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Help me upgrade my PC for gaming

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DJ_Tet

Banned
Hey guys,

I've got a pretty decent PC for playing emus, but now there are a few other PC games I'd like to try. I'd really like to sample some of Bioware's games, and I just ran into my first game that flat out won't run on my PC (Lego Star Wars). I'm not a keyboard/mouse guy, I don't really play FPS's, so they aren't that important. I understand they are the benchmark however.


Here is what my PC is currently. I don't have tons of cash, at most I'd be able to throw in a nice video card (which I'm sure is a big bottleneck on my PC). I'd like to hear all recommendations though on the pieces of my PC and where it is inadequate.

Processor: Pentium 4 1.7 gHz
RAM: 512 MB
Video Card: GeForce2 GTS
Sound Card: Integrated


What would be a reasonable sound card and video card to throw in, and what would I be looking at to upgrade? Thanks for everyone's input.
 
Well my budget would be the cheapest video card that would provide me the level of games perhaps not at the highest end (Half Life 2?) but something more affordable that would also last a long time.

Like I said, I don't play PC games other than emu's currently, but I'd like to play GTA San Andreas and some of the new Star Wars games.

I'm not really up-to-date on videocards, so I figured I'd ask for some help :)

Everything on my PC came with it when I bought it nearly 3 years ago (I think?).



edit: also, if there are new cards coming soon, I can wait for a price drop if that will get me more bang for my buck.
 
What are people's thoughts on the GeForce 6600 series? It seems to be a very affordable $130 or so on newegg. What about some recommendations on a soundcard?
 
I am perfectly happy with my 6600 non GT right now, it plays Half Life 2 with all details and 1024x768 at a good framerate. Everything above that gives you better AA and higher resolutions but no better looking games.

If you want to be more future proof, you should wait for the next gen of graphics cards.
 
DJ_Tet said:
What are people's thoughts on the GeForce 6600 series? It seems to be a very affordable $130 or so on newegg. What about some recommendations on a soundcard?
Click to expand...

6600's are pretty good, you would be able to play HL2 around 30-40 fps with medium detail, even higher if you ran it in DX8 mode.

For the soundcard, i wouldnt bother..... that is unless the current one has too much hiss.
 
i probalby wouldnt bother upgrading the sound card, as it doesnt give too much benefit over an onboard one (unless you are experiencing issues)

6600 is a good recommendation, also a new cpu might be in order.. how fast can your motherboard support?
 
Cool deal about the soundcard. It's fine for what I have, I guess I could buy new speakers.

Here's some research I've done on the 6600GT and it seems like a 6800GT might be a better long term solution. Has anyone seen this hack?

The real advantage the GeForce 6800 enjoys over the GeForce 6600 GT however is in its memory subsystem.The GeForce 6800 features a 256-bit memory interface, with four 64-bit memory controllers paired to either 128MB or 256MB of DDR memory running at 350MHz (700MHz effective). This gives the GeForce 6800 up to 22.4GB/sec of peak memory bandwidth, 6.4GB/sec more than GeForce 6600 GT. As a result, the GeForce 6800 really shines against the GeForce 6600 GT at high screen resolutions with anti-aliasing turned on. You saw this a few weeks ago in our EVGA review with 4xAA/8xAF. In multiple cases at resolutions of 1024x768 (and up) the GeForce 6800 card was running 20% faster or more.

But what if you could turn the 12-pipeline GeForce 6800 into an even more powerful 16-pipeline card without spending a dime? That’s exactly what many of you asked us to do a few weeks ago with EVGA’s e-GeForce 6800, so guess what? We did!
Click to expand...

Here is the link


As far as my motherboard, I'm not sure how to tell what kind it is without opening my PC. I'll look for a program that can tell me. I know the PC is a Dell OptiPlex 400 if that helps. I'm sure the RAM could be upgraded too, but I'm hoping to save that as the graphics card is obviously the first bottleneck. I also know a great deal more about RAM than I do about graphics cards, so I appreciate everyone's help.
 
