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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
That's what I mean. The game in absolutely *no* way needed a murky rework. He was fine. It was a complete waste of resources that's led to an utterly toxic quick match environment.
Reminds me of the alpha period where he was OP. God knows what they were thinking then when his attacks all did bonus structure damage...
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
He needed a rework after tracer and other heroes could fell his pufferfish instantly. He was also one of the least if not the least popular heroes in the game in draft. If you wanted to play Murky you went to QM.
With chromie breaking out onto maps outside of Tomb and Hammer becoming more popular overall, I'm not all that happy about the direction competitive is going in Europe already.
But that doesn't really make sense, because the pufferfish is now easier to kill than it was before. It still dies if tracer pours a round into it, and it can be spell destroyed as well now, it's the one thing about his kit that's weaker - you can no longer drop a puffer fish then obnoxiously body block it with the murky to guarantee it goes off.
And is there an issue with a hero having hard counters suddenly I wasn't aware of?
And is there an issue with a hero having hard counters suddenly I wasn't aware of?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The way pufferfish worked was a relic of the past. If it's too killable right now overall it should be buffed with nerfs otherwise compensating for it. Towers not reacting to it and being destroyed by number of ticks over health was just bad design. I still dislike that BHB are the same.
There's a difference between hard counters and being irrelevant, the latter shouldn't happen.
I played him last night and felt so dirty. He starts off weak, but Christ level 13 and 16 and then 20 are such obnoxious power spikes. Once he hits 13 it's very hard to beat him, and at 16 his damage is nuts. Still not sure whether I should be picking the stacking slow at 7 or the greater radius on the slime...
He wasn't irrelevant though! Sorry but you can't say that when he had a decent win rate in the normal game. The fact he wasn't popular isn't a problem, some heroes are like that. Similarly, not being scene at the pro level is a good thing for the game, not a weakness.
He was pretty irrelevant, win rate or no. Pufferfish was non-existent. March was useless. Octo was useless because of Pufferfish being bad, the prevalence of Cleanse, and how easily he died during the attack.
He won by shear attrition and (likely) being ignored. It happened to us on more than one occasion where the variety of heroes that countered him weren't the ones we were on in QM, and we couldn't leave the group due to role/hero, teammates often just abandoned him repeatedly and let him push right through a keep or two as the game wore on. And that's at a decent MMR. Any other specialist would do the same if treated similarly.
His condition now is a little terrifying, but I disagree about there never being a time when he was good and also not toxic. Before they gave every healer Cleanse but after they'd adjusted his new style a bit post Living the Dream he was no more annoying than any other quick delete hero like Greymane, Valeera, Nova, etc are now or have been in the past. The split push has always been there and is cancerous, to some degree, but for me that's no worse than a persistent Az or Gaz doing the same. It only works if no one bothers.
Edit: re: A Time to Krill and stacking...I've been using it and it feels like it stacks but I can't say for sure. Either way it's proven useful as one target may Vault away or speed boost out of what have you, but another becomes available in your Slime downtime and you can begin to slow them in the interim.
He won by shear attrition and (likely) being ignored. It happened to us on more than one occasion where the variety of heroes that countered him weren't the ones we were on in QM, and we couldn't leave the group due to role/hero, teammates often just abandoned him repeatedly and let him push right through a keep or two as the game wore on. And that's at a decent MMR. Any other specialist would do the same if treated similarly.
His condition now is a little terrifying, but I disagree about there never being a time when he was good and also not toxic. Before they gave every healer Cleanse but after they'd adjusted his new style a bit post Living the Dream he was no more annoying than any other quick delete hero like Greymane, Valeera, Nova, etc are now or have been in the past. The split push has always been there and is cancerous, to some degree, but for me that's no worse than a persistent Az or Gaz doing the same. It only works if no one bothers.
Edit: re: A Time to Krill and stacking...I've been using it and it feels like it stacks but I can't say for sure. Either way it's proven useful as one target may Vault away or speed boost out of what have you, but another becomes available in your Slime downtime and you can begin to slow them in the interim.
Sorry but there aren't THAT many heroes who blow up Pufferfish. Tracer, Tychus, Lucio, Zarya - thats about it for the ultra fast attackers. The main issue with octograb was the change they made so that killing Murky broke the stun, that's what ruined the ability.
And there is a difference between an azmo and a murky split pushing - you can kill Azmo. You can't kill Murky, so someone has to baby sit him. And unless that person is a very particular hero, Murky will eventually grind them down and kill them or push them off.
