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[The Cartographer]

Looks like Bayo 3 is selling well in several Amazon regions.
The furious mob might have overplayed its hand and all the media coverage surrounding this controversy ironically turned out to be positive advertising for the game, but we'll see what the real sales look like in just a few weeks.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

im going to laugh if this gives more attention to the game instead of less

Ive been boycotting the series since the 1st game.

 

[daclynk]

think with this The BAYONETTA IP is forever cursed.
First People got Mad that Bayonetta was Nintendo WiiU exclusive even though Nintendo SAVED IT and now This. So sad the series is going down like this.

 

[Fuz]

So sad the series is going down

It's not.

 

[Odinnii]

What a non-story.
They made her an offer, she refused and everybody moved on.

They dont owe her money for work she didn't do. WTF is the outrage about?

 

[GigaBowser]

think with this The BAYONETTA IP is forever cursed.
First People got Mad that Bayonetta was Nintendo WiiU exclusive even though Nintendo SAVED IT and now This. So sad the series is going down like this.

Going down like what?

Thinking this is going to make any kind of real difference is hilariously dumb. If anything it brought the game more exposure.

The number of gamers sitting out for Helena will be in the dozens. Hundreds at best.

 

[01011001]

think with this The BAYONETTA IP is forever cursed.
First People got Mad that Bayonetta was Nintendo WiiU exclusive even though Nintendo SAVED IT and now This. So sad the series is going down like this.

free PR the game will most likely sell better due to this controversy since the name of the game is now everywhere and most people couldn't care less about the controversy

 

[brian0057]

Or, Jen said "$4000 for 12 hours work? Ok, sign me up. Will also be good to have this character added to my portfolio of roles and help me secure other opportunities. Hi Nintendo by the way"

That also works.

 

[Clear]

People are paid what they are worth, and enterprise value has nothing to do with it unless there's special circumstances. Like if Cindy Crawford quits being the name and spokeswoman for her bed and bath product lines then yeah someone can say she should be paid a ton to keep it going. If she quits, all the stuff becomes generic stuff. It's all or bust with a celeb tied to it.

What their "worth" is what they bring to the table in terms of eyeballs and paying customers. End of story.

The actual quality of their work is pretty much irrelevant; its more about profile than ability. In fact you could argue that ability is almost irrelevant when its as much about how (for example) famous this person is for their acting than how good each performance actually is judged to be.

Basically track-record has a perceived value, so you get really talented thespians like De Niro making more money from phoned-in performances in their later years, than they ever did from their greatest projects in the past!

It strikes me that where actors are concerned the key thing is parlaying that signature role/performance into something bigger, something more career-wise.

You'll notice that the voice talent who've complained about their treatment (Cihi, Hayter, and now Taylor) have never grown beyond the roles they became associated with. So they never had any leverage to command their future involvement. Leaving the people who actually own the property free to low-ball them or simply recast the role.

 

[Quezacolt]

Watching this video, it does seem like she wants more than what she's supposed to get for how much work she has to do.
4k for 4 days of seems really good

 

[nocsi]

It’s called “know your worth”. She knows her worth

 

[Gambit2483]

Yep, I'm officially done with this thread. Nothing but ignorance and indifference left...

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

I don't think its an "issue". There certainly nothing exploitative about being paid to sit in a booth and read somebody else's words for $250 an hour! I'd take a gig like that in a fucking heartbeat, because its pretty much the easiest of easy money jobs!

Personally, I don't think there is an issue either. I was just pointing out that if there *was* an issue here, it wouldn't be on Platinum for paying the industry standards rates for non-unionized voice actors. It would be an industry issue.

The question really being asked here is whether she deserves to be gratuitously overpaid for her work based solely on the overall value of the enterprise her performance is contributing to.

To which the obvious answer is, fuck no!

Her name is not instrumental in the profit potential of the game. Noone is buying the game for her presence. She isn't a celebrity, she isn't identified with the character she voices to the masses, and in fact is pretty much an unknown.

This is important as it puts her "below-the-line". And in that context, she's pretty handsomely compensated compared to most other "below-the-line" contributors which includes practically EVERYONE else involved in the production of the game.

There are remarkably few marketable game-devs across the entire industry. And the few that are of that stature are people like Kojima, who've literally built their personal brand across decades of success.

Agreed with you entirely.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Yep, I'm officially done with this thread. Nothing but ignorance and indifference left...

