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HBO prepping bombshell Scientology film from Oscar winner Alex Gibney

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F

fierrotlepou

Member
scientology_027.jpg
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Bring it on.
 
M

Mrs. Manky

Banned
I'd be more concerned about a new Operation Snow White. I'm expecting infiltration, sabotage, and dragging everyone involved through the mud.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
It is pretty sad that a religion fights so many battles in court.

That said, I'd much rather have a religion that fights in court than one that fights with bombs & guns, so it could be worse.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
speculawyer said:
It is pretty sad that a religion fights so many battles in court.

That said, I'd much rather have a religion that fights in court than one that fights with bombs & guns, so it could be worse.
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Scientology is not a religion god damn.


If in this thread a Scientology defense force rises I will lose any faith I had in GAF
 
T

Takamura-San

Member
Makes me wish that The Master had the balls to call it Scientology. Looking forward to watching this and hope these new revelations are substantial.
 
L

L4DANathan

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
My reaction to this is similar to my feelings on The Master. The reality can never be as absurd as the 'parody' portrayed in South Park. There is nothing left to surprise. Everyone already knows these are incredibly weird people.
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That South Park episode was the best. I don't think they'll be fighting South Park in making fun of it though, more just documenting it and fleshing out some details.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
ReturnOfTheRAT said:
Wait, who claims that it isn't?
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Typically the claim is that it's not a religion but a cult, with the idea that anything classified as "religion" is acceptable and tolerable and anything classified as a "cult" is not. In another sense, a cult is just a subtype of religion, but that's not typically the way people mean it.
 
T

The Silver

Member
South Park episode was completely mind blowing, when it had the flashing words that said "this is what they really believe" I still couldn't believe it.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Mad respect for HBO having the balls to pick something like this up, but goddamn I think it's going to be fucking unpleasant for everyone involved in this for the next year or more. I wish them all the best of luck, and I'm certainly interested in the end product.
 
W

wanderingprostheyltite

Member
Excited to see this, scientology is fascinating as shit, hell, all cults in general. I remember reading a lengthy article expose on what goes on in their re-education centers, holy shit what a nuthouse that place is. People living in office trailers, sleeping on the floor, having lord of the flies level fights and essentially being prisoners there until their "re-education" is complete. It confounds the fuck out of me that this shit is going on in the US. I know they're powerful as all get out legal wise, but some of their shenanigans are bonkers, like Project Snow White:

Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's internal name for a major criminal conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members, in more than 30 countries.[1] It was the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

Sounds like something out of a spy thriller, had no idea this was a thing until about a year or two ago. Very curious what new info might be revealed from the HBO doc.
 
L

legend166

Member
Cyan said:
Typically the claim is that it's not a religion but a cult, with the idea that anything classified as "religion" is acceptable and tolerable and anything classified as a "cult" is not. In another sense, a cult is just a subtype of religion, but that's not typically the way people mean it.
Click to expand...

There's a reason why people view certain groups as cults and others as religions that has nothing to do with how acceptable they find their belief system, but rather how that belief system is acted out in the world.

Take Scientology vs Christianity on a few basic points.

- Take the beginnings of each religion. Christianity was started by a small group of Jewish people who endured hundreds of years of horrific persecutions from both Jewish and Roman society before becoming accepted. Considering there's no proof that any of those people gained any real power or wealth from being involved in Christianity, it's hard to argue that they had ulterior motives outside a genuine belief in what they taught. Alternatively, L. Ron Hubbard is quoted numerous times saying that the best way for him to become rich was to start a religion.

- I am a Christian of the reformed baptist persuasion. If you ask, I will tell you exactly what that means, every single detail of my theology. If you ask I will give you a Bible, the basis for my faith. I can show you confessions of faith from hundreds of years ago outlining the major doctrinal teachings of each major denomination in Christianity. There is absolutely no secrecy around my faith or the faith of the major Christian denominations. You can visit my church any time you like Alternatively, Scientology is completely shrouded in secrecy. There's different 'levels' of beliefs. All that stuff about thetans and Xenu was only ever found out due to leaks and whistle blowers. The Church of Scientology does not advertise what it believes and will not tell you unless you reach a certain level of their faith. Which brings me to my next point.....

- Most (I say most, as unfortunately there's a large number of Christian churches today who don't follow this. To me, that's the encroaching of cultist practices into the church) Christian churches do not require any monetary contributions of any kind to participate in the religion. That's not to say they don't ask for funds, because like everything, they need a certain amount of money to simply exist. You can go along to most churches, never give a single penny, and still partake to the same extent as the person who may be giving $1000 a week. You can still partake in the sacraments (in the Protestant case, communion and baptism), you can still listen to the sermons, you can still sing the hymns, and you can still have fellowship with the other church-goers. This is patently not the case in Scientology. Monetary contributions are required to participate. You can't join unless you give them thousands of dollars for an audit. You can't progress unless you continually provide thousands of dollars. There is an enormous amount of evidence of people being extorted and blackmailed for ridiculous amounts of money.

There are real and significant differences between Christianity and Scientology that extend way beyond "people only accept Christianity because it's 2000 years old, whereas Scientology is new", and "I'm a Christian and therefore Christianity is good, but I'm not a Scientology so Scientology is bad".
 
C

Cyan

Banned
legend166 said:
There's a reason why people view certain groups as cults and others as religions that has nothing to do with how acceptable they find their belief system, but rather how that belief system is acted out in the world.
Click to expand...