I have never, ever enjoyed a game against Murky, because what he wants to do is anthithical to a fun game for his opposition in a way no other hero can do. Because he's unkillable, has an invuln shield, and just wears you down.
EDIT: To try and keep it positive, what needs to change about the new murky to make him fair? It feels to me like he has too many talents that stack on top of each other, and once he hits late game the slime feels really oppressive in how often he can cast it and how much you are slowed by it.
And there is a difference between an azmo and a murky split pushing - you can kill Azmo. You can't kill Murky, so someone has to baby sit him. And unless that person is a very particular hero, Murky will eventually grind them down and kill them or push them off.
I have never, ever enjoyed a game against Murky, because what he wants to do is anthithical to a fun game for his opposition in a way no other hero can do. Because he's unkillable, has an invuln shield, and just wears you down.
EDIT: To try and keep it positive, what needs to change about the new murky to make him fair? It feels to me like he has too many talents that stack on top of each other, and once he hits late game the slime feels really oppressive in how often he can cast it and how much you are slowed by it.
I feel every hero should be viable in some way. I do agree they went a little overboard in the few games I've played since he's dropped.
But damn, Maleduct. When you hate something you HATE it. Like you'll stop at nothing to prove your point. I'm not bashing you, just something I've noticed over time.
But damn, Maleduct. When you hate something you HATE it. Like you'll stop at nothing to prove your point. I'm not bashing you, just something I've noticed over time.
Well to be fair its just Chromie and Murky, and unfortunately both are meta right now... ;-). I don't like Valera + Varian in quick match right now but only mentioned it once!
Plus, I'm British so a seething disdain for things keeps me going... ;-). Sorry for going on so much about it, I'll drop it now.
Plus, I'm British so a seething disdain for things keeps me going... ;-). Sorry for going on so much about it, I'll drop it now.
scoobs
Member
Fuck Chromie
Though I'm an admitted Murky abuser, I'd actually have liked to have seen a version of Murky with:
Egg Hunt
Egg Shell and/or Big Tuna Kahuna (Egg Shell in particular would've solved some of his pre-rework problems with getting instantly blown up before he could really do anything team fight wise)
March of the Murlocs buff
I also feel like there was probably a way they could take a talent at like Fish Tank and make it so that instead of making Murky have 75% armor, it gave the Pufferfish armor to prevent it from getting rekt by every auto attacker he came across. Would've made more sense to me. I think you're really underselling the list of people who could eradicate it (and similarly him, as whoever is good at one was good at the other as well). Tracer, Zarya, and Tychus yeah. Also Valla, Zul'jin, Raynor, Chen, Sylvanas, Samuro, Auriel, Tyrande, Kharazim, Illidan, Artanis etc etc. Basically anyone with an auto attack speed greater than once per second shut him down in a lane by just focusing the puffer. And then there's all the heroes who could instantly kill him himself.
My issue with that is that pre-rework any murky I encountered just self cast the pufferfish, which meant it wasn't possible to target the blasted thing. That seems to have changed now, but previously bubble + murky body blocking meant in a lane duelling scenario it was very hard to kill the fish.
I never really had any issue with it or noticed anyone else struggling TBH.
That's why I made that post a page or two back about being surprised that his winrate pre-rework was so high. I was happy to see Murky pop up on the other team in QM so long as the specialist we got wasn't Abathur.
What do you think about the changes I proposed? Or rather, if they hadn't gone full Rehgar and had just done a little bit instead of the whole thing and worked their way up. Cause that's basically what this is. They buffed him everywhere (except the Pufferfish) and now they are going to have to walk it back to where he's basically like he was. I think if we'd have just gotten the changes I listed Murky mains would've been happy and he wouldn't have been so oppressive.
One thing I will say...there's already no mirror Murky matches in QM. Pretty shocked at that given how strong he is. Still shocked there's no front page posts on reddit similar to yours in this thread about him, too.
Back in early alpha, Murky used to be a seiging specialist hero. His abilities all did extra damage to structures. It was utterly, utterly toxic because basically Murky became a suicide bomber who *would* take down your structures through chain deaths unless your entire team was hunting him and blockading him getting through to the structures. It was soooooooo bad, and yet it had defenders saying that was a valid strat to have in the game...
Also, person in the "Deus who made a mistake listening to their community" claiming that the artifact system for HotS should have stayed in, and that a developer has said removing it was a mistake. WTF?
He';s still got a really, really low participation rate since the patch - only 7.4% of matches on hotslogs. I find it utterly bizarre given how ridiculous his win rate is, but clearly most people don't know about it or don't like playing him even when he's horrific.
