you're not supposed to kill random people, if you do the police will come etc, and it will make your life harder anyway

The fact there's a discussion at all does kind of prove a lot of people will jump to its defense as something that has a right to exist because "it's just a game". It was the same way when the RapeLay controversy hit.

This thread alone has wildly different opinions that have extended to human empathy in both fiction and the real world and more topics that will continue on long after this game is released. Everyone's got different values, and it's pretty interesting how people are reacting.

The fact we got a 10 page thread about it makes me think the developers got what they wanted; people talking about their game.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I think the worst thing I've ever done in a video game was to unleash fires and tornadoes and King Koopas upon the citizens of Sim City. I murdered tens of thousands in the space of about 5 minutes.

 

[Mesoian]

But no cry or outrage over this right? Maybe it's because he's dressed like a clown or something. XD

To be fair, if this guy had the charisma of Heath Ledger's Joker, I think more of us would be interested in the final product. The Joker was a far more interesting villain who stood for more things than, "MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH LETS SHOOT PEOPLE AND DIE TRYING!!!"

Captivating villains are rare. Not Important is not a captivating villain based on what we've been shown.

I think the worst thing I've ever done in a video game was to unleash fires and tornadoes and King Koopas upon the citizens of Sim City. I murdered tens of thousands in the space of about 5 minutes.

Real talk, that used to upset the hell out of me when I was a little kid.

"But what about the people in those buildings?"

 

[Skux]

This seems like a poor attempt at shock value, I doubt the media is going to take it seriously when it's so obvious and over the top.

 

[Aske]

Not at all - context matters. In GTA, there IS a story and conflict about the morality of the actions taken. The conceit isn't simply murder as many people as you can in as horrible a way as possible until you're violently killed. If you're seeking out satisfaction from those negative actions, if that's the only way you can feel or if you need to feel those emotions, there is something wrong with you. I mean, you may not want to hear it, and you may not believe it, but there is something wrong in finding joy or satisfaction in that.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I have fun killing things in games; but it's not something I need in my life, or the only way I can feel anything! I do find joy and satisfaction in game-based violence (have you seen Mortal Kombat's Wishbone fatality? Love it!), but I have no desire to hurt another human being. Did I just blow your mind? I know, right?!

People enjoy different things. We don't have to share the same tastes, but we do need to try to empathize with each other. You can, say, listen to misogynistic rap music; and I won't like it, but I'll get it - and I'll know that your appreciation for the genre doesn't mean you're mentally unstable or harbouring a closet hatred of women. Just try to be open to the possibility that people can enjoy games like this and there might not be anything wrong with them! I promise you, the world will feel much less scary.

 

[Popnbake]

Never played GTAO so don't know much about it other than it being a sandbox type thing to dick around in (be that do missions, mow down each other and by standers, drive and explore etc) so I don't think it needs or even has any context other than "do what you like by online becuase why not?".

Regarding GTA and the killing there there are at least reasons be they self defence (even if the defence is a result of a criminal act) and the cops can at least shoot back at you and mostly it's a defensive action, they don't go out looking for cops to kill just because. GTA has more context for the goings on. You rise up in a criminal world, there is greed, mistrust of others and authority, gang violence and the like. There is more development as to why your character is doing this, their motivations, why they are risking their lives for this (even if the reason ultimately boils down to greed). I just feel it's more "justified" in GTA due to the context given by the story. It's still murdering innocent cops and not so innocent criminals but there is a reason for doing it other than "lol lets kill them because mmmmmm blood and funny lols".

Hatred the "justification" is the character hates people so kill them because he expects to die anyway. I just want more of a reason than that. Guy just wants to kill because he wants to kill because people "deserve" it where as in GTA your character kills because they either have no choice, because of self defence (even if it is in defence of a criminal act) or revenge. At least there there are reasons as to why the character is doing it and why you as a player have to do it.

