• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hollywood Hit With Writers Strike After Talks With AMPTP Fail; Guild Slams Studios For “Gig Economy” Mentality

HoodWinked

Member
How are they not being paid when there is now chatgpt which further weakens their leverage.

Writers are going to use or are already using chatgpt to write their scripts. Execs are basically just removing the middleman.

Heck this will only force studios to accelerate moving into using ai scripts.
 

AmuroChan

Member
Succession is excellent. Better Call Saul ended great if you liked Breaking Bad. Reacher was a very well done action drama. What We Do In The Shadows is hilarious. Last Of Us was amazing. Black Bird was a massively underrated show. So there’s a few off the top of my head.

Thanks. Have seen all of those except Black Bird. I'm interested in new shows that came out this year.
 

eddie4

Genuinely Generous
What We Do In The Shadows is hilarious.
Fucked Up Lol GIF by What We Do in the Shadows

I love this damn show.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Did it go away?
Not entirely, but I think people forget just how much of a trainwreck the last strike was and how much trash was thrown on the screen to compensate.


Plus the writers are not asking for anything they don't already deserve. The studios need to quit exploiting them and open up the checkbook. Lord knows they can afford it.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
The writers are completely and totally screwed. The last strike was a disaster and if anything this one will be worse. What is stopping the execs from bringing in ScabGPT? I guess they won't as a gesture of goodwill but nothing is stopping them.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The writers are completely and totally screwed. The last strike was a disaster and if anything this one will be worse. What is stopping the execs from bringing in ScabGPT? I guess they won't as a gesture of goodwill but nothing is stopping them.

They won't do it because it wouldn't work. Some day you might be able to get a somewhat usable outline for a by the numbers sitcom, but we are not there yet and even when we are there you will still need human writers to look over the outline and fix all the inevitable mistakes. And that is for the usual predictable TV trash. We are light years away from an AI being do what a roomful of writers can do for networks like HBO Max or services like Apple+ who try to put out more varied dramatic content.


The studios can afford what the writers are asking for and they need the writers to come into work for them to continue paying themselves a shitload of money they don't deserve. The writers hold the leverage here.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
They won't do it because it wouldn't work. Some day you might be able to get a somewhat usable outline for a by the numbers sitcom, but we are not there yet and even when we are there you will still need human writers to look over the outline and fix all the inevitable mistakes. And that is for the usual predictable TV trash. We are light years away from an AI being do what a roomful of writers can do for networks like HBO Max or services like Apple+ who try to put out more varied dramatic content.


The studios can afford what the writers are asking for and they need the writers to come into work for them to continue paying themselves a shitload of money they don't deserve. The writers hold the leverage here.
yea i've heard that one before. The writers are gonna get steamrolled.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
I'm actually looking for a good show to watch. What are some recent shows with good writing that you would recommend?

The only thing I can wholeheartedly recommend is Lost in Space on Netflix. It's not new but All 3 seasons are great... Some episodes are stinkers but overall the whole story is awesome!
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
yea i've heard that one before. The writers are gonna get steamrolled.
I guess we'll see, but without them there are no shows.


Plus given the fact that the writers demands are completely reasonable and the studios can afford them it means they are not likely to lose public support. Especially in the current social climate. They also have the support of the acting community as well because they also know how important the writers are.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I listened to an interview with the lead writer of The Bear. He admitted that in between jobs he's broke. There's no reason a talented working creative in a business as stupidly rich as television and film should be getting paid so little and so infrequently. Writers, for some reason, are also very rarely granted residuals on the shows they create, and unlike other production and creative staff, it's rare for them to get the same week-to-week contracts, and hence no benefits or bonuses.

Hoping for the best outcomes for the Writers Guild. They've definitely been getting a raw deal for years.
That's the nature of media. It's not like writers or actors work FT getting a steady paycheque like most other jobs out there.

They chose a career that is feast or famine. Make it big in Hollywood and you make millions and can coast from contract to contract. Be bad at it and nobody will hire you.

If media jobs like writing are paid so low, it shows their work is easily replacable. I dont think media stars like Steven Spielberg or James Cameron or whomever writes GoT are getting paid cheap. You got to earn it.

Most tv shows and movies have bad scripts anyway. Most people will remember the actors or explosion filled action scene. Most people wont remember the words.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
I guess we'll see, but without them there are no shows.


