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[Zap Rowsdower]

24 hours later after hearing the announcement...

Yep still a terrible fucking idea and reading that interview did nothing for me. Premise is just idiotic on so many levels. If this affected global history then chances are we all would be speaking German. The USA wouldn't have had an united front against the Germans in WW2 and it's possible the South joined the Axis. Hell, a second civil war (presumably post 1940s) would have wrecked the US economy and we certainly wouldn't be the world's sole superpower.

This is just so damn stupid.

The South wouldn't even lasted all that along if they won. The Confederate government was laughably weak and they would probably have dissolved into their own civil war eventually because its not like secessionist Southern states would respect a federal government even if it was their own. They'd probably be global pariahs because outright chattel slavery wasn't acceptable anymore because colonialism became the more acceptable and profitable form of horrific exploitation. They barely had any real industry to speak of and entirely relying on agriculture wouldn't save them in the new industrial age, especially because European countries were exploiting their colonies for cheap agricultural goods that the Confederates couldn't compete with.They'd just be a backwater failed state and America as a whole would probably not be a global superpower anytime soon.

 

[EVIL]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

Is it really that hard for you to grasp that black people would have zero interest in a show about if they were still slaves in modern times.

 

[whipihguh]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

From what I've read in the thread, the writers have had some pretty tone-deaf stuff in Game of Thrones. That compounded with how difficult it would be to pull of an alternate history CSA/Union (both from a believable "what-if" historical standpoint and it's message on modern race relations in America) has left a lot of people really doubtful on them pulling this concept off well. The concept itself isn't bad in a vacuum, but the minds behind it leave a lot of concern.

And even on the off chance it is done well, there still is the issue with the alt-right in America today, and how they'd likely use things in the show to reinforce their own ideological fantasies. Having a series where black people are literally being dehumanized isn't exactly gonna be all that appealing except to a very specific subset of people, with a vast majority of them liking it for the absolute worst reasons. Political and racial conditions in the country right now rightfully leave this to be a sore topic, with Trump running the country and his miscellaneous parade of loyal white supremacist fuckwits feeling emboldened nationwide.

 

[Korey]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

Confederate stuff is way more relevant to Americans than WW2. So it hits closer to home.

 

[watershed]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

Call me when violence against black bodies stops being used for other people's entertainment and education.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

Nazi sympathizing parties don't win state elections in Germany and the largest center-right party didn't largely defend the flying of the Nazi flag until two years ago.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That interview was an incredible amount of text to say absolutely nothing.


That they dodged almost every concern and just spoke in circles makes me now even less confident

 

[Aytumious]

Nazi sympathizing parties don't win state elections in Germany and the largest center-right party didn't largely defend the flying of the Nazi flag until two years ago.

That reads like a good argument for why the timing for the show is excellent rather than why it shouldn't exist. It isn't hard to imagine how a show like this could reflect some hard truths back into the faces of Americans about the world we currently live in and how we got here.

So I read one of the interviews in the interim.

Another concern some have raised is that a show like this could end up as almost pornography or wish-fulfillment for white supremacists and the alt-right. What's your reaction to that worry about a show where the South won the Civil War.

MS: I think that [using the word] ”winning" creates the wrong image. [In the world of Confederate], it was a stand-still. They maintain their position, the North maintains theirs. What people need to recognize is, and it makes me really want to get into the show: The shit is alive and real today. I think people have got to stop pretending that slavery was something that happened and went away. The shit is affecting people in the present day. And it's easy for folks to hide from it, because sometimes you're not able to map it out, especially with how insidious racism has become. But everyone knows that with Trump coming into power, a bunch of shit that had always been there got resurfaced. So the idea that this would be pornography goes back to people imagining whips and plantations. What they need to be imagining is how fucked up things are today, and a story that allows us to now dramatize it in a more tangible matter.

Exactly.

They may not pull it off, but I think they have the correct approach.

 

[HStallion]

That reads like a good argument for why the timing for the show is excellent rather than why it shouldn't exist. It isn't hard to imagine how a show like this could reflect some hard truths back into the faces of Americans about the world we currently live in and how we got here.

So I read one of the interviews in the interim.



Exactly.

They may not pull it off, but I think they have the correct approach.