And I'm also not making any comments on the random killing sprees people go on outside of missions or during them whatever. I'm just talking about missions in the story. The stuff you have to do and not where you whip out an RPG into a crowd and get a 5 star rating and hole up in a building for half an hour.

I'm also not saying this game shouldn't exist or should be censored or anything, just this isn't for me and the reasons why I think this isn't for me.

Yes, this type of game isn't for for me as well.

But both games have segements where you kill innocent policemen and you kill innocent bystanders in Hatred which is optional in GTA. In my opinion having more stuff to do and its story doesn't make GTA's murder sprees more "justified".

 

[Moofers]

I tried watching again to see if I was over reacting at all and I couldn't even finish the fucking thing. It's sickening.

 

[JNA]

To be fair, if this guy had the charisma of Heath Ledger's Joker, I think more of us would be interested in the final product. The Joker was a far more interesting villain who stood for more things than, "MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH LETS SHOOT PEOPLE AND DIE TRYING!!!"

Captivating villains are rare. Not Important is not a captivating villain based on what we've been shown.

Except you don't know that. You don't know what the main character of this game is like yet. All we have to go by is one trailer of gameplay and vague dialogue.

Hell, the character already said something along the lines of "I hate people". Why does he hate people so much that he goes through killing any moving target he sees? Well I guess we will have to wait and find out now won't we?

Tell me something: in your own words, what makes the Joker an interesting villain to you? Is it how he kills people? Why he does it? How the Joker views the world or human beings in general?

You could probably answer that, and if you do, know that we have yet to know the answers to these questions for the main character for Hatred. That one trailer doesn't tell us his motivations for his actions. We have been given many comics, movies, games, etc. Of content for the Joker.

Pretty unfair to judge the character here as "oh he just wants to shoot people and stuff for no reason" without context or knowing more about the game first.

 

[Sify64]

I tried watching again to see if I was over reacting at all and I couldn't even finish the fucking thing. It's sickening.

Uhmm, is it really that sickening? With all the types of killing sprees that go on in most AAA games, I don't see any big difference.

 

[overcast]

Uhmm, is it really that sickening? With all the types of killing sprees that go on in most AAA games, I don't see any big difference.

The context and visuals go a long way I think. The combo is too much and it's difficult for many to accept. Makes perfect sense why it's sickening to some.

 

[oni-link]

The worst thing about this game is that it will hurt games as a whole, it's the type of game people who dislike games think all games are like, it's more fuel for those who want to blame games for school shooting, for rotting kids brains etc

Also i don't really understand a lot of the GTA comparisons, have you played GTA? Listen to the radio for a few minutes, it's not a game that is meant to be taken seriously, and it's very clearly a game

This seems to set out to be as realistic as possible, it's designed to be shocking, and that's it

 

[Kimosabae]

I don't know. Violence in movies and games doesn't really affect me since I know that it's not real and that no one is being hurt.

Maybe I'll think "oh, that sucks" if something happens in a game or film but it's not going to actually bother me since it's not real. And that's why I don't see the issue with this game. I can clearly tell it's not real, so it doesn't bother me anymore than any other violent video game.

I think you should check my post history in this thread. I'm not controverting the game's existence I'm all for it and then some.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I apologize if it seemed contentious- that wasn't my purpose. I just thought your post was an interesting read and wanted to expand on it.

Ok cool. You asked this question:

Am I a worse person for enjoying that? I mean your argument can be made for many horror movies.

I wasn't sure what argument you were referring to, since I agreed with everything you said in that post lol. Hence, my confusion.

Well i'm dismissing the notion that just because it's pixels and on a screen and we know it's not real that we're silly for feeling an emotional response to it

Are you completely unmoved by all cinema?

Of course not. I'm the biggest bitch you'll ever meet when it comes to emotions and art, despite my avatar. Hell, read this (Warning: The Last of Us DLC spoilers):

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=105479852&postcount=1410

Sure it's a game, but it's in response to a cinematic.