6800 isn't in the same price bracket as 6600. Of course its a better card, but it depends on your budget.
 
True, but it seems that there is around $50 difference between the two. I suppose around $200 would be the sweet spot, or less for the same card.

Where are the Radeon fanboys? Is that the alternative to the GeForce line?




edit---what the question is, I guess, do people think the 6800 line is significantly better than the 6600 line to justify the price?
 
depends on how much you want to spend on your upgrade... if you're gonna jump in the 6800 price bracket, might as well take a look at the x800xl too (i currently have a 6800gt but for PCI-E). but getting a vid card over 200$ really demands you get a good processor to back it up as well...
 
IIRC some Dell models use custom Intel boards - occasionally there are hardware upgrade conflicts. Before you commit to a new video card or CPU I'd try to get in contact with their support personnel, or at least lurk for a day or two on the support forums and confirm that it'll all come together smoothly.
 
I'll do that.

My Motherboard is a Dell Optiplex GX400, I'm looking up on it now.

It seems after further research a 6600 GT might be perfect for my needs, my max resolution is 1600 x 1200, and I'm using 1280 x 768 right now.

I know the mobo supports 2 gig of RIMM RAM, I've got 512 (I guess RIMM).
 
Hey Mister DJ,

you aren't a hardcore nerd I mean PC gamer so get a 6600 and you are set. It's a perfect card for you a much better choice than Radeon 9800. One of the best nVidia budget cards in history (like Ti4200).

You won't be disappointed, everything (even D3 and HL2) looks and runs great (not @ 100 fps mind you, but solid 30-40 as Ryudo said).

Oh, and forget 6800! Not for your rig, too slow CPU, to little RAM etc. Total waste of money.
 
exactly...and you can even get a passive 6600, I love the lack of noise and have no heat problems with mine.

still you might need a new CPU (lower end Athlon 64) or something you could at least use your old RAM with
 
Borys said:
Hey Mister DJ,

you aren't a hardcore nerd I mean PC gamer so get a 6600 and you are set. It's a perfect card for you a much better choice than Radeon 9800. One of the best nVidia budget cards in history (like Ti4200).

You won't be disappointed, everything (even D3 and HL2) looks and runs great (not @ 100 fps mind you, but solid 30-40 as Ryudo said).

Oh, and forget 6800! Not for your rig, too slow CPU, to little RAM etc. Total waste of money.
Click to expand...


Thanks Borys. The Deer Hunter is one of the greats. It's on my list of Top 25 or so movies.

And my wallet really likes this news. Seems like a cheap time to pick up a decent card. 6600 it is :)
 
DJ_Tet said:
Thanks Borys. The Deer Hunter is one of the greats. It's on my list of Top 25 or so movies.

And my wallet really likes this news. Seems like a cheap time to pick up a decent card. 6600 it is :)
Click to expand...

Yeah I know. IMO the only other movie that comes close to Deer Hunter's greatness is Scarface.

De Niro, Pacino, Walken - best damn actors ever.
 
It's a P4 1.7 Ghz and you dolts are recommending 9800s and 6600s? Jesus tittiefucking Christ!

Get a new mobo and CPU before doing anything else dude. Seriously.
 
Shogmaster said:
It's a P4 1.7 Ghz and you dolts are recommending 9800s and 6600s? Jesus tittiefucking Christ!

Get a new mobo and CPU before doing anything else dude. Seriously.
Click to expand...


pace21000189reg2gi.jpg


DOh!
 
Shogmaster said:
It's a P4 1.7 Ghz and you dolts are recommending 9800s and 6600s? Jesus tittiefucking Christ!

Get a new mobo and CPU before doing anything else dude. Seriously.
Click to expand...

It will be the most cost effective thing for him to do. A new mobo and cpu is out of the question.
 