One game I had last night, the gul'dan kept telling me not to team fight and go split plush because that's what a good murky did and I couldn't team fight. Naturally, I had to go fight and take down 3 heroes at once as an avenging god of the sea.
The Lamonster
Member
God I love Muradin. I always "mained" the mountain king in Warcraft III too. Seems like some of his voice clips are recycled from that game. And it's funny because his abilities in both games are almost exactly the same.
Fuck Artifacts. I got in Alpha very early and quit when Artifacts dropped and almost didn't come back. Antithesis of what this game is about.
And OG Alpha Murky might be the single most toxic video game thing I've ever seen.
I do wonder if the lack of outcry and participation rate might allow him to survive longer than other heroes who were similarly powered. What's his participation rate in HL counting bans? I'm not at home and can't check for a bit.
And OG Alpha Murky might be the single most toxic video game thing I've ever seen.
I do wonder if the lack of outcry and participation rate might allow him to survive longer than other heroes who were similarly powered. What's his participation rate in HL counting bans? I'm not at home and can't check for a bit.
So wait, he's 7.9% participation or he's super high participation? You two are saying two different things.
There already is one.
Log into Steam, download Dota 2. The guys who made it made all the heroes free but you can support the mod by buying hats and pieces of armor and weapons and stuff that people make. They changed the graphics and they even added some of their own new heroes, but they couldn't name any of them properly so that Blizzard wouldn't shut down their private server.
/s
I also got triggered pretty bad when it came out. Properly built Stiches with artifacts was like fighting cho'gall with insane health regen, health pool, cc for days and damage.
My filter is master/diamond for both hl and qm, the only stats that show on phone are "popularity" and wr, not entirely sure what the popularity stat is, but murky is highest in it in qm and 6th in hl with the highest wr in both modes (well i mean contextually, in hl i mean out of the 6 most picked heroes, you still have your high viking and anub winrates)
Filtered for all on the current patch in QM he's 69.1%.
Filtered for all on the current patch in HL he's 12th at 39.4%.
Filtered for all on current patch in Unranked he's 3rd at 64.5%.
Honestly surprised all those numbers aren't higher. What numbers were you talking about, Maledict?
Seems like I remember Diablo being super strong with artifacts as well.
Runes. The player base revolted appropriately in response.
Tfw they have to blow ults to kill you and ur back in no time tho
I think i slept on a patch that buffed leap every lunara i see take it now
Does it really count for that with her particular ults, though? I mean those ults versus the havoc I'd wreak if they didn't use them on me seems like a good trade. By the time I'm back with travel and new 8 second death timer the fight is over.
scoobs
Member
Auto attacks for 2,500? Seems a bit high.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
because they nerfed mines
The "complete quest" button in try mode gives her 1000 stacks of SM, that's why it goes so silly...
It grants a 1000 or 10000 stacks iirc. Not a good indication of damage since they uncapped that talent now a couple of patches ago.
I Q in the middle of the wave, wait a sec, drop the puffer, and you should be able to q one more time before it explodes. That's early game of course. After a few mins in one Q should be enough to do it.
RIP the dream.
Yeah most Abathur's we have are dead weight. I felt I did okay the past few times I've tried him out. Either top soak or hero damage almost every time, but just loss after loss. I know there's a lot to him that I wasn't doing.
I was going to say Jake slipped and missed an upload, but there wasn't a THH this week. Dunk will be a guest on ITN tomorrow night with Kyle out. I can't wait to see Garrett stumble through this...
I was going to say Jake slipped and missed an upload, but there wasn't a THH this week. Dunk will be a guest on ITN tomorrow night with Kyle out. I can't wait to see Garrett stumble through this...
scoobs
Member
Garrett won't know what to do when he doesn't have Kyle to fawn over and basically repeat everything he says. I guess he can just do that with Dunktrain though, but i foresee it being super awkward which might be hilarious.
ITN is great overall through, I tune in every week. My favorite HOTS pod lately has been Core though. Their dumb HOTS trivia games they play at the end of most episodes are extremely entertaining. Also they all kind of suck ass at the game and it's interesting to hear the opinions of some lower rank guys.
ITN is great overall through, I tune in every week. My favorite HOTS pod lately has been Core though. Their dumb HOTS trivia games they play at the end of most episodes are extremely entertaining. Also they all kind of suck ass at the game and it's interesting to hear the opinions of some lower rank guys.
KevMan1815
Member
Sounds right up my alley.