Yeah, I just noticed.
Hearthstone announces Heroic Tavern Brawl, $9.99/1000 gold pseudo-tourny mode(1 week)
- Thread starter SodiumBenzoate
- Start date
Delusibeta
Banned
This is effectively Blizzard lifting Magic the Gathering Online's leagues system wholesale.
With that said, I don't agree with Hari's assessment that this is gambling, for basically the same reason the Arena isn't gambling: skill is required to get anywhere. Hell, I'll argue that this mode is even less like gambling that the Arena, because you know precisely what cards that you have available to make your deck out of (everything you own).
With that said, I don't agree with Hari's assessment that this is gambling, for basically the same reason the Arena isn't gambling: skill is required to get anywhere. Hell, I'll argue that this mode is even less like gambling that the Arena, because you know precisely what cards that you have available to make your deck out of (everything you own).
Do you feel this is demonstrably different than the Arena stuff that's been in the game since launch? The only way I really see this as different is that you stand to take more of a loss if you crap out on this thing. I'd be fine with that as long as they make that clear and market it to the proper audience.
Admittedly, since I'm a Magic player, the idea of a paid entry constructed tournament with top heavy prize structure is the most normal thing in the world for me.
KiefbladeMaster
Member
As far as I was aware, the counter(s) (thought it was only freeze mage) to midrange shaman get wrecked by almost anything else. I don't think that's feasible in the current meta. Doesn't midrange shammy have like a 70% win rate atm?
OT: My buddy is way into arena play, I'll be interested to hear his thoughts on this after work. The payout is definitely nice, I'm just recently starting back up though so this is not for me.
Trying to get my card collection up.Mobius and pet octopus
Member
No... more like 53-55%. 70% winrate would be the most broken winrate ever.
edit:
Looks like my first answer was right, 55% is accurate. http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-22/
KLoWn
Member
Only cards you own but you should totally be able to just pick from every standard card. That's a good point.
deadscreensky
Member
With some of the comments in this and the Gears 4 microtransactions thread I'm convinced a lot of people on GAF don't even know what gambling actually is. (Hint: betting money on an uncertain outcome is literally gambling.)
Kind of sucks that the rest of us lose our Tavern Brawl for the week. I'm sure Blizzard could have come up with a different way to remove gold from players.
Kind of sucks that the rest of us lose our Tavern Brawl for the week. I'm sure Blizzard could have come up with a different way to remove gold from players.
As far as I was aware, the counter(s) (thought it was only freeze mage) to midrange shaman get wrecked by almost anything else. I don't think that's feasible in the current meta. Doesn't midrange shammy have like a 70% win rate atm?
OT: My buddy is way into arena play, I'll be interested to hear his thoughts on this after work. The payout is definitely nice, I'm just recently starting back up though so this is not for me.
Control Warrior is a counter (and also hard counters Freeze Mage). Also no deck has a 70% winrate, the best ones are slightly above 55%.
Impact of skill has very little to do with the definition of gambling. If the there is a wager (gold), a reward (packs), and the outcome is uncertain (it is), then it is gambling. Even if it is very skill based and favors your heavily.
If someone wants to argue against this (why is beyond me), then explain why gambling with in-game currency through a tournament system that rewards good play is a bad thing. I see no reason why it is. People do this in all sorts of games and sports.
This is nothing new either. This is Arena mode for constructed players. It's the first time constructed has real rewards.
What? Breakeven for arena is like, 3 wins.
KiefbladeMaster
Member
Thanks for the link! Still, though, that is really high. I'd be nervous as hell going in with almost anything else.
Ah, good to know, I main druid and hunter so I'm not super familiar with the meta atm. I only recently got back into it after the introduction of standard play (which is a godsend).
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Streamers don't play shaman decks because their viewers don't want to see them play that, but when the most skilled players do play for tournament money, almost all of them bring a "lul shaman always wins" deck with them. It's a very difficult deck to counter.
When people do find a way to counter the meta, like with Aggro freeze mage, it's only after a ton of testing and failing. You can't do that with locking in a deck at $10 per try.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Maybe this will pave the way for a more dedicated tournament format mode. The mode has me interested but 1000 gold is a hefty commitment to make.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
Not sure who this is for really. If you are the kind of player capable of getting 12 wins in 15 matches in standard then you probably don't need the gold and dust. If you are the level of player that struggles to get past rank 5 then you won't be getting anywhere near 10-12 wins (ie. where imo the entry fee becomes worth it).
The game has been crying out for a proper tournament mode though so if this is a testing ground for that being a thing, I've no real complaints.
The game has been crying out for a proper tournament mode though so if this is a testing ground for that being a thing, I've no real complaints.
chillybright
Banned
oh they updated the post with this:
so 5 wins to get ~1000 gold value (6 packs, 220 gold, 220 dust)
The jump from 11 to 12 wins is insane.
This screams "JACKPOT".