Plus given the fact that the writers demands are completely reasonable and the studios can afford them it means they are not likely to lose public support. Especially in the current social climate. They also have the support of the acting community as well because they also know how important the writers are.
All true in the last writer strike, and they still got rolled. Not just that, the strike set into motion all these unintended consequences that they are now striking again to deal with. It's really tough to see that this strike will work out in their favor and set up a long-term sustainable system for them. The fact is, these writers are dealing with the greediest, slimiest swindlers in America, who will do anything to stiff anyone (not just writers) out of a fair pay. And those swindlers now have figured out all these tactics on how to manage if this drags on, because of the last one, and the writers ultimately have mouths to feed and bills to pay.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
Looks like the AI takeover started just in time
Possibly kidding but AI isn’t that advanced.
It can write a few paragraphs based on what prompt you give but it cannot read what it previously wrote to connect your series of prompts together.

It’s heavily flawed when it comes to writing anything of length.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
That's the nature of media. It's not like writers or actors work FT getting a steady paycheque like most other jobs out there.

They chose a career that is feast or famine. Make it big in Hollywood and you make millions and can coast from contract to contract. Be bad at it and nobody will hire you.

If media jobs like writing are paid so low, it shows their work is easily replacable. I dont think media stars like Steven Spielberg or James Cameron or whomever writes GoT are getting paid cheap. You got to earn it.

Most tv shows and movies have bad scripts anyway. Most people will remember the actors or explosion filled action scene. Most people wont remember the words.
You get what you pay for. If you pay your writers like trash then you are likely going to get trash. Maybe if studios actually paid their writers a livable wage they wouldn't have so many shows cancelled after a single season and lose millions in investments.


But the greedy fucks at the top won't see it that way. They will just wonder why the peasants are unhappy with their crumbs.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Who cares? The output of these writers has been so poor the past decade, I’m not sure if anyone is going to notice they aren’t working.
The trend for decades already shows people watching less TV. And most of the big money making movies are CGI dude bro comicbook movies with terrible scripts and acting, but awesome CGI. People have trended to social media for their news and fiction.

So it goes to show paying all these Hollywood people to sit in a studio doing stuff is losing out to everyday people doing tweets and tik tok videos knowing absolutely zero about being a media employee.

Probably the only industry on Earth where total nobodies with a cellphone cam can get more hits than professional employees taking down their TV shows and movies.
 
Last edited:

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The trend for decades already shows people watching less TV. And most of the big money making movies are CGI dude bro comicbook movies with terrible scripts and acting, but awesome CGI. People have trended to social media for their news and fiction.

So it goes to show paying all these Hollywood people to sit in a studio doing stuff is losing out to everyday people doing tweets and tik tok videos knowing absolutely zero about being a media employee.

Probably the only industry on Earth where total nobodies with a cellphone cam can get more hits than professional employees taking down their TV shows and movies.
Streamers and content creators use writers as well. Not all of them mind you, but enough to matter. Also you are ignoring that there are still serialized tv shows that still make networks millions so it far from a dead industry.


Studios and networks are the ones that want you to believe that the poor downtrodden networks are losing out to YouTube and TikTok while they take in millions in ad revenue and merchandising. It justifies their corrupt business model to maximize profits and the salaries at the top. Meanwhile the writers room for most of these shows are making no where near what their work is worth.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Streamers and content creators use writers as well. Not all of them mind you, but enough to matter. Also you are ignoring that there are still serialized tv shows that still make networks millions so it far from a dead industry.


Studios and networks are the ones that want you to believe that the poor downtrodden networks are losing out to YouTube and TikTok while they take in millions in ad revenue and merchandising. It justifies their corrupt business model to maximize profits and the salaries at the top. Meanwhile the writers room for most of these shows are making no where near what their work is worth.
If writers are making bad money, then just do what everyone else does. Go to your boss and HR and ask for a raise.

If youre worth it, they'll pay you and keep you. If you're not, they'll say no. I've done it twice in my career. I won once and lost once. How hard can it be to ask for money? I've done it twice.

As I said before, I bet the majority of people in modern day spend more time goofing around on social media than sitting on the couch watching TV like pre-internet. It makes no difference if some social media content has many people working the content. Because most dont. It's just everyday nobodies goofing around uploading content. And for internet productions that have more people working it, big deal. Its a handful of people at budget costs. Nowhere near a Hollywood production with 50-100 people working on it.