I don't think you're understanding my position. I never said feeling an emotional response is silly. It's challenging that emotional response that provides potential for you to grow as a person. That's what this game potentially offers. That's why I think it's genius. Some would say that's art.

I'm not desensitized to violence by any means. I'm one of the queasiest people around. I squirm like a little punk at the sight of my own blood. I haven't rewatched that trailer at all, because I could barely stomach it. But the graphics and gameplay look interesting enough, that I'm actually eager to set my discomfort aside and engage a very challenging premise (for me).

Ya' know, it's funny... when I initially came across Mortal Kombat, even as a kid, I initially dismissed it as"too violent" and just "immature shock value". Then I started playing the series and it damned near took me away from SF completely for a number of years. It was rough at first: I remember the game used to give me nightmares. But that's the type of dissonance necessary in some cases when it comes to desensitization or sometimes just growing as a person.

 

[Teremap]

Games like GTA and Watch Dogs don't shy away from harming innocents, but the point of those games is not the murder of innocent people. There's an obvious distinction between Rockstar's games and what Hatred's devs seem to be going for. The entire point of Hatred (as far as we know) is the realistic looking mass murder of innocents who post no threat to the player character, a la Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc. The game has every right to exist, and people have every right to play it, but it's incredibly tasteless and it's potentially damaging to the industry.

I think it's important that the violence isn't so much the issue, it's the context.

And that's the thing that's so interesting about this. Does the context really justify the violence? When I think about it, it really doesn't matter how you justify it, you're still taking the life of another human being. Realizing that, I accept that the things I am doing in a LOT of video games are morally repulsive, and I'm fine with that.

Killing is killing. The context doesn't really change that for me. Those policemen, those guards, those opponents, they all had their own families and friends that they'd be leaving behind once I killed them. Doesn't matter that they were 'against me' or anything, I still killed them, right? So just accept that you're a remorseless killer when you step into the role of these video game protagonists already. Or else, you should probably just reject the games entirely.

 

[SilentTristero]

I have PTSD from surviving a mass shooting massacre. Kinda goes without saying that something like that is hard to go through and dramatically impacts your life. I watched the trailer for Hatred, and found it extremely distasteful, offensive, wretched, and emotionally abrasive. Having said that, of course it has a right to exist. We have to make room for even awful art to disuss the important things in our lives. Naturally, Hatred is crass and exploitative. It would be hard to argue otherwise.

But I'm working on a novel about my experience, and I think art should host a whole spectrum of philosophies and purposes. I'm comfortable with my work eventually existing alongside Hatred in the marketplace of ideas. People are right to critique Hatred. It's pretty abhorrent. But it's also beautiful that we have an intellectual culture robust enough to allow it.

 

[Aske]

Except you don't know that. You don't know what the main character of this game is like yet. All we have to go by is one trailer of gameplay and vague dialogue.

Hell, the character already said something along the lines of "I hate people". Why does he hate people so much that he goes through killing any moving target he sees? Well I guess we will have to wait and find out now won't we?

Tell me something: in your own words, what makes the Joker an interesting villain to you? Is it how he kills people? Why he does it? How the Joker views the world or human beings in general?

You could probably answer that, and if you do, know that we have yet to know the answers to these questions for the main character for Hatred. That one trailer doesn't tell us his motivations for his actions. We have been given many comics, movies, games, etc. Of content for the Joker.

Pretty unfair to judge the character here as "oh he just wants to shoot people and stuff for no reason" without context or knowing more about the game first.

...And on top of that, why does making the protagonist "interesting" suddenly make playing the exact same game in the exact same way acceptable rather than abhorrent?

 

[Daingurse]

Might pick this one up when it comes out. I like how it looks graphically, and the violence doesn't bother me.

 

[TheOGB]

...just don't try this at home and don't take it too seriously, it's just a game.

The question you may ask is: why do they do this? These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment – we wanted to create something against trends.