A simple tournament mode would be fun! Locking it behind an exorbitant entry fee is not so fun. Replacing a casual player's most reliable way of earning free packs is kind of shitty, even just for one week.
Between this and Overwatch's time-limited loot crate events, Blizzard is being kind of gross this year.
Edit: didn't see the full rewards table before posting. Super gross.
RecRoulette
Member
I don't mind the high cost of entry. Keeps casual folks out because of the high risk, so the level of play is higher (I consider myself casual).
Also means that people are going to go through hell to hit 12
Also means that people are going to go through hell to hit 12
Give War A Chance
Member
This is super interesting.
It's basically a format where you make your best deck to do battle with what you would assume the meta would be... and tavern brawl is the mode where they try new things out...
Considering this is for the hardcorest of hardcore Hearthstone players, the entry fee is pretty much negligible... I can't think of any streamer I've watched in the past 6 months that didn't already have 1000g or couldn't run arena for a day and get 1000g. $10 is also nothing for the people they're targeting, as most of them have done the 40 pack deal with every new card expansion...
Interesting to see what becomes of this and what this is the precursor to. I'll be watching a whole lot of Twitch for this specifically.
I'm too bad at the game for this to even matter for my playing enjoyment, lol.
This is a free game. At least you have a leg to stand on for Overwatch, though it's 100% cosmetic and doesn't affect gameplay at all.
If you choose to not partake in this *one week event* and instead just play the game you have, you can just earn a pack. People getting real entitled when it comes to playing free games lately. Real weird to see.
It's basically a format where you make your best deck to do battle with what you would assume the meta would be... and tavern brawl is the mode where they try new things out...
Considering this is for the hardcorest of hardcore Hearthstone players, the entry fee is pretty much negligible... I can't think of any streamer I've watched in the past 6 months that didn't already have 1000g or couldn't run arena for a day and get 1000g. $10 is also nothing for the people they're targeting, as most of them have done the 40 pack deal with every new card expansion...
Interesting to see what becomes of this and what this is the precursor to. I'll be watching a whole lot of Twitch for this specifically.
I'm too bad at the game for this to even matter for my playing enjoyment, lol.
Lol, what year are you living in?
This is a free game. At least you have a leg to stand on for Overwatch, though it's 100% cosmetic and doesn't affect gameplay at all.
If you choose to not partake in this *one week event* and instead just play the game you have, you can just earn a pack. People getting real entitled when it comes to playing free games lately. Real weird to see.
Forerunner
Member
12 wins with Priest.
quackamole
Member
Anybody who is not a great player going in will just become food for the actual great players. Aka if you are average, avoid getting robbed and just watch your favorite streamer getting robbed and salty .
KLoWn
Member
Ugh.. People these days.
2016 I guess? What a stupid question.
My point is that this is a remarkably worse value proposition than regular arena, with a much higher cost of entry. It could've been a fun new mode for people to play competitively in a shorter "run" than the standard 30-day season, but instead it comes across as an aggressive gold sink.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
This brawl is less about getting value out of your gold and more about competition. If you're interesting in just farming gold/cards, just play arena. You're more guaranteed to get value out of the gold you spend. This is for the people who want to try an round robin type system with pretty good stakes.
I don't really see the appeal in Hearthstone with higher stakes. (Isn't it fun how we've already started discussing this with gambling terminology?). I'd be a lot more interested in playing a constrcted tournament mode that didn't have such a high barrier to entry. If that means reducing the jackpot payout, then that would be fine with me.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
Now that the whole reward chart is out, anyone with less than 6 wins is going to be really mad.
And that's probably 70% of all players who participate. Yikes.
And that's probably 70% of all players who participate. Yikes.
you would have to be the dumbest person possible to do this btw. Clear example of how dumb HS is for RNG, I've played 5 games today, not once could I win a 50/50 with brawl, my opponent got back to back to back resses on ragnaros despite there being about 9 minions in the GY that were garbage and could easily be dealt with oh and lets not forget how my opponent magically have perfect curves when I mulligan my hand just to get back the cards I mulligan on my first draw.
Hell this is worse than playing a casino game. This one is goin gto be suckering in people to dump gold or to dump real world cash for terrible odds
Hell this is worse than playing a casino game. This one is goin gto be suckering in people to dump gold or to dump real world cash for terrible odds
StrategyFan
Member
saw a post about the math of this
it's a trap
i don't see any reason to run an event like this without the average (not median) payout breaking even
it's a trap
i don't see any reason to run an event like this without the average (not median) payout breaking even
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Well, the gambling talk is purely inaccurate but Blizzard has acknowledged the mode isn't meant to appeal to everyone. That is just like every other Tavern Brawl is not design to appeal to everyone.
I would like to see a cheaper version as well, but this one doesn't bother me. It's not a scam like others have called; without basis of course people actually called this a scam.
That is the breakdown typical of a tournament. top 3-4 slots get big payoffs. Everyone else gets chips compared to that.