If professional writers cant beat Joe Six pack and Sally Shopper uploading goofy videos after dinner for laughs, they should very cautious asking for more money.
 
Last edited:

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
If writers are making bad money, then just do what everyone else does. Go to your boss and HR and ask for a raise.

If youre worth it, they'll pay you and keep you. If you're not, they'll say no. I've done it twice in my career. I won once and lost once. How hard can it be to ask for money? I've done it twice.

As I said before, I bet the majority of people in modern day spend more time goofing around on social media than sitting on the couch watching TV like pre-internet. It makes no difference if some social media content has many people working the content. Because most dont. It's just everyday nobodies goofing around uploading content. And for internet productions that have more people working it, big deal. Its a handful of people at budget costs. Nowhere near a Hollywood production with 50-100 people working on it.

If professional writers cant beat Joe Six pack and Sally Shopper uploading goofy videos after dinner for laughs, they should very cautious asking for more money.
You are conflating two completely different issues that don't belong in the same paragraph let alone the same argument. The kind of people who go to TikTok and YouTube for their entertainment are not the same people that watch the kinds of shows that these writers work on. So their habits and views are irrelevant. They don't affect the bottom line for these shows.


Also your statement of "if you're worth it you'll get it" is complete nonsense. The studios and networks have been notoriously cheap for YEARS and only really pay the biggest names the biggest money meanwhile everyone else gets crumbs and "exposure". And I'm not saying that that everyone deserves the biggest paydays, but they certainly deserve better than what they get now and how they are currently treated.


Its not about beating TikTok or whatever bizarre point you are trying to make. Its about being paid fairly and being treated fairly for the work that they do that earns these networks and executives Billions every year.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You are conflating two completely different issues that don't belong in the same paragraph let alone the same argument. The kind of people who go to TikTok and YouTube for their entertainment are not the same people that watch the kinds of shows that these writers work on. So their habits and views are irrelevant. They don't affect the bottom line for these shows.


Also your statement of "if you're worth it you'll get it" is complete nonsense. The studios and networks have been notoriously cheap for YEARS and only really pay the biggest names the biggest money meanwhile everyone else gets crumbs and "exposure". And I'm not saying that that everyone deserves the biggest paydays, but they certainly deserve better than what they get now and how they are currently treated.


Its not about beating TikTok or whatever bizarre point you are trying to make. Its about being paid fairly and being treated fairly for the work that they do that earns these networks and executives Billions every year.
End of the day, if you're good at your job and worth it, companies will pay you. As I said I got a pay boost. And work in an office doing finance. Which is as far away from Hollywood glamour you can get. My career is as star studded as a garbageman's. If you're good, you get paid.

Guess what? Did you know you can also get paid for leaving? Most people dont know that. But if you got a good pedigree with a good attitude, and want to change jobs you can ask HR/your boss for a termination pay to leave. Everyone agrees to a payout. It's like getting laid off, but the employee is the one who actually initiated the job loss. So money is out there. A worker just has to be good enough to earn it. My buddy negotiated an $80,000 pay off to leave.

You're telling me at every media company, only the big stars and execs get paid well, and every other job function gets paid bad? lol
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Except we are seeing that not be true in real time.

It's LITERALLY the point of the strike. Wtf are you talking about?
If they were good at their jobs, companies will offer good pay without needing strikes and last ditch negotiations.

Most people in the world get by fine with no strikes, no unions, and no lockouts. You just go to work, get offered a decent wage everyone can agree on and life goes on.

A lot of people make good money because the company doesn't want to lose them. And the best employees telling their boss they are quitting get counter offers of boosted pay to stay.

Money is out there. You just got to be good enough to earn it.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
If writers are making bad money, then just do what everyone else does. Go to your boss and HR and ask for a raise.

If youre worth it, they'll pay you and keep you. If you're not, they'll say no. I've done it twice in my career. I won once and lost once. How hard can it be to ask for money? I've done it twice.

As I said before, I bet the majority of people in modern day spend more time goofing around on social media than sitting on the couch watching TV like pre-internet. It makes no difference if some social media content has many people working the content. Because most dont. It's just everyday nobodies goofing around uploading content. And for internet productions that have more people working it, big deal. Its a handful of people at budget costs. Nowhere near a Hollywood production with 50-100 people working on it.

If professional writers cant beat Joe Six pack and Sally Shopper uploading goofy videos after dinner for laughs, they should very cautious asking for more money.