Or it gives them some awesome slave owners to like and go,"Hey these guys weren't so bad. See that one guy even treats his slaves nicely!" In this political climate I don't really trust people to become more supportive of BLM or anything even close to that but to just double down on waving Confederate flags around and lots of dog whistles.

 

[zelas]

These guys in the interview not seeming to understand the backlash, or even their own missteps with GoT, isn't giving me hope.

 

[Black Republican]

like i said, i still wanna see it anyways, i expect fuckery on every level

 

[AuthenticM]

The interview makes me feel better about the show.

We'll see. I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The interview makes me feel better about the show.

We'll see. I am cautiously optimistic.

I feel the same way. Not American, and not black though, so I may not be the best person to speak, but I'll watch it few episodes

 

[Zabka]

I love GoT but these guys have big blind spots. The Jaime/Cersei rape scene is the best example.

"It wasn't rape, look how she grabbed the table cloth"

Stupid.

 

[HStallion]

I love GoT but these guys have big blind spots. The Jaime/Cersei rape scene is the best example.

"It wasn't rape, look how she grabbed the table cloth"

Stupid.

That and the whole added rape scene with Ramsey because we needed more confirmation about what a piece of shit he is.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Theyre planning on making a show where the south successfully pertained the use of slaves and managed to form a successful government enough to survive not one but three civil wars

Yeah this isnt going to have racists frothing at the mouth or anything with their delusions.

 

[Effect]

That interview did nothing for me. I can only hope this gets killed quickly once the first few scenes are filmed or the first scripts are read over. I imagine it should be easy to tell how fucked up this ends up being pretty quickly. It comes down to how much shit does HBO want to deal within the end.

There is no way their intentions don't backfire on them. I can not all imagine a scenario where that doesn't happen. Racist, etc are going to be dancing in the streets loving this.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Theyre planning on making a show where the south successfully pertained the use of slaves and managed to form a successful government enough to survive not one but three civil wars

Yeah this isnt going to have racists frothing at the mouth or anything with their delusions.

And survive for 152 years with all that in tact.

 

[Zabka]

That and the whole added rape scene with Ramsey because we needed more confirmation about what a piece of shit he is.

With Sansa? I wouldn't consider that added since it happens to a different character in the books. Much worse actually.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Another concern some have raised is that a show like this could end up as almost pornography or wish-fulfillment for white supremacists and the alt-right. What’s your reaction to that worry about a show where the South won the Civil War.

MS: I think that [using the word] “winning” creates the wrong image. [In the world of Confederate], it was a stand-still. They maintain their position, the North maintains theirs.

HOW IS THAT ANYTHING BUT A WIN?!?!?

 

[HStallion]

With Sansa? I wouldn't consider that added since it happens to a different character in the books. Much worse actually.

Except we never see it what-so-ever in the book and its barely talked about after its brought up. There was nothing like what happened in the show.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I don't fully understand the outcry against this alternative history piece. no one was against "man in the tall castle" for example. I personally think that the more discussion trough popular media channels like TV shows there is about racism etc the better it is. visual mediums like these get messages across better then anything else and I think its important to explore a "what if" and how that would have changed the world and highlight the obvious problems with such a future warning against it.

alternative truth or sarcasm?

 

[excelsiorlef]

What does it say about someone's mindset when they think the only way they can touch on actual racist issues in modern society and the oppression of black folk in America in fiction is by conceiving a story where they were never freed and have remained slaves for 150+ years.

Like don't try and sell me that this is about having a message to tell. I don't buy it.

Handmaiden's Tale makes sense, it's about regression of women's rights in the future... which ties into the risk of a post Roe v Wade world.... but this? This is fucking nonsense

 

[SolarPowered]

That reads like a good argument for why the timing for the show is excellent rather than why it shouldn't exist. It isn't hard to imagine how a show like this could reflect some hard truths back into the faces of Americans about the world we currently live in and how we got here.

So I read one of the interviews in the interim.

Exactly.

They may not pull it off, but I think they have the correct approach.

Welp, my expectations went from 0 to 3. Better than nothing, I guess. I was personally hoping that they'd go with an alternate history where the South and North merely separated instead of one gobbling the other up (can't even imagine how the South could conquer the north). Honestly, I'm more interested in seeing what a Yankee USA would look like without Southern politics, culture and racism (the north has got it's own flavor in that regard).