...Yeahhh, no. That's not a line of thinking I can get behind for this sort of thing. I don't mind a game where you do a lot of killing, but this just seems like a weak attempt to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.

 

[Mowki Kowski]

Uhmm, is it really that sickening? With all the types of killing sprees that go on in most AAA games, I don't see any big difference.

Well for me, it's the fact that it's framed with this "social outcast wanting to go out in a blaze of glory" context that doesn't sit well with me. That opening monologue seems like it took direct inspiration from the ramblings of people like Eliott Rodger and Cho Seng-Hui.

Violence in games (on its own) is fine and I'd be a hypocrite to call it out after some of the things I've done in games, but this glorification of real-world violence against innocent people isn't okay.

But then I read the creators' words in the OP and holy shit, it's just SUCH BULLSHIT.

Yep this is basically where I'm at. It's all just a bunch of reactionary bullshit.

 

[UberLevi]

I've been waiting a long time for someone to have the stones to actually make a game that doesn't put you in the shoes of a hero and doesn't give an excuse for it's excessive violence.

 

[kd-z]

I watched the trailer and thought that this looks tasteless, senseless and, to be honest, very dull.

But then I read the creators' words in the OP and holy shit, it's just SUCH BULLSHIT.

Here we go:

...just don't try this at home and don't take it too seriously, it's just a game.

And now we have game devs saying these words. Wow.

The question you may ask is: why do they do this? These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art

It sounds like they tried to put in as many catchy phrases that will make all the violent, abusive assholes of the internet go "hell yeah!". They could've as well said "this is game is not for social justice pussies! Sick burrrn!".

we wanted to create something against trends.

The current trends in indie games I see are: taking old-school mechanics and implementing them in modern ways (this often means making rather arcade-ish games), roguelites, trying to tell meaningful, human stories (Gone Home, The Novelist) and experiencing with emergent systems. This indeed has none of those.

Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure.

Except this doesn't look like pleasure at all, at least not to me. I find no fun in brutally murdering innocent civilians, bystanders, officers of the law in a realistic-looking environment. Raph Koster gives a really good example of how visuals and sound impact our enjoyment of a game in "Theory of Fun": imagine playing Tetris, but instead of blocks in cute shapes what falls from the top of the screen are twisted bodies of dead Jewish victims of the Holocaust. You're a Jew, too, and you're operating a mass charnel furnace in a death camp. Each time you form a perfect line from the bodies fire explodes from the sides of the furnace, so that the burning is as cheap as possible.
I don't know about you, devs, but this doesn't sound like fun at all.

Player has to ask himself what can push any human being to mass-murder.

So is this "just a game" (smh) or does it actually pose this moral question?

For fuck's sake, the moment-to-moment gameplay looks actually quite competent, and destructible environments are something we don't get enough of these days. But instead of making this a fun game about an alien invasion or something they turned it into Mass Murderer Simulator 2014. Good job.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

This game needs to cease development and go away. Seriously. It does not help the industry.

 

[ak1276]

The game has a right to exist, the same as people have the right to say the game is a piece of exploitative trash. Because it is.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

I have PTSD from surviving a mass shooting massacre. Kinda goes without saying that something like that is hard to go through and dramatically impacts your life. I watched the trailer for Hatred, and found it extremely distasteful, offensive, wretched, and emotionally abrasive. Having said that, of course it has a right to exist. We have to make room for even awful art to disuss the important things in our lives. Naturally, Hatred is crass and exploitative. It would be hard to argue otherwise.

But I'm working on a novel about my experience, and I think art should host a whole spectrum of philosophies and purposes. I'm comfortable with my work eventually existing alongside Hatred in the marketplace of ideas. People are right to critique Hatred. It's pretty abhorrent. But it's also beautiful that we have an intellectual culture robust enough to allow it.

I'm not sure how the balance the message of your post with your avatar Tristero. Real talk

 

[Corpekata]

I love that some people are so willing to prove how politically incorrect they are that they'll get stuck paying and playing what looks like a very basic twin stick shooter developed by some guys that worked on a shitty Painkiller expansion. Have fun with that.