How so? That people are pointing out flaws in her arguments and looking at the industry wide normal wages for voice actors? That people suggest waiting for the full story before jumping to conclusions? That people aren't going out of their way to white knight for some random woman?

I think the ignorant one here is you, bucko.

 

[nikolino840]

I think all contracts should be negotiated on social media where the hive Mind should decide appropriate compensation. This is going great!!

Is not something new...how many times in the movies corps are afraid if someone tell the story at the newspaper of the morning

 

[Jsisto]

I make around 4k a month as a grocery store manager working 45 hours a week at a store that does over a million in sales a week. That involves helping manage over 150 employees and all that comes with that, unloading trucks and stocking shelves, dealing with customers and all their questions and complaints, plus so much more as you would imagine. I have to be physically fit, patient, have good problem solving and conflict resolution skills. I like my job and am satisfied with what I am paid. I provide an important service to the community by providing food and jobs.

Im sorry, but she can kiss my fucking ass with this self entitled whining. I’m sorry you can’t sit in a room and read a script someone else wrote with an English accent and call it a day. It’s a gig job. You shouldn’t be able to live off of it solely, I imagine most voice actors have figured that out and supplement that income with other jobs. I’ve seen people make some comparisons to Hollywood actors and voice actors as if that proves something. Yea, those people are all grossly overpaid and should make significantly less money too, because they provide next to nothing of real material Value to anyones lives.

sorry. This may have hit a nerve.

 

[supernova8]

So I'm kinda split on this.

On the one hand, if we take her word for it in terms of the fact that they made her an offer and she said "no that's too low" (completely ignoring actual amounts for now) and turned them down, then Platinum lied when they previously said Hellena Taylor wouldn't be reprising her VA role due to "scheduling issues".

On the other hand, unless we know: (1) what she got paid before for her other Bayonetta work and (2) what amount she would have actually settled for, it's hard to make a judgement call either way.

Obviously companies will use vague reasons like "scheduling issues" to diplomatically say "this person will not be coming back... meet the new person" but if it's a lie then it's a lie. Wouldn't make it excusable just because everyone else does it.

Full disclosure: I give zero shits about the Bayonetta series (never played it, have no interest in doing so) so I like to think I could take a relatively neutral line on this.

Also I just listened to a comparison video of Taylor and the new voice (Hale) and yeah I agree that her voice is way better than Hale's. That said, I'm pretty sure there are loads of British female voice actors who can do that stereotypical "sassy, almost villain-like, posh" voice. Their choice to go with Hale is a bit bizarre from what I've listened to, especially if they are paying her more (in which case why get rid of Taylor in the first place? is there more to the story than just money?).

Hell, even I know a few super posh older British women who would be glad to do that work for 4 grand.

Overall, surely VAs know that they (for obvious reasons) are inherently more disposable than physical actors. That's precisely why you see actors often successfully negotiate big pay bumps for sequels when the initial movie is successful (assuming they hadn't already signed up for multiple movies).

 

[lukilladog]

Meanwhile nintendo lawyers

 

[lmimmfn]

For those arguing on the voice actress owning the character, there's a good precedent set from the mortal kombat days( great read too BTW ) https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/10/the-legal-battle-over-who-really-created-mortal-kombat/

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So I'm kinda split on this.

On the one hand, if we take her word for it in terms of the fact that they made her an offer and she said "no that's too low" (completely ignoring actual amounts for now) and turned them down, then Platinum lied when they previously said Hellena Taylor wouldn't be reprising her VA role due to "scheduling issues".

On the other hand, unless we know: (1) what she got paid before for her other Bayonetta work and (2) what amount she would have actually settled for, it's hard to make a judgement call either way.

Obviously companies will use vague reasons like "scheduling issues" to diplomatically say "this person will not be coming back... meet the new person" but if it's a lie then it's a lie. Wouldn't make it excusable just because everyone else does it.

Full disclosure: I give zero shits about the Bayonetta series (never played it, have no interest in doing so) so I like to think I could take a relatively neutral line on this.

Also I just listened to a comparison video of Taylor and the new voice (Hale) and yeah I agree that her voice is way better than Hale's. That said, I'm pretty sure there are loads of British female voice actors who can do that stereotypical "sassy, almost villain-like, posh" voice. Their choice to go with Hale is a bit bizarre from what I've listened to, especially if they are paying her more (in which case why get rid of Taylor in the first place? is there more to the story than just money?).