That's really not what I was saying with that post. The dude I was responding to asked whether (and implicitly why) anyone would say it wasn't a religion. I was saying that yes, people would say that it's not a religion but a cult, and that the thing we're meant to infer from calling it a cult is that it's bad and shouldn't be tolerated.
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
My reaction to this is similar to my feelings on The Master. The reality can never be as absurd as the 'parody' portrayed in South Park. There is nothing left to surprise. Everyone already knows these are incredibly weird people.
Click to expand...

Operation Snow White, Sea Org, Fair Game policy, their private Secret Police and the reeducation/detainment camps... I dunno, the reality isn't just weird, it's scary.

EDIT:

wanderingprostheyltite said:
Excited to see this, scientology is fascinating as shit, hell, all cults in general. I remember reading a lengthy article expose on what goes on in their re-education centers, holy shit what a nuthouse that place is. People living in office trailers, sleeping on the floor, having lord of the flies level fights and essentially being prisoners there until their "re-education" is complete. It confounds the fuck out of me that this shit is going on in the US. I know they're powerful as all get out legal wise, but some of their shenanigans are bonkers, like Project Snow White:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

Sounds like something out of a spy thriller, had no idea this was a thing until about a year or two ago. Very curious what new info might be revealed from the HBO doc.
Click to expand...

Exactly this...
 
L

legend166

Member
Cyan said:
That's really not what I was saying with that post. The dude I was responding to asked whether (and implicitly why) anyone would say it wasn't a religion. I was saying that yes, people would say that it's not a religion but a cult, and that the thing we're meant to infer from calling it a cult is that it's bad and shouldn't be tolerated.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna be honest, I realised half way through I wasn't really responding to what you we saying, but I was too far in and just kept going, haha. Someone will eventually come in and make the argument I was arguing against :p
 
C

Cyan

Banned
legend166 said:
I'm gonna be honest, I realised half way through I wasn't really responding to what you we saying, but I was too far in and just kept going, haha. Someone will eventually come in and make the argument I was arguing against :p
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Got it, no worries. I think your arguments are pretty solid. ;)
 
W

wanderingprostheyltite

Member
I like how PT Anderson gave a private screening of The Master to Tom Cruise to see what he thought. He had issue with a few things, and they changed fuck all lol. Almost like Anderson waving the movie in front of his face saying "You see how fucking crazy you people are?"

Speaking of cults, one of the more fascinating documentaries I've seen on one recently is The Source Family. Started out as a health food restaurant in San Francisco in the early 70s and recruited a bunch of hippie types through the restaurant as wait staff, cooks, etc. Turned into a full blown cult apart from the restaurant, you've got the followers thinking the leader, Father Yod, is basically God. Cue in the free love partner swapping (not at their request btw, this was an order of Yod's), sex orgy occult rituals, and all manner of psychedelic drug use during yoga exercises and rituals. It's a fascinating watch, especially as they interview a bunch of former members that still believe this guy was the shit, as well as ones that were extremely damaged emotionally and psychologically from the experience. You can stream it on Netflix.
 
D

duckroll

Member
wanderingprostheyltite said:
I like how PT Anderson gave a private screening of The Master to Tom Cruise to see what he thought. He had issue with a few things, and they changed fuck all lol. Almost like Anderson waving the movie in front of his face saying "You see how fucking crazy you people are?"
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Do we know what these issues were? It's pretty interesting that he did this. I doubt it was really to rub it in his face or anything, he probably actually wanted an honest opinion, but if he felt that the concerns raised were non-issues then he is also free to ignore them and not change anything.
 
K

kneePat

Member
legend166 said:
There's a reason why people view certain groups as cults and others as religions that has nothing to do with how acceptable they find their belief system, but rather how that belief system is acted out in the world.

- I am a Christian of the reformed baptist persuasion. If you ask, I will tell you exactly what that means, every single detail of my theology. If you ask I will give you a Bible, the basis for my faith. I can show you confessions of faith from hundreds of years ago outlining the major doctrinal teachings of each major denomination in Christianity. There is absolutely no secrecy around my faith or the faith of the major Christian denominations. You can visit my church any time you like Alternatively, Scientology is completely shrouded in secrecy. There's different 'levels' of beliefs. All that stuff about thetans and Xenu was only ever found out due to leaks and whistle blowers. The Church of Scientology does not advertise what it believes and will not tell you unless you reach a certain level of their faith. Which brings me to my next point.....

- Most (I say most, as unfortunately there's a large number of Christian churches today who don't follow this. To me, that's the encroaching of cultist practices into the church) Christian churches do not require any monetary contributions of any kind to participate in the religion. That's not to say they don't ask for funds, because like everything, they need a certain amount of money to simply exist. You can go along to most churches, never give a single penny, and still partake to the same extent as the person who may be giving $1000 a week. You can still partake in the sacraments (in the Protestant case, communion and baptism), you can still listen to the sermons, you can still sing the hymns, and you can still have fellowship with the other church-goers. This is patently not the case in Scientology. Monetary contributions are required to participate. You can't join unless you give them thousands of dollars for an audit. You can't progress unless you continually provide thousands of dollars. There is an enormous amount of evidence of people being extorted and blackmailed for ridiculous amounts of money.
Click to expand...

No true Christian, eh?

Mormons are also reformed Christians. Are they not? They hide lots of things, ask for 10% of your money, and don't freely let you in to their temples.
 
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