I'm telling ya, that 6600GT will be so starved for data from the CPU. And he'll need more RAM for certain games that call for more han 512MB, and then what? Buy more fucking RIMMs?!? NO PERSON IN MY JURISDICTION IS SPENDING NO GODDAMNED MONEY ON A FUCKING RAMBUS RIMMS IN TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING FIVE! NOSIREEBOB!!
 
(Ryudo) No it isn't, you can get the best videocard ever, and still not be able to play HL2 properly. (well, medium settings at 1024*768 should be possible, given he has 1GB or RAM and a 9800Pro/XT)



You can only upgrade so much until you need to buy a new rig. Like Shogmaster already said, try to get some money for a whole new system. If you're not planning on doing that, get a 9800Pro (look for the 128MB RAM and 256bit BUS one, chances are there is a 9800XT chip on it, which you unlock by just flashing the BIOS) -- Your mobo probably doesn't support AGP8x and certainly not PCI-E so a 6600 might be a bit too much. Also, try to get a cheap Sound Blaster Audigy.

That's probably the best thing you can do right now if upgrading. Although I really advice waiting a couple of months, get some cash and buy a new one altogether
 
Oh yeah, getting a 6800 is NOT a long-term solution. As your new computer will use PCI-E instead of AGP (new standard, which is faster)


The card you're buying now will not be compatible with your new motherboard in your new computer.

(this needs a post by itself ;))
 
If you're willing to spend $200, and your current system is fine for most things (sounds OK), how about looking at cheap new PCs that will give you what you need, and sell your current one?

Old but good PCs generally have a minimum price that is pretty good (for the seller), especially if you are selling to someone for general productivity use and not games.

I'd think you could get close with your budget

New, balanced PC ≈ Sell old PC + $200
 
Hooker said:
(Ryudo) No it isn't, you can get the best videocard ever, and still not be able to play HL2 properly. (well, medium settings at 1024*768 should be possible, given he has 1GB or RAM and a 9800Pro/XT)



You can only upgrade so much until you need to buy a new rig. Like Shogmaster already said, try to get some money for a whole new system. If you're not planning on doing that, get a 9800Pro (look for the 128MB RAM and 256bit BUS one, chances are there is a 9800XT chip on it, which you unlock by just flashing the BIOS) -- Your mobo probably doesn't support AGP8x and certainly not PCI-E so a 6600 might be a bit too much. Also, try to get a cheap Sound Blaster Audigy.

That's probably the best thing you can do right now if upgrading. Although I really advice waiting a couple of months, get some cash and buy a new one altogether
Click to expand...

It is the most cost effective thing for him to do. Ever thought maybe he doesnt want to shell out a few grand for a new machine just to play games he doesnt want to play ?

I am a techie by trade and i have a mate who was in his position. He had a P4 1.9 and i got him a raedon 9800 pro. He plays HL2 fine and doom 3 fine with medium settings, he plays far cry fine.... its no X800XT and A64 combo - but he didnt have to pay 3 grand for it either.

AGP4x support will be fine, the difference between 4-8 is nonexistant anyway.
 
i'd suggest a 9600 or 9800

getting an x800 or geforce 6xxx would be a waist since the sytem would bottleneck it anyway
 
My meager setup plays HL2 and Doom 3 just fine at 1024x768 w/ medium settings.

AMD 2100+ XP
1 GB PC2100
9800 Pro 128 mb

If all you want to do is play some HL2 and WoW, I'd go ahead and get a 6600 or a 9800 Pro. You'll do just fine. But if you want to future proof AT ALL, start saving for a Athlon 64 and a PCI-E motherboard.
 
Ryudo said:
It is the most cost effective thing for him to do. Ever thought maybe he doesnt want to shell out a few grand for a new machine just to play games he doesnt want to play ?

I am a techie by trade and i have a mate who was in his position. He had a P4 1.9 and i got him a raedon 9800 pro. He plays HL2 fine and doom 3 fine with medium settings, he plays far cry fine.... its no X800XT and A64 combo - but he didnt have to pay 3 grand for it either.

AGP4x support will be fine, the difference between 4-8 is nonexistant anyway.
Click to expand...