Hell, even I know a few super posh older British women who would be glad to do that work for 4 grand.

Overall, surely VAs know that they (for obvious reasons) are inherently more disposable than physical actors. That's precisely why you see actors often successfully negotiate big pay bumps for sequels when the initial movie is successful (assuming they hadn't already signed up for multiple movies).

I think she probably got paid similarly or somewhat less for the other games.

She convinced herself that this is a 450 million dollar franchise and that she wants more out of it after not working for 8 years and has probably had a rough go of it in those 8 years.

I think they said overlapping considerations, which doesn't necessarily mean scheduling, but that is PR talk for the money didn't fit.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

It’s called “know your worth”. She knows her worth

Check her IMDB....her last "acting gig" was in 2014! Same year Bayonetta 2 came out. She isn't worth something like Troy Baker who is every year in a few games...even gamers know who he is. Im pretty sure nobody playing Bayonetta said "damn I'm so glad Hellena Taylor is voicing her". She hasn't done anything in 9 years, she is not someone fans think about. Also looking at her IMDB she has been in the gaming industry only 7 years, that's not some insane pedigree that she gets her worth.

I don't even like Troy Baker, he is overused but he can go in the meeting and say....I want $50K. Because he carved out a name for himself. Even the biggest fans of Bayo probably didn't know OR CARE who the VA is.

Hellena Taylor | Actress, Additional Crew

Known for: Bayonetta, Bayonetta 2, The Sweetest Thing

www.imdb.com

 

[Rykan]

My point is that not all actors/ roles are beholden to time sheets.

Despite her not being in as many roles as Troy she should be BEYOND a time sheet after portraying Bayonetta for a span of a decade. She MADE Bayonetta as famous and popular as she is.

It's called professional integrity and respect. She was offered neither.

she wasn't on a time sheet. She was offered 4k as a flat rate.

She didn't "Make" Bayonetta as famous and popular as she is. What does that even mean in the first place? This is a niche action game with fairly low sales. She's mostly recognizable due to her design and the game she stars in. The voice is a part of it, but hardly the sole reason.

This just seems like an attempt to portray Bayonetta as this mega popular and widely recognizable character. It really isn't.

Going down like what?



Thinking this is going to make any kind of real difference is hilariously dumb. If anything it brought the game more exposure.

The number of gamers sitting out for Helena will be in the dozens. Hundreds at best.

Game is literally out of stock on Amazon right now, Lol. I think this whole incident certainly help put the game back on the radar.

 

[Jsisto]

I thought it was really funny when she talks about how “Bayonetta always does what’s right”, and then goes on to recite a bible verse. We are talking about a character that literally summons demons from hell and uses torture devices to murder and dismember her enemies in the most violent and painful methods possible. Does she even know anything about “her character“ Bayonetta other than her voice lines?

 

[daclynk]

It's not.

well lets see.

 

[daclynk]

Going down like what?

Thinking this is going to make any kind of real difference is hilariously dumb. If anything it brought the game more exposure.

The number of gamers sitting out for Helena will be in the dozens. Hundreds at best.

i sure hope so.

Double post

 

[Astral Dog]

Ok not to any of this, to be honest i didn't see the videos, read articles with quotes i wasn't in the mood to watch them, she appears genuinely confused i hope everything gets better for everyone involved

 

[I Master l]

I still believe that to be case and will die on this hill, Helena Taylor will appear as a 'surprise' in Bayonetta 3, im so sure i would bet my Avatar for anything(if anyone cares ) or gift Gold.

If im wrong about this, i honestly apologize, but damn it now im more sure than ever

Whatever drug you are on, can I have some?

 

[Sgt.Asher]

$4000 dollars for about 16 hours of "work" and that's too little? Actors are self entitled cunts.

 

[Astral Dog]

Whatever drug you are on, can I have some?

Of course dude, i promise i will gift you Gold if im wrong.

i know it sounds crazy, but i sincerely believe that's what happening here, considering the theme of the game. i hope its just not wishful thinking

 

[I Master l]

Of course dude, i promise i will gift you Gold if im wrong.

i know it sounds crazy, but i sincerely believe that's what happening here, considering the theme of the game. i hope its just not wishful thinking

Go to sleep man you're delusional

 

[kiphalfton]

Crazy how Sony delayed God of War Ragnarok so Chris Judge could heal and do his performance capture for Kratos..... while PG and Nintendo can't fork over an acceptable amount of money to maintain their lead character actress...