Game is pretty much the exact game people who are terrified of video games think we're all playing. It looks like something you'd see in like Grandma's Boy making fun games.

 

[SilentTristero]

I'm not sure how the balance the message of your post with your avatar Tristero. Real talk

Hahaha. Totally fair point. I didn't even realize the incongruity. I've had that Chibi Splatterhouse avi since way before the shooting I survived. I've used that avatar for almost a decade. The shooting happened last summer.

I love zany horror movies. Being in a terrible shooting IRL didn't change that (although I certainly can't handle watching as many these days).

 

[Miss.Selfdestruct]

Hope you get to select from a variety of KMFDM shirts.

The context and visuals go a long way I think. The combo is too much and it's difficult for many to accept. Makes perfect sense why it's sickening to some.

Yeah, it's so much easier to swallow when it's dressed up as CoD/GTA/Uncharted, etc., etc., etc. where you shoot fictional people and it looks fun because of X purpose #5,768...

 

[moozoom]

The main character look, the gravel voice of the narrator, the music - great parody !

Spoiler

Except it's not.

I wonder if there is a craft system with mini-games ? Would be great if you can decorate your hideout with human skin lamps and intestines.

 

[oni-link]

I don't think you're understanding my position. I never said feeling an emotional response is silly. It's challenging that emotional response that provides potential for you to grow as a person. That's what this game potentially offers. That's why I think it's genius. Some would say that's art.

Maybe the full game will address that, but Spec Ops and Hotline Miami do a much better job at what you're describing

Based on that trailer this game isn't doing that, it's just going for shock value, no story, no character, no point, just killing innocent people.

The other examples are so much better as Hotline is very gamey and essentially puts a over the top murderous slant on a twitchy puzzle game, there is a disconnect between 'solving' the level, and what that entails (brutally murdering everyone because you were told by the game to do so)

Spec Ops by being another "military shooter" that actually addresses the consequences and the horror of what being a solider and shooting other people involves

Even Manhunt does a better job than this, i can see what you're saying but i think you're giving a savvy marketing team way more credit than they are due

 

[Lord_Balkan]

I think you should check my post history in this thread. I'm not controverting the game's existence I'm all for it and then some.



Ok cool. You asked this question:

I wasn't sure what argument you were referring to, since I agreed with everything you said in that post lol. Hence, my confusion.

Yeah my bad, I assumed your statement on emotions/empathy implied a statement about a person's morals. Obviously, I think we are on the same page.

 

[JNA]

...And on top of that, why does making the protagonist "interesting" suddenly make playing the exact same game in the exact same way acceptable rather than abhorrent?

That's another good question. It is yet again another justification for actions from characters in media.

If the character is interesting, "OMG HE'S SO BADASS and Dark! I love his "why so serious" line!". If the character is boring or the person that finds that character boring does the same exact actions as the former character, "OMG HE'S SO REPULSIVE! HE JUST GOES OUT AND KILLS PEOPLE LIKE A PSYCHOPATH! What were the creators thinking!?"

 

[Kimosabae]

Maybe the full game will address that, but Spec Ops and Hotline Miami do a much better job at what you're describing

Based on that trailer this game isn't doing that, it's just going for shock value, no story, no character, no point, just killing innocent people.

The other examples are so much better as Hotline is very gamey and essentially puts a over the top murderous slant on a twitchy puzzle game, there is a disconnect between 'solving' the level, and what that entails (brutally murdering everyone because you were told by the game to do so)

Spec Ops by being another "military shooter" that actually addresses the consequences and the horror of what being a solider and shooting other people involves

Even Manhunt does a better job than this, i can see what you're saying but i think you're giving a savvy marketing team way more credit than they are due

You're still not getting it.


I assume you felt some discomfort watching that video. What was it?