Basically, this post says it all. I know my current setup won't allow me to play games made two years from now. It would be nice to play a few current games and a lot I've missed over the years, but like I said, I don't really play FPS, so the framerate in Doom 3 or HL2 isn't that important to me.

Some games I would hopefully sample with this new card: Star Wars Battlefront, Lego Star Wars, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, stuff like that. My PC does all my browsing and office needs, so it would be impossible to dedicate $1000 or so totally rebuilding the PC.

As far as selling it, it is a decent idea but not practical. One of the main things I liked about this PC when I bought it was the full-size case. I'm a tinkerer, and a mini case that a new PC would come in from a store has no appeal to me. When the time comes, I will replace the mobo/processor in this PC and keep the case.

Thanks again for all the input, as long as the 6600 won't run like a slideshow on my system, sounds like it's the perfect card for me.
 
DJ_Tet said:
Basically, this post says it all. I know my current setup won't allow me to play games made two years from now. It would be nice to play a few current games and a lot I've missed over the years, but like I said, I don't really play FPS, so the framerate in Doom 3 or HL2 isn't that important to me.

Some games I would hopefully sample with this new card: Star Wars Battlefront, Lego Star Wars, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, stuff like that. My PC does all my browsing and office needs, so it would be impossible to dedicate $1000 or so totally rebuilding the PC.

As far as selling it, it is a decent idea but not practical. One of the main things I liked about this PC when I bought it was the full-size case. I'm a tinkerer, and a mini case that a new PC would come in from a store has no appeal to me. When the time comes, I will replace the mobo/processor in this PC and keep the case.

Thanks again for all the input, as long as the 6600 won't run like a slideshow on my system, sounds like it's the perfect card for me.
Click to expand...

Based on what you posted here, really, there is no need to go higher than Radeon 9600 Pro. Anything higher than that is waste of money because you have a 3 year CPU that is creating a massive bottleneck.

You can easily get 9600 Pro for about $100 or less. An AGP 6600GT (which you wouldn't get majority of the benefit of over 9600 because of the CPU) is still approaching $200.

Conclusion: Get a 9600 Pro or at the most, a 9600XT (even that's a waste IMO).




Edit: Sheeeeit~ Only $80 with shipping! (if you are outside of CA)
 
A decent upgrade strategy isn't to upgrade when new consoles are about to come out. Play those games on Xbox360 and upgrade your PC when PC games start outclassing console games again.
 
I second the vote for a 9600pro although NWN does seem to play more nicely with Nvidia cards; any higher is just going to be a waste of money (I'm still voteing for a Audigy 2 though since it will help out with his aging CPU).
 
akascream said:
A decent upgrade strategy isn't to upgrade when new consoles are about to come out. Play those games on Xbox360 and upgrade your PC when PC games start outclassing console games again.
Click to expand...

Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights on the 360, riiiiight.

Keep the consoles out of this, please.
 
Shogmaster said:
Based on what you posted here, really, there is no need to go higher than Radeon 9600 Pro. Anything higher than that is waste of money because you have a 3 year CPU that is creating a massive bottleneck.

You can easily get 9600 Pro for about $100 or less. An AGP 6600GT (which you wouldn't get majority of the benefit of over 9600 because of the CPU) is still approaching $200.

Conclusion: Get a 9600 Pro or at the most, a 9600XT (even that's a waste IMO).




Edit: Sheeeeit~ Only $80 with shipping! (if you are outside of CA)
Click to expand...


$80 sounds good :)

I'm not an nVidia or Radeon fanboy (if that wasn't obvious ;)), so I could definitely be swayed one way or the other. If my other bottlenecks are my processor and motherboard, which they seem to be, then obviously I would want the graphics card that would help my PC the most.



edit---mostly I'd like to play some RPGs that have come out in the last 4 or so years, and some action games. I really enjoyed KOTOR so that made me want to try some other bioware games, but NVN runs like a slide show literally on my rig.
 