Lets say 12 people play this in a tournament. They all contribute 1000 gold each. 12000 gold.
First place gets 50 packs, so that is 5000 gold right there, Plus another 1000 gold. And 1000 dust which is roughly equivalent to opening 10 packs, so another 1000 gold. 1 golden legendary is the dust equivalent of 32 packs if crafting, 16 packs if you dust it. First place gets 3 of those, so 48-96 or about 5k-10k gold. First place is rewarded with the equivalence of about 12,000 to 17,000 gold.
It's not really a trap. It's just unevenly distributed rewards. Is it a trap when they upfront tell you how far you need to progress to get what reward? Sounds like if you see the pit and decide to risk it and then you lose it, that's just your own fault.
Acerac
Banned
That's the trick to it, for somebody to get 12 wins there needs to be far more than 12 participants. Given that the math looks FAR less favorable.
It's a trap in the sense that it's something that is available to play for everyone who can even play Tavern Brawl (so like lvl20 on a class?). This shouldn't even be open to players who can't even get rank 5 every month. Someone will get shafted by it who doesn't know any better and will instantly uninstall the game.
It's like an open high stakes tournament that isn't exactly advertised as one.
It's a trap for the average player because A) it's still under the banner of the "Tavern Brawl" which is NOT a competitive mode B) it's formatted very similar to Arena despite being its own thing and C) rewards are heavily skewered towards high end performance versus just consistent/solid performance (so 60% win rate is actually not good in this). So people even people who can get Legendary may do poorly in this.
And the timing of this is peculiar, coming right before Blizzcon and the announcement of the next expansion. This is getting into tin foil, super pessimistic territory but they probably want people to spend their excess gold in this and then spend real money on the cards of the expansion.
It's like an open high stakes tournament that isn't exactly advertised as one.
It's a trap for the average player because A) it's still under the banner of the "Tavern Brawl" which is NOT a competitive mode B) it's formatted very similar to Arena despite being its own thing and C) rewards are heavily skewered towards high end performance versus just consistent/solid performance (so 60% win rate is actually not good in this). So people even people who can get Legendary may do poorly in this.
And the timing of this is peculiar, coming right before Blizzcon and the announcement of the next expansion. This is getting into tin foil, super pessimistic territory but they probably want people to spend their excess gold in this and then spend real money on the cards of the expansion.
Yeah, this is a waste of money and/or gold.
Don't do this unless you just have money to burn.
I sincerely doubt they will put that information in the game client.
Don't do this unless you just have money to burn.
I sincerely doubt they will put that information in the game client.
At first I was excited Hearthstone was finally getting a new mode/feature. That quickly disappeared.
Perhaps if it had a different set of rules each week (kind of like the actual brawl) and the entry wasn't so ridiculously priced. Perhaps something like 200 gold rather than 1000. Perhaps that could've been neat.
Spending that much gold just to play the same meta as always in the hope for some rewards I probably don't really want. Just seems pointless to me.
It feels like Blizzard is adding this because they're noticing less and less people spending actual money on expansions. One can save up 5000 gold or more by the time the next one releases.
This might encourage a few players to dump some of their gold and spend real money. I think I'll stick with the occasional old Arena myself and save up the rest of my gold for the next expansion though.
Disappointing, Blizzard.
Perhaps if it had a different set of rules each week (kind of like the actual brawl) and the entry wasn't so ridiculously priced. Perhaps something like 200 gold rather than 1000. Perhaps that could've been neat.
Spending that much gold just to play the same meta as always in the hope for some rewards I probably don't really want. Just seems pointless to me.
It feels like Blizzard is adding this because they're noticing less and less people spending actual money on expansions. One can save up 5000 gold or more by the time the next one releases.
This might encourage a few players to dump some of their gold and spend real money. I think I'll stick with the occasional old Arena myself and save up the rest of my gold for the next expansion though.
Disappointing, Blizzard.
zerokoolpsx
Member
Pay 1000g to face a bunch of midrange Shamans and go 0-3 for a pack? Yeah, I'm saving my gold too.
The Hearthstone community has always been like that, i dont understand why HS gets so much hate and negativity. Pretty much everything that Blizzard does is wrong according to the GAF, hearthpwn or reddit posts.
But hey, im a casual and just got my Mercy witch skin so i dont care lol
Well. If this mode would be free then we would be in a very different place, it is very clear the profit intentions of Blizzard in, well, everything. It isn't so hard to see why there is a lot of negativity about this mode in general.
Also, I would say negativity isn't always the case. The recent nerfs to some popular cards was a very well received news from all the comunities. Of course there was inherited negativity from individuals, but in general it was positive.
Also... as a casual who just started Overwatch I want to politely express my hatred for your luck. I want that witch mercy so much
baddvision
Member
so disappointing, tavern brawl is the only mode i play, guess i won't be playing at all this week
Maybe this helps: ITS GLORIOUS!