I know you're a business owner but you side with big business every time ... You seem like a good dude who is a good boss but most big business people aren't like you. They don't care about their employees, just their profit margin. And companies like Costco show you can have profit while taking care of the people you employ.

Also, I may be a lowly factory worker right now but I used to be a magazine editor for 6 years. And what little I DO remember from my time back then, writers don't have the kind of structure you have in your business.

The producers CAN afford to pay the writers better... They just refuse to. Because then it eats into their exorbitant salaries (David Zaslav makes over 200 million while they're cutting costs everywhere else at Warner Bros Discovery). The Japanese will cut executive salaries (even the CEOs and presidents) to help pull their companies up because they understand the company wouldn't have been successful without their workers.

Movie productions live and die at the box office off the backs of their writers... It only makes sense to make sure they're well compensated. What form that takes is up to those at the negotiating table.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I know you're a business owner but you side with big business every time ... You seem like a good dude who is a good boss but most big business people aren't like you. They don't care about their employees, just their profit margin. And companies like Costco show you can have profit while taking care of the people you employ.

Also, I may be a lowly factory worker right now but I used to be a magazine editor for 6 years. And what little I DO remember from my time back then, writers don't have the kind of structure you have in your business.

The producers CAN afford to pay the writers better... They just refuse to. Because then it eats into their exorbitant salaries (David Zaslav makes over 200 million while they're cutting costs everywhere else at Warner Bros Discovery). The Japanese will cut executive salaries (even the CEOs and presidents) to help pull their companies up because they understand the company wouldn't have been successful without their workers.

Movie productions live and die at the box office off the backs of their writers... It only makes sense to make sure they're well compensated. What form that takes is up to those at the negotiating table.
I dont own a business. Never have never will. Seems like too much risk and headaches. I just work at companies my entire career.

All them are Fortune 500 kinds of companies (some bigger than others), all profit oriented. One was private. The rest publicly traded where the entire office is hit over the head with making the monthly or quarterly number. So there's pressure, especially on the sales department which is always the one to drive revenue. My kind of role can help support it as we approve and analyze large deals, but were more about analysis, tracking costs and submissions.

As much as a bad rap big business gets, I have never seen draconian stereotypes like scroogey bosses, paying people shit or anything like that. People fired are typically bad performers, bad attitude or from restructurings (I got let go when two divisions merged and they gassed probably like 20 of us). People make good money as a whole (but not techie Google kinds of salaries which are not the norm). So I find it hard to believe media is an industry where everyone at the company gets paid bad except star performers and execs.

At the end of the day, if media companies pay everyone bad and the owners and stars hoard the money, all I can reiterate is that the value provided just isnt there and there's a ton of replacements on the wings. Thats probably why they offer low wages. I'm not saying that as a bad critique, it's just supply and demand. The nature of writers work doesn't seem to be FT steady work either like most people hired for jobs. Instead it seems unstable with whatever content the company needs at that time or season.

That doesn't mean pay has to be bad, just not needed or valued. Why does a plumber who has zero steady work able to charge $80 to show up and then another $80/hr to fix something? Anyone will pay this unless they are handy and can fix it themselves. I'm not. It's valuable work I need done. I'll pay no question asked.

On the other hand, I've never paid for spotify or NF sub plans except leaching off my bro's NF account for two years which I stopped. I dont care because I'll just listen to radio stations and watch sports on TV and read silly social media stuff and post of GAF. I cant remember the last time I bought a magazine I wanted read. The last one I think I bought was a Raptors Championship collectors magazine from 2019. I never even opened it. It's on my shelf as collectors item. I cant remember the last magazine before that. That's not a knock on you and your former job, but just the nature of things. That's why every store's magazine section is a fraction the size of what it was decades ago.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
What's the last good movie you watched and enjoyed?
I cant speak for pramod. And I'm off to bed as the Stars/Kraken game ended, but for me I'd say my most favourite movies I've seen lately are documentaries. Are they scripted and edited to fit a narrative? Sure. But it's not total fiction. Similar to modern day social media and random YT clips, I find that stuff more enjoyable than professionally produced TV and movies.

But I'd put a live hockey or basketball game or playoff football above all though. Baseball playoffs are oddly good too, though regular season is awful even with sped up games.

Great documentaries: Dawn Wall, Free Solo, Fyre, various NF shows about how they made movies and toys

The best movie I've seen lately is me rewatching Memento. I understood it more this time. Top Gun Maverick was good too.