I'd agree with recommending that 9600 for your situation, and you can't go wrong buying from the Egg. In that price/performance range I think you'll find it to be superior to the 5000 series offerings from nVidia.

If you want to dig into it or whatever Guru3d is a pretty good place, but I'd say uninstall your old drivers, remove the old card, drop in the new 9600 and away you go back to gaming.
 
Ryudo said:
I am a techie by trade and i have a mate who was in his position. He had a P4 1.9 and i got him a raedon 9800 pro. He plays HL2 fine and doom 3 fine with medium settings, he plays far cry fine.... its no X800XT and A64 combo - but he didnt have to pay 3 grand for it either.
Click to expand...

You don't need to spend 3 grand on a decent gaming PC. I just specced one up for myself based on this:

$800 gaming PC
 
If your only interested in a few PC games, your current system will run Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights just fine. If you are really big on GTA, you would be better off just buying it for whatever console you own if your on a tight budget.

That being said, if you want to put the money into it, the best version is the PC version ;) ... however your CPU is very underpowered, a new graphics card will make almost no difference. If this was 2 years ago, I would endorse the reccomendation for a 9600 card, as you would see a bit of a difference. But now the 9600 isn't even going to keep up with the current budget cards in a new game, so you will just be wasting your money.

You need a new mobo, cpu, ram, and video card. That's all there is to it, I'm afraid there is no going around it. It's not that if you upgrade your current system a bit (more ram, 9600, etc) that you won't see a performance gain.. just not enough for it to be considered "getting your monies worth". Hit up Newegg (or ebay!!) and get your hands on a good board, AMD proc, and a decent amount of RAM.

For example, you could get a Sempron 2800, Asus A7V8X-X mobo, 512MB DDR, and a 6600 AGP card for about $330 USD (Newegg). Your video card is practically topped out already, since AGP is a bit of a dead end.. but you have more room for CPU and a lot more room for more RAM. Sure, you could get a PCI Express board, 64-bit AMD, PCI Express video card, etc.. and have a much longer upgrade path for your hardware... but it will cost you several hundred dollars more. If your still chuggin' along on a P4 1.7G after all this time, I think a cheap Sempron system would serve you well for quite a few years.
 
I'm in the same situation, P4 1.3 ghz, 256 RIMM, seems like upgrading isn't really much of an option with only RIMM support and no DDR slots, I bought a 9800XT some time ago (yeah, I know, way over-powered, I plan on upgrading to a new rig that has a mobo w/8x agp support soon). I can play most current gen games pretty well though, HL2 medium detail at 1024x768 works great, DOOM 3 at medium detail@800x600 is a rock steady 30fps, but the XT really is a bit too much for my current rig, 256MB RIMM+1.3ghz=uber crappy gaming pc.
 
hmmm, dissenting opinions


Let's say that the time to upgrade PC's is in-between generations. That would put me three years away. I realize that the graphics card I buy today won't be what I have three years from now. However, I'd like to play emu's and games to my processor/mobo/RAM capability. Which card would I want? The 9600 Radeon?

Or is it a situation where my processor, mobo, RAM, and video card are all about equal bottlenecks?

I'd like to run UltraHLE better for instance on the emu's, my PC does fine at anything pre-32 bit generation. My current PC ran GTA III pretty well, and Vice City pretty well. I wasn't able to get NVN running well, but I've since learned my video card driver was probably very out of date. If I could toss $80 now and have a pretty decent gaming rig (better than what it is currently), that would hold very nicely until a major upgrade three years from now.

I'm content with what this PC does in terms of everything but gaming, and I'd like to make it be the best gaming PC it can be. Since it seems like upgrading the RAM would be a waste, I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading the processor, but I don't know how high my mobo supports yet.

Thanks again for this helpful thread GAF, there is a lot of good information here for people behind the curve.
 
DJ_Tet said:
hmmm, dissenting opinions


Let's say that the time to upgrade PC's is in-between generations. That would put me three years away. I realize that the graphics card I buy today won't be what I have three years from now. However, I'd like to play emu's and games to my processor/mobo/RAM capability. Which card would I want? The 9600 Radeon?