 

[ClosingADoor]

This sounds like a show that will mostly have shock value. Look at how terrible this is! Look at how awful that is!

With most shows that wouldn't be such a problem, but considering the real history and current political climate, it comes across as tasteless.

I can't really see what kind of interesting stories a show like this would tell, or what new perspectives it would bring. And then we are just left with a show for entertainment, to which the subject matter is not really fit.

If they want to tackle the subject of slavery, put it in the actual historic setting with a big budget civil war tv show.

 

[excelsiorlef]

HOW IS THAT ANYTHING BUT A WIN?!?!?

Don't you see they never got the privilege to be a part of the United States! They had to settle for keeping black folk as property for 150 years, and maintain their own culture, so it's a draw really.

This sounds like a show that will mostly have shock value. Look at how terrible this is! Look at how awful that is!

With most shows that wouldn't be such a problem, but considering the real history and current political climate, it comes across as tasteless.

I can't really see what kind of interesting stories a show like this would tell, or what new perspectives it would bring. And then we are just left with a show for entertainment, to which the subject matter is not really fit.

If they want to tackle the subject of slavery, put it in the actual historic setting with a big budget civil war tv show.

But they aren't interested in tackling slavery, they claim to want to examine unspoken of issues of racism in modern society (like they think they have some insight to offer that no one has ever thought of before.... which is almost always untrue) .... slavery is just a narrative framing.... That's why this whole thing is fucking absurd

 

[GonzoCR]

Given that most of what is good about GoT is in spite of D&D and not because of them, and mostly when they're following the source material, I have huge doubts about this. Seems like a terrible idea in all honesty.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I love the Spellman's and am happy they are involved. Great interview, and I especially liked this:

What people need to recognize is, and it makes me really want to get into the show: The shit is alive and real today. I think people have got to stop pretending that slavery was something that happened and went away. The shit is affecting people in the present day. And it’s easy for folks to hide from it, because sometimes you’re not able to map it out, especially with how insidious racism has become. But everyone knows that with Trump coming into power, a bunch of shit that had always been there got resurfaced.

But they aren't interested in tackling slavery, they claim to want to examine unspoken of issues of racism in modern society (like they think they have some insight to offer that no one has ever thought of before.... which is almost always untrue) .... slavery is just a narrative framing.... That's why this whole thing is fucking absurd

They claimed to want to examine unspoken issues? I don't remember seeing that in the interview.

The fact the mere idea of this is causing people to get tense and grumpy makes me more confident this show needs to happen.

 

[Samara]

What? What the hell is wrong with American History X? It is an all time great movie.

I assume you're gonna tell me how problematic it is, somehow, for some reason. How and when are the despicable people in that movie glorified? Unless you think Derek's redemption is not possible and/or bullshit.

I'm not talking about the movie itself, but the visuals. A man making love to his gf on a bed with nazi imagery, killing POC in a rampage and the smug face at his arrest complete with choir music.

Not the whole movie.

 

[ClosingADoor]

But they aren't interested in tackling slavery, they claim to want to examine unspoken of issues of racism in modern society (like they think they have some insight to offer that no one has ever thought of before.... which is almost always untrue) .... slavery is just a narrative framing.... That's why this whole thing is fucking absurd

Yeah, I don't really get how showing actual slavery in a current day setting is going to examine issues of modern day racism. They say it will not be "whips and plantations" but actual slavery with owning people will always be some form of that, since you are directly exploiting people for their labor to profit from it. You might replace the whips with another thing and the plantation is a factory or whatever, but the idea is the same.

Strange indeed. Of course there is no script yet, so who knows, but like you say, I can't see how this will offer some new insight into the issue.

 

[Cyframe]

People did raise issues with that show on Amazon and a Book series called Save The Pearls. Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean you can say "why wasn't anyone talking about it" when they were.

The writers of The Good Wife don't really inspire a lot of confidence with me after what they did to a character named Kalinda (Archie Panjabi). Took away her agency and made her something of an antagonist when it wasn't necessary.