Some junk I've seen lately: Shang Chi, Black Adam, one of the Hobbit movies (the one which ends with the Dragon going to attack the town)
 

Toons

Member
This is objectively not true. There are as many great series and movies around now as there have ever been. Not everything is infected by the Disney mind virus. It's just that major contributors these days are having far more high profile projects fail prey to godawful writing and political ideologies. There's still plenty of fantastic writing out there, though.

I fully support this strike, as without writers nothing gets made, good or bad. Anything that fucks the greedy Hollywood corporates is fine with me. Writers should get paid fairly for their overwhelmingly important contribution. Except the ones working at Disney.

You're gonna see a lot of normally anti Hollywood folk go full bootlicker for them over this strike. All about having a "good guy" and a "bad guy".

Blanket hating anything coming out isn't an excuse either, as this strike isn't going to make magically good writers show up. That just isn't how it works.

I'm hoping they can reach an amicable conclusion in the quickest fashion possible. Itd for the benefit of everyone that that happens and frankly, post covid these studios can't be picky. A lot of em ain't making a ton of money for the shareholders.

Edit: also the amount of folks bending over the AI is hilarious, considering the exact same people running Hollywood will be running those prompts and programs. Do you really think things will change when you add in machines that cannot disagree with an exec to the mix? Careful what you wish for folks.
 
Last edited:

Toons

Member
How much does he make? Is he blowing 250K in 6 months or struggling to make 40K last all year?

I mean, the guy could study chemical engineering and have a solid steady career if he wanted.

He shouldn't have to do that to make a living in a healthy and properly functioning society lol.

There hasn't been a good TV show since MASH ended in 83

.....Jesus what is the median age for this board again?
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
.....Jesus what is the median age for this board again?
You dont need to be old to appreciate Charles Winchester III standing up for an injured soldier who stutters, because he reminds him of his sister Honoria.
 
Last edited:

Toons

Member
You dont need to be old to appreciate Charles Winchester III standing up for an injured soldier who stutters, because he reminds him of his sister Honoria.

Saying mash is good wasn't the problem with that statement.

Saying nothing since has been good is.
 

YCoCg

Member
Who cares? The output of these writers has been so poor the past decade, I’m not sure if anyone is going to notice they aren’t working.
Try watching stuff outside of the things you hate instead of hate watching, it's actually great that way and you can enjoy things.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Oh God .... it was to be expected but still it's a terrifying prospect: Hollywood wants to start using AI to write movies and tv series... If you feed an AI program millions of hours of shit programming, that AI's not going to produce original masterpieces but only the most generic of plots we've seen millions of times written by a computer program that doesn't understand the human experience but can only mimic us.
Like at most current TV series on offer… so you are saying they have been at it for a while with AI ;)?
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Possibly kidding but AI isn’t that advanced.
It can write a few paragraphs based on what prompt you give but it cannot read what it previously wrote to connect your series of prompts together.

It’s heavily flawed when it comes to writing anything of length.
Definitely kidding
 

pramod

Banned
What's the last good movie you watched and enjoyed?
Hmm like with a truly well written intelligent script with great dialogue?

I had to think about it a bit. Probably Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Cant really think of anything else. Maybe i dont watch enough movies.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
Hmm like with a truly well written intelligent script with great dialogue?

I had to think about it a bit. Probably Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Cant really think of anything else. Maybe i dont watch enough movies.

That means Quentin Tarantino is on strike too. People who wrote movies you LIKE are part of the WGA as well.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
I don’t care … all shows are shit anyway these days and these pampered babies don’t need anymore entitlement. Let them cry.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
He shouldn't have to do that to make a living in a healthy and properly functioning society lol.
Shouldn't have to do what? Be responsible with his money? Without knowing the pile of money he started with, it's impossible to assess his statement.

But face it, writers are almost completely disposable and replaceable. And there is a line of folks ready to do the job. So they are never gonna get laid a lot of money because ultimately they are more like the set dressers, costumers, and audio guys than the REAL talent folks pay to see.

If a writer wants to make a fortune, then they need to write a script, find financing, hire talent, organize and manage the entire production of dozens if not hundreds or even thousands of people, handle the marketing and distribution, and then see their vision resonate with a fickle audience to the tune of a billion dollars.

Oh wait, the guys that can do that DO make lots of money! Imagine that?!?!?
 
Top Bottom