Or is it a situation where my processor, mobo, RAM, and video card are all about equal bottlenecks?

I'd like to run UltraHLE better for instance on the emu's, my PC does fine at anything pre-32 bit generation. My current PC ran GTA III pretty well, and Vice City pretty well. I wasn't able to get NVN running well, but I've since learned my video card driver was probably very out of date. If I could toss $80 now and have a pretty decent gaming rig (better than what it is currently), that would hold very nicely until a major upgrade three years from now.

I'm content with what this PC does in terms of everything but gaming, and I'd like to make it be the best gaming PC it can be. Since it seems like upgrading the RAM would be a waste, I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading the processor, but I don't know how high my mobo supports yet.

Thanks again for this helpful thread GAF, there is a lot of good information here for people behind the curve.
Click to expand...


Hmm no, upgrading your RAM isn't a "waste"... its just that your RDRAM will only work with your current system, so when you upgrade you wont be able to use it in another system (unlike DDR). But if your upgrading your CPU anyways, you’re in the same boat... your new P4 CPU is only going to work in your system. You’re going to have to find an older CPU for your board... but I would imagine if you flash your BIOS on your mobo first, to the newest one, it will take up to the maximum of that CPU's form.

You could squeeze a lot more performance out of your old machine with a CPU/RAM/Video card upgrade... but the problem is that RDRAM and old P4 CPU's are relatively expensive compared to new equipment. So the money you spend probably won't be appreciably less than a full CPU/Mobo/Ram/Video card package, which would end up being much faster than your old setup with some upgrades. Of course, there is still plenty of life to be had in your old hardware; just make sure to check the price FIRST, before you commit to anything. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the price of the upgrade makes it not really worth it.
 
Based on what you posted here, really, there is no need to go higher than Radeon 9600 Pro. Anything higher than that is waste of money because you have a 3 year CPU that is creating a massive bottleneck.
Click to expand...

ding ding ding...we have a winnAr.


I had a P4 2.0 (probably the same series as yours...Northwood A 400 FSB) and a 9800 Pro at one point. Huge bottleneck by the CPU. I mean I'd get 5500 on 3Dmark 03 like all 9800 Pro owners because that benchmark stresses the video card mostly. But when it came to actual games I'd get fps drops a lot because the CPU couldn't keep up. Then I upgraded my system aside from the 9800 Pro. It got silkly smooth.

I recommend something around a 9600 Pro in performance and a decent sound card. The sound card isn't to increase sound quality so much but to relieve that old CPU of yours.


Or is it a situation where my processor, mobo, RAM, and video card are all about equal bottlenecks?
Click to expand...

Is Geforce 2 GTS a weak version of Geforce 2? If so, your video card is by far the worst bottleneck. If it's a normal Geforce 2, you could get up to a Geforce 4 (but a 9600 Pro would be better since it's faster and costs less these days).
 
Slap a 9600 Pro or a 6600 (non-GT) in there. You'll be able to play anything from Bioware (I play KotOR 2 with less than what you would have) and HL2 just fine.

I wouldn't worry too much about upgrading anything else, save adding some RAM if you can swing it. Some games now have REALLY big footprints.
 
Thanks again guys. Looks like the Radeon crew has swung me. For $80 I can get something to allow me to play the games I really want to (looks like it just slides in for the minimum of Lego Star Wars too). High resolution and absurd frame rate just aren't that important to me to dump in $400 for something that would likely need to be rebuilt halfway through Longhorn anyway. This will allow me to get my gaming fix (I'm a console gamer first and always) on a budget that I didn't think was possible. In a way, my mobo/processor being so out of date made my decision for me, and with the new(er) graphics card connectors, I should be in a better place to upgrade in 3 or so years.

It's threads like these that remind me how helpful a place like GAF can be sometimes. It's a valuable resource that we shouldn't take for granted.
 
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