We already live in a world that is very sympathetic to the south. We still have confederate statues and memorabilia that are sold and popular. We still have slavery with an example of prisoners being forced to fight Calfornia wildfire for example. Prison labor is a thing, unpaid workers, a big portion of which are nonviolent offenders. Police kill African Americans and other minorities with impunity.

With the current state of affairs, I don't think the idea is novel. They have the right to make it but others have the right to raise questions with the premise. This is not going to be some educational revelation.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Or as Jeff Sessions calls it "Feel Good T.V."

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I'm not talking about the movie itself, but the visuals. A man making love to his gf on a bed with nazi imagery, killing POC in a rampage and the smug face at his arrest complete with choir music.

Not the whole movie.

Definitely. Skinheads love American History X, because it is easy to ignore a lot of the narrative and focus on the imagery that frames Ed's life as sexy and masculine. (I can't remember his character's name)

 

[HStallion]

Or as Jeff Sessions calls it "Feel Good T.V."

Maybe they can make Richard Spencer the sympathetic slave owner

 

[iPaul93]

Sounds interesting.I'm in.

 

[Lime]

https://twitter.com/desusandmero/status/888235863045361664

 

[Vincent Alexander]

https://twitter.com/desusandmero/status/888235863045361664

Lmao. "Oh, it's a documentary." Good shit.

 

[Zelenogorsk]

I think D&D are too white to do a concept like this justice.

 

[Slayven]

People bring up the man in the high castle, but folks have dealt better with WW2 then they have the Civil War.

Being from blood that fought in the Confederacy is still considered something to be proud of, hell it use to automatically get you into office.

Is there a United Daughters of The Nazi i don't know about? One that is taken seriously

 

[Beefy]

That interview was an incredible amount of text to say absolutely nothing.


That they dodged almost every concern and just spoke in circles makes me now even less confident

Yep

 

[The Artisan]

what are the chances that they'll come to their senses and just decide to do something else

 

[Kinsei]

what are the chances that they'll come to their senses and just decide to do something else

0

 

[excelsiorlef]

https://twitter.com/desusandmero/status/888235863045361664

Their version of the GoT theme song fucking hell funny...

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I truly want this show to happen. I want them to take racists who already exist today and put them into a narrative where we see exactly what their words and racist atttitudes mean. Like the Daughters of the Confederates someone posted above...Make these old, white women have slaves, and cram their character's mouths with the same nonsense they spout today, and let the audience see that no matter what southern pride shit they are trying to hide under, they are advocating slavery and supportung southern traitors. So give them slaves, and show them as the monstrous pieces of shit they are.

Not sure that ramble made sense. On my phone.

 

[DeviantBoi]

If they wanted to do an alternate history/universe story, the should have done Temeraire - the Napoleonic Wars with dragons.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The interview update made me feel even worse about this. These guys are not smart or insightful or conscientious enough to do anything nuanced or satisfactory here. It's just dumb entertainment — and this isn't material you can afford to slop out dumb entertainment about. The fact that they haven't even written scripts before blowing out PR about how cool it's going to be is nuts to me.

 

[HStallion]

I truly want this show to happen. I want them to take racists who already exist today and put them into a narrative where we see exactly what their words and racist atttitudes mean. Like the Daughters of the Confederates someone posted above...Make these old, white women have slaves, and cram their character's mouths with the same nonsense they spout today, and let the audience see that no matter what southern pride shit they are trying to hide under, they are advocating slavery and supportung southern traitors. So give them slaves, and show them as the monstrous pieces of shit they are.

Not sure that ramble made sense. On my phone.

Problem is the people that should take that to heart will instead find characters that they can relate to. If stuff like BLM and Obama couldn't reach them I'm not expecting a TV show will.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Problem is the people that should take that to heart will instead find characters that they can relate to. If stuff like BLM and Obama couldn't reach them I'm not expecting a TV show will.

That is definitely the biggest holdup. In writing realistic characters, you have to get into the banality of evil. But in doing so, you will for sure have characters with slaves that we are relating to in aspects. The only way to avoid that is to not worry about nuanced, real characters and you make every southerner with a slave a frothing-at-the-mouth piece of shit. But then if they are cardboard characters....

Yeah. Not sure how the hell to get around that.

 

[Infinite]

Yeah not fucking with this at all.