 

[Sify64]

The worst thing about this game is that it will hurt games as a whole, it's the type of game people who dislike games think all games are like, it's more fuel for those who want to blame games for school shooting, for rotting kids brains etc

Also i don't really understand a lot of the GTA comparisons, have you played GTA? Listen to the radio for a few minutes, it's not a game that is meant to be taken seriously, and it's very clearly a game

This seems to set out to be as realistic as possible, it's designed to be shocking, and that's it

I pretty much play GTA like that when I'm not doing story-based missions. Run over bystanders, spray bullets everywhere, bomb cars, kill police, rack up as many stars, destroy helicopters, kill SWAT officers and survive as long as I can. It's one of the main reasons why I liked the GTA series so much.

 

[Fdkn]

People have been doing this "killing spree of innocents" in GTA since forever. I probably won't play it because I'm not interested but it doesn't bother me at all

 

[thehillissilent]

I think the reason that this game needs to exist is because of the discussion we are having in this thread. Game like this bring into question what we enjoy about playing videogames and how we justify murdering due to the context.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Hahaha. Totally fair point. I didn't even realize the incongruity. I've had that Chibi Splatterhouse avi since way before the shooting I survived. I've used that avatar for almost a decade. The shooting happened last summer.

I love zany horror movies. Being in a terrible shooting IRL didn't change that (although I certainly can't handle watching as many these days).

Solid explanation, I can understand now

 

[Mesoian]

Except you don't know that. You don't know what the main character of this game is like yet. All we have to go by is one trailer of gameplay and vague dialogue.

Hell, the character already said something along the lines of "I hate people". Why does he hate people so much that he goes through killing any moving target he sees? Well I guess we will have to wait and find out now won't we?

Tell me something: in your own words, what makes the Joker an interesting villain to you? Is it how he kills people? Why he does it? How the Joker views the world or human beings in general?

You could probably answer that, and if you do, know that we have yet to know the answers to these questions for the main character for Hatred. That one trailer doesn't tell us his motivations for his actions. We have been given many comics, movies, games, etc. Of content for the Joker.

Pretty unfair to judge the character here as "oh he just wants to shoot people and stuff for no reason" without context or knowing more about the game first.

Ab-so-lutely. You're totally correct.

But that being said, the first impression is everything, and the first impression Hatred gave is one that screams, "Yo this game is DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMB". To the point where it really did feel like a Frog Fractions-esque style of misdirection. I was kind of expecting the Sunset Overdrive marketing guy to jump in through the window and shoot him.

At the end of the day, we'll see if there's more to this "protagonist" than what the trailer gives off. But from the wording on their website and the trailer itself, I don't think he's going to be anything except a vessel for mindless destruction. Which is, at best, boring.

That's another good question. It is yet again another justification for actions from characters in media.

If the character is interesting, "OMG HE'S SO BADASS and Dark! I love his "why so serious" line!". If the character is boring or the person that finds that character boring does the same exact actions as the former character, "OMG HE'S SO REPULSIVE! HE JUST GOES OUT AND KILLS PEOPLE LIKE A PSYCHOPATH! What were the creators thinking!?"

Wait, are we actually talking about the Joker?

I mean, Joker is a compelling villain because his MO usually goes WAY PAST killing people. His end game is complete misdirection, pulling the foundations of order down to incite chaos and anarchy simply because (usually anyway, different sources have different methodologies but...) he finds it fun. He is funny, he is terrifying, he is human enough where you can identify with him until he does something completely unthinkable and, sometimes literally, rolls around in the aftermath. He is a liar that tells everyone the truth, he's...super interesting. He doesn't go out on murder sprees, usually he kills one or two people and uses the fear of how he killed those people to lock millions of bystanders to the floor.

He is a really fun villain to watch.

I don't think we're going to get that in Hatred. Maybe we will...but I doubt it.

 

[keit4]

The trailer really made me feel uncomfortable... I find it tasteless and excessive.