SMH at comparing Bayonetta 3 to God of War. The latter probably has 10x the budget of the former.

 

[Karppuuna]

How many hours of work we are talking about, because most people doesn't make that kind of money even a month work in day job.

 

[TLZ]

This "controversy" is so fabricated, and i really mean it, exactly two weeks before release, Helena asks the fans to "boycott" Bayonetta 3,give the money to "charity", Jennifer Hale doesn't "deserve" to be called the new Bayonetta,starts giving a random $450 million profit number because Bayonetta is so succesful...

Let me be clear, anyone who has been following Bayonetta 3 and noticed the voice and hairstyle change started speculating the game deals with the multiverse, and multiple Bayonettas would appear, one of them would of course be voiced by Helena Taylor, she just won't be the main character, its the 'big twist' in the narrative. We already seen multiple Bayonettas in the multiverse and they all sound different on the latest trailer.

I still believe that to be case and will die on this hill, Helena Taylor will appear as a 'surprise' in Bayonetta 3, im so sure i would bet my Avatar for anything(if anyone cares ) or gift Gold.

If im wrong about this, i honestly apologize, but damn it now im more sure than ever

This isn't how you do PR stunts.

 

[Rykan]

Of course dude, i promise i will gift you Gold if im wrong.

i know it sounds crazy, but i sincerely believe that's what happening here, considering the theme of the game. i hope its just not wishful thinking

Zero chance of that happening. No company is going to damage their brand for some gotcha with voice actors.

 

[Team Andromeda]

What happened to top hat gaming man? I can't stand that guy, he looks like he needs to brush his teeth too
But he just always came across as swarmy/creepy too me.

He and his wife have been found out for using other people's stuff on their channel and trying to strike the person who's stuff they used off Youtube

 

[StreetsofBeige]

How many hours of work we are talking about, because most people doesn't make that kind of money even a month work in day job.

Skimming the thread 16 hours of work. Which at the Screen Actors rate of about $1,000 per 4 hour shift, the $4,000 payout works out fine at $250/hr

But Helenna Taylor wants a lot more and asking gamers to boycott the game. In the OP, it says she's complaining about a living wage and that the franchise has made $450M dollars. So what she basically wants is doing voice over work across a handful of days of work and being paid enough to probably cover an entire year since $250/hr isn't good enough.

Years back, people were fighting for $15/hr, yet for her $250/hr isn't high enough.

 

[KàIRóS]

LMAO I couldn't care less, this is a day 1 game for me, I love the combat and I rarely ever listen to game audio nowadays anyways, I'm either listening to music, podcasts or talking to friends while gaming.

This was really funny though, does she genuinely think gamers care about voice acting like that? that's mad delusional, she probably gave the game more sales with this idiocy

 

[ADiTAR]

This "controversy" is so fabricated, and i really mean it, exactly two weeks before release, Helena asks the fans to "boycott" Bayonetta 3,give the money to "charity", Jennifer Hale doesn't "deserve" to be called the new Bayonetta,starts giving a random $450 million profit number because Bayonetta is so succesful...

Let me be clear, anyone who has been following Bayonetta 3 and noticed the voice and hairstyle change started speculating the game deals with the multiverse, and multiple Bayonettas would appear, one of them would of course be voiced by Helena Taylor, she just won't be the main character, its the 'big twist' in the narrative. We already seen multiple Bayonettas in the multiverse and they all sound different on the latest trailer.

I still believe that to be case and will die on this hill, Helena Taylor will appear as a 'surprise' in Bayonetta 3, im so sure i would bet my Avatar for anything(if anyone cares ) or gift Gold.

If im wrong about this, i honestly apologize, but damn it now im more sure than ever

In today's marketing world, yes, a 100 times yes!

But this is Nintendo, and Nintendo doesn't do that kind of marketing or is actually capable of it.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

So apparently pre-orders on amazon were so high after this it was even temporarily "out of stock" and unable to be pre-ordered for a bit.

 

[supernova8]

So apparently pre-orders on amazon were so high after this it was even temporarily "out of stock" and unable to be pre-ordered for a bit.

I dunno for games (in general not just Bayonetta) I always wonder if the whole "out of stock" thing is just marketing bollocks (ie purposely producing fewer copies than you expect to sell to get the "omg sold out" headlines) since I mean it's not like a piece of hardware. It's literally copying data onto a cartridge and putting it in a jewel case.

 

[DemonGamerTTT]

I think the reason this person has so low amount of jobs under its name is because of attitudes like this...

It's all business, nothing else... They give you a proposal and you may or may not chose to refused it and asked for more, they refused your demands and found someone else, end of history... Asking for a boycott because you didn't get the gig is ridiculous and insulting for the fans... This person is literally weaponizing the fanbase because of their own personal business.

Things like this has been happen for decades in the movie industry when actors ask for a raise then get denied and decide to not come back for a sequel... But never before we saw them asking for a boycott to in hopes to make a product were hundreds of people worked hard to fail.

Don't be puppets... don't bite into the cancel culture(here's rebranded as boycott)

 

[Barakov]

This is a non-issue for me. Seems like she wanted more money and Nintendo/Platinum were like "Nah." This is a big nothing burger.

Taylor is trying the "Oh Woe is me" victim mentality angle to try get sympathy points as well to try force Nintendo/Platinum to give her more money but it seems like it backfired spectacularly.

 

[LegendOfKage]

So apparently pre-orders on amazon were so high after this it was even temporarily "out of stock" and unable to be pre-ordered for a bit.

I think that's likely to be a case of people who didn't even know this game was coming out until the controversy.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

So apparently pre-orders on amazon were so high after this it was even temporarily "out of stock" and unable to be pre-ordered for a bit.

Already seeing excuses of "well its just low balling pre order numbers!"

Reality is, if people genuinely cared and were boycotting, the game would never have sold out at any point. Even if there is "low balled preorder numbers" across multiple countries.

 

[Filben]

I mean, for a few quips and sexy moans, I'd take $4,000.

Bayo isn't the most developed character in gaming.

Yeah, someone here said her voice is the reason why anyone would remember the game... if that's true it's rather telling about the game's quality. Haven't played it but I know it for black hair, ass and glasses. And it's probably a fun hack and slash action game. What I haven't heard however in all those years is how brilliant the story, character development and acting is. Maybe that's what's going on on dedicated discussion boards, but definitely not a concern of major outlets or in the general sentiment of online and news feeds.

As an an counter example I'd name the Metal Gear Solid series which I haven't played (apart from MGS for PSX to a point) where many actors has been praised but it's also known for so much more.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Yeah, someone here said her voice is the reason why anyone would remember the game... if that's true it's rather telling about the game's quality. Haven't played it but I know it for black hair, ass and glasses. And it's probably a fun hack and slash action game. What I haven't heard however in all those years is how brilliant the story, character development and acting is. Maybe that's what's going on on dedicated discussion boards, but definitely not a concern of major outlets or in the general sentiment of online and news feeds.

As an an counter example I'd name the Metal Gear Solid series which I haven't played (apart from MGS for PSX to a point) where many actors has been praised but it's also known for so much more.

Character design/gameplay is what people remember the game for. Not the voice acting.

 

[crackajack]

Not getting this job might have hurt her, but voicing her disappointment in this way will make sure no one is going to sign her for something new in the future, which seems to happen anyway not regularly at all. Publicly demanding more money is okay, or even trying to gather support much earlier, but asking people to boycott it on your behalf is insane, right before it gets released. She did not get the job, she simply should move on. It might not be ridiculous NBA, FIFA, Hollywood A-lister money but 4k for that amount of work is still more than the average person's salary who she asked to fight for her.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I'm convinced a lot of you just don't like this game series or something, because I have to think most gamers would be livid to find out that a video game character they really liked was going to have a different voice because the developer didn't want to pay any more than 4000 dollars.

She's not a favorite character of mine, and I didn't play much of the second game at all, but I can still consider other people who are fans. Are you all really suggesting that in a different game that you liked much more, with a character who is a personal favorite of yours, you wouldn't be bothered by a publisher refusing to pay more than 4000 dollars to get the "real" voice actor back? We're always talking about how cheep and greedy game publishers can be, and how they don't care enough about their customers. How does this not fit into that problem?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Character design/gameplay is what people remember the game for. Not the voice acting.

The voice is part of the character design, that's why they use skilled performers to deliver the lines, not just whoever happens to be around for half an hour on Friday afternoon before everyone goes home early.

 

[mcjmetroid]

A lot of people blaming Nintendo but they're just punlishing it right?

Wouldn't platinum be responsible for paying